Personality

I suggest that she needs you to be firm. As for the dress, give her one chance to try it on and then put it back on the rack. Tell her to let you know when she's ready to try it on. Then don't have any further discussion.

As for the nails, I'd just not do it at that time. Tell her to tell you when she's ready for you to do it. Dirt in the toe nails won't hurt her.

Is it possible that you're focusing so much on preventing the family trait that you're creating it. Try ignoring the negative behavior and praise the behavior you want.

It sounds similar to a vicious cycle that my daughter and I were in for awhile. It was about 95% me. Yes, she's strong-willed, opinionated and stubborn, BUT I'm the mom. I have to learn how to handle her. Two words for you: POWER STRUGGLE! Haha... Calm down, let things go. I'm not trying to be condescending, I swear. I was wound up like a rubber band with my daughter - I was high-strung, so she was. I was literally stressing out my own kid and making her anxious about pretty much everything. It all came down to choices, distraction and letting her do things herself (or at least trying). Mainly, though, reminding myself, "Is it honestly THAT big of a deal - why do I care?" Six months ago, my scenario would have sounded like yours - this is what it sounds like now:

1. Bridal shop - Talk calmly, like it's no skin off your nose what she wants to do... "E, you have two choices: get undressed and try on the dress, or get out of the dressing room - whatever you want to do, babe; I'm good either way." If she doesn't choose, "E, I'm going to count to 3 and if you're not undressing or ready to get out of this dressing room, I'm going to walk out the door and leave you in here to decide what you want to do on your own, 1, 2..." Then, seriously, leave the dressing room. Who cares if she throws a conniption fit when you hang the dress back up? Natural consequences. Those brides in there will learn soon enough that kids throw fits!

2. Dirty toenails - "E, look at your toenails! You don't want me to clean them - how do you want to clean them? How about a bath - think you can soak and scrub them clean? Ooohhh, if you hurry, you will have time to play mermaid in the tub AND clean your toenails!" You gotta let some stuff go. You don't have to clean the dirt out from under her toenails - she can do it her darn self if she's going to be a booger about you doing it! A bath gets them pretty darn good, especially if you specifically tell her she needs to get them clean.

Let her do some things for herself. She's likely fiercely independent and isn't given enough opportunities to be that way. Take some deep breaths and stop getting into power struggles. Walk away and live with less than perfectly clean toenails. Good luck!

Ditto Marda P.
Be firm when you need to be, and let the other stuff go. Don't feed into the drama.
I mean, fighting with a five year old for 45 minutes over dirty toe nails, seriously? Give her a nail brush and show her how to use it (on yourself) while she's taking a bath. If her toenails are dirty, so what? I mean yeah, it's kind of gross but it's not the end of the world and it's nothing to fight about for 45 minutes. You need to learn how to pick your battles.

I read your post and thought, "Yep. Sounds pretty normal for a 5 year old." That doesn't mean it's ok and let her do whatever she wants. I just mean that her feelings and the way she can't decide and gets scared by something unknown is all very normal.

A couple of things to keep in mind. Is she hungry? Is she tired? When my kids start acting this way, I am amazed at the number of times their moods can change just by feeding them or allowing them some down time.

My 6 year old son can have times like these (the indecisiveness). It's tempting to keep trying to appease him. I mean, after all, he'll say things like, "I want milk." But then as soon as I try to give him the milk, he'll start screaming, "No, I want juice! Really, Mommy, I mean it this time. I really do want juice." And, of course, as soon as I try to give him juice, the screaming starts again.

I've learned that the best thing to do in those situations is very calmly walk away. He might scream and get upset for a few minutes, but as soon as he realizes I'm not going to budge, he begins to calm down. Then we can more easily figure out what to do.

In both of the situations you mentioned (and it's very easy to say this when you're not in the middle of it), the best thing to do might have been to just quit. Put the dress back on the rack and walk away from it. Put the nail clippers away and decide to try again tomorrow. As soon as you see the situation escalating, redirect. Do something different. There will be times when you do not have a choice (ie, it is time to go to school). But if you get into the habit of aborting whenever you can, it will make it much easier for her to accept the situation during those times that you simply have no choice.

t this point in her life, I wouldn't worry too much about her turning out like your MIL or SIL. I don't think the characteristics you describe are hereditary so much as environmental. They are learned behaviors. I bet your MIL learned it from her mom. Your daughter is going to learn from you and your husband. She is going to observe your behavior and imitate you much more than her grandmother or aunt.

Hang in there! My 6 year old can be exhausting, too, but he sure is lovable. I bet your daughter is pretty lovable, as well.

Disengage B....simple as that. Disengage from the drama and the indecisiveness. She's learning to make decisions. And she probably needs more exposure to making decisions. You need to break this cycle as your feeding into it.

Give her two choices..A & B. If neither work, then tell her that's fine.

Like the other great advice...there's a pattern here. Make sure she's not hungry, tired, thirsty, has to use the bathroom, be reasonable and fair then walk away if she is overwhelmed at the moment. Chances are the dress will still the be, or there will be another suitable one, and the dirt in her toes doesn't harm anyone. Just take a nightly bath and all will be better.

OK...there is way too much going on here. Your daughter is acting out, but you don't seem to be reprimanding her. She's calling all the shots and you seem to be appeasing her. Like Laurie A, I asked my son, majoring in psychology, senior year, to read and he too said the same. There seems to be a vicious cycle going on here. A pattern that she has established with you and you have not deterred. You may have to consult your pediatrician as well, as it is not clear if it is indeed a pattern of bad behavior, or something more....ADD, ADHD, or an anxiety disorder. The scenario you describe in the bridal shop alone is overwhelming and with no apparent reaspon for her to behave this way. The fact that you describe them as "episodes" should be your red flag that something is not right. Good luck.

She's not playing you. You don't seem to understand children.
Maybe she didn't know she'd have to take off her clothes to try on the dress, maybe she was uncomfortable with it. Maybe she was afraid of getting hurt when cleaning her toenails. Did you soak them in the tub?

There is a lot going on here. Perhaps it's time to change your views and attitudes about life in general let alone personality traits and your child. You're being h*** o* her. I understand how nerve wracking it can be and sometimes a person is at their wit's end, but you have to come to a peaceful, knowledgable solution.

Your cut and dry outlook will cause you some real trouble at some point because some day she'll be an adult and you'll be old. Do you want her to take this attitude with you when you may need her.

You're the mother. I'm not saying to let a child rule the household, I'm saying have understanding for your child or any child for that matter. Children are not minature adults. They are going through stages of life and growing in body, mind and spirit whether we're aware or not. Once something is damaged in a child it cannot be healed. Look from her eyes. Go to sleep with the thoughts of who is this child? what do I need to see about her behaviour? What do I need to do as a mother? etc.

Kindness begats kindness. Arm yourself with knowledge, real knowledge about children this age and become calm and act as a calm example no matter what. There are many reasons she could be acting this way. If she watches a lot of tv, ya gotta know it's a destroyer of children, they do not have the filters to be able to handle such. If she has confusion, drama around her she'll respond to it. Whatever a child is subjected to goes directly into them and must come out in some way. If it's a good thing, good things come out, if it's a unhealthy thing, unhealthy things come out. Children a plagued with too much noise and confusion and hype of all sorts, it's everywhere, they're given plastic toys and synthetic fabrics to wear, they're deludged constantly and then we wonder why they act the way they do. They just want to be healthy, happy children. They only know what you give them.

I know it's hard and I know it can be trying but do resolve to search for solid and true answers.

Give her lots of love, children need to feel your warmth, your hugs and kisses, they need you to be playful and happy with them, they need to know they're a intergal part of the family by participating happily. She's five most fives are pretty happy. When she's between 6 and 7 there will be a big change that will become more difficult - you need understanding and putting that understanding into practicallity.

The best of thoughts are sent your way.

Ok, I read this out loud to our daughter who is 22 (just graduated with a degree in psychology) and my husband .

My daughter says it sounds like your daughter has gotten into a pattern of behaviors with you. She likes that she has your attention and you are giving her choices, but she is afraid to make a wrong choice. She is used to the push and pull the two of you have. She is thriving on the attention. But then is angry with herself.

My husband says it reminds him of when he had to go shopping with his mom. He hated the having to make a choice part of shopping. ..

He is ADHD and being made to try on things and make choices was way too overwhelming.

He says it is too many steps, for just a big let down if he decided he did not like any of it.. Or his mom was not happy with the clothing.

He felt like his mother would be disappointed and that he would have to start all over. He says he knows that anxiety your daughter is feeling and it has nothing to do with you, it is all internal in her.

I wonder if talking with her about choices. That it is ok to just "try". It is ok, if we do not like something after we try and we do not like it, But it is fun when we try and we do like it.. That there is no right and wrong about these things.

Also is she a bit of a perfectionist? I used to model making mistakes, gosh knows I am so clumsy , i dropped and fumbled my way through lots of tasks all of the time, but I would admit it and handle these episodes, calmly or with humor.

Even if I made a bad choice that caused a loss of money, being late, having to admit to a lot of people, I did this to show our daughter, everyone makes mistakes, but if we will admit it and learn how to make it better, others will understand.

Is she in school yet? See what the teacher notices. Maybe speak with a child behaviorist or a therapist about these behaviors, They may have some suggestions.

I don't think you should diagnose it as "playing you." That seems a little harsh to label a 5 year old with, despite what her dad's family does.

She sounds somewhat fearful and anxious, actually.

I think that unless something really matters, you should drop it. Let her toenails be dirty. If she can't try on the wedding dress after two minutes, then take her out of the changing room, and she loses her opportunity to try on the dress.

If something really matters, occasionally it doesn't hurt to do a little bribery. "If you can sit still for 5 minutes and let mommy cut your toenails, I will give you an ice cream." Or whatever. Then if she can't sit still, let the nails go for now, but she doesn't get the ice cream.

The reason bribery is warranted in her situation is because it might force her to face her fears and learn that these situations are not as scary as she thinks, and then next time she will just be able to do it.

Overall, I think you are engaging with her in these situations too much. Drop it unless it really matters, and give her a time limit if it's something she really wants to do. Don't torture yourself over this stuff.

She is not playing you and this has nothing to do with your inlaws. If you are not an anxious person this would be very difficult to understand and relate to. She is anxious and becomes upset with herself because she can't get past her 5 yr old fears. She knows it is wrong but her fears and anxieties win and that is why she apologizes to you. I would ask her ped for a good recommendation for a child or family therapist to talk things through with her and give you suggestions to help her. At this age children are very receptive to therapy and she could overcome this very soon.

I ditto a lot of the mom's here. It sounds like your daughter is running the show, and that's the pattern she has become accustomed to. You are in charge as the adult, and she is a 5 year old who really has no say in the matter. You need to change the pattern of behavior and let her know she is not in charge. You can also have her checked by a doctor because there may be more going on here.

My 5 year old son can be difficult at times too. He has two chances for things now. I ask no more than two times if he wants something, and after that his choices are gone. The first time I just ask him. The second time I'll say something like "I am going to ask you what kind of sandwich you want to pack for lunch tomorrow. If you do not answer me, then you will get peanut butter and jelly. Do you understand?" So I make sure he understands what is going on and that his decision is gone after I ask again, plus I tell him what he will get. Choices and consequences. It works 95% of the time.

I have not read the other responses yet, but I wanted to jump in to say that it doesn't sound to me like she is playing you. It sounds to me like she might have a sensory issue. I think when kids get to that "out of body" state (and I have seen this sort of thing happen with lots of different kids), they aren't even capable of playing you. Their reaction then is something they can't really control and we, as adults, have to try to help them manage whatever is going on. Both of the examples you mention have to do with something touching your daughter. Does she have a lot of strong preferences about what she wears or how things feel? You might want to check out the Out of Sync Child (can't remember the author) to learn more.

It is also possible that she was just overwhelmed at the time. When my daughter gets overwhelmed (too many activities in one day, too many transitions, not enough high protein food) she can melt down over ridiculous things (she will insist, to the point of a screaming tantrum, that she can't wash her hands even though she is 4 1/2 and has been washing her hands for years). Its her, very irritating, way of letting me know that she is beyond capacity. Until I get some food in her and some quiet time, she will not be able to get it together. So all the time outs in the world won't help in that situation.

I think it is interesting that she apologizes to you later because I think it further suggests that she can't really control her response. She wants to do what you asked (and even what she wants - she probably did want to try on the dress), but she just couldn't do it right then. I would try to mirror her feelings back to her too and see if that helps. So, "you know I need to clean your nails, but you are worried that it will hurt". Her: "yes, yes, it will hurt!" Put down the cleaning tool. Talk to her some more and try to get her to come up with a solution that makes her feel better (maybe playing with the cleaning tool first or trying to do it herself to get desensitized). Mirroring kids feelings back to them seems to help them feel understood and more in control and also seems to work better than trying to reason with them (better than saying, "but it won't hurt - I promise.")

Its super hard. I can give this advice, but in the moment I don't always follow it myself. But we can try, right!

Good luck.

B.

I think that by attributing this to "playing you" you are assigning a motive that isn't there and are creating unnecessary drama. As the others have suggested, force yourself to have no vested interest in her choices and see how that goes.

This is not about her "playing you" nor is it about winning or losing a particular battle. You have a "highly sensitive and spirited" child. A couple books that might help you gain perspective include:

"Raising Your Spirited Child" by Mary Kurcinka
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7454114-raising-your-s...

"The Highly Sensitive Child"
http://www.hsperson.com/

It sounds like she may have an over sensitivity to things touching her skin. I don't have enough information here, but do you think her reluctance to try on the dress could have been because she was worried about how it would feel on her skin. Does she have certain clothes that she refuses to wear at home or complain about tags or her shoes and socks. The fact that she was so worried that cleaning her toenails would hurt also tells me that she may feel things very intensely. If this is true, then "The Out-of-Sync" Child is another good read.

It may also be true that she is just trying to exert some control over her life. The freedom to make choices. But she does not yet have a good decision making system in place. Instead of battling her in a certain situation, start giving her time to think through a situation on her own (tell her she can ask you questions or talk out loud if that helps her) without you trying to talk her into or out of that thing. Tell her you will set a timer (say 5-10 minutes depending on the situation) and that when the timer goes off her decision at that time will be final (if she can't make the decision in that time, then she forfeits the chance and your decision becomes final). Choose situations where the choice really is hers to make (you need to be okay with either choice or even with a possible 3rd choice...which is my son's favorite). Congratulate her when she makes a clear decision and sticks with it.

Also make sure you are modeling the decision making process. I often talk out loud to my son when I am weighing the pros and cons in a situation.

If things start to turn into a battle and decision making in an organized fashion won't work, then just make a final decision, let the drama happen, but do not feed into it. It is normal for even 5 year olds to have meltdowns. The more spirited a child the longer these might last.

You want to hear that you are not alone and you are not. But from reading your post, it sounds like you and your daughter would benefit from seeing a therapist together. This isn't going to get better on its own. And you get to decide if the next 13 years she lives at home are positive or miserable. You can make a difference for your daughter and for your own life. I second Dawn's response below, find a good therapist for the two of you.

B., she needs some professional help. Get her to a child psychologist. You could also use a play therapist - she would come to your home and watch her react to you when you try to do things like clean under her toenails. Play therapists are trained to help you figure out where to go to get help.

I would also recommend an OT who specializes in sensory integration problems. You might be amazed at what your daughter CANNOT do that the OT tries to evaluate her on.

I understand that you think that family disposition plays a part here. I don't know if her anxiety is inherited or not. Bottom line is that she needs help and it's your job to get it for her.

Dawn

I have a child just like your daughter and yes, I often think to myself he has a difficult personality. He is very smart (in the GATE program in school) and very sensitive and very emotional at times. He is also very strong willed and stubborn. Just to let you know things get better. He is 8 and in 3rd grade and he is so much more mature now than he was. Your daughter will get there too...just keep working with her.

Back to Basics Discipline By Janet Campbell Matson. You need to outlaw the fits. Period. Once she knows she will never get away with that no matter how traumatized she is by trying on a dress or not etc etc etc you can get to the meat of matters better. It sounds too simplistic if there are legitimate sensory things going on...and definitely be wary, but yeah, she does seem to be playing you from this. My third has the propensity to be very upset and traumatized over anything. She can go from zero to crying in less than a second, and she would LOVE to cause me to do her bidding at all times with it-or cause difficult scenarios like you describe, but it's not allowed. So whatever the new horrifying circumstance that has her ready to blow, FIRST is "Hey, no fits!" to get that stopped in it's tracks, then I can logically address the other things. But fleeing from stores etc because she's crying? Nope, not gonna happen. My other two were not so dramatic, but she IS FOR SURE and yet discipline has succeeded. Don't get me wrong, you can and should work through her very real fears and sense of drama-my daughter and I have a real bond and I "get her" and nurture her personality, but you can also control the fits and behaviors which can hold you hostage unchecked. It comes in really handy for real crying too! Today she was bouncing in a restaurant booth (just a little) and she bonked her nose on the table and it really hurt. I was able to sympathetically but firmly shush and hold and comfort her and she had the mega-red cry-face of all-time but suffered in silence because she's used to squelching the temper:)

Hi B.,
lots of good advice here. I just wanted to mention to take a closer look to foods... for example, when my son eats/drinks foods with high fructose corn syrup it's like so many hours later he's got withdrawal symptoms... nothing you do is right. you do what he wants and he complaints, don't do it, then he complaints more and goes on a 20 minute rant about everything that's wrong, etc. etc. it took me a long time to figure that out. That's why I wanted to mention about also taking a close look at the food/additives. Good luck! ~C.~

Sounds like my daughter. She has Sensory Processing Disorder/sensory issues.

You and your daughter would benefit from seeing a Childhood Specialist together to get help in learning how to deal with this issue--your daughter, so she can learn how to regulate herself, and you, so you get some expert help on your side so that you can help her.

My daughter started seeing a Childhood Specialist when she was 5 and still sees one today; she's now 12. The psychiatric community, I believe, doesn't see/bill for Autism-related issues (of which SPD is a part of) yet (because the new textbook hasn't been approved yet), but they will bill the session as an anxiety/OCD (Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder) session, which is what they do for my daughter.

From the very first time we took our daughter to see her Childhood Specialist, it helped not only her but saved our marriage. I encourage you to find someone.

You have some great answers here. I don't believe she is playing you either because if she were, she would be coming out of it with something. Perhaps she isn't good at making choices on her own yet, she second guesses it with fears. Perhaps it is like a lot have said a sensory problem. One thing is, you let it esculate to long. If she is going to be coming out of the dressing room screaming, she might as well come out screaming after the first chance to try it on instead of the 20th. With toe nail clipping. Play pedicure and get the finger nail polish out. If she wants polish, she needs to clip the nails. If she fights clipping the nails, no polish. I hate my feet being touched so if that is the case, she may not be good if you are holding on her foot. The trick is, give her a choice and let her live with the choice. Tell her to think over very carefully what she wants because it will be the choice she has to stick with. If she chooses to go in and try on the dress, then that is the choice and you point it out if she fights it (You chose this, let's hurry and try it on and be done with it") although I wonder if it has more to do with undressing in a strange place then actually trying on the dress. so reinforcing that no one will see her and walk in on her may help there. I hate dressing rooms too..lol

Anyway, we teach them to make choices by giving them two choices and they decide and live with that choice. It is one of the best gifts we can give our children, knowing how to make and stick to a good choice.

Yep, probably playing you, probably has nothing to do with the drama queen MIL, maybe alot to do with discipling her. I have been through similar and even my doctor told me that my son was good at manipulaiting (playing me). s As hard as I tried I would get so tired of the fights and give up or in,not a good thing I know, but if she is giving you that much trouble I am sure you understand where I am coming from. You might want to talk to her pediatrician to make sure nothing else is going on, probably not, but always good to get a professional opinion from someone you are comfortable with. Good Luck and stay strong, parenthood is trying to say the least!