First, I would like to thank all the moms who have responded to some of my very difficult questions. Even those I did not fully agree with, I appreciate the different perspective. I am new to this site and am grateful for all the different opinions and ideas!
My next question is probably the most difficult of all:
My husband's ex wife threw him out of the house 6 years ago and filed for divorce. She got a "stay away order" which is typical for family law cases. He is not violent, there is no history of domestic violence ( on his part) but yes on her part. She was the petitioner. She told him to to "go get another place to live, our marriage is over". So, without much of a fight about the house, he did move. He still maintained custody of his twin daughters. He picked them up from daycare every day-M-F from 3pm to 8pm and two overnights a week plus every weekend. ( this was before a formal custody order had been adjudicated).
Midway through the divorce she petitioned for, she changed her mind and wanted a second chance. By that time, he was ready to move on and turned her down. The divoce was final and they got 50/50 custody.
She has been telling his daughters who are very smart, and 6 years old that " daddy left us , he did not want to be with us anymore" This breaks his heart as he knows that this is not the case at all but a twisted version of the truth. He is torn about how to address this. I say he needs to wait until they are older AND get the assistance of acounsleor or unbiased third party. Any other recommendations? So far his response has been " Daddy and mommy got divorced from each other not you. We both still love you very much."
Dad nor I have ever nor do we ever say anything negative about the girls mom. Things have been escalating recently- my theory is because the holiday is approaching and dad has the whole week of Christmas per the custody order. Not sure if this is why, but it seems to make sense, why all of a sudden the girls have been coming to our house with lots of comments and questions and feeling very upset by some of the things "mommy' says. I stay out of the way. I basically am here to love the girls and my husband and my teenage son. When the girls need me, I am here to listen and all I do is listen. When the girls told daddy " mommy said you left us and did not want to be with us", he was very upset. I had him journal the incident in writing from his perspective and yes he has the divorce decree which lists her as the Petitioner. I met up with my husband a year into his divorce- which was at the tail end. I also wonder if Post partum depression had anything to do with this? She left him very soon after the girls were born? Then went kind of back and forth for the year. Her mom has a history of mental illness and was hospitalized for bipolar disorder. Does anyone know if this is herditary or do bipolar and postpartum have anything to do with eachother?
Oh, no he doesnt need to wait!! Are you nuts? They need honest truth from him and counseling now. To think you wait till they were older is insane, you dont want to damage them. It needs to be addressed ASAP. later on they can decide whats the truth and what isnt.
I have a friend going through something only semi-simliar but her ex tells the kids how bad of a mom she is. Mind you he only has them mayby 5-6 nights a month when he is supposed to do 10. And he cancels or just doesn't show half of the time too. But really, the kids will make up their own minds. I think if he starts getting in there and telling them opposite of what she is saying, it will only confuse them and make their little lives more difficult. So he just has to keep being a good dad.
How is he answering their questions? While he doesn't need to give them all the information, or talk bad about their mom, when asked about "him leaving", he should be able to say that mom and dad fought a lot and just couldn't be married anymore. We though it would be better for you girls if we lived separately, and mom asked me to leave. We are both happier this way.
oh, my, this is terrible, but he MUST not respond in kind, ie telling them the 'truth' about their mom. he MUST make sure that his response to his daughters is consistently loving and centers around how much he loves them, nevernevernever giving them details about the split. even when they're older, they don't need to know the nitty gritty uglies, the sordid stuff that should never have happened and should remain in the domain of the two who perpetrated them, no matter whose fault it was. it is not 'just being honest' to burden kids with this. all they need to know is that daddy loves them, has always loved them, will always love them. anything else just muddies the water.
i've watched my beloved nieces go through this. their parents, who both adore those girls beyond anything in this world, have ripped them to pieces and done irreparable damage with their 'honesty'.
please persuade your husband to be the bigger person here.
khairete
S.
I have worked with divorcing couples for several years so I can see the difference between children who are put in the middle and children who have parents who behave civilly if not in a friendly manner. If at all possible I think your husband's mantra should be something to the effect of: Dad and Mom agreed not to be married anymore but we both love you very, very much and always will. This way he is being honest and he isn't putting mom in a bad light. When the children are anywhere between 10 and 20 they will start to see things as they really are and they may even ask to see the court papers in which case they will see who commenced the divorce and if that results in any questions they can be handled truthfully and age appropriately. Also, your husband can address with the court that mom is making these comments to the girls and the Judge can stipulate that negative comments made by either party against the other and in front of the children is a cause for contempt. I don't know that that would actually deter mom but it works with some people. Good luck.
This is not only a tough one, but also unfortunately very common... a divorce is about the adults & the kids get dragged in.
Having worked therapeutically with children for many years, I would strongly suggest that your husband not get involved in the "mud slinging". I would suggest that he use redirecting phrases that reassure the girls that he loves them very much and looks forward to every minute with them. He can tell them that sometimes parents can't get along and say/do things that are hurtful and it is better if they don't live together anymore. Avoid telling them "the truth", but continue to reassure them that mommy and daddy hahd a very hard time using kind words and decided that it was better for everyone if they didn't live in the same house anymore.
His actions and continued support, love and involvement will be far more impacting than trying to refute a story. The good news is... they are telling him what mommy is saying, so the odds are pretty darn good they don't believe her. They are showing him love and affection and he is returning the affection.
Get a counselor involved if their willingness to interact with him changes or one starts to act-out. Otherwise, the kids don't need "the details" until they are much older, if ever.
For what it's worth, a very dear friend of mine recently had her divorce finalized. She found out that her husband had been having an affair that started the week after they got back from their honeymoon. She was devastated, especially when she learned that he had gone to "her house" to sleep after their little girl was born b/c it was closer to the hospital. Really- not kidding.
Will their daughter ever know this version of the story? I hope not. He's a crappy husband and a cheat, but he's a good dad. There is nothing wrong with editing when both parties said/did things that they regret.
Although he may need to wait until they are older to truly clear the air he should at least address the issue now. Family Court does not allow either parent to bad mouth each other or allow them to be used as pawns. He should talk to his ex and tell her that while he doesn't expect her to tell the girls (right now) that she asked him to move out, he does expect her to stop telling them that "he left and didn't want to be with them". Even if it were true, it should not be said to those girls.
He can tell his girls that "Mommy and daddy weren't able to stay together so I did move out but I did not LEAVE you girls. I love you both very much and I have always wanted to be with you. That will never change".
I haven't looked back but if you are the same one that has been posting about the mom who sends the girls to school in inappropriate clothes, makes both miss school when one has an appointment, and books appointments on your hubby's time, I would suggest that you file for full custody in allow her limited visitation (and site these issues...especially this one).
As a child of divorce who went through this stuff...eventually they will figure it out. It may take a while, but eventually kids figure out what is really going on. Until then...explain without ever being negative towards mom (or children feel like they have to pick sides or defend). You can respond to her allegations...but do it without defense or blame towards her. As long as you provide a constant source of positive vs. negative....they will soon see truth.
He just needs to make it clear to his daughters that he didint leave THEM.
The best way is for him to reassure them as soon as they return and ask questions. He can as them what they think, do they believe their mom. I think he does need to talk to them, soon. He doesn't need to go into the blame game, but a simple sit down and the truth about loving them and wanting them can't hurt. He doesn't even need to sit them down if he's uncomfortable. A daily/hourly "I love you" and "I'm so glad you guy are here." can help give the girls confidence that he does love them and does want them around.
Good luck.
The mother of the twins should be taken out and stoned!! That is NOT what a mother does!!!
Your husband and you both must maintain the HIGH ROAD here. If the girls ASK NOW why their mommy and daddy are not together anymore - the truth must be told as simply as possible - mommy decided she didn't want to be married to daddy anymore and told him to leave. it is true that at one point mommy decided she wanted to get back together but daddy had already moved on.
Remember the KISS method - keep it simple silly.
Do NOT get into a war with her over this. The kids will end up seeing her for who she really is as they grow up. Stick to the facts and the truth. DO NOT elaborate. DO NOT throw in gossip or any other reason. As you nor your husband KNOW WHY she did it - or best - what she was THINKING when she threw him out or what she was thinking when she wanted a 2nd chance. Not your place nor his. He should stick to HIS facts and truth. DO NOT THROW stones or ridicule their mother. No matter how much you really want to!!!
He needs to wait until they are older and then show the girls the divorce decree...it will list who filed for the divorce and will, in turn, prove to them that SHE was the one who did.
she sounds so childish. I can't imagine trying to manipulate your children to take sides in an adult issue. Children should be protected from such nonsense. I would encourage dad to reassure the children that he loves them, did not abandon them and tell them they are too young to understand.
The sad thing is that she thinks she's getting them to side with her but she's actually building a foundation to make them dislike her later. If she's manipulative in one area she'll likely continue the pattern. Just be patient and don't bad mouth the mother in front of the kids(as much as it would feel SO GOOD to do). As they get older they will see the truth.
my husband is going through that too (not the divorce but the lies). his ex told his two daughter that "daddy left us and he cheated on me and S. is the reason we're getting divorced" he did leave her SHE cheated on him and i had nothing to do with their divorce.
here's how my husband approached the matter, he didn't say A WORD to the girls about what happened he let THEM ask the questions. When they qued that they needed an answer from him by saying "you left us! you cheated on mom!" he pulled them aside and explained to them the answer they very much deserved as to WHY.
his ex wife STILL blames a lot on me and him, we say nothing to her about it, but explain to them when they show they need it answered from our side.
in short eventually through actions and they way your husband reacts to his ex, they WILL see later in life and determine themselves who did right for them and who didn't and eventually the one always complaining about the other, the kids will eventually avoid.
YIKES! She sounds really unstable - good thing those girls have a good dad in their lives. Sounds like they have a good step-mom too.
He needs to reassure them of his love and his availability to them all the time. He should talk to a counselor about the best way to deal with this - maybe bring them to the counselor together a couple of times. But I would think when something comes up where the girls mention something like this he can jsut say, "honey I love you dearly and never wanted to leave you. I would never have left you if it wasn't something mommy wanted me to do. But - no matter what - I will always be here for you. There is nothing I wouldn't do for you. If you were sick and I needed to sit up all night long to make sure you were OK I'd do it without question. If you need help with your homework I will help you. There is nothing you could ever do that would take away my love from you and even if you think you did something that was wrong I would never stop loving you."
Kids need to be told things about 1,000 times. You have to tell them, retell them and then tell them again after you remind them. Children spell love as T-I-M-E - so the more time he spends with them the more secure they will feel with his love. No matter what mom says they'll feel the difference between action and talk.
Once the kids are older they will know the truth based on what they've experienced. Kids are smarter than we give the credit for and they do figure it all out eventually.
I think that you should continue to not say bad things about their mom. Soon they will figure out why Mom and Dad aren't together anymore. He can defend himself without slamming "Mom". It's too bad that she is not mature enough to put her childrens needs before her own desire to look good. In the long run it is only going to come back and bit her in the @ss! Good Luck - I am sure it is very difficult to be in this situation right now, but in time, I think that things will settle down, and the girls will probably want to come and live with you full time!
I think therapy is good. He can't stop her from what she say's unfortunately. I think as they get older the see how he treats them and they will be asking questions. I think he needs to keep reassuring them that he loves them.
Sounds like the ex is a bit unstable. I really hope his kids get through this with a s little scaring as possible!
Hi,
I have been a child of two people who fought constantly and didn't leave each other. My mother had told me that Daddy doesn't love us and if they were to seperate who would me and my brother pick to live with. This has really damaged my relationship with my father, I bet he doesn't even know that she did this. I have never trusted him fully to ever talk to him about anything. As a child I have believed my mother blindly because she seemed to love us. Now I wish he were there to defend himself and maybe we wouldn't have lost that bond between us. Now at 28 years old my parents are still together and my mom still complains to me about my father as they still constantly fight. I have a daughter of my own now and not a day goes by when I don't think about the consequences of each of my actions towards her. Please have your husband explain his side. Maybe the girls are too young to understand what happened between their parents, but they are never too young to be constantly reminded that they are loved by dad.
.
The respinse dad has been using so far sounds very solid. Stick with it. In the long run, it will be the parents' ACTIONS that influence the girls...Not their WORDS.
They are not old enough to hear about and carry the burden of adult relationships, and failures, and emotions. Any parent who burdens their young child with this info is hurting them. Do not compound the hurt by telling your side of the story. Take the high road.
l would have him talk to her..and say what l said to my ex.."we have a child and will have to know each other for the rest of our lives...we can make it pleasant or unpleasant..l'm for making it pleasant..and handling emotions with care" ..my ex and l are friendly with each other..l consider him a friend..we discussed it, and decided its best for our child..and we're both not big on carrying grudges..especially when there is a child/children involved..its very selfish and trust me ..my ex is no angel..he skips months when it comes to paying child support...but l can't drag my son into it..and he usually makes up for it later..
now the issue is more w/ my boyfriend who is a grudge holder..and wants my son's father out of the picture...have him talk to her..and tell her to grow up and stop trying to mess with her kid's heads..its selfish and will backfire on her in the end...also he should tell them the truth if she continues.
D.
Not that your husband should go into great details, but I do think every time the girls say something like "daddy you left us"; he should let them know that he didn't. That he loves them very much. I think they always need to know that he didn't leave them. Of course when they get bigger they will know the whole story, but as children they need to know that they are LOVE and WANTED.
I think his response is perfect. Children are smarter than we sometimes give them credit for. As they get older they make their on conclusions about things.
We had some past concerns over what my sister-in-law was telling her children about some of their relatives. Nasty, hurtful, and untrue things. None of us were sure what to do about it because even though their mother was speading rumors to her children, we all didn't want to create a wedge between mother and daughters. So we all did the only thing we could.... lead by example. Over the years the two children have seen that their relatives are not the monsters their mother has claimed them to be. They have come to realize on their own that it has all been a personal vendetta. And they inturn have incuraged their mother to take a new outlook on her hatred towards her relatives!
Words are sometimes hurtful but in the end they are "just words". Actions speak louder than anything. As long as your husband continues to show his love and support to his children they will not feel abandoned.
Hi C.,
Sounds like you are doing the right thing. Love is a behavior and not just a feeling, he is showing up for his kids, is reliable, and stable. Keep explanations simple, like, "I have always been here for you, and always will, mommy and I just didn't want to live together any more." They will also take comfort in knowing he acknowledges that their mom loves them very much as well.
Bipolar is a brain pathology, and isn't necessarily hereditary, that said, growing up with crazy, will seem like normal behavior to a child and thus may adopt the same tendencies as an adult.
Stay strong, those twins need consistent behavior from you and your husband.
Happy Holidays,
Wendy
