I Think We Did the Right Thing....

Every child does this. Every child will be on the receiving end of this. When my daughter is the disher, I tell her to play nice. If she won't then I start to ignore her, apologize to the friend and end the play date.

If this had happened at my house, I would've told my daughter to just shrug and walk away.

Either you are overreacting or you have not given us all of the details. If I get what you are saying, you are upset b/c a boy said 'we don't know you'. If that's it, there is absolutely nothing to be upset over. And you certainly should not have told the parents. This is a battle not worth fighting, but you have picked it and now you may have to deal with the consequences. The mother was right, he is only 4. If something this minute upsets you, what is going to happen when something that really matters happens?

Maybe I should track down all the parents of the kids that say actual sh**y things to my son and demand appologies. He's come home crying because of some of this. So saying he didnt know her hardly sounds sh**y

Yep, he's four.

Mountain out of a mole hill. If this gets your feathers ruffled, your child will never have friends.

Anytime one of my kids said, so and so said something mean, I just said oh my goodness, that wasn't very nice, was it! what did YOU say?
If you don't want your children to be victims then teach them how to stand up for themselves, with their WORDS. Tattling does no good, unless it's truly an ongoing problem with a child who is bigger or older, and there is actual bullying going on.
In all honesty, this sounds like relatively normal behavior for a four year old. He is still learning after all, cut him a little slack :(

I think you and your husband made a mountain out of a molehill. I think you should have let the kids work this one out themselves. Honestly what that boy said was not that mean. I'm sorry your daughter got her feelings hurt, but its not like he hit her or called her a bad name. I think you need to teach your daughter to stand up for herself and handle herself in these types of situations. And I also think you alienated his mother for sure. If that were me, I would not want my child to play with yours anymore for fear that you and your husband would be banging on my door for every little comment. I am not trying to blast you, I just think you and your husband need to relax a little and realize that kids will be kids. Unless there is real cause for concern, let the kids handle it themselves. Good luck.

Whoa! How did we jump from a rude comment to school bully?

Honestly, this isn't something I think requires intervention. If you had been present, it would have been a good teaching moment and appropriate to tell the little boy it wasn't nice and to show him how to include other children. However, you weren't, so the child you should be concerned about is your own.

Tell your daughter you're sorry her feelings were hurt, and validate for her that the little boy wasn't very nice. Then, turn this into a teaching moment for HER. Help her to understand that sometimes people say or do things that aren't nice. It makes us sad, but we should still treat them nicely, and try to be their friend and a good example.

Also, teach her some things to say in response the next time someone (anyone, not just the little boy) someone is rude or hurtful. It is our job as parents to teach our children to become independent, which includes knowing how to deal with less than nice people. Starting now with relatively innocuous situations will give your daughter the confidence to handle herself and not be crushed by normal childhood conflict. Running to her defense and demanding apologies left and right teaches her she can't handle things on her own.

And how do you know neither of your children hasn't sometimes been "a snotty little kid who says mean things?" I can't tell you the number of times I've had to intervene during playdates because someone else's child has been rude or hurtful to mine, and not said anything to the parent. I also know that my kids have been the ones to dish it out at times. No child is perfect.

I must also offer some child development info here. Age should matter. A 4-year-old just doesn't have the same intent of action as an older child. The little boy didn't want to play with your kids anymore. Older kids know to suck it up or at least be gracious about turning down a request to play. A 4-year-old is still learning. He was not being cruel. You, the adult, however, are being cruel in your assessment of this 4-year-old.

Now, if there's name-calling, taunting, physical aggression, etc, by all means, approach the other parent. That is cruelty that needs adult intervention.

For this though, your husband should really apologize for his behavior, say he overreacted, and offer a conciliatory plate of cookies. Why turn a little childhood tiff into a fight between adults?

You and your husband need to step back and let kids be kids. There is no reason that your daughter can't respond to something like this on her own by saying "wow that was really mean. Why did you say that?" or "yes you do know me - if you don't want to play then that's OK but you don't have to be mean about it."

This is not something for parents to get involved in, other than validating to your daughter that the boy was momentarily rude and that you trust that she'll remember this and act differently if she's ever in this situation. Maybe use it as a teaching moment for how to be graceful if faced with someone wanting to play when she had already found a different playmate. But to bring this up to the parents like it's a big deal? Overkill. The kid is 4...get a grip.

I know you say you don't care how old the kid is, but you NEED to care. He didn't say a sh*tty thing, he said a four-year-old thing. He wasn't acting cruelly. He was acting like a little kid.

He was probably really disappointed your daughters couldn't come out to play. He might have even been mad. So when he found a friend, and then your girls came calling, maybe he decided to turn the tables. That's what little kids do. They are learning. I'm not saying he was right, but that he doesn't quite know how to behave socially yet.

Your husband had no right to tell her what her child should do. He overreacted and he owes her an apology.

Parents who intervene in schools tend to make it worse for their kids. Work at teaching your kids to stand up for themselves and not come running to you for help all the time.

Wow. It sounds like some pretty childish behavior has been blown way out of proportion.

While the little four year old wasn't polite, it's true, I also know firsthand that children have a very hard time expressing themselves when they feel conflicted. He wanted to play but was told to wait, then he had a playmate he was engaged with and then your daughter came out and he told her "we don't know you"... No, it wasn't a nice thing to say, and if it had been my son, I would have corrected him.

That said, this *is* a common response for many youngsters who are playing with a friend--when another friend comes along. Is it nice? No.Do we cringe when we hear our own kids saying it? yes. There was a great post question last week on play between groups of two and three children. At preschool, we teachers often hear kids expressing their desire to play with just one other friend as "We don't like you" or "we don't want to play with you" or "no boys/girls allowed". This is really more about a young child's feeling very challenged to say "I'm playing with this person, and I'll play with you later." Kids this age need social coaching and sometimes, lots of it.

I write this not to excuse the child's actions, but to explain that this is very, very common.

Sometimes, in the big picture, it's better to let some things go and to help the kids the next time around. I can't imagine making a demand of another parent for their child to apologize to mine. I'd far rather my son be slighted with no apology (and to just be aware that this kid is not always kind) than to receive a forced apology the child didn't genuinely mean. It also does fall into the category of telling another person how to parent, which isn't a big hit, socially.

I also think that we, as parents, have the power to teach our children good discernment-- who is a friend, who isn't, who is acting in a friendly way, who isn't-- and to teach them resilience and kindness. Teach them that if they don't want to play with the kid that says mean things, they don't have to--that they have choices. But I'm not sure that the tack your husband took was the most effective-- it may have been intimidating to this mother, too. Just some food for thought....

At five your daughter certainly could have told this child that what he said was not nice and hurt her sisters feelings. Teaching her how to stand up to this beviour will go a lot farther than having daddy get involved.

I think there is a good chance that you have alienated that mother now. If I were her I would probably steer clear of you and make my son do the same. Was it nice of the kid to say? No, it wasn't. It "might' have warranted a light mention on your part to the mom-just so she knows. But not a direct reprimand and request for apology. Believe me I know that your first instinct is to jump in and protect your child. But you need to learn how to choose your battles.

I'm thinking your time would be better spent teaching your girls how to speak up for themselves and feel empowered, rather than focusing on the random, clueless comments of a 4 year old!

Mountain? Meet molehill.

My 5 year old went to a birthday party at an outdoor park. During which she acted the baby, and wouldn't come out from hiding up my butt, the entire 2 hours, even though the kids at the party were all her "best" buddies from Pre-school. She cried, whined, hid her head, ducked away from the girls, and flat out refused to play. I was so embarrassed and kinda ticked at my daughter for acting so badly. By the end of the party, she ate some cake, grew a backbone, and decided to play with the girls. To which the boldest one of the group flat out said "your a baby and we dont play with babies, COME ON everyone dont let M, play with us" they ran away from her and left her eating dust. I felt broken inside for my little girl, I wanted to scream at that nasty little girl for that. Then my better judgement took hold, and I said good for M, she knows now, that acting like that doesn't make friends. She was hurt, she cried, but you know what? 20 minutes later, she was playing with the group of girls, hugging and dancing around like nothing happened. Kids are kids, its a KID thing, not mean or shitty, or nasty. Its just what kids do. You cant fight every single battle. I would have been a little miffed if your husband demanded an apology over something so tiny and simple. I would not really want my kids to play with yours after that, no telling what you would accuse or complain about next.

you ask not to be blasted, but you say that this child is a BULLY? he is not, he isn't even close. I think today everyone labels people they dont like to be bullies. I dont know about you, but I had some mean bullies in my life. MEAN! I am still here today to talk about it.

Well...as the mom of a 4 year old boy, the comment wouldn't have bothered me at all. In fact, unless my child was traumatized by it - and not just confused or momentarily saddened - I may have simply said, "Oh, so-and-so must be playing pretend, acting like they don't know you. Maybe you should introduce yourself! Make up a different name and join the game." I certainly wouldn't have made a big deal of it or mentioned it to anyone else. Even if they then flat-out told my child to go away. At that point, I would just redirect him to something else. Not everyone has to play with everyone (and yes, I understand that he came to your house and initiated the original play request but he IS four and their short-term memory makes a goldfish look like a mensa candidate). It may have been a serious "go away" request or a silly game of some sort, but I don't think it was cruel, intentional or malicious.

I've heard my son and his schoolmates chant the first part of little bunny foo foo to each other, simply ending at 'I don't want to see you' and yes, a few of the kids took offense because they didn't understand the game at first. I've heard them tell each other they are never going to play with that person again...until tomorrow...and then they are all having fun together within 5 minutes anyway.

I doubt very much that the four year old has any consciousness of his exchange with your daughter. Of course, it's always the right time for a reminder and example of politeness, but don't let a minor thing like this drive a wedge between you and the neighbors or label that boy as a bully that your girls should be wary of for the rest of their childhood.

really?
in the scheme of shitty little things kids say to each other, this is microscopic.
i hope you find ways of bolstering up your children's self-esteem without blowing up tiny little things like this and demanding that 4 year olds (FOUR year olds) deliver insincere apologies and create tension and unpleasantness in the neighborhood.
yes, 'cruelty' should be dealt with.
this was so not 'cruel.'
khairete
S.

E.,
I do think that while his comment was not very nice, it was pretty mild. We have plenty of small children in our neighborhood and we deal with much harsher comments and actions than this. Yes, four year olds do need to be taught how to correctly behave, but I also think you need to pick your battles. You likely will be living next to these people for quite some time. You have already told the mother that his comment upset you, and she has already given her response- she does not feel like it was a big deal (to be honest, neither do I- he did not call her a name, he did not physically hurt her). I think that you should not push the issue. If it still bothers you after giving it some time, then be polite to this family but keep your distance and find other friends for your daughter.

Kids need to learn to deal with things themselves. Your daughter mentioned it. Seems like you get upset not her. In the old days, we went
out to play for the day, Yes there were things said, back and forth, fights
among friends, but we learned how to work it out. Maybe that is why we
did not have a bullying problem. Let me take that back, we had it to a small
degree, but it was handled by the kid. So next time maybe sit back and
observe. JMO.

He's 4, not 14. Your husband is the one out of line here. Odds are pretty good that two overly sensitive adults are going to ruin a good play relationship here.

At my son's preschool they teach them to stand up for themselves in these situations, which will serve them better in the long run. In this case teach her to say "That was a mean thing to say /do" right then. Several days later that little boy will have no idea what he is apologizing for.

You need to get a grip on reality. If you feel this was in form of bullying, then you need to understand the difference between bullying and silliness. This is in the realm of silliness.

Personally, I would think both you and your husband were off your rockers and I would NOT have my child apologize to your child. He did NOTHING wrong. He was being 5 years old. They say silly stuff like that. It wasn't mean, it was silliness.

I believe that parents nowadays are so worried about their kids getting their feelings hurt that they overcompensate. Look, our feelings get hurt all the time, its how we deal with it that builds character. You cannot protect your kids from everything in life. If you did, you have to keep them in a bubble and not let them interact with anyone.

If my child had told me that I would have asked "and what did you say"? You need to empower your child to ask questions, and stick up for herself. She won't get that if you jump in at the drop of a hat and "demand" things. Someone needs to be the adult here.

I watched my brother's girls last week, and I really had to remind myself to be sensitive. It's not that I can't relate. I was a very sensitive girl myself. It's just that I have 2 boys, and they really aren't that sensitive. I just forget. I had to correct each of them a couple of times and almost brought them to tears. I'm just so used to what I need to say to my boys to drive the point home that it didn't dawn on me to try a different approach.

I'm not trying to be sexist or pigeon hole kids at all, but it is often true that girls are much more sensitive than boys. He really probably meant nothing by it.

Had it been my son, I would have kept in mind that he's just being a 4 year old and that this is totally normal. But I also would have corrected him and reminded him that that is not an ok way to talk to people.

Try not to take it so hard. Remind the girls that boys are just silly sometimes, and they say things that can hurt. But they really don't mean it.

I would let it go and just try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Yes, their son does need to learn that what he did was not ok, but he really was just being a boy.

4 year olds are still not fully aware of the impact that their words can have on others. That's why it's our job to teach them and correct them when they say something that they may not fully realize is "mean". Just today I had my daughter at the local playground. She is very friendly and outgoing and has no problem making instant friends and playing with whomever happens to be there that day. Today they were just running around and following each other onto the slide, etc. and my daughter kept saying "Last one there is a rotten egg!" Obviously she picked up that phrase from someone else, or TV, or wherever. She said it 2 or 3 times, but when she started then telling the last kid, "Ha ha! You're the rotten egg!" I called her over and let her know that that now needed to stop - she needed to apologize to the other kid, and she needed to stop using the term "rotten egg", and if I heard it again, we were leaving and going home immediately. Problem solved - she was as good as gold after that.

Point being, like a lot of kid behaviors, there is a lot that can be considered "normal" and "typical" but that is NOT the same as acceptable and that does NOT mean we don't take steps to correct it. I think the boy's mom is wrong not to correct her son when he says this stuff, but I also don't think it is necessary to think of him as "cruel". To some extent it is because he is 4, and nobody is teaching him any better. If he were trying to strangle kittens and smash frogs with a baseball bat, then that would be considered cruelty. Not trying to be mean myself, just trying to put things in perspective.

It should be entirely up to your kids as to whether they want to have a relationship with the boy. What he said was rude, typical kids stuff. You will hear stuff like that a million times as you kids grow up, it is VERY mild compared to what's to come.

That being said, it wasn't nice and you need to talk to your girls about speaking up for themselves and choosing who they want to spend their time with. Sounds like the kid was bored, saw that your girls weren't immediately available and found another playmate. He didn't "need" them anymore and that was his way of saying "beat it".

Raise your own kids to be strong and thoughtful about who they spend their time with, they will need those skills for the future.
Tell your husband he better toughen up, this is NOTHING in the world of rude kids!!!!!

It's such a tough call when someone hurts your child's feelings - you see red and those mama bear claws come out. Believe me, I know too well. That said ... from the details you posted, this situation sounds less to me like deliberate cruelty than a four-year-old just being a four-year-old, warts and all.

I agree with you that the mom's response was a little too blasé. Were I in her shoes, I would have asked my son to apologize. Four-year-olds need to be taught what is and isn't OK to say to a friend, and they need to know the effect that mean words can have on others. However, she obviously doesn't see it that way, and I'm not sure there's much you can do at this point other than let it go.

If the kid keeps being rude and snotty, and it continues to bother your girls, say something to him yourself if it happens while he's playing at your house. Don't yell or lecture; just firmly remind him, "That's not how we treat friends." Then politely make the mom aware that you intervened. If that still doesn't do the trick - well, you'll have to decide whether your family's friendship with this woman and her child is worth it.

I think you are more upset with the mom's response than the child's. She is right in the fact that he is only four and they will say impolite things like this. However, the mom SHOULD have pulled him aside and made him aware that what he said was hurtful to your girls.
My son is four and he and my daughter(3) play with our next door neighbor boys (ages 4 and 6). My kids dearly love both of them. Yet, yesterday while my son was on their swing, the six year old asked if he could swing. My son said no and went on to say he wasn't his friend! I was shocked because my son is very tender-hearted and usually never responds to another person like that. I told my son that was not a nice thing to say. I made him get off the swing that instant and apologize. Everything was smoothed over between the two, but if my neighbor should bring it up again, then we will definitely re-visit another apology.
So just be aware that kids will say these things not realizing how it can hurt the other person. I wouldn't let it become a thorn between the neighborly friendship, but perhaps you leading by example will help this other mom learn how to guide her child's behavior in a more positive way in the future.
HTH,
A.

Once a kid starts Elementary school there will be many things said by other kids. Some nice, some not so nice.
But, teach YOUR child, about how to navigate socially, per remarks said in school or else where.
How to speak up. How to know right from wrong etc. So that, the child gains skills... in becoming self-reliant and self-assured. And then gains skill and aptitude... in how to "choose" friends and how to discern behavior in others.

Yes children can be mean.
But not all.
And per age, a kid is not a rocket scientist about it.
But certainly, knowing right and wrong, by MY kids, is what I expect. So that they can evaluate other kids and whatever behavior is going on and then choose playmates wisely.
I started teaching my kids things like that, from about 2 years old. In ways that they could understand.
Because, you cannot always intervene or make others respond the way we want or would expect.
And sure, not everyone has "polite" behavior. So I arm my kids with knowledge and talk to them about social things and friends and scenarios.

Next time he knocks on the door and wants to play, just have a little chat with him. Remind him of the situation and what he said and what the NICE thing for him to have said would be. Tell him he needs to be nice or he won't be able to play. Good luck.

Isn't your husband *bullying* a 4 yr old to give an apology? I say your husband owes her an apology for demanding her son to apologize.

I am curious to know what the mom said when your husband demanded an apology from her son.

This sounds like more of a lesson for your daughter than the snotty kid, who really wasn't that snotty ("I don't know you" is in the realm of "you're not my friend anymore," aka something kids say all the time because their own feelings were hurt). Four year olds can be snotty, even the super sweet ones, and I think demanding an apology after the fact is a bit much. Having the boy apologize for something he did yesterday won't accomplish anything. But since you were feeling defensive and want to act, you can use this chance to teach your daughter that she doesn't need (or want) to hang around "friends" who aren't nice to her. Raise her to expect and demand kindness from her friends and she'll be hurt a lot less when she's older. Good luck!