Dealing with a Future Lawyer

A couple things I have done are "The Broken Record" and "When...Then...".

Broken Record is just repeating the same response back to him without much variation, emotion, or change in volume. Example: After each argument he presents to get ice cream in the morning say one of the following or close variation: Ice cream is not a breakfast food. We do not serve ice cream for breakfast. Ice cream is not a choice for breakfast. (Then give him the choices he does have). Giving choices that you are fine with can help his feel like he is getting his way to some degree.

"When...Then..." goes like this. If he wants to watch TV instead of get dressed say, "When you are all dressed, then you can watch TV". It works better than, "No you can't until...". The wording is more goal oriented rather than depriving.

Hope this helps,
C. S

Hi G.,

My 5 year old son was the same way and I tried everything to get him to stop but nothing worked. My husband and I were so frustrated we didn't know what to do anymore. So I talked to a couple moms in my daughters dance class and to make a long story short one of the teachers recommends a book called Magic 1-2-3. Guess what? IT worked wonders! It taught us how to stop negotiating and compromising with him all of the time. So give it a try! I bought my copy on ebay for $4, and let me tell you it was the best $4 I have ever spent.

Good Luck!
J.

It's very easy to yell at a little one who argues and negotiates, especially if we are tired or trying to multi-task (what women doesn't??) I would suggest to try NOT getting into a debate or rebuttle(sp?) with him. If you don't engage, who will he negotiate with? A statement like "this is not open for discussion" might help, too. I think oftentimes we are shocked that they are engaging in that behavior and we aruge/debate back...thus teaching them that it's ok. If we don't engage they might not enjoy the debate.

Well I don't want to make you feel worse but you may be contributing to his arguing by getting angry at him. Mom needs to take a time out. All kids will try to get what they want. If they are smart and verbal it's the negotiating. If they are more physical they might start throwing things. You have to nip it in the bud. You might try a code word that means-discussion over. But don't over use it. Once the code word has been said and the "negotiating? continues I would completely ignore the child-until he stops. Ignoring is one of the most powerful and unharmful tools. Children hate being ignored more then being punished. Your child is monopolizing your attention which is bad for all of them. good luck and I'd get some help with your anger first.

Lighten up, darlin'.

We should all hope to cause psychological problems to our kids because it's just paybacks.

I'm a gramma, and I have one thing to tell you: Remember that YOU ARE THE MOM. YOU ARE THE ADULT.

He's 4 years old.

You do the math.

He'll grow out of it.
.

Being a stay at home mom is difficult no matter who you are and how much patience you have. But for 3 children (and energetic boys, nonetheless) under 4, I would say that that would test the patience of a saint. That said, it may be time to focus more on your feelings/actions than those of your son.
I have a few suggestions that I am hoping will help.
I, of course, don't know examples of the arguing/negotiation, but I would say that it might be good to agree with him once in a while. Children just want to know that they are being heard and he will keep pushing until he feels like he has gained ground. If he doesn't want to leave the park, tell him that he can have five extra minutes. If he has his way once or twice, it may make his need to fight you less important.
It is very important for you to asses how important the issues are. If he is fighting you because of something important, it is necessary that you stand your ground, but if it isn't that big of a deal at the end of the day, just let it go. He may not have picked up the playdough after he was finished playing with it, but fighting with him about it wouldn't be beneficial to either of you.
He may be crying out for attention and one-on-one time. I would very much suggest having a special time each week set aside for just you and him. If you can't arrange for childcare, schedule it on a Saturday morning when your husband can take the two younger boys.
Having a break for yourself might also be in order. Stay at home moms can only do so much...and a break is always good. I often tell parents that it isn't the quantity of time that you spend with your children but the quality of the time that is most important. He won't remember that you spent 24 hours-a-day, 7 days-a-week with him, but he will certainly remember that his mommy yelled at him or was too tired to play.
A reward system is also something that might be helpful. If you can pinpoint specific things that always cause arguments, you can try to prevent them by offering positive reinforcement. For example, if he doesn't want to get dressed in the morning, you can have a sticker chart set up so that if he gets dressed without a fight, he gets a sticker. If he gets 7 stickers (not consecutively because at 4 he wouldn't understand that) he gets a treat. It might be extra time with you, a special movie, a cupcake, etc. Anything that he loves (that he doesn't get often) would work.
Provide him with options/use negotiation tactics yourself. If you know he won't want to eat his vegetables, ask him before you serve them if he would rather have his corn with butter on it or plain.
Giving him jobs and responsibilities may also help. If he does want butter on his corn, ask him to help you. He can scoop out a little butter and put it on his own plate. It is likely that he will scoop out a little more than you would, but it isn't a reason to be upset. It is just butter.
Your son is only 4. Arguing is just part of that age. I completely understand that it is trying at a minimum, but it does mean that you have raised an intelligent little person who has reached a milestone of intelligence and processing thoughts. It might help to remind yourself of the positives before you reach a point of frustration or anger.

Dear G.,
I've been there! We have three kids ages 12, 9, and 4 and the first was definitely like your youngest. It can be very frustrating.
The turning point for us was realizing that we needed to communicate the limits up front -- then stick to them without getting angry. Instead, be empathetic, I'm so sad that this is not what you wanted. Then STICK TO IT. If there is a tantrum, then very sadly put him in timeout until he can get control.
I noticed that when I let my anger escalate, it makes the whole situation worse.
And parents cause more damage from NOT setting limits and sticking to them. ;) Good luck!

I try to frame whatever is going on in a positive way- sort of like you did by describing your son as a future lawyer :) so you can appreciate the uniqueness of Who He Is. Also thinking about or even writing down the things you love and appreciate about your son and watch these things expand as you pay attention to them, while the negative stuff shrinks.

Try to say yes or some form of yes as much as you can. When you treat him (and hopefully actually feel) as though you care about his feelings and preferences and are interested in helping him get his needs met, the need to fight and argue will go away. Be the key that unlocks doors for him and not the brick wall he keeps comimg up against. I believe win-win solutions are always possible when an environment of mutual respect has been established. This has certainly been the case in our home with my 4 year-old.

Regarding anger and yelling, I always try to remember the orange analogy: It doesn't matter who or what squeezes the orange, the only thing that can come out is what's inside- orange juice. Same with people- it has nothing do with who or what's "squeezing" us, what comes out is what we have inside- peace & joy, anger & frustration, whatever. I always know it's time to look inward when I think someone has caused me to yell or lash out.

Peace,
K. M.

HA! I have been the same way with my son for 2 years now! (he turns 5 next week). The best advice I received and what works the best is NOT TO ARGUE BACK. Don't let him get a rise out of you (I know, easier said than done) But if he sees you flying off the handle all the time, he's going to think that is how you deal with things that don't please you. Plus he sees that he has some control over you and you might give in. Just be firm. Explain only what you need to explain. Repeat the same thing calmly until it sinks in. Tell him there is no other option. This is just how it is. There are some things he can negotiate on. This will give him some control and he can learn what things he can/cannot negotiate on. For example: do you want to wear this shirt or this shirt today? Do you want peas or broccoli for your vegetable with diner? Do you want to watch Dragon Tales now or Scooby Do later? That way you are still controlling what he wears, eats, watches, but he feels he has choices. And many times, he will want both or somehting that was not listed as an option. Don't budge, don't get upset. This is just how it is. He will get upset, and that's fine. Tell him its okay to be upset when you don't get what you want. But its just not an option right now. Go to your room (or other designated space that is "his") to calm down. This is not a "sent to the room for being naughty" kind of thing, its simply that he needs alone time to deal with his emotions and disappointment. When he's ready to accept that his options are limited, and give you his decision, and has his emotions undercontrol, then he can rejoin the group. When you talk to him, get at his level and firmly explain what is happening by looking into his eyes. If you feel like you are going to lose it, walk away. He will follow you, continuing to badger, but then just tell him you need some alone time, and go to your room or bathroom and shut the door. Count to ten. Then calmly tell him that you are not changing your mind. This is what is going to happen. If you do lose it (as I still do) make a point to make up when you calm down. Tell him you are sorry for yelling and losing your temper, that its not okay for grown ups or children to behave that way. Explain to him that sometimes when he acts the way he does it causes you to act that way. (without blaming him). And that when he starts to see mommy getting angry its time to back off or that is what will happen (you will lose it) That way he learns cause and effect. And always give lots of hugs and kisses. When you yell at kids, they think you are angry at them forever, they need to know that anger is a normal emotion that subsides.

http://www.mamasource.com/request/8731237715737051137

See my information to this other mother. It was about brothers arguing, but the program would be excellent for you.

M.
www.rc-cars-hobby.com

Hello fellow mom of boys. You and your son are both frustrated because there is a power struggle going on. You need to make sure your son knows that you are in charge and that you don't negotiate with terrorists (ha ha) - however, this is a good time for the learning opportunity of making choices. For example you tell him to clean up his toys because it is time for bed. He says no or ignores you. He then has made a choice to disobey the stop sign. This is good for later in life when he has to listen to a boss or a traffic rule or teacher. His choice is to listen to what you have said or pay the consequence. Consequences could be earlier bed time, no tv, no friends on Saturday, no ice cream, whatever you think will get the message across. A spanking, which my children recived here and there should NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER be done in the midst of your anger - and should only be a couple of controled swats ONLY - if you are having your anger issues this may be better left for once you can control yourself and then afterwards he needs to feel your love. If you are frustrated and anger don't stand there arguing with him since that reinforces to him that he has power. He doesn't. He is four years old. So when you are feeling frustrated excuse yourself to the bathroom, close the door (my sanctuary!) and get yourself calm. Pray and ask God to help you. Wash your face. Deep breath. Get yourself calm and them go and deal with issues. Remember he needs to know that the punishment was a consequence of his decision not an outlet for your anger. This will take persistance on your part, but when you are in control you won't feel so frustrated that you are screaming and he eventually will get the picture that you are in charge and you mean business. Good lessons for the other two to see as well.......otherwise in a few years the little ones will run you out of your own house. Then find things that he can be in control of like do you want to wear these pants or those pants, do you want to gave ice cream in a cup or bowl. This will help him learn the things he can be in charge of and can't. Then celebrate that you have a child that can speak up for himself. Let us know how things go.

There's a book called "Parenting 1-2-3". Not sure of the author, but it addresses exactly this behavior, and effectively -- but only if you do your part effectively.

G.,
This will be counter to most of the other advice you will get. I think your boy needs to feel like he has some control over his life. It is very importatnt to let him make some choices. Don't give him to many things to choose from & not with everything, you still are the ultimate boss. Small things like letting him choose which shoes & shirt to wear or which snack he wants. Again, narrow down the choices & make sure you're comfortable with either choice he makes. You need to do this at least 2 or 3 times a day. It's important for kids to feel like they have a say in their lives. It builds their confidence, makes them feel important & less rebellious. Yes, it is easier to just make all the decisions for him, but this will empower him & make him less arguementative. If you allow him to make some small choices it won't be a battle when you make the bigger decisions. It worked really well for my daughter. I seriously wanted to strangle her when she was 4. I didn't & she is now 6. I continue to let her make little decisions every day.

I am dealing with the same thing with my daughter. Make it worse, we live next to my parents, both of whom are handicapped and I assist them/take care of them. Lately, my daughter has been witnessing my mother and me arguing a lot and loudly. I have now noticed her reaction to all of this...she's not the constantly happy-go-lucky little girl she has always been. I imagine it's much like a child in the middle of a divorce.

Anyway, I've been taking extra time with her and doing my very best not to argue with her. Like if I've got errands to run for myself and my parents, normally, we'd take my mother along for the ride. However, now I'm making it just my daughter and me...alone time. I'm also taking more time to "debate" issues with her to help her see my side of it. Rather than just losing my patience and saying "just do what I say" or something like that, the discussing it (strange as it sounds since she's not quite 4 yet) seems to be helping her. It's not always easy, but I am already seeing a difference in her since I am not getting upset, angry or frustrated in front of her...or rarely. She's feeling more confident in herself again and not worried about telling me she broke something or spilled something. I basically am not letting my stress show and it's really helping her.

I realize you've got it different, since you have other children, but hopefully this helps you a little.

Ciao, H.

A little about me: I'm an only parent of an almost 4-year-old daughter and the only caretaker of my elderly/handicapped parents. I am a professional singer and do some graphic design (invitations, announcements, newsletters, business cards, logos, etc.) work out of my house on the side.

Take a child psychology class or a child development class at the junior college. You will learn a lot about how children learn, express themselves, and how they develop. Also, YOU will learn how to understand your kids and how to deal with them in a more positive way. If you know you lose your temper easily with your 4 year old, develop strategies for yourself so you DON'T end up yelling at him. You know what the trigger is (your sons negotiating and arguing) now you have to find a way to react or handle the situation without losing your temper and yelling. Write down these things and actively follow your strategy until it is natural and replaces the yelling and losing your temper. It is not easy to do, but it can be done. This strategy can be used for changing many things in your life that would be more positive for you and your family. Good luck!

Schools are filled with children who argue with their teachers and are difficult because they weren't taught respect at home. I am a teacher- I see them all the time. They are not 'bad' kids. They just weren't taught limits.

If you start changing this problem now, you will ensure that your child will be better liked and happier in the future.
Right now, you need to start believing, from the depths of your heart, that YOU should be the one in control, not him. This problem started because you were unclear about this fact. Maybe it made you uncomfortable to think that you should have so much authority. Now you are paying for it because he doesn't understand that he doesn't have a right to be rude. It is not his fault; by not absolutely demanding respect, you taught him that he can speak badly to you when he feels the urge. But now you are sick of it. You need to re-train him so he knows that you are boss. You can be a loving boss, (give him lots of praise when he behaves respectfully) but you need to be the boss. A good book is "1,2,3 Magic." It will help you figure out how to turn him around. Good luck! It is hard, but if you change his behavior now, he will have a happier life because he will know what's right and what's wrong. Children crave limitations. It makes them feel safe.

We ALL feel guilty for lashing out verbally at our kids. Though we all know we shouldn't and feel like bad mothers when we do, it happens. I think you should try (when your calm and he's not in negotiations with you) say to him that while you understand his need to "negotiate" that you have rules for good reasons. I think just trying to talk to him about your feelings and why you make the rules you do...will help. good luck and don't feel so badly. m

HI! Sounds like you need a little break. You are staying at home and raising the boys, do you take a little time for yourself? Just find 1 hour a day or 3 hours a week to get in some refresher time. The one benefit to my working outside of the house is that I get adult conversation and time to appreciate my kids. I tell people it's my escape. Make sure that you get in some time so that you can regroup and learn to deal with the boys the way they need dealing with. Here are some free activities that you can do:
1. Go to the library and read. It can be trashy romance novels or meaningful "literature", or just magazines. You can even surf the net.
2. Take a long walk around the neighborhood. Check out the neighbors' houses and get ideas for your own.
3. Go to Home Depot or Menards and look around the aisles at the paints and things to decorate your house. I can do that for hours.
4. Go to the mall and walk around and look in the stores. If there is not a lot of money, sometimes stores have awesome deals, I just paid a dollar for clothing at Max $10. I got 6 pieces for 6.53. That makes me very happy.
5. Don't feel guilty when you leave the little guys. You need time for yourself, that is why everyone says it on this site. Once you get refreshed, you will be able to handle your son on his level or just tell him I DON'T NEGOTIATE. That's from the movie "The Fugitive" Good luck.

Wow - I can totally relate! My only boy and middle child is also four and it has been such a rough year (he'll be 5 next month thank goodness!). He argued with us about absolutely everything - going to the bathroom, washing hands, eating, sleeping, which cup his drink was in - you name it. Then I realized he had so many changes this year - new baby, new school, new house, sister at school all day. So I put him back at his old school and this seemed to help. Another thing that helped was just talking to him. I said things like "I know I'm busy with the baby and things are different but I need you to be a good boy" and stressed the importance of his role in the family. I also tried spending a little more time with just him - even just going to the grocery store. And little things like a toy from the gumball machine seemed to make him happy if it was just the two of us being silly together about it. Just giving him 100% of my attention here and there and acknowledging his likes and dislikes. Maybe your son is a bit overwhelmed with the responsibility of being the oldest or maybe you've had some changes too (I wasn't even aware of the changes for my son at first b/c I was so focused on it from my perspective). But 4 year olds are smart so try talking it out with him and giving a little extra TLC. I wish you the best! I know how bad it feels when you lose your temper but they usually forgive and forget!

I agree with those who said don't negotiate, and also with Candace S. My almost 4-year-old wants to negotiate everything, and will do anything to avoid doing what she doesn't want to. Two books I liked: The Manipulative Child (sounds bad, but is really about how some kids will naturally push you to the limits to see what they can get away with, not that they're inherently "bad" or anything) and "Setting Limits with your Strong-Willed Child."

I wish I were more consistent (and my husband too), but following some of the suggestions in these books has helped -- NOT getting involved in arguments, implementing a natural consequense right away instead of getting caught up in an argument (you need to do X before you can do Y -- and I have sat for a LOOONG time and major crying waiting for X to be done). Sometimes we have been late for things, sometimes there have been tantrums, but the upside is that generally our daughter knows that we mean business and that we will do what we say we will. Long-term punishments (no TV for a week) or non-related punishments (I'll take away this toy you like) have been less effective than "natural consequenses", such as if she doesn't get dressed on time then she won't have time to watch her show, make her own sandwich, etc. No lecturing or bringing up the issue again once it's over unless the child wants to discuss it. The books I've read all say that setting clear limits (and staying calm while doing it -- that's one of the hardest parts) really help kids build self-esteem and self-confidence in the long run. Sorry for the ramble, hope it helps!

Supernanny is on WLS t.v. Wednesday nights. They deal with this all the time mom. He gets 1 chance to stop or her gets 4 minutes in the naughty chair, step, corner or whatever place you pick. If he doesn't respond to that, you can take his favorite toy away until he stops. You must get thru to him before the younger siblings pick up the same bad habbits. Good that you're seeking help. Kudos mommy.

I understand what you are going through. My husband is a big negotiator, and also can play "devil's advocate" very well - sometimes NOT requested. My younger child has picked up on this "negotiation skill" and CONSTANTLY tries her hand at it. Here's what I've found works:

1. When I tell YOU (child) to do something, I expect it to be done immediately. This IS NOT a negotiation or a request.

2. If you choose not to listen, you will go on your step/room.

3. Everyone in this house helps out - I cook, clean, do laundry, etc. You are expected to contribute since you are adding to the mess, eating our food, etc.

4. When I call you, you come immediately, AND say "coming Mom" so I know you heard me and you're on your way. (I do not accept, one minute, when the show's done, etc.)

5. If there's a problem, you are expected to use your words - not hit, scream, etc. I talk to you and I expect you to do the same.

6. We ask a question ONCE in this house. If Mom says "no" than that's the answer. DO NOT go ask Dad, because the answer will not change.

These are clear cut, often repeated rules in our house. I have asked my husband to back me up on these things. He has been EXCELLENT in telling our kids, "Go to your Mother right now." or "What did Mom just tell you?"

If you need additional incentive (for the kids) we use cut outs from Lakeshore Learning. I let each kid pick out one paper picture cut out (one picked a package of apples, the other cupcakes). I wrote their names on their pictures, then added a piece of magnetic "tape" to the back of 10 items. Now when we're having listening/following direction problems in the house I pull them out.

The kids "earn" a paper apple or muffin for good behavior, i.e. listening THE FIRST TIME they are asked to do something, getting dressed on their own, getting a school bag out, etc. The apple or muffin goes up on the fridge. When they earn 5, they get a treat (2-3 M&Ms) or get a t.v. show. If they earn all 10 by bedtime, they get special Mommmy or Daddy time, a trip to the store w/o sibling, lunch out, a sleepover with one parent in our bed, etc. Any bad behavior and they loose an apple or muffin. There is ONE warning before the apple or muffin is taken away, and they are told WHY it was taken away. Daddy helps by making a BIG DEAL out of how many apples/muffins are on the fridge when he gets home. (Can't take the credit. Got this idea from SuperNanny.) I find this "game" to be VERY effective when it's used off and on. If used too long, it looses it's charm.

Hope this helps you!

Sara
Mom to 2 kids - 4 yrs old and 3 yrs old

I to am a yeller. I grew up in a family with yellers. When I hear my siblings do this to there kids I realize- its not nice, doesnt sound good and solves nothing. it certainly does not help and I am trying to teach my child self control and then here I have none. so I have a cup and every time I raise my voice in goes a quarter- there are times I throw a dollar in there- once a month its hard for me but the rest of the time I am so much better. It has also helped to set boundries for my boys and stick to them. no negotiating. now that there are set rules and they know theres no negotiating they stick with their punishments much better. there punishments vary from, no DS, no snacks for the day, time outs or write 25 times. depending on the wrong and the child. Good luck and you are not alone!

Hi G.,
I would recommend Tuesday's Child. ###-###-####
4028 W Irving Park Rd Chicago. I was having so many problems with my 3 year old- (he was 2 then), when we started classes there. What I have learned there has given me great insight. For example, that Ben (my son) has sensory integration issues. Which means certain texures, sounds, sights, tastes and smells can greatly affect his personality. I would encourage you to at least check this program out. It has definately taught me how to have compassion but still be able to lay down the law so that he's able to be successful. I hope that helps. :)
Blessings,
J.

I have not taken the time to read the other mom's responses all the way through, and I'm sure there is some good stuff in there. But I would suggest also reading a book called "The Strong Willed Child" by Dr. James Dobson. It will help you learn how to deal with him, set limits, discipline, learn about the kind of personality he has and help you be an all around better parent. And it will also help you to bring out the good qualities he has so those can be strengthened and not squashed. The same author has also written a book called "Raising Boys" (or something like that) that you might be interested in because you have three. I hope this helps!

The book and free video(thru Winnetka Library) of "One Two Three Magic" is fantastic. We've been using it three years and it works wonders when we leave the emotion out and keep consistent. I had to stop engagin in the verbal argument and just step in with 1-2-3 to end the cycle and demonstrate to our son that he had level headed(mostly) :) parents in charge.

Welcome to my world!!!! I have 3 boys and my youngest son is the one who I have had to negotiate with since he was not even 2 years old. He would wake up early in the morning and tell me what we were doing for the day!!! He is now soon to be 14 years old and we have traveled a rough road at times. You need to let him know that you are the one in charge not him. I have told my son that he will have a much happier life when he learns that I am the boss and he isn't in charge of his life yet. Do try to find areas in his life where he can make the choices for himself. Give him choices that he is capable of making, so he feels some control. Find some activities that he can get involved in where he can be a leader to other kids. This seems really irritating to you now but in the long run it will probably make him a good business man when he's grown. Take some time for yourself too. If you have some time away you will have more patience for his negotiating when you get home. Give him lots of extra hugs and let him know how much you love him!!!! When you argue with a child that much they begin to think you don't like them. Now at 14 my son is still a negotiator but we have a great relationship and he seems to know the things I am going to say no to before he even asks but he still asks anyway. I try to help him see what I don't like about the idea and we come up with a solution that both of us agree on. This son is my best helper and we spend a lot of time talking about life. I tell my son he's going to be an awesome salesman because he never takes no for an answer!!! Good luck, hug your boys tons, they grow up too fast....my boys are 18, 15 and almost 14. You can do it, the time flies by fast. You'll be so glad you used patience with him when he is older.

My son was just like this! Incredible sense of fairness and justice. At 4, though, he just needs to know that you're the boss, and some thingsare not negotiable. Don't get sucked in to debates with him - sometimes the best answer is "because I said so" or "because grownups decide, not children" - just like our mothers told us. Tell him you appreciate his logic but enough is enough. BTW, my son is now 24 and a successful, wonderful young man - but still inclined to debate!

It seems as though you've gotten a lot of good advice. I only read the first three. You do need to take time out for yourself, away from the children in order to maintain your sanity. You should watch several episodes of Supernanny or Nanny 911. (They may be on DVD). You should also take note of your son's uniqueness and see the positives. But having said all of that... You are the parent. Aren't you in charge? Why are you arguing with a four-year-old? Explain things to him, but arguing (going back and forth) is out! That is one rule in my house that stands. The parents are the authority. We regularly remind and reinforce with our attention and our actions the fact that we love our children, so that that is never in question. We have made it clear that our responsibility as parents is to protect them, and that we have their best interest at heart. Maybe if your child is very articulate, you can set aside a specific time of the day when he can come to you (after you have had your rest) and tell you all that he thinks about what he needs to express. You can get him a journal so that he can write or draw when it is not the scheduled time for his verbal expression. Allow him to express himself, but in appropriate and respectful ways.

I swore while pregnant with my daughter that I would teach her to question everything, and wonder about all that there is in the world. Then I realized, she would practice on me.

If your son is like my ten year old daughter, you will need to help him decide when to question and argue. These are GREAT qualities, you have to find the way to work with him not to drive you crazy as he works on his skills.

Start with discussing what is open for discussion. For instance, bedtime is in 15 minutes, no discussion. Or would you prefer fish sticks or chicken nuggets for lunch? An apple or pear?

If you are consistent on what is open for discussion and what is not, it will get easier.

My daughter does this. I finally sat down and calmly told her that, from now on, if she argued with me (negotiated, etc) that she would have to spend quiet time in her room. If it was over an object (clothes, shoes, toys, etc) then she would get one "reminder" and then she would lose that object for 2 days.

I also tell her, "I said No. It's not open for further discussion/negotiation/talking/whatever." If she starts up, I remind her and if it continues, I either send her for time out in her room or I take away whatever the object of contention was.

It's helped immensely. In the beginning, I swear she spent a lot of time in her room and crying over losing things. But, after a week or so of that constantly, it's toned down and she's beginning to ask me, "Mom, can we talk about this?" If I say yes, she will try to negotiate. If I say no she just says, "Well, I'm not happy about this but ok."

But, I agree that you need to put your foot down now. I don't feel like I am constantly screaming and arguing with her now. It is much more peaceful around here and the "tiffs" last for much shorter period of time.

Good luck!

I ask my kids, when they start the negotiating 'what did i say?' - they repeat it back to me - and i say thats my final word, i dont want to hear another word about it.

I also notice you said he gets the brunt of your emotions. Sometimes as parents we are guilty of misdirecting our frustration... I sometimes do this with my older girls when i've not slept half the night, and they're asking me a billion questions and i just want the noise to stop. My older kids are old enough to understand when I say 'i'm very sorry for barking at you... i do not mean to take out my anger on you... it is wrong of me to do that, and i'm not setting a good example, but could you help me by giving me about 10 minutes of quiet to let me regroup and dump the frustration i am feeling at the moment?'

Be careful about keeping your emotions in check too...

when he starts the negotiating, tell him 'i've given you my final answer, there is NO negotiating' and if he continues say 'one more word and you're going in time out' (or whatever the punishment - remove game boy, no computer, can't go outside, etc). and then follow thru on your threat. with consistent use, it should get easier. There is a time and a place for negotiation, so perhaps make him feel like he has more control of situations - ask him what his opinion is on certain things... i make my kids come up with solutions to their own problems. they come to me and say 'my finger hurts' - i say 'ok, how can i help it feel better?... what do YOU think we should do?'

good luck mom... take a breather when you can... you dont want your kids remembering you as a screamer :) they're just kids... you can take 'em if you need to! :)

You've gotten some really good advice from other moms. As a teacher, before becoming a mom myself, one book I found helpful when dealing with stuff like this is "Making Children Mind without Losing Yours" Can't remember the author. A.

I agree with Marian - don't negotiate at all. You'll just be setting yourself up for more trouble down the line. In some instances you can offer a choice (i.e. take your shower before Mommy, or after Mommy) but don't waver when you give him instructions. And above all, try to remain calm. Have you ever had a disagreement with your hubby, and then one of you raises your voice, so the other one raises your voice, and next thing you know you're yelling about something stupid? It's the same with kids. If you stay calm, he will undoubtedly still act up, but it will be less and less when he sees that you aren't a sucker. I wish you the best of luck with your future lawyer.