Tree Climbing and Authority

I didn't see original post, but I think it's totally weird when people tell other people's kids what to do (unless they are officially "watching" or babysitting those kids and the parents have approved it). I tell my kids not to do stuff all the time and it doesn't matter a hoot if other kids are doing it, and I would never tell anyone else's kids what to do (except "stop being cruel to animals" or something if they were abusing a kitty or what-not.)

For example, at the park the other day, my older kids were playing by a stream in the park that pulls kids like a magnet even though it's not part of the proper "play area". We were with a friend and her toddelr, and her toddler kept trying to follow my kids, so to be POLITE, I told my kids to come away from the stream, but I did not tell her child not to play there...she did that. Nor did she tell my kids not to play there even though it was an uncomfortable situation for her.

I have one friend who likes to step in and tell my kids (and others) what to do, like "settle down" or "don't throw that" or things that really have no reason to be stopped or the parents would handle it. I don't know why she likes to do this. Maybe because she doesn't have kids and wants to boss some around :).

I agree kids need to understand that parents have different rules for their kids and just because someone else is doing it or not doing it does not mean they can go against their parents rules!~

I teach my kids to respect other peoples property. If I give them permission to do something e.g. climb a tree, and another parent tells them to get down, I will simply say "Johnny has my permission". I am usually the parent that lets their kids climb/jump as long as they are not bothering others.

Assuming it is "allowed" by the owner of the tree...every mom can make the rules for her own kid. If that means another mom then snubs you, because you allow climbing and she doesn't, then, oh well.

Remember the "your mom, your rules" memories of childhood?

Like when I had to be in bed at a certain time and I pointed out to my mom that I could still hear kids playing outside and it wasn't even dark yet--her response? "Those aren't MY kids, YOU are MY kid. I make YOUR rules."

If the tree was on school grounds or in someone's private yard - they should ask permission prior to climbing the tree.

If the tree is on public property - it is NOT the place of the other parent(s) to demand that YOUR child or ALL children get down from the tree. Like you said - that mom should have said - "J.! You know how I feel about climbing trees. Get down now."

Just because I don't like it (and I'm a tree climber) doesn't mean your kid can't climb a tree. IF my child falls - that's IS MY responsibility NOT YOURS.

Would you feel the same way if they were all standing at the deep end of the pool...on their tippy toes? There is danger in tree climbing...you don't have to fall far to break your neck. I'm still on the side of the mother that ordered them all down. But do what you wanna do...I still would not have told my daughter she could go right back up the tree.....just outta respect...that's all.

Nope - I agree with you.

However...... I do try to teach my daughter *political savvy*.... meaning from a pretty early age she understood that there are different rules for her than for practically the rest of the world. I guess by that I mean, I taught her to respect "the rules of the house".... being whatever house she's in at the moment.
******As long as they are more stringent than our rules. She respects my rules if they are more stringent than the rules where she is. So, she understands that even though Susie has a facebook page and isn't 13..... SHE can't have a facebook page. However, she can have songs on her iPod that Susie probably can't.... and that means she can't share her iPod with Susie or let Susie listen to her songs.

I commented on that post that I try to manage to the most stringent rule when *I* am in charge of a bunch of kids. Allergies, tv shows, whatever...... If I know some kids *can't* then no one can.... in the group.

But I also put the responsibility on MY DAUGHTER and I expect her to say "no I CAN'T do that", but I would have a "good talkin-to" with her if she backtalked an adult and said "my mom says I CAN".
So, I get that it's a double standard for her.

However.... there are posts on here all the time where moms ask if it's ok to reprimand another kid who is doing something unsafe or whatever.... a good example is going up the slide backwards. Mamas usually answer that yes, they give direction to other kids, if it looks like the mom isn't actively involved.
This, to me isn't much different. Mom's who don't allow their kids to climb trees, probably think it's unsafe. So they *thought* they were doing all the kids a favor by telling everyone to get down.
I don't think that undermines *my* authority..... because my daughter and I are on the same page.

What I would hope my daughter would do in that situation..... is get down while she is right there with the other kids and respect the *mom in charge*. Then, later, when I'm there, or there aren't kids she's playing with who *can't*.... she can climb all she wants.

If it's just kids in the same area and I was present. I would go tell her she can get back up into the tree. I would probably try to be *political* and go thank the mom for looking out for the kids safety, but let her know that my daughter is an avid tree climber so that's something I felt comfortable letting her do.

I think that it is good for kids to see that differnt parents have different rules and they have to follow what their parents say regardless.

At my daughters preschool their is a feild with bleachers that girls (4 or 5) like to play on for 20 minutes or so after school lets out. One mom says no climbing, one says nothing, my daughter can climb up 3 levels, and another said she just needs to be careful. The 5th mom is a helicopter mom. SHe is right there at the bleachers. When we tell them to come down or high enough etc, we address out children by name becuase we respect that we each have different rules.

I would like to believe that since they see we have differnent rules but they must listen to the one for them that they will follow thier parents rules when we are not there... I just wish I could be a fly on the wall to find out!

SOrt of reminds me of when I was a teen and my Mom would say if all your friends are jumping off the Broooklyn Bridge are you going to jump too?

I didn't see the question you're referencing, but I see your point of view perfectly. I would have issues with some other mother telling my kid to get out of a tree after I said it was okay to climb it. The only way I wouldn't have an issue with it is if she owned the tree.

And we still can't <3 / flower a question. Vexing!

AKA... ditto.

I agree - your rules for your kid, and their rules for theirs, when there is a group together, and an adult is in charge, I think you sould try to go with the lowest common denominator - the strictest rules of the whole group get followed.

I agree completely. I think its one thing if you're watching the group of kids and enforce your rule for all, because their under your supervision but demanding everyone follow your rules so that your kid doesnt get sad is silly.
Emmy's allergic to strawberries, can I outlaw all kids eating them so she doesnt feel left out?

Emmy can climb a tree in a dress (i J. posted the pic to fb yesterday=) )
although Emmy can;t cross the street without holding a hand-
She knows what my rules are and follows them even when I'm not there, she doesnt J. do what other kids are allowed or not allowed
The only way I see her point is if she was friends with the other moms and said that looks dangerous can we tell them to get off?

I do let my child climb trees sometimes. There's a place where they have a very tempting tree, though, and I don't let my kid climb it. It's not allowed by the property. So even if someone else is climbing it, MY child obeys me and stays out of it. The moms that do allow the climbing are not undermining me. They're just disobeying the rules of the play area and allowing their children to do so.

There are many areas of parenting where I don't see eye to eye with others. Someone else lets their kid drive with the barest minimum of hours or fudge how many they really practiced. We don't, because until WE are happy with the skills of the new driver, we are unwilling to let that driver out on the road alone. Or parties with alcohol provided by parents (nope) or having the boyfriend come over when no one else is home (try again). Etc. You make your rules for your kid. I will caution a child that what he/she is doing is unsafe and I'll get involved if my child could be hurt (like throwing things in the park) or if it's posted that it's not allowed. But if I tell my kid to get down out of the tree, SHE is the one I'm concerned with. If I'm "in charge" of the whole group? Then I tell them all. Similarly if DD's on a field trip and the chaperone says no, then she needs to listen.

Now, if she's at a friend's house and isn't allowed to eat sweets and does...I'll overlook that on the occasion. But there are many many times where your child will be without you and you have to instill enough of your values where your child will make the right choice most of the time.

And the thing in the tree question is - both parents were there. The mom told the kids to get down as a generic, but the mother of that one kid said it was OK for her kid. So since she was there, she could make the call for her own child to go back up the tree. Had she told the other mom's kid to go back up the tree, that would have been undermining.

There are SOME kid activities that have to have the whole group stop in order for one or two kids to stop. Climbing a small tree may be an activity like that (my kids play in trees and there is usually only one or MAYBE two ways down- those kids HAVE to come down to have MY kid come down).

SO, I would not put that situation in the category as "Don't tell my kid what to do" category. Also, when you know another mom pretty well, it is usually the norm to feel comfortable to say something when you think something is dangerous. For one, you aren't just looking out for THEIR kid, but yours... I think that is what this is about- doing what is best for your kid.

I mentioned the "have each others backs" thing. It HELPS for when a mom has a not-so unreasonable rule (and a mom that you especially happen to know), that you can have your kid follow that rule, too- just to make that mom's day a BIT easier. That's all. Not a requirement, but a choice and a considerate one at that,

That does not apply to unreasonable and inconvenient "rules" though- that is just crazy.

I liked what wickerpark girl said in the other post: "It depends on if you want to be friends with these moms. The "unspoken rule" that I have found is that when kids are together or in sight of each other.... then you follow the most stringent rule of the group. Sort of like managing to the lowest common denominator. but when you guys are alone.... let her climb to her hearts content.
That skill..... don't do the stuff you're allowed to do around others cuz it will make them uncomfortable will serve your daughter well once she gets to the workforce. Until then.... it will be a giant pain in her a**."

I think it is about teaching our kids a moral compass that will give them the tools to cope with "rules" that are different than ours. If I do not allow my son to climb trees, and he is in a situation where everyone is climbing a tree - then I hope that I have taught him well enough to follow our rules even if I am not there. This, of course, is a metaphor for drugs, drinking, and high risk behaviors.

When faced with real life situations over the years involving multiple children and parents, I do tend to take the village approach. If I see a child engaging in a risky behavior I will correct them - just as I expect a parent observing my child engaging in a risky behavior to correct mine. It may be the years I spent working with youth organizations that gives me this "method" :)

My son, at almost 16 - has developed a good moral compass and has made his decisions on drugs, alcohol, and pre-marital sex. He openly tells his peers of his choices - and sometimes get teased for them. But, basically, his group of peers shares his values - drawn together by shared values - just as we are drawn to our peers as adults.

Just keep teaching your children the values that are important to you - and the rest will fall into place.

Hi J.,
I haven't read the other responses yet. I feel exactly the same as you do on this one. Let's say I'm the only mom near the tree, and I see my kid plus a bunch of others, and for whatever reason, I feel like the tree is unsafe, or I know it to be against the rules - in that case, I would feel justified in kicking all the kids out of the tree. But if the other kids' moms were standing right there, I would certainly NOT kick their kids out of the tree - I would just tell my kids to come down from there. If another mom kicked my kid out of the tree when I was standing right there, I'd certainly ask her why, and would feel a bit offended. The other mom should ask ME to get my kids out of the tree, as in: "Hey, Catherine, the other day the principal was telling me this oak tree has wood beetles and probably isn't as sturdy as it looks." Oh, okay, thanks for the heads-up! You know?

But if it's just that I'm a nervous Nellie and I don't want my kids doing anything that could possibly hurt them, OR I know my kid has terrible balance, or whatever, I'm sure as heck not ruining other kids' fun or countermanding other parents' rules for their own kids because of it. My kids know full well that what I say, they do, and there will be no whining or saying how unfair I am. They are welcome to ask why (after they have complied with my request), and I am happy to explain why.

In my opinion, the most important thing we do as parents is teach our children our values. I work hard to teach them why we have the values that we do, and I assume other moms and dads do the same with their kids. It's okay that they don't want their kids climbing trees, but for ME, it's important for kids to learn to take risks and learn their physical limits. Lots of studies have shown that this is critical to a child's development. So while I recognize that another mom may feel differently about climbing trees and/or saying "no" to her child when other kids are "all" doing something, it personally offends me if that mom decides that her values are more important than mine.

Like I said, if I'm not there, well, whoever the adult is can go ahead and be in charge of my kids - but if I'm there, back off, Betty.

I have read both posts as well as all the answers. I do not think that it was a case of a mom telling another kid what to do. There was a group of kids doing an activity that involved her kid(s). I think any mom has the instinct to do what is best for her child. There is a good point made below: A bunch of kids in a small tree may all have to get down to have one kid get down. I have 6 kids, there is most certainly a capacity limit to trees. LOL. I like tree climbing, by the way- but my kids, all of them- are very agile.

Hmm I didnt read the main question but I'll answer yours. For the most part I do not tell another parent's kid what to do unless of course that child is in my care. My daughter loves to climb trees and she is very good at it. I do not think I'd want my daughter though to climb with a friend who's mom wasnt around because Iwouldnt want that liability and I surely do not know if they are as skilful as my daughter. Now if it was someone elses tree or property heck the owner of tree has a right to ask her to get off, but really my daughter knows better than to go on someone elses property to climb a tree. Heck she is never that far away from me that she'd even get on their property. I've seen kids climb the wrong way up slides etc and I try to stay out of it. I see some parents man that will just ignore this and its dangers plus other items. Makes you want to throttle them. Now if I saw a child doing something very dangerous with an absentee parent. We've all seen that the kid is doing something totally dangerous and the mom is to busy on the phone or something. Dependiing on how dangerous i might say ooh be careful you do not want to hurt yourself. Hoping the mom hears it and actually starts paying attention to her kid.

I really appreciated JL's sentiments on finding a good parenting match with other mothers. I've chosen to do this and while there aren't a lot of other moms who have the same values/rules as my husband and I have, we've found that playtime is very fun. I spent three hours at the park today with a girlfriend who has a similar parenting style--our boys had a great time. They climbed low trees (we were both right there, keeping an eye on them) and we are both comfortable giving some direction to the group of three ("If you want to throw pinecones, lets throw them up the hill and not down, where people may be on the path.." ) It was relaxing, a nice time for all of us to connect, and I'm excited that her boys are old enough to develop their own relationships with me and my son, with her.

At our house, however, we do have an older tree that I know is dying. It is a short tree; the highest my son can climb is about 4' up. Our house rule is that he may climb it only when we don't have company/playmates over. He really wants to climb and the risk is relatively small... he falls a short way onto lots of soft grass at the worst. But I also know that I don't want other people's children to run the risk of being hurt, so that's my agreement with my son-- he doesn't climb when friends are present.

Bruno Bettelheim writes in "A Good Enough Parent" that our children need us to stick to our values, to be the wall they push on during adolescence when they are prone to rebelling and expressing their autonomy. I love this image, a wall-- walls are solid, and if you are pushing on one, it will hold you up. But if you, the wall, give way and let kids (or other parents) decide your parenting values for you, the child pushing will fall. We uphold our children by being clear and consistent with our family rules. We do our children a favor (especially young children) when we find other parents who don't offer things that aren't allowed at home. There's less conflict.

Because of my profession, having worked with children for so very long, I am very comfortable in giving children some friendly reminders. One little boy (4 or 5, my son's age) wanted to run off with us to the swings, which were across the park. His mom was busy with his toddler sibling, and I reminded him with a smile "Oh, go check with your mom first!" I really would hope someone would take the time to be friendly and remind my son to be safe if I had been distracted too. It's the Village... but the friendly, gentle village and not the bossy "You can't come with us! Your mom doesn't know where you are!" And I'm also aware that if the mom is close and paying attention, it's her job to decide, but I'd like to think that a gentle reminder to go check with mom means that this will save that mother from a moment of panic and wondering where her kid's gone.

My little boy is young now, but we do sometimes end up being the odd ones out. Our preschool is very clear about 'pick up your kid and go home', and although other families linger, I am clear with our son: the teacher's rules are to say our farewells and leave, and I'm going to respect her. When we are in what we call "someone else's space" (and I like how Wickerparkgirl talks about 'rules of the house'), their rules apply. That said, I'm believe that I'm responsible for finding healthy households for my son to play in. I'm always surprised when I read posts on cell phones wherein a parent wants to talk to their kid when they're at a friend's house, but doesn't want to 'bother' the attending parent. Oh, not me. I want to talk to that parent! That parent will likely give me a better picture of what's going on than my child will.:) Just my two cents....

I share your same sentiments. My solution is to be selective of who you and your children spend your time socializing with. I have gone so far as to "screen" not only my kid's friends, but more so I screen the parents of my kid's friends. I figure if I don't share their parenting style, or same philosophy on life and kids, then there is no point in encouraging a relationship between our children...because eventually a day will come where they will be in charge of my child and their well being (such as a sleepover or situation when I'm not there so their house rules trump all). I would hope they would have the same regard for my children as they do for their own.

I'm pretty up tight, so if I found out a parent was an anything goes type and would allow their children and friends to climb all over a tree without batting a lash, I'd be distancing in a heartbeat. I'd be thinking this person has no common sense and that if they are allowing this behavior they are making themselves liable as the owner of the home, not to mention, it's just plain dangerous for the kids. I myself would never want to be responsible for a child getting accidentally paralyzed or killed under my watch, so I would hope my kids' friends' parents would have the same feelings. If I discovered they didn't, they're off the list without a second thought. Who needs friends like that?

So hopefully when the kids are older and away at a friend's house, I don't have to worry about a permissive parent allowing or encouraging bad behavior or looking the other way if they know the kids are up to no good. I'd hope the parents of my kid's friends would be policing the kids and their activities as I would and would call me for reinforcment if they were doing something we both agreed was dangerous or inappropriate, and vice versa, I would hope they would be open to me doing the same if I caught their kids doing something we both wouldn't approve of.

I know this is no guarantee bad things won't go down or the kids won't get into bad stuff...but it sure will cut down on situations like this. A unified front is much better than dealing with a parent you know is totally at odds with you. JMO

So to more directly answer your question if I don't like a particular parent's parenting style, if I think they're too permissive or would do or allow things I don't approve of, there is no way in heck my kids would ever be allowed to go to that house or associate with the family in the first place. I have to be totally on board with the parenting style and philosophy of the parents of my kid's friends. If we all agree on what is safe and not safe etc. and are working as a team to support each other on those standards then there shouldn't be a problem if I find out someone's mom told them to get out of her tree...because I would never let her kid climb in my tree for the same reasons. I would never encourage a friendship with a parent who would approve of activities I think are dangerous and at the very least wouldn't let me know what their plans are and make sure I'm okay with it.

Now if you're talking about a total stranger in the park...that's another story. They have no right to say a word, unless they're a law enforcement officer or someone in authority. But some busy body mom has no business bossing, I'd probably take exception. On the other hand, If the kids are in danger, I might make exception and not take offense, as sometimes a voice of reason is necessary to prevent undue tragedy.

I never tell other peoples children what to do unless they are bullying mine. For example on little brat about 8 or 10 called my son an idiot. The second time he did it I climbed to the 3rd kevel of the play set and told him in no uncertain terms to never call my kid or anyone else names. My son is 5 and didn 't even know that term is derogatory. Likewise if anyone tells my child what to do I don't like it. I'm their mama-I am in charge not them-end of story. However when they get older I know they will be out of my sight and control-my job now is to teach them to do the right thing even when no one is looking. I don't think I answered your question but instead went off in a different direction:)

Yeah I do not think it is right at all to tell another person's child what to do UNLESS I'm babysitting them or have been trusted with them while they are spending the night with my child or whatever the case. Even if the kid told me that their parents don't mind, I'd still say, well I do and I'm watching you. BUT if that kid's parent is there, I do NOT have any right to tell their child what to do. How rude! BTW--is it wrong for kids to walk up a slide? My son does this all the time. I let him unless another child comes up to the slide to go down it. THEN I tell him to get off. ?? LOL!

My kids know what me/my husband allow or not.
And that everyone is different.
This is per eating or climbing a tree.
Not that they are perfect, but they can also speak up.
My kids would have told that Mom that "My Mommy said I can climb the tree." It is not undermining that other Mom. It is about... each family and their rules are different. For whatever reason.
And geez, can't we speak up?

Yesterday, my son was climbing a tree while we waited for my daughter in her extracurricular class. This was not at school. But somewhere else.
I told my son he can. I was right there. And to spot him. There were 2 other kids there too. Who wanted to climb the tree. I told them to ask their Dad first. Common sense. I am not their parent. So they went and asked their Dad. He said okay. So fine. But if he said no, then they would not have.
They are not my kids.

And sure, if my kid had a cookie at school, fine.
I can't expect my kids, in a classroom to totally abstain from a cookie. I don't punish for that. Its just a cookie.

A kid, generally knows what their parents rules are. And if not, then that is what childhood is also for. For them to learn. It takes more than one day to get it.

Also, beyond knowing the "rules" of the parents... a kid needs to learn, what is right/wrong, dangerous/safe. And that, they are not followers. I have always taught my kids that. And they learn these things in school too. And I always explain my logic to my kids, about decisions and how I discern things. Thus they can discern... situations. A kid needs to learn to "Discern" situations too. And to speak up.

I will just say that I have been known to say, "No, it's okay, she's fine." with a smile. If it's my friends I'll discuss it, but if not, then I just stick with the above statement.

As a parent, it is my job to parent MY child, UNLESS another child is a danger to others or to themselves. I would not tell another child to get out of a tree - I would tell mine (though I wouldn't in this case), and I would maybe remind the others to be careful. But who the heck do I think I am telling other kids to do something if it's not DEFINITELY dangerous (playing in a parking lot, etc.).