We have neighbors of long standing who are generally wonderful people, always cordial, the type who would happily lend you not only a cup of sugar but a car if yours was in the shop. We socialize somewhat - not on a monthly basis (our kids are different ages so we never traveled in the same circles) but definitely for graduations and bar mitzvahs, that sort of thing. My son took care of their pets for many years and did the usual vacation coverage type of tasks, and we have keys to each other's houses. When our dog died, she was the person I called for comfort, and she delivered.
The husband travels a lot and is kind of the clueless sort but generally responds well to his wife's direction - you know the type. The wife is overcommitted and overloaded - she does graphic arts, company logos and party planning so the house is always loaded with supplies and deadlines for centerpieces, invitations, etc. She seems to bounce from one deadline to the next, always in a panic, never getting enough sleep. A lot of their cluelessness is sort of quirky or bordeline-charming - never remembering trash day, leaving the trash can out for 5 days so it half blocks the street, parking a car in front of the mailboxes so there's no delivery (or an inconvenience for the letter carrier), that sort of thing. They always seem to deal with the consequences rather than be pre-emptive. The dogs are 11 years old and have never been trained not to poop on the patio & pool area, for example. And they called me for peroxide and a turkey baster when one dog got into the chocolate bars the kids were selling for a school fundraiser - but it was too much trouble to take a box of 40 chocolate bars and put it up on a shelf. They're "too busy" to recycle (despite town regulations) so there is a ton of overflow that spills over, and quite a few of us have been picking up for them. When we remind them, they are frazzled and grateful, but nothing changes. So we've stopped. The trash pick-up company (private service, not provided by town) finally got sick of the can never being placed properly so it could be picked up by the automatic arm, so the driver drew 3 big arrows on the top of the can with the words "to street" on top - and after 2 weeks, the wife asked me what this could possibly mean! Even after the explanation of why the trash company wrote that and had stopped picking up from them, they still put it out wrong the next time. There's just a sense of entitlement that somehow, things will work out or someone else will do it.
When the daughter was in high school, she could never get up in time. The bus drivers have always stopped for a kid running late and "in transit" to the bus stop, but this one bus driver took to stopping at this girl's house, honking the horn (at 6:50 in the morning) and waiting for her to come out. It got to be annoying for several families who didn't get up that early, and I finally spoke to the bus driver and asked her to stop. "I'm just trying to help her," said the driver. "But you're not," said I. "She will never change unless she misses the bus and has to walk to school once." It worked, but the family still was bewildered about why this stopped or why it was a problem to begin with.
But this "always in a rush, never have time" philosophy has a dangerous side. There are 3 cars, 4 drivers - a son just graduated high school, a daughter just finished her junior year in college. Usually 1 of the 3 is away - college, summer camp, husband's travels, but there are usually 2-3 around at any one time. They all drive too fast, sometimes on the wrong side of the street because, what?, it takes too long to go around a curve on your own side because it's a little longer? We live in a residential neighborhood at the end of town - there's no through traffic, just neighbors and deliveries, but there are 40 hours and about 100 kids. Their driveway is on the other side of a T-intersection - so they come up the street and drive right into their driveway because most traffic goes left, and only 2 houses are down the right side of the "T". When they come out of their driveway, they are flying - not looking at traffic making the turn and, worse, not looking for kids on bikes or walking to the bus stop. Quite a few families have told their kids they can't ride down the street past this house because it's not safe. Both kids, and both parents, have had a few fender benders, and they just laugh it off. They usually hit stationary objects (poles, rock walls, telephone poles) and none of it, to my knowledge, is due to texting, just lack of focus and lack of anticipation. The suggestions that they slow down are met with, "You're right. I'm just so busy and have too much going on." So it's not working - and most of the people in the neighborhood won't say anything directly, like I do. I just don't think I can be any more direct. And yes, kids have been told not to ride there, but they forget. And occasionally a dog gets loose and is in danger. This family's own dog was tragically killed by a UPS truck, and while they would be horrified and heartbroken if they ever killed a dog themselves, they don't think ahead to slow down and stop at the end of the driveway.
I'm uncomfortable saying, "You know, Christine down the street won't let her kids ride here because you nearly hit her 3 times, and Mike nearly got picked off on the curve by your daughter driving on the wrong side." It's not up to me to tell other people's stories.
I'm thinking the best thing is to go to the police and have a non-emergency conversation (not call 911, just the main number or even stop in). Years ago, a prior police chief told me that they want to know these things and that they would rather send an officer to the house (big impact with someone in uniform, he said) than have neighbors get into a dispute with each other. There's a new police chief and the force has grown, but we are still a town of about 20,000 people, not a major metropolitan police force with tons of violent crime.
So my question is, have you dealt with anything similar? How did you handle it? While I do love these folks and I value the relationship, that's not my hesitation. I don't feel that continuing to mention it is going to have any effect, especially if they think it's just me that has the problem vs. 10 different neighbors. Do you have any suggestions other than discussing it with the police? It's beyond irritating and has gone into the danger zone. Did your choice affect your friendship or the neighborhood dynamics? What else would you do?
TIA!
To answer some questions: No, we don't have a Home Owners Association. But we do have a core group of about 35 neighbors who are part of a group email network (welcoming new neighbors, planning a Labor Day Block Party, coordinating for mosquito spraying or multi-family yard sales, finding baby sitters, and so on. Some people are really involved, some aren't, but there's a level of communication and cooperation.
I'm really not afraid of losing the friendship - I'm just fearing that me continuing to talk is doing nothing to change their actions.
About 20 years ago, the long flat part of the street was paved, turning it into a speedway. We all got together and had a meeting to shoot some ideas around, and we wound up with a petition to the police and Public Works Department to lower the speed limit from 30 (when people drive 45) to 20 (and now they drive 35, up from 25 when the signs first went in). The police helped us organize it, actually - letter to them, then they parked a few cars to observe speeds which were indeed excessive, then they endorsed the petition to the DPW who put the signs up. Have 40 signatures got that letter to the top of the pile. So we do have a history of neighborhood action. We have a lot of new people moving in though so it's time to reactivate that network of action. However, there was great opposition to speed bumps so I don't know if I'd get support for that - but as noted below, they take forever to put in place.
I think finding out if there is a community liaison officer is a great idea. I will do that right away. If not, I think it's a small enough town force that kind of everyone is a "liaison" anyway. I will also sit down with the biggest (justified) complainers and those who've nearly been picked off or have seen others in that predicament, and get them to agree to a meeting, ideally with the officer at my house. If no meeting, I will see if they will all write letters. Christine is good and ticked off, and Mike is a federal law enforcement agent, and there are 2 others I can think of - all are well spoken and rational. So it's just a question of getting them together.
I'll keep reading new responses for additional ideas and wording ideas. Thank you - keep the comments coming!
Where I live people will either petition the city to install speed bumps in the area or put up signs asking drivers to slow down, children playing.
If you like them and value the relationship, come to them with kindness, but firmness. You don't want to be "telling stories" but OTOH, people are relaying this to you. I would tell them, "You need to know that your teen drivers are endangering children on our street by...." and "I'm telling you this because I care for their safety and the safety of other children." You might also encourage other neighbors to speak up, especially those with younger kids. It is one thing to be in a hurry. It is another to be reckless.
You might also encourage a campaign like I've seen elswhere where people with kids put up those slow turtle signs or "Slow down! Drive like your children live here" signs. I would also talk to the teens themselves. "I've noticed you drive on the other side of the road. You need to stop doing that because it endangers other drivers as well as yourselves."
You can also ask the non-emergency line for advice. Sometimes with enough complaints they will put up a speed sign and track the speed of a neighborhood street to determine if speed bumps or anything else is needed.
I also think that they need to face consequences. Don't pick up their trash. Don't sugar coat. They need direct responses. "The trash company is angry with you and refuse to take your trash. This causes a problem for the rest of the neighborhood. You need to place your cans properly to not be a nuisance."
If you have the key to their home, you have enough relationship to speak to them. It may be uncomfortable, but I think it's worth saying, without any pussyfooting around. When they laugh off being asked to slow down, you need to get serious and say, "This is very serious. You are endangering the residents of this neighborhood by not being more careful. You need to take this seriously. Your neighbors are fed up and need you to stop flying out of your driveway. People are avoiding this end of the street because of you. This isn't a joke."
What a pickle indeed. But you're right in wanting to resolve the issue. I'd not let another day go by that could end in someone being killed.
I would call the police department (non emergency, as you said) and find out who the officers are that regularly patrol your neighborhood during the time your friend's family is usually driving like a bat out of hell to leave the house. Ask that they drop by to talk with you or please give you a call.
I don't think sending the officer to talk to them would matter a bit. It might help for a few days, but I doubt it'd last. Let the officer know what's going on and your concerns over this family not heeding friendly warnings or advice. Perhaps they could catch them in the act a few times by parking down the block around the curve, pull them over, and hopefully deter them/persuade them to slow down. A few tickets would likely be a good, logical consequence. And you wouldn't be the one giving a lecture.
Man, that's a toughie! I totally understand why you think an intervention with these folks wouldn't necessarily be the thing to do. Plus, I see your concern about wanting to remain friends/friendly. We have neighbors who have some habits we are not fond of - we are not really "friends" with them, but want to maintain a neighborly relationship if we can. I can share how we handled the two issues we had - not sure if either (or both) would work for you:
1. They had a dog that they left outside that barked continuously. I mean ALL THE TIME. My office is in my house so I had to listen to it constantly. The other neighbors had tried talking to them, but it would only stop for a day (they would keep the dog inside one day) and then it would be right back where it started. We got together with other neighbors and decided to mail them an ad we got off the internet that sold bark collars - mostly because the ad talked about how barking dogs can drive neighbors crazy (we highlighted that part). We addressed it to "Our Neighbors at blah blah street" from "Residents of blah blah street". They never left the dog outside again. Go figure -talk until you are blue in the face, nothing, but a letter changed it all.
2. Junker car in the street. We ended up asking police officer to give them a warning about this vehicle since the tabs were expired (which is in violation of the town ordinance). Although all the neighbors had asked him to dispose of the vehicle, the friendly visit from the officer (no ticket given even though they could have) got rid of the vehicle in 24 hours.
Maybe a letter from the neighbors AND a friendly visit from the local police would do the trick?
Good luck
D.,
As uncomfortable as it is, safety trumps discomfort. I think if the neighbors are concerned enough about this (and they should be), they should be willing to speak up. I realize you can't make the neighbors do this and that it might be awkward if a group of you showed up on the offending family's doorstep, but Starr B.'s suggestion of a letter might be a really good first step. You are excellent with words, so maybe you could write a letter and ask the other neighbors to sign it with you. Or, you could do as she did and sign it, "Your Concerned Neighbors."
If the family gets mad at this, it might be a good thing and might finally motivate them to stop and think and slow down.
It's also a good idea to alert the police and have them park in the area to observe and ticket as needed as Christy Lee suggested. Paying traffic tickets and risking an increase in insurance rates might give them the wake-up call they need.
Good luck!
"I'm uncomfortable saying, "You know, Christine down the street won't let her kids ride here because you nearly hit her 3 times, and Mike nearly got picked off on the curve by your daughter driving on the wrong side." It's not up to me to tell other people's stories."
They need to tell those stories to the local police liaison officer. Get together these families and contact your local police department to request -strongly -- that they send a community liaison cop to talk to this family. Ask that the officer not identify anyone but say that the police have had "complaints from several families about speed and other issues." It will be FAR more effective for several neighbors to go with you to the police than for you to go alone, and families that might be too chicken to approach the family might agree to tell the cops what they've observed if no names are involved.
I'm not sure why you say you want "any suggestions other than discussing it with the police." You also note that a previous police chief said they want to know these things. So why the hesitation? Does your local department not have a community liaison? Or is the concern that this family will end its friendship with you if they think you "tattled"? If you're unwilling to talk directly and frankly to them, the police would be your only recourse. (Speed bumps would curb the behavior but bumps require months or years to get installed -- the town or county would have to do studies, get approvals, wait for funding in a government budget, wait for work to begin...it takes too long, and kids are being endangered right now.)
I would consider starting a neighborhood campaign too. It's been done around here. People put up bright red yard signs saying "Drive Like Your Kids Live Here" and similar things, and when you get those in many or most yards along one street, it makes the message pretty clear that people are paying close attention to how their neighbors drive. You could even .ask them to participate and say it's a neighborhood-wide campaign. (The cops likely will help too.) But really, an honest talk from several neighbors at once -- not you alone -- might wake them up.
You also say that you think talking won't' work if they think "it's just me that has the problem versus 10 different neighbors." So get those neighbors together, at least a few of them. If the Christines and Mikes of the neighborhood are too afraid to speak up directly to this family for safety, the cops are your next stop. Local police really do want to know this stuff, believe me.
I'd start with a police officer coming to a neighborhood meeting where this family is not invited. I'd let all the families chime in. The officer should take notes and be able to cite how many families are affected by their poor judgment.
Then the officer(s) should meet with all the drivers in that family. He should tell them that this conversation and the info that the neighbors have providing police will be used in a court of law if an accident caused by their bad driving happens. I would actually consider the neighborhood pitching in to have an attorney write them a letter after the police visit.
Forewarned is forearmed. Don't put it off.
Speed bumps might work in this case. some were put up on the street in front of our building. Ours isn't a main thoroughfare but it is a preferred backroad between the Brooklyn Queens Expressway, the Jackie Robbinson Highway, the Grand Central and the Van Wyck Expressway.
Just FYI, since you live right next door. . .
1. speed bumps cause a bunch of noise. Even though they are well posted, people who don't drive the street often somehow are unprepared for them and don't slow down enough for the first one and make a godawful noise with their cars.
2. one speed bump might not do the trick, you need several in close succession to get traffic to keep to slow.
3, several speed bumps might not do the trick, if the gaps between them are too large, as is the case with ours as they near intersections, drivers try to make up speed as they go along the flat section increasing the danger there.
4. finally you and everyone else will constantly have to drive along those speed bumps.
Best,
F. B.
We have 2 stop signs in our neighborhood and I have almost been hit numerous times because people just blow through them.
It's not high traffic area and I suppose people don't think stop means stop. Someone is going to get hurt.
Our HOA has a FB page as well as our own webpage. Last year a mom say at the playground and videotaped 4 of 5 cars ignore the sign.
We contacted the non ER line of the police and told them if the city is in need of raising funds, here are 2 great spots! About once a month now, we see an officer hidden from the stop sign and writing tickets. They also stepped up patrol in the neighborhood,
It has not made the issue go away but it has been a deterrent. You might try that route.
Also, when some captures a pic of a license plate and car, it gets posted in the FB and website page.
Summertime is worse here with kids out of school and college kids back home for the summer.
Good luck.
ETA.. We have some kids who believe they are invincible. My neighbors 3 girls old enough to know better ( grades 4,6,8) NEVER look when they dart into the street or across the street. It's like they have a death wish. I've almost hit the youngest 3 times when she never slows Her bike down and crosses the busiest neighborhood street without looking. I stopped and yelled at her once because it was such a close call.
on the road in front of my house the speed limit is clearly posted at 35 mph. however most people think that its a country road and that 55-65 is ok. my neighbor gets tired of having cars flying by so fast that she calls the cops to come patroll and issue tickets for speeding. they most often set up a speed catcher that takes a picture and auto sends a ticket to the speeder. maybe you need to have the police talk to these speeders and issue tickets for the speeding... after so many tickets they will loose their licenses and will have to change their ways.
I'm sorry, I admit right up front I didn't read all of this - but I agree that having a chat with the police is the right thing to do. They are people too - and if you explain this is a neighbor you have a good relationship with, but there is a situation you feel is dangerous, they will handle it. It is no different than a noise complaint or anything else. You're doing the RIGHT thing by bringing in an impartial third party, who happens to have authority. No need to get nasty and the cops won't either. Rest assured, you'd be doing the right thing. Good luck, I hope it helps. I've thought about seeing if we could get one of those "Slow, Kids at Play" signs for our neighborhood, but our issue isn't neighbors, but people driving through.
Welp, my long answer disappeared into space, so brief recap:
Thanks for background, I know their type.
They do not get to continue endangering the public, breaking the law, and treating their intersection like their own personal driveway while people carry on avoiding them after nearly being run down just because everyone has let them do this for years.
Your neighbors stories ARE yours to mention if you feel like it and it would have more impact the next time it comes up. When you have the courage to say something, they only hear a fraction of it and think "That's your opinion" to themselves. But if you say "___________(ten people) avoid your corner and your daughter almost ran down_______" THEN they suddenly have egos at stake for their reputation in the hood. Since common law abiding safety is not something they value, maybe they'd hear that more. Maybe not.
But regardless: YES involve the cops. A visit from law enforcement with "numerous reports of _______violations" should make them listen. Or not. But it needs to happen.
Personally if I or my child or my neighbor had been nearly hit by them ONCE I would have been over there with the cops. I know it's hard when they are "nice people" but how will all these people who don't speak up feel when someone is badly injured or killed? Sending you strength in numbers! Get those neighbors off their butts too!
I can totally understand your point. But you have ample evidence that no matter who talks to them, they are not going to change.
We got the city to put in a stop sign. Then we asked them to come stake out that stop sign frequently. The one driver stopped driving like an idiot when they got a few tickets.
The "need" for a stop sign is obvious. It's a 3 way intersection. Give the stop sign to the driver that is the only one going a different way. The other two are going back and forth so they are going East/west or North/South where the one car is the only one going ONLY east or only west or only north or only south.
Talk to the city, let them know about the high speeds and near misses. Ask them to put in tall speed bumps. That's one that will slow them down a lot.
