How Did I Get Here?

EVERY marriage goes through times like this! Keep talking with him, keep trying to work it out. Get counseling if you both think it will help. Don't give up! I can read between the lines and tell that you love this man. Focus on the positive and work on the rest.

Maybe someone already suggested this, but my thought is that you need to sit down with him, and talk about the thinks that need to be done, and decide who is doing what. Men don't do well with subjective directives, like "I need you to be more helpful". But, if he knows that giving the kids their baths is his job (and/or doing dishes, paying bills), then there is no reason to argue every night over who is doing what. He knows what he needs to do, and you know what you need to do. If he is a reasonable person, this should be helpful.

I have been married twice. And I had two sons, now older. They are men so to speak. Ok, children in men's bodies. So I guess I can say I learned a lot. Some things are just man things. They really do not listen to everything we say and they really do not lay awake worrying about all the things we do. They lay awake and think about exactly what they say they are thinking about. Mostly cars and huuchy coochy. Or something that needs conquering or figured out. Am I clear? So, if he is not your best friend that definitely makes marriage difficult. My first husband was definitely not my best friend and my second husband who is just as flighty and inconsiderate as my first husband was at times, is my best friend. So, did I do anything? I did. It turns out that while first husband and i had severe problems, (loss of home to flooding, horrible anxiety issues and OCD and so on and so on-not me him) we also spent millions of dollars on marriage counseling and they love to take your money week after week, but unless both of us were on the same page ( I think was and he already read ahead) we were not going to get anywhere with the lovely doctors..My first husband was negative, down and unwilling to bend so of course if that is in your life, you may make a life changing decision. My second husband and I laugh and laugh over everything. My second husband helped me raise my children, became an American citizen to stay with me and live with me and still has wild hoochey coochey with me after many years of marriage and uterine cancer. Ick he doesn't get upset about the big ugly scar! Now, you can do some of this: take that money you would have spent on a counselor and go on a vacation-with or without mr. currently not wonderful. You can explore things that are going to make you happy. You can quit setting up a social life with him in it and see your friends in the day or when he is not around. He will notice that you aren't doing anything anymore, I guarantee it. You can stop doing all the shopping, let the cabinets get empty and make sure you treat yourself and of course feed your children unless they are old enough to do that. In otherwords you cannot change him, but you can change your life to where you are back to being you and just might enjoy him a little more because you will like yourself. I recommend that you also look at other men, do not cheat, that is wrong, but see them also very clearly. The grass is not greener, they might be muscular and handsome but some of them are very dudly at home themselves (not a typo, that said DUDLY not studly). And grab those girlfriends and go for a walk, with the exception of paying the bills which you know have to be done (even I am still stuck with that) quit doing any of those things that you do not have to and enjoy your life. Seriously, life is too short. He has to change himself. You can be happy. You really do not have to depend on him to do it.But I would rather hear you never have a second husband. So enjoy what parts of life he does give you pleasure in. And even leave the kids with him. I have a hunch the house my not be clean but he will be fine with them. Good luck you sound a wonderful woman!

Hi J. - I can feel your pain and frustration through your message. Dont go seeking out an attorney just yet because this is something that can be helped. It's sounds like you have a great guy but your respect and admiration is just being sucked dry by all this conflict. A counselor will help you to get to the root of the problem. In the meantime, there are a couple of things that come to mind when good husbands turn immature.

First, I'm wondering if your husband might be experiencing some depression - he sounds pretty checked-out. The promises might be a way to just get you off his back for a while but it's only making things worse. He sounds like he is feeling "entitled" to not having any responsibility at home. Kind of like saying "I work all day to feed this family and all I have to show for it is (fill in the blank ) a messy house, no time to myself, no sex and a wife on my case every time I come in the door." Feeling entitled to some compensation etc. is usually at the root of every conflict. We either ask for it directly or we go about it passively. In the end, we may get compensation but we're still left with conflict.

You might find some help in the Parenting with Love and Logic books by Foster Cline and Jim Fay. It's all about giving someone the responsibility for their own promises and actions and learning there are natural consequences to not following through. I know it's for kids and teens but that's kind of what you have on your hands isnt it? That's where the loss of respect comes from.

I've had to do that with my husband. He spends a LOT of time riding his bicycle and we fought about it every summer. The sad thing about it was that I supported him riding his bike. I just got tired of having 3 kids and no husband and he was obviously tired of having 2 mothers and no wife.

I told him that I really did appreciate the fact that he works hard all day but that I was exhausted having to take up the slack for all the things he wasnt getting done. I was getting more and more bitter every day and that's not what I signed up for. I used some dumb cycling word picture like "you need to choose, either help me drive this train or walk behind it" He understood what I meant so maybe it wasnt so dumb after all. (btw the "train" is the peloton - the people at front set the pace - those who cant keep up, get dropped off the back of the group)

We started small and truthfully he got annoyed sometimes when I followed through on natural consequences like hiring a handyman for projects he promised to do but didnt follow through on and then taking the money out of his bike budget. Ouch. Even though he was really annoyed, I just made some sensei joke like "you chose poorly, young Bhike Rhidah" Instead of giving him verbal reminders that sounded like I was nagging, I set up appointments for him in Windows Calendar that would remind him when he agreed to have things done. He gets a little popup on his computer that says "reminder: April 3. Fertilize lawn"

I also reward him for good behavior. The whole thing was reinforced because we weren't fighting all the time and in the middle of all this competition. His attitude improved just by not feeling like he was in trouble all the time. That helped my attitude as well and I didnt find myself as resentful doing some of the things I felt "entitled" to have him do for me before.

There is light at the end of the tunnel J.. Right now, my husband is upstairs giving my 2 little guys a bath while I write this. I didnt ask him to do it, it wasnt a reminder on his computer - he stepped up. I think part of the reason he's up there is that he feels good about a conversation we had yesterday. He told me a race he wanted to ride in was rescheduled for tomorrow (Easter) and he wanted to ride. Would I mind if we went to church on Sat. night? Now that I'm more freed up - I said sure but is there a race you can do in the afternoon so we can have a fun morning with the boys? done.

It will take some work but I'm sure that with a lot of love and patience your loving man-boy will come around.

Best of all things to you.

I have been through exactly that with my EX husband.When our daughter was 6 months old i left. I lived with my parents for a few years but realized even living with them i was so much happier without him. i now have 2 boys ages 3 and 1 a 5 year old step son and my daughter is 7 with my new husband and i am so happy! he is supportive and my best friend. my ex sees my daughter everyother weekend and pays support. leaving was the best thing i could have done. i never dreamed i could be so happy after my ex. i didnt know that this existed. i dont think counceling will work for you he may be just a loser that dosnt want to change. but there is light at the end of the tunnel. you just have to find it yourself. and NEVER EVER settle for second best!

I had a husband I had ZERO respect for too. I am now divorced. It was hard for me to even look at him, every time I did, I just screamed LOSER in my head. I have no words for how you can get past this, sorry. I learned one thing, you can't change him, he is what he is. I had to get out for my own sanity. I couldn't live with the anger and resentment anymore. I didn't think it was fair to either of us, and I hated that my kids where living in a hostile environment. Counseling didn't do much for me, I was in it for 7 of the 8 yrs we were married.
Sorry to offer no encouragement. I've been there and I know how sad you must be.

I'd be interested to know what the wonderful things are: Does he financially support the family? That's a big one. The divide in our household has always been this (esp. when the kids were young): he made the income, I did everything else. And I mean everything. It was worth it so that I could stay home with the kids. Now that the kids are older and we're not so exhausted, he does more around the house.

Here's a really positive thing, and Sandra Bullock's recent events have made me really try to appreciate this: I know I can count on my husband to always be faithful and true. Do you have one of those?

You do sound very frustrated and disappointed. The only thing I can suggest is to decide "are you better off with him or without him?"

You could both go to counseling, it help me and my husband about 27 years ago.. We did not think it was helping and even told the counselor we had decided to divorce.. then we went outside and started planning the break up and realized we had gotten it back together. Gave it another try and now we have been married almost 30 years.. (Yes, I am shocked with us too)..

Remember you cannot really change him, He would have to be the one willing to do that, but you can change what you are willing to put up with, if he is worth it, you can , if not.. that is your decision.

I am sending you strength and clarity.

I am very sad for you. Do the kids sense that anything is wrong? At least try to save your marriage but if you really feel that you will not be happy, then I would not stay with him. Sure your kids will be hurt at first but if you fight all the time , that is not a good environment for your kids to live in. I am speaking as a child of divorced parents. Sure I was really sad but it was a relief not to have my parents fighting around us anymore. Good luck and I wish the best for you.

Old adage change what you can, have peace with what you can't change applies here. In short, SAVE YOURSELF, do what YOU need to be the best and happiest YOU, do what makes you a better MOM, do what brings YOU peace, sigh, I know easier said than done.....I'm sorry for what your going through, I tink we've ALL been there........but when MAMA ain't happy, ain't NOBODY happy!

Is he a good dad? If nothing else, that is something.

My heart goes out to you . . . hoping that things turn around soon. If it were me I would get into counseling asap - especially since you have children together.

Good luck - thinking about you.

I echo one of the posts below about being specific about what needs to be done. Divide up the bills - he pays half, you pay half. (Or, just set them up on auto pay via the internet. You don't even have to worry about it then!) If he's got the electric and it gets turned off because he doesn't pay them, well... he'll learn a good lesson. Get a house cleaner, if you can afford one. I find its easiest for my husband to have a full task that is his resposibility. My husband does all the grocery shopping because I hate it, and he doesn't mind. I buy all the kids clothes, because I enjoy that.

Sit down with him and tell him you need help, period. Ask him what he would like to do, but be prepared with things that you'd like him to do. Play the "save me" card -- although this sounds stereotypical, men really thrive when they are the protectors and "heroes." Then, once he has his tasks, you have to leave him alone. You can't criticize him or micromanage him. This is the hardest part.

I think its easeir for men to be "lazy" around the house. They are just naturally able to take their own relaxation time. Let's face it: most house maintenance stuff is no fun, I don't want to do it either! If I could, I'd hire someone to do all the work, put my feet up and read a book!

I wish you all the best.

If deep down inside you want it to work, then I would encourage counseling. Since you are already pretty much doing everthing now, if you are ready to move on with your life without him I think you will be just fine!

A wake up call is the way. Let your hubby read your post. When a man realizes that you have shared your concern with other people, he takes it more seriously. Men shut their ears once they hear you repeating your same concerns, it's automatic. Just hand him the post when there is no tension at that moment and wait for a response. If he asys nothing or worse does nothing, Plan B, counseling for you to get a handle on your situation.

I to am in the same area as u.. But i am still trying to get myself to where i can move out and surive on my own with the kids.. If u have talked and something have gotten better and something havent then it might be to late for any outside help.. But if u are willing to try then try.. But he has to be willing to change also.. best of luck

Hi, J.:

If there is any alcoholism in a family member or friend, contact your local Al-Anon Family Group in your area.

Check out Co-Dependents Anonymous or www.coda.org

and contact a facilitator for a family group decision making conference at
###-###-####

Or a family mediator in your local mediation center.

Good luck. D.

tell him counseling or goodby

Ah, the curse of the independent woman. Every strong self reliant woman I know has found herself more than once in relationships where the man turns out to need taking care of. Every "less than accomplished-(I dont' wanna say "bimbo") type woman I know has a wonderful caretaker of a man and no worries or responsibilities. It's like, the universe knew they could never support themselves, so it gave them good men, and for all the ladies with brains who have been busting their humps, they get men to drag them down. WHY?
I know this a generalization and some brilliant women have fabulous men, and not all bimbos have princes, but it's seriously not uncommon, and often the brilliant strong men are hubby #2 or #3 for the smarties after having a loser the first time around.

I hear your point that your husband is a wonderful friend and guy in many ways and not a loser. That said, you were probably too busy holding up your end of things and being yourself to notice that he wasn't doing a whole lot work/responsibility wise. It's pretty rare for a guy who keeps his word, takes charge from the start, is doing lots and lots of work and is motivated to support a woman and do tasks, suddenly quits after marriage. He's probably always been this way, and you were taking care of yourself and became his good buddy and fell in love not noticing the "long haul" substance issues.
Women naturally lose affection for weaker men who offer no security -as in words that become actions which can be trusted-over time. It's natural as we all need to be cared for in our old age-these problems will only get worse as you lose your own strength. You're sick of doing everything yourself for everyone now-you're not going to feel any better about it in 20 years.

Definitely do counseling and assess the truth about whether he can step up to the plate. If he can, your affection will return. If your first impulse is to want to stay with him, do lots of nice things for him (I know, you always do), don't bruise his ego-I know it seems impossible-but make yourself even BETTER and build him up to see if he reacts to that as well as counseling etc. Build the best scenario you can on your own end, so that you can see how truly impossible he is or isn't. If things have been all fighting and disappointment lately, he may be at a low too-even though he caused it. Now he's feeling like YOU'RE the drag. Get up on the high road one last time and assess your project, you may improve things A LOT.

However, it is almost impossible for men to change. Especially ones who are used to saying what women want to hear to shut them up and then doing nothing. Be ready to make a change after a lot of work and possibly move forward into your life with him as a friend and father to the kids-not husband. Take your time. You're not trapped. Your strength and independence will serve yo in whatever you have to do. Good luck! I hope the best for you!

Is it possible that he is so use to having you take care of everything that he has become dependent on you. It sounds like you two need to reconnect with each other. If you do all the planning for socializing with friends, then maybe start planning some date nights with just the two of you. It will not solve all your problems but it is a start. Let's face it, if a man has a woman that is going to take care of everything, they are going to let you take care of everything. Sometimes when I want my husband to do a project in the house, I start it myself (even though I have no clue what I am doing :) He will usually take over the project to "save the day". I know it is childish and game playing, but lets face it.......men are more willing to help if they think they are the hero.

Not sure if this will help but reading the "5 love languages" by Chapman helped me a lot. Best of luck, I feel your pain. I hope you can find your love again. M.

Hi J.. I think every marriage goes through this at some point or another. The only thing you can do is work through it. Sure get some counseling...even if you have to go it alone. Find someone to vent to and slowly start to quit doing EVERYTHING! Most women do find themselves responsible for more that the lion share of children, home, bills...I'm not sure why we do that to ourselves and we shouldn't but frankly I think we have better organizational and multi-tasking abilities than men do. When you talk to your husband about what is bothering you do it before you are really upset. Try to find a time when you are calm and present your feelings and agravations to him in a "professional" way. When you are calm and logical and as unemotional as possible guys seem to listen better and get more from the conversation. Take baby steps, focus on the reasons why you married him and love him and know that if you stay strong you will get through this. After almost 20 years of marriage we still go through times like these...but we work though them faster each time...we aren't perfact yet, but hey...what fun would perfact be anyway?? Best wishes...and feel free to message me to vent anytime!! :-)

I have totally been in your shoes. My husband turned out to be not the man I married. If that makes sense. He drank his way into becoming Dr. Jekyl & Mr Hyde. I never knew who he was going to be on any given day. Nobody should live the way I did. Finally, when we were told that my father was dying of cancer, he was the most UNsupportive person in my life. I didn't want him near me at the funereal.. I now am raising our two daughters on my own. He only see them about 20-25 hours a month, not week. This is so stressful and difficult. Trying to run my business and having to raise 2 girls, who are 10 months apart! We tried counseling too but he was so unreasonable. I just couldn't go on like that. It is difficult by myself but it's so much better without him. Maybe I wasn't encourage or maybe I was. Make the right decision for YOU!