I'm worried about the choice of obstetrician a friend of mine has made. I know some will immediately say--stay out of it. I will feel tremendously guilty if I keep quiet and she ends up like many of the women in this rural area that end up having an unnecessary c-sections. We live in a rural area with limited obstetrician options and thjs friend chose hers because the ob is female and on her insurance plan. I have a doula friend who has seen firsthand the way women in this area, especially those who want minimal intervention, are treated during labor. Her experience with this ob is not just through hearsay, she has been there for deliveries with the ob and has heard stories from other women. This ob also will "talk the talk" and make herself sound more middle ground and open to less intervention but when push comes to shove she tends to bully women in the delivery room. I thought the practice I had picked for my first child was pretty reasonable but they did the same thing--tell you one thing, try to allay your fears and then bully you unnecessarily in the delivery room.
Because of this, I fear she doesn't truly understand what she will be getting from this ob, especially if things don't go according to the ob's plan (not going too far over the due date, water breaking in a timely manner, not progressing quickly enough etc etc). When she first told me of her choice I kept quiet because frankly in this area the options are scant anyway so I didn't have a better reference. I have found an ob about an hour away, where this friend works actually, that are wonderful! Attentive, spent an hour with me and my husband at our first meeting, open to natural birth without pushing for interventions and my doula friend highly recommended them because she has attended births with them so she has seen their low rate of inductions and c-sections. How would you talk to a friend about something so personal? The other issue is this practice only has male doctors and she felt more comfortable with a female. I don't feel like I can keep quiet-we have another mutual friend who had this female ob and she expressed doubt to me about the kind of care our friend would get. Should we talk to her together?
Clarification:
While I'm not a fan of epidurals as a matter of course and especially very early in labor, that is not such a huge deal to me. My concern is the pushing for inductions before a woman truly would need it or the baby's condition would merit it. This induction craze can often lead to c-sections that would not have been needed in the first place. She has expressed that she would like a vaginal birth and doesn't want a c-section (I don't know a whole lot of women that would elect a c-section the first time around....) I'm not trying to push a pain med free birth to her--I don't know how she feels about getting an epidural but that would be fine with the doctor i'm seeing. My other friend is not into natural birth but has her reservations about this doctor as well. Thanks for the perspective!
Thanks for your help ladies! I appreciated the perspective from those of you who respectfully stated your disagreement with me and who understood why I would even want to step in here. Here's what happened: I put off talking to her about it because I was waiting to talk with my doula friend about her exact , direct firsthand experiences in the delivery room with this doctor. I wanted to tell my friend more than the usual hearsay and gossip that often happens in rural areas like this. Well we were together at a small get together, my husband and I, her husband and her (C.), and our other friend( M.) who had this OB for a planned C-section and her husband. My friend brought up the topic about her impending birth and she expressed her desire to forego the epidural and how her husband was not buying the idea and didn't think she could do it. That led to some spirited discussion from us ladies to her husband where both me and the other friend (who had an "emergency" c-section with her first, leading to her second c-section) both explaining why going without the epidural was not about "toughing it out". M explained how since her first birth she slowly came to realize how the pressure to induce before she believed it was medically necessary, followed by an epidural, stalled her labor and eventually led to the c-section. I explained how getting the epidural way early prohibits women in this area from other forms of pain relief (water tub, walking around, changing positions freely, intermittent fetal monitoring) because hospital policy dictates these things. No such thing as walking epidural around here. It opened her husband's eyes and I could tell C. felt relieved see her husband's change in reaction.
Fast forward later in the evening and we were chatting about her experience with her doctor so far. Her husband apparently is not on board with keeping this doctor because he has heard straight from other women that had her and did not like her. C. seems like she doesn't want to change care this late in the game (entering 3rd trimester). My husband and I related more of our story with my husband strongly stating his opinions about the OBs in this area. I think he actually freaked them out a bit which wasn't my intention and I tried to pull back some and just chat with them about what they wanted and how much of this they had communicated to their doctor about some of their expectations about birth. Come to find out, C. had not even discussed a birth plan with the OB, had not made a birth plan and was ambivalent about it so she would feel like she had to stick to the plan and if something different happened then she'd be disappointed. C. was interested in a water birth not just laboring in the tub and I informed her that at this hospital being in the tub was prohibited once your water had broken and if they wanted to keep you on the monitor longer the tub was not an option.
To sum it up, I am so glad we had this discussion, even if it was at a small party with the men about. Partners have to be on the same page and to have your husband doubting your ability to handle the pain and expressing the desire to not be in the delivery room isn't the best situation. Having my husband basically tell him to man up because he need to be her advocate while she is trying to birth their child was an eye opener. As I feared C. was kind of avoiding the realities of what was going to happen by not discussing birth options with her OB early on. So yeah they are probably a little overwhelmed with it all but hopefully that will spur them into action, especially if she continues with her decision to avoid an epidural. They asked for extra info and I also let her know that since she is set on a female OB there is a practice that has just hired a few female OBs she could check out if she did not feel comfortable with hers. Lastly I said it was about trust and your gut instinct. If you don't feel really comfortable with the OB and you doubt how supportive they will be about medical interventions when the real thing happens if something genuinely goes wrong and a medical intervention is necessary you might not believe them! If you trust them then you are far more likely to be content with your birth experience even if you end up having a c-section. Thanks again for the diff. perspectives!
Just give her the information you've heard, and then respect her choice.
Say, "just wanted to let you know, this is what I've heard about this doctor..."
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I wouldn't say anything from the standpoint of "You should...." Just ask her if she's been happy with the OB so far and tell her you love yours if she ever wants to change. I would stay out of it for the most part. If this is her first, she has enough to worry about, and while I think SO many c-sections performed in this nation are unnecessary, it's not the end of the world if that happens. Since no one knows what kind of labor she'll have -it's not like she's guaranteed a c-section. IF this was a problem where people had been mistreated or something like malpractice had happened, it would be different, but just because it seems her doctor is c-section happy doesn't mean she won't be happy with her experience.
You, and the Doula, are not qualified to judge the choices of the OB in the delivery room. Sorry. What might be judges as bullying could in fact be the OB insisting on what she believes to be medically necessary. But that being said if it were my friend I would not hesitate to say that your doula told you that her doctor seems to have an unusually high rate of c-sections and that she knew of one that seemed to have less if she was interested. I don't think it is THAT personal of a decision really. Unless your friend is extremely sensitive I wouldn't worry about it. But make sure to let it go at that. If she does decide to use her first choice don't say another word about it.
It sounds like your concerns are truly coming from your heart and wanting her to have a positive experience. What a thoughtful and sweet friend you are!
When that is the motivation, then I vote for gently approaching her with the information you have gained from others. It sounds early enough in the pregnancy where she could make switch if she wanted to. And that's the part you have to be prepared to accept. She might decide to stay on with C-section happy MD. Also for most couples, insurance coverage trumps any other birth option. What does your doula friend cost in comparison?
I think providing the financial facts for comparison would be very helpful. Also, have you googled the the MD website where people leave their honest feedback? There might be some negative stories told on those MD web search sites that would help persuade her to what you are thinking.
Even though she is her first pregnancy, don't underestimate the importance of your friendship and experience. Just explain your preferences respectfully, but YOU ned to respect her choice too.
oh, i think it's fine to share your perspective with your friend, so long as you do so in a low-key non-pushy manner. i expect my friends to share their experiences and opinions with me! so long as you genuinely do not shove, or get upset if she chooses something other than you advise, i think it's what friends should do.
khairete
S.
By telling her your opinion you are insinuating that she can't make grown up decisions and you could easily offend her. I would refrain from telling her, because you do not have first hand experience, only hearsay.
I am actually in a similar situation. I have a friend who is already being bullied by her OB (she's not due for 3 more months), and her doctor has also kept secrets from her about her pregnancy. Really bad stuff. I'm not local and I can't recommend anyone else to her, but what she tells me makes me very nervous. But when I tell her she needs to be able to trust her doctor, she says yeah, but it isn't worth the hassle. Do I agree? No. But it's ultimately her decision, and if I keep picking, I'll just estrange myself.
Absolutely you can tell her you have heard bad things about the OB she's selected and that you have one you really like. Do NOT do an "intervention" style where you both confront her. That sounds a lot like bullying, too. Offer to introduce her to your Doula friend, who has personal experience, but she may not be interested. Offer to go with her to a new OB if she would like or to help her switch if she's interested. However, if she tells you she's fine, to butt out, etc., then do so. And if she ends up having a C-Section, don't say "I told you so." Births don't always go as planned, even with the perfect OB or doula, and for all you know, your friend really will need a C-Section.
For the record, my first birth had a lot less intervention than my second - and the second went a lot smoother. With my second, I was induced and had an epidural, and it went quickly and I tore less. I think the key is less about how much intervention you have and more about being in control of your own delivery. So if your friend doesn't want to switch OBs, instead of lecturing her about inductions or her choices, you two might do research about different aspects of labor together and discuss what choices she would want to make if each situation arose. Good luck.
Do you know the national rate of C-section is one-third? Is your friend's OB higher than that? Yes some c-section are not needed. If the baby is at risk and needs to get out quick I would rather have an OB that has had preform lots of c-section there to take care of my baby. If she listens to you and something happens to the baby. You could never live with yourself. Stay out of it. Moms know what is best for their own babies.
You and the doula sound like you're just repeating gossip and hearsay. You personally don't have first-hand experience. You're just passing on what someone else said and so on. If you had a personal experience with this doctor, then I think your opinion would be valid. If not, then it's not.
Tell your friend what you have heard and then leave it alone--don't make her feel she is being forced into your choice. Has your friend expressed to you that she wants a natural birth? Some women don't--myself included--and maybe she had her own reasons for picking this ob. Don't just assume your friend has not done her own research or that she wants the same birth that you do. Maybe she is afraid to tell you what she really thinks, you seem a bit hardcore about what you perceive as a good birth experience. Be careful--or you will be the one bullying your friend, not the doctor.
you could just tell her you found this awesome OB near her work. I dont think that's unreasonable. When you're pregnant, people are always telling you their birth horror stories, so letting her know about the bullying and whatnot doesnt seem unreasonable to me. I mean, I'm not sure how good of friends you are, but when I was pg, people I barely knew were telling me all about their experiences, so I dont see why you wouldnt want to talk to your friend about this. You could always just not push it if she doesnt want to talk about it.
Is this OB near the hospital where your friend wants to give birth? I know when I was pregnant, having an OB near work instead of home would have been more convenient, but it wouldnt have allowed me to deliver at the hospital I wanted with my doctor.
Every one's pregnancy and birth expectations are different. So too are people's reactions and impressions of other people. Perhaps she will think this OB is great and you will be perplexed where she come up with this impression but both of your experiences can be valid and true.
Simply be a friend. Inquire about her pregnancy. Offer advice when asked and offer it as diplomatically and factually as possible. If she clearly says something like, "I asked the doctor about XYZ but I am not sure he really heard what I was saying." then you can try to dig deeper and ask her if she had ever considered switching doctors.
For the record, by month 8 a c was looking really good to me and I finally got on after several exhausting days of labor at 11 days late. Wish I could have just signed up for one on my due date. What I do not appreciate is any medical decision being co-opted by the medical industry. If a women requests a c and it is medically reasonable why should a doctor be able to say No? I am perfectly capable of making my own medical decisions.
If she is happy and content with her OB, stay out of it. She should feel confident in her Dr. and if she does, then she has what she needs. If she is concerned, or is considering leaving her OB, suggest yours. Other then that, this is her experience. It will fold out in whatever way it does and that's her choice only to make.
I think you should stay out of it unless she asks your opinion. Personally, I want no part of natural child birth even though some people feel the need to shove it down my throat. Epidurals speed my birth up, not slow it down. And I begged for an induction because I was so uncomfortable and I was glad that my OB was one of the ones that would give it to me and not make me wait (and I did NOT need a c section after the induction). Every women's choice of her OB is her personal choice. Unless this doc has caused bodily harm, leave it alone. BTW- my supervisor hates my doctor and I love him--to each her own.
You are one great friend!
I would absolutely talk to your friend about this information you know about her chosen OB... I'd also include the other friend who had the same OB in the past as part of your conversation.
Some women go in desiring a cesarean - because to them it's easier - but most do not know how much more deadly it is to both Mother and baby to have a cesarean. Go in with current facts about the rates of cesareans in America - 1 in 3 births are cesareans!!
A great movie is "Business of Being Born" by Rikki Lake and her friend. Have her check out the website http://www.ican-online.org/ - - it's about survivors of cesarean, most were unnecessary.
I would say don't talk to her together, that could be overwhelming and this is a pregnant person you are dealing with! It is so hard to find Dr.s that are not pushy with induction, pitocin the whole deal I know!! I think it would be great to get some written literature from your OB or give her the website. I think if you just told her something like "Hey, I found this great OB close to where you work. They are so awesome, support a woman leading her birth experience and won't push unnecessary induction. Check it out!" And then leave it at that. I have friends that do many things I don't think are the best in regard to bc, l & d, etc and you have to really watch how much you say. Heck, I am all for the natural way and ended up with two inductions myself!! Go figure! Thankfully I was able to deliver my babies naturally, but the induction part stinks! I would just tread carefully, give her the info and then leave it, it is her decision ultimately. Good luck!! :D
Hello Mommyprovider,
I would talk to her, but maybe about what type of birth she is interested in having. THEN, if it doesn't fit with what that doctor tends to do, give her some info about the doctor that you know to be true.
Your list of women that you know who opted for a c-section the first time around just grew by one - I chose the c-section when I first found out I was pregnant. I was NOT going to go through hours and hours of labor with a needle catheter in my spinal cord...and have the possibility of needing a c-section anyway...no way!! Just the thought of an epidural makes me lightheaded. I got a quick spinal to get numbed up, had the surgery, and 45 minutes later was put back together, holding my newborn.
The reason I shared this was because many women thought I was crazy - especially women who had terrible experiences with c-sections, or wonderful laboring experiences. I got tired of explaining my decision to every mom who looked at me like I was crazy. It is my body/pregnancy, and my decisions have nothing to do with anyone else's opinions.
Maybe your friend feels this way too. Maybe your friend knows about this doctor and is okay with it...or...maybe not.
It cannot hurt to give her the info to help her make an informed decision. But I don't think that trying to persuade her to go somewhere else is a good idea. You don't want her to start second guessing her decisions, especially when she is about to become a mother.
If the doctor's practices were THAT bad, she wouldn't be in practice at all.
Good luck and don't worry,
L.
I would maybe sit down with her once, and tell her what you heard, and than leave it at that. It is her choice if she wants to switch, not yours. So tell her your story and than never mention it again. If this OB tries to get her to have an early induction, all she has to say is no. She is still the one in control. When I had my babies I did not get to choose who I saw, or who birthed me (military hospital overseas), so I learned to be my own advocate to get what I wanted and needed from my birthing experience, have faith your friend can do the same for herself.
I would stay out of it. It sounds like you do not have first hand experience with the Dr. If this Dr. were to hear how she is being slandered, you could run into trouble yourself. You just don't go judging a Dr.'s decision because you don't approve and/or hearsay.
You sound like a good friend who cares but your friend needs to make her own decisions and not have anything pushed upon her.
I will never forget the fight and ordeal I had to go through to get the BF league to leave me alone. It stopped just short of having security intervene. NO new mom needs that type of behavior shown toward her...no matter what any particular belief is.
I would resent somone pushing advice on my choices, as I did with the BF league at our hospital. Every new mom has her own reasons for making the decisions she makes and she should be respected for that... it is another story if she asks your opinion/advice.
Good luck
If you and I were friends, I would want you to share this information with me so I would be better able to make an informed choice. By the same token, once I have received the information, if it appears that I haven't had a chance to process it or I just have a different point of view, I would not want you to get pushy with me on the topic.
Share the information, let your friend know that you are there to answer whatever questions that she may have or give her your doula friend's telephone number, and then leave it at that. Your friend may or may not be open to receiving this information and she may or may not be willing to change to another OB/Gyn who is more parent-friendly in the delivery room, but the best you can do is share what you know to be true and allow her to make up her own mind.
I do think I would want to know about other people's experiences with my doctor but I would want to be able to make up my own mind and make my own decisions about such a personal matter.
Best of luck.
You should show her what you just wrote. She should be interested in the view of the doulas. All she needs to know is that there is a possibility she will be pushed into a c-section and/or induction and if she doesn't want that, to be prepared to speak up.
My rural doctor was very pro "natural" with no drugs, which was what I wanted to do anyway, but he did push me into an induction (which I refused) but then during labor he broke my water when labor wasn't "going fast enough for him" I hadn't been warned about this, so I believed him that it was necessary. Of course it escalated my pain to triple and I practically went into shock. The nurse told me after he went out of the room that she hated how he always told ladies to get their water broken.
For delivery #2, I said no to induction, no to membrane scraping and no to water breaking, etc, no to epidural again, but I did do a pain reliever for a bit (nubane?) since the radical pain of the first delivery was not something I wanted to repeat and luckily the labor was fast that time.
#3 was an emergency c-section racing to the hospital bleeding profusely and all bets were off.
Just make sure she is well informed and prepared to be as assertive as the doctors. Many of my friends had c sections in city hospitals which made every "medical" excuse in the book, but they really had limited space and time to let thousands of women go into labor naturally. Having had a c-section, I can't BELIEVE people choose it, the recovery is like being in a car wreck, but thank goodness she's doing this at a hospital-that c section saved my daughter's life.
Staying out of it is probably the best answer, but here's an idea for you. I would invite her over for a girl's night and suggest watching Rikki Lake's documentary "The Business of Being Born." It is a fascinating video about the birthing industry. Definitely pro-home/natural birth, but gives the other side as best they can. It really encourages the mother-to-be to get educated and understand the process and her rights.
My first child was born in the hospital with an epidural, but vaginally. The second was naturally in the hospital with no drugs. Loved the no drugs alternative. It was amazing! But definitely not for everyone, especially with the first child.
Anyway, the video may be a good jumping off point for your conversation, or it may make it clear that your friend is not interested in what you have to say. I would bring it up once, then leave it up to her. Don't push and don't persist. All you can do is provide some useful information. Good luck and interested to hear how it turns out!
never settle for second best when it comes to someone delivering your baby, the man who delivered my baby was the one who put it there to begin with. if your doctor refuses to listen you about how you want to deliver your baby, now, he damn sure isnt going to listen to you when you are sweating like a horse and screaming during labor.sit down with your friend and discuss with her what her options are, and your birth experience, if you are getting a bad vibe off of this doctor, change doctors, there is no law (YET), that says you have to stay with a doctor you dont feel comfortable with. our baby was born in our apartment bathroom, no drugs, no fancy doctors dictating how he wants the baby delivered, just me, my other half, our baby and some very shocked emts who were called after the baby decided that she was not going to wait
K. h.
bottom line, never stay with an obgyn who is trying to bully or scare you into medically unneeded testing. when i refused unneeded testing by my obgyn, he claimed in writing that i was retarded with very limited comprehension skills, dont let this happen to your friend. by the way, my obgyn was dr hyde with va. physcians for women at johnston willis hospital
I'm weighing my words carefully for this.
I read through all the postings today, and both surprised and not at responses. If your instinct tells you to share information,by all means share it as you have mentioned in your posting.
I know the area where you live. Many posters here live in other states and have no idea of what it's like in that rural area.
Yes I'm in the birth field. And yes OB's are trained as surgeons. They have soaring high malpractice rates, and are scared to death of getting sued. The insurance companies have more power year by year to dictate directives. Most, I said most OB's do NOT practice evidence based medicine when it comes to birth. They are taught to medically manage labor. Many postings speak about the doula's agenda and that only the OB knows about what is really happening with women in labor. Do they really know your doula friend and what she has witnessed, prob. not! I helped women in the birth room for over 9 yrs. More and more pressure to have a C section. That does mean major abdominal surgery, increased rate of infection, increased chance of blood pressure issues for mom and baby, and more difficulty nursing.
When the doctor doesn't have any competition then it's even worse. Women OB's many times feel like they have something to prove.
Hope this perspective helps
My friends & I share experiences, opinions and new ideas with each other all the time about lots of things, some important, others not, some specifically related to a situation one or the other of us is experiencing. I feel greatful that I have friends who honor me with their caring concerns. I can use their information, research whatever the issue is, then make an informed decision. That decision may not be the same that the others would make, but that's not the point. What's right for one may not be for another, but how can we make informed decisions without information? I'm sure your friend will feel the same. Give yourself a pat on the back for being such a caring friend!
