Kids Refusing to Pick up Toys

this one is so easy. seriously. every toy that you pick up goes into a box in a basement. they have to earn it back.
if you have to pick it up 3 times, it gets donated.
there's just no reason to keep fighting this particular battle.
khairete
S.

At 3 and 4 - you are only just getting started!
It could be that 1/4 of their toys is still too large an amount and it overwhelms them.
Try only having a very few of their things out and rotate those.
Getting them to pick up after themselves is going to be a work in progress for YEARS.
Be patient with them!

I am with nearly everyone else, you don't move on until the last activity is cleaned up. Don't buy into the, but I am going to go back to it, argument.

Ya know, when kids listen to others and not you, it is you that is the problem, not the child.

First, I want to be clear, per your rather odd profile request:
I am not attacking you with my words.

What I will tell you is that you need to take parenting classes. Love and Logic would be a great start. It seems that you are flummoxed by some very basic parenting situations and that your interactions with your children are rooted in power struggles. Counseling may be necessary.

With my preschoolers, I always had the kids clean up before we moved on to the next activity. If a child didn't want to clean up, I told them they could sit in a chair/quiet space until they were ready to come take care of the mess.

1. I broke down tasks to make them simpler. "Let's drive the cars into this box. Okay, now, you two hand me the blocks and I will make them nice on the shelf. Great. Who remembers where the baby dolls go? Great-- now, what about their clothes?" etc. Going by like items-- and participating, is helpful.

2. I would have the kids bring the toys to me, sometimes. I would show them how shelves/playspaces can look 'beautiful' until they show their own mastery, and then we compliment the effort "wow, you really made it so nice in here" and notice how pleasant it is. "Now you will have room to play here after lunch."

I'm going to stop with any further suggestions because you really need to find resources and guidance to help you gain control of the kids.My guess is that a lot of this behavior is deeply learned, so you need help for your family to unlearn these bad habits. Otherwise this will only be worse.

Well, you can't just tell a couple preschoolers to pick up their toys and fully expect it to be done to your exacting specifications. You have to do it WITH them, you have to model it.

Also, if you make it into chore-like drudgery, forget it.

Me (bends over picks up a toy, tosses it in the toy box): Look, here's what you do, we need to clean up. Now you put (that other toy) in the box.

And so on.

They still need minute by minute prompting clearly. Believe it or not, at some point (if you stick with this routine) they WILL do it themselves.

Sure it's just as much work as doing it yourself, but either way you're parenting.

:)

ETA: Sorry to be so forward, but why did you have kids? You don't seem to like them very much. They're such a huge bother, aren't they?

They are only 3 and 4. I think you are expecting too much of them.

Either make it a game and help them, or do it yourself. As a friend said once, "3 (or 4) year olds don't make good maids."

Some I'm sure will be very insistent on teaching your child to pick up at a young age; for me this is a choose your battles moment. You could save yourself a lot of grief and annoyance if you just did it yourself. Look at all the misery this situation seems to be causing, not worth 10 mins. of picking up toys, imo. I picked up most of my kids toys, but they were on the honor roll in high school etc., and are thriving and self-sufficient as adults. Picking up their toys isn't crucial to their development.

In the scheme of things that matter, this doesn't. Try to create an environment in which you get to enjoy your kids, not be annoyed at them often. They are young for a blink of an eye.

I just did what they did at preschool. Before we move to the next activity we clean up this one.
So if they want to play outside, watch TV, have a snack, whatever they must pick up first.
It also helps not to have too many toys available at any given time as that can be overwhelming for young children. Box some of their toys up and rotate them in and out occasionally. It's like Christmas when the "new" toys come out!

They are still very young. There is a middle ground between you doing it yourself and them doing it themselves. At that age, I did it WITH them. And usually made a game of it. See who can put the most legos away in the next minute! Then, we all put legos into the bin as fast as we can, and count as we go, and whoever puts in the most WINS. Or, whoever can get 10 matchbox cars into the bin first WINS! (the prize is a high-five from me) Same method works for balls, stuffed animals, etc.

I now have the "Anything I have to pick up going into time out" rule. But my kids are 5 and 8 and they understand long term consequences. I think 3 and 4 is too young for this. At 3 and 4, they need immediate rewards.

We did it together while singing the clean up song (it goes - clean up, clean up, everybody clean up - learned it at daycare). If you make it fun, they will do it WITH you. Otherwise I think you are expecting too much.

I've read the comments and I've read your original post and your ETA. Your toy division system makes sense - if 1/4 of their toys is a reasonable amount and not 100 toys. I'm assuming the division of toys is somewhat logical too, so that various sets are not broken up to the point that they are rendered useless.
I think you need to define "special time" toys but maybe you have in your own mind and with the kids.

I don't understand at all what you mean when you say if you tell them they won't get lunch, they will not only skip lunch but also dinner and go to bed hungry. That's absurd. And they don't care if they have no toys? What happened when they lost them all? Surely they did something all day besides sit there. I think you must be getting too impatient to what it out or to let them have some consequences. I'm guessing you're showing your frustration, and you're getting up and either sweeping things away in anger or you are picking them up yourself because you can't wait for them. The kids know that they just have to sit there for a few minutes until you give up and give in. It might seem like an eternity to you because you are impatient to move on to the next activity or chore or errand.

You say that your child listens in school. So he's capable of doing this. There's something unclear in what you are saying, expecting, or doing. Do not put the child's hand on the object - the child is completely passive that way. Get him to pick it up. (Or, "Can you find the red truck?") Then: "good job. Now can you put it in the truck box?" then "Good job.")

You can't take away privileges at this age - you can't say "no TV tonight if you don't pick up toys now." Kids are "in the moment" and don't defer well at this age. So sit them down, look them in the eye, and CALMLY say what you want done. Not "clean up" (too vague) but "put the cars and trucks in the box with the car picture on it." Ask them what they want to do next, or comment on what you see them doing - they want to go out, or they want to get out the art supplies? Fine. Kid A: Put the cars in the car box. Kid B: Put the books in the book holder. That's all the do. Nothing else. When it's done, compliment them and let them do the desired activity. If they say, "I want to watch TV" (or whatever the activity is), your answer is, "I know you do. As soon as you….then you can watch." As others have said below.

Is your clean-up system obvious? Not to you, but to a 3 year old? If their toys are in a huge pile on the floor and they have to put them in a huge pile in a bucket or on a shelf, maybe they don't see the difference? I had a couple of buckets/bins. I put a picture of a car & a truck on one - that was for all the vehicles. I put a picture of a stuffed animal on another - so all animals went there. Do this for whatever categories they have the most of - could be action figures or building things like blocks and Legos. Either print a photo off the internet, or cut out the front of the box it came in, or take a photo yourself of the actual toys lined up, and post that photo on the bin. I had a divider from the office supply store on the shelf that allowed for books to be inserted so they didn't fall over - nothing is more frustrating to a small child than trying to put books away and have them slide and tip.

I think you may be asking/telling in too many different ways. There has to be one set of 2-3 commands/sentences every time. And you have to stick to it. What doesn't get picked up gets taken away. How do they get it back? By picking up what they have - in a simple and organized set of instructions, 1 at a time. If you take stuff away, how have they gotten it back in the past? Somewhere, you're giving in.

There is no child who will sit in an empty room and refuse food for hours on end. Somehow, there is something missing from this story - the children are getting some sort of a payoff for refusing. Find out what that is - it could be that you give up, or that you start cleaning yourself, or that you are just so efficient at picking up and pitching things where they go that the kids are overwhelmed by the frenzy. But there is a reason they don't have to mind you - so find that.

Please re-read Nervy Girl's excellent response. Also Amy J.'s.

Your expectations, considering your children's ages, are a bit too high. Are you able to back off and be more objective and check into some books that describe "ages and stages" of younger kids? Because at three and four, they are still needing not just your modeling -- which apparently they just watch, not yet getting that they're supposed to join in -- but they also need very specific, one or two step instructions. And if heaps of toys are out and you expect them to stick with picking them all up -- you need to be picking up alongside them and you will for a while to come yet.

If you say, "Pick up your toys," that is overwhelming to children these ages. They don't know where to begin, so they do nothing. Break this down. "Sally, pick up the teddy bear and put it in the blue bucket." One item, no more. And so on. Do not expect them to find this interesting beyond a couple of items. If they do a few items each, that's an achievement, for now. But general directions such as "pick up the toys" or even "pick up all the books" are too much. Pick up one specific item and put it one specific place. Some kids at three still have trouble following one-step directions, much less two-step directions (pick up X is one step, pick up X and put it in bucket is two step, etc.).

As for taking away a meal, that means nothing to a child who has never had a meal taken away. You describe trying lots of things from taking away lunch to time outs to taking away privileges. Trying many different things means that they don't know what the precise result will be if they don't do what they're supposed to do -- they haven't had one, consistent, unchanging consequence because (understandably) you've tried so many different ones. I'd pick a single consequence and use it only for flat-out refusal to try to pick anything up. I would not give the consequence for failing to pick up every single item by themselves. As people noted below, making them wait to do X until they each pick up toys is a good way to get their attention; taking away some privilege that comes later (such as "We won't go to X on Saturday if you don't pick up") doesn't click with young kids, but saying, "You can go to the park right after you pick up these three toys and put them here..." is immediate, and limited, and specifies that they have to do only, say, three toys. It's achievable in their minds, whereas directions like "Clean up" or "pick up all the toys" are not.

If there are so many toys out that three toys each would not make a dent, it's time to have less that 1/4 of the toys available to them, maybe.

So they are 3 and 4 and things are harder for them to grasp. I would start by having them go pick up toys after they are done. To point out "Tommy, go put your truck in the blue bin." Break it down and be reeaaally specific. I could not tell my DD when she was four to "clean up" because she'd be overwhelmed. So we broke it down.

Now, if that doesn't work, then you pick up the toys and put them in a bag. Put them in time out. If the children forget all about those toys, donate them. They have too many and those weren't special to them. Keep anything you think they'll regret, like a bear from Grandma, but get rid of the rest. When my SD gave my DD a ton of toys we went through and did "save for later" and "keep out for now". The save for laters have been in the attic for a year now, so they will soon just quietly go away.

I would not keep them from lunch if they don't clean up. It is apples and oranges. Make the consequence fit the crime. When my DD left her art supplies out and her crayons broke, I just simply said, "You were asked to put them in their bin. This is what happens, and no, you are not getting more."

If the relatives tend to buy a lot of toys, steer them toward things like outings and clothing for gifts instead.

If they empty their dresser, then they get to put it all back or they lose their clothes. If they get in the bathroom, put a lock on the cabinet and make them clean up their mess.

I suspect that the not cleaning up yet getting into other things may also be an ongoing problem of disrespect toward you. You might look at your overall discipline and consider a book like 1, 2, 3 magic to help.

Every kid has a thing. Try to find out what motivates each one. For my SS it was video games and money. For SD it was social time. For DD it's social time and TV. SD never cleaned her room faster than when she needed to do it to be able to go play.

Lots of great answers. I actually was a little bit confused the first time I read your post because I couldn't figure out what the issue was.

Is it about toys or your kids don't follow your direction in general?

It sounds like you have trouble with them listening to you and doing as you need them to do. So I'll focus on that.

At that age, kids don't always do what you want them to - and it also depends on their personalities. Some kids are very helpful early on (eager to please) others are just doing what they are focused on. Transition is hard for them.

Figure out what works best for your kids. If they are happily playing and you say "Ok clean up" they may not want to. I used to say "Ok everyone, we're going to finish up playing and clean up in 5 minutes". It's a warning system.

Then I'd make the move to start and everyone helped out. It would be a joint effort. Just as when I laid the table, one kid got the place mats at that age, one kid brought out the napkins ... mom did the heavy stuff ..

Group effort. More fun. Just stop all the different methods you're using and try a new approach.

When stuff isn't working, take a break. For a week ,two weeks. Reset.

I wouldn't tie it in with food, etc. It's just part of play. We tidy up.

I also at that age let them have an area where they could leave some toys out. They are into imagination and having fun at this stage - sometimes my kids would build a fort out of blocks. I left it up. If they had trains out - I left that up. It was in an area for toys, and they often wanted to go back to it later. Toys in living room, etc. got picked up when we were done.

You sound very frustrated. That's why I say give it a break.

I think really this isn't so much about toys as they aren't listening to you. Solid rules that never change, that your husband enforces also, is what you need to figure out - and then just enforce them. If they don't comply, they don't get to have fun with the family. So if one child picks up toys and the other doesn't, the helpful child gets a story (or to play with mom, or other fun thing), other child does not get it. So you're not punishing so much as rewarding the one that is helping. That works well here.

good luck :)

When my son was little he went to daycare. At the end of the day, all the toys were put up If you were waiting for your parents to pick you up, you could take out a toy or two to play with. But before you went home, you had to put it away or you could not play with any toys.

My son's room would be a mess before bed. I instituted the rule at home and he had to put all the toys away before bed or the next day there were not toys.

Perhaps you should remove the majority of the toys and books. They play with a little and then they can clean them up. Make it a rule and you enforce it with them picking up the toys and not you. If you pick them up they go away for a long while and there will be no toys to play with. If they don't care then donate the toys because they have too much.

Good luck. Your house you rules and mean what you say when you say what you mean. Follow through on any threats you make so they know you mean business.

the other S.

Designate 10 minute tidy time daily.
We sang & danced & always made it fun & not a big deal.

"Clean up, Clean up, everybody do their share.
Clean up, Clean up! Put this away it doesn't go there"!

How about disappearing the toys which were left out? You can control the toys in a way you can't control another person's behavior, and losing access to something is a very logical consequence for not taking care of it. The thing doesn't have to disappear forever, just for a long enough period of time so they realize that it was gone. I would suggest telling them beforehand that if they don't put away their things, it means that they don't care about them and therefore they will go away. Then, when they run off without putting them away (as they probably will because that's what they are used to doing and they can't imagine the toys will actually disappear), quietly gather them up and put them away someplace that they can't see them. I suggest keeping your storage place a secret, so they don't start trying to figure out how to get them down. When they miss them, explain that the toys went away for a while because they were not taken care of. Return them at night when you consider it appropriate, maybe when they have done at least some picking-up that day.

It's important to deliver your message in a neutral tone and without an air of anger or resentment. Make it very matter-of-fact to reduce the possible defiance response. Mamazita has some good points, too.

You will probably need to do this for a while until they get into the new habit of putting things away themselves. They are still really little and won't be able to do it easily for quite a few years yet. I do think that picking up with them will be a good transition, so you can model for them how to do it.

I used to use the "first-then" with my son at that age. "First you pick up your toys then "we can have lunch or whatever they wanted to do .. It sets up a routine, without really any work. Before you know it, it just will become a thing..

From your SWH, I find that you most likely suffer from some kind of OCD with this whole picking up toy business. I'd take a chill pill. Debrief, and start over. Engage, don't demand.

Children quickly see through manipulation games, like "Oh! Look how fun it is to clean up my toys!" They also see through your empty threats. They also know that they can have fun without their toys.

So, the solution rests in your resolved to dole out good old fashioned discipline, whether it be time outs, spanks, no food, whatever.

At three and four years old children are very well aware of what is expected of them and what they can get away with. Your success rests in your resolve to take control.

As an aside, if you've tried time outs and you're picking up their toys, there's a problem. Send them to time out UNTIL they pick up their toys. Take away their toys UNTIL they demonstrate they can and will clean them up. If there are no more toys, send them outside to the yard to play with rocks and dirt because that doesn't need cleaning up.

Well if they don't care if they have no toys at all then what's the problem? Just get rid of them and you won't have a mess to complain about anymore.

How about you can't take another toy or book until the first one you took is put away?

If they don't care about having toys then get rid of them. Seriously. They can learn to be responsible and respectful or they get nothing. My husband had our neighbors 4 year old yesterday and he isn't bad, but he isn't the most respectful child. He didn't leave a mess at all anywhere. If my kids left things out at that age they lost them. If they didn't care, it went to good will.

Just get rid of it all. Don't give up this battle or you'll be doing this when they are 13 and 14 and I can assure you it is less fun then.

In daycare, the kids were allowed access to only one toy at a time, which they had to put back before they were allowed access to another toy. My kid internalized that rule, and handles his things this way at home. He also takes off and puts away his shoes, bag and coat, and washes his hands as soon as he enters our apt. (thank you day care).

Just read your follow up. Since the take them all away, and if/then don't seem to be working you might try a time out for "not listening". Each of them are old enough for time outs. See if that helps. You say pick up your blocks and put them in the bin before the timer rings, otherwise you will do a time out. Have them repeat the instruction and the consequence. If they haven't so much as started when the timer goes off, put them in time out. A few cycles of this and you can be sure they will "listen" to your instruction more carefully (at least as concerns cleaning up).

Best,
F. B.

I haven't read all of the responses, I apologize if someone has already mentioned this, but here is what a teacher and a child psychologist told me to do when kids refuse to put things away. Get a timer that makes a ticking sound. Set it for 15 minutes. Teach them that those toys must be put away before that buzzard goes off. Make it a race and give praise and rewards. This was successful for me. I hope it works for you too.

Eta: Please don't put toys in a garbage bag like a poster suggests. Number one - they are too young to do this to. Number two: If they see the toys you "threw out", they will know you didn't mean it and they will just know that you blow hot air. Besides, it is CRUEL to threaten to throw kids' toys away.

Try this: one box for time-out toys. Tell them that if you have to pick up a toy, that you will put it in time out and they won't get to play with it. The only toys that they will get to play with are the ones they put away themselves.

The only way that toys come out of the closet or the basement is if they are actually picking up toys. Otherwise, those all stay in time out too.

It might take they having no toys for a while for them to come to the understanding that they have to actually do the work.

You said that you have played games with them. Are you telling them "pick up toys" generically, or are you saying "Jenny, you pick up the Barbie Dolls and Jessica, you pick up the tea set." Some children, especially this age, need very clear directions, one at a time. Telling them to clean up is too overwhelming.

Try that and see if it helps.

Thanks for adding the extra info. I think I get it now. They aren't helping and when you are there with them they refuse and they destroy any progress you are making. In this case, yes, I'd put a very small amount of toys out each day. 3-4 things. Then at clean up time I'd ask them to pick up the such and such and they will get a surprise. Incentive almost always works! Have a small goody on hand, maybe 1 tiny candy or a little part to an activity or toy or something you can do later with them. I know it's not good to reward with candy, but seriously it's a fast motivator and gets kids to enjoy clean up. It won't be long when they won't expect it and they will just have the cleaning thing all figured out. In the future it works wonders during tricky math problems too! They seem to be enjoying the negative reaction they are getting from you, so I'd stop that and just focus on positive responses and praise. Ignore the inappropriate behavior and it will go away faster. Other things we've done are races to see who can put away the most stuff. Or I do an eye-spy type of game to have them go find all the books and put those away first, then all the blocks, etc. They love it. If it's too overwhelming of a mess, I break it down and let them do fun things in between putting things away.

Earlier:
So if you said, "Put the toys in the basket and then we'll have our snack", what would they do? Sit there? What are they doing, still playing? I'm not quite following. If food isn't a motivator, make it outside time or a fun event away from the house. "Pick up your toys and then we'll go to the park." They are little, so you will have to show them how and make sure you have a few times a day when you are cleaning up as your daily routine. If you are in there with them, I'm not sure how they can avoid it. It sounds like you are expecting them to be 9 and 10 rather than 3 and 4.

Before you take this advice make sure you really think about how many toys are out, and if your children are capable of putting that much stuff away. The time limit I set worked for me but at the ages of your children it's probably too long. Mainly they need to know you mean what you say.
I gave my daughters 30 minutes to pick up all the toys.
What ever was still out would be thrown away, no matter how expensive or big it was.
30 minutes later I picked up the toys and put them in a big black garbage bag, put it in the garbage can, and it was gone on garbage day.
I never had the problem again.
Do your children know they can trust you at all times to keep your word?
This is huge.
Never make idle threats, and ALWAYS keep your word.
I got that advice from a minister and my daughters are wonderful people now.
They are both college graduates and have very successful careers and lives.
When my oldest daughter was 16 she said "I was so afraid of you when I was a kid"
I don't know if that's good or bad, but we love each other, respect each other, and I see my daughter implementing the same parenting skills I used on her with her 30 month old.
I'm friends with my daughters now, and they often seek my advice and praise me for the guidance I give them when they ask for it.
I've received a lot of praise for how well my daughters turned out, and I've been told again and again that I was a great parent, and my kids prove that.
I think being a good parent is very hard. It's tough to stick to your word, and so much easier to just ignore the behavior.
But your children pick up the tab for that.

They're pretty young, but they're old enough to follow directions if you say something simple like, "Put this book on this table" if it's on the floor and whatnot. It's easiest to keep the toys to FEW and easy to put away, and then coax each step. Kids that age can't really clean up a whole room, or remember to pick up on their own, but they can do each step at a time when asked. But you make it sound like they specifically refuse to pick up toys when you ask them too. In which case it's lumped in with general defiance, not necessarily toy pick-up.

Do they come when you call them? Do they stop doing stuff when you say so? Do they do other things when you tell them to? Then they will pick up toys too when directed in a manageable way. If not, use consequences like for any other thing, so they know you mean business.

If they ignore lots and lots of your directives, "Back to Basics Discipline by Janet Campbell Matson is simple, calm and effective for this age. They're too young to care about removing toys. That's for when they're older and attached to specific items and more conscious of going without something. Time outs are not effective for all kids. If they are being stubborn for you and not for their dad or other people, they don't take you seriously. Get the book.

When they want something say, not until you pick up your toys. This is what I do. Mom, I want a popsicle! Ok, sure...after you pick up those games you left out. Mom, can I watch a movie? Once you pick up the clothes on your floor and put them in the hamper then yes, you may. When my kids were little I would have to sit there and say, now pick up all the books, now pick up the stuffed animals, now pick up the tea set, now put away the blocks. If I just said, pick up all your toys they would be overwhelmed. I like idea of putting away one toy before being allowed to get out another one.

Go around your house with a garbage bag and put the toys in it. Once they see you putting that bag into the garbage they will learn to put their stuff away or it gets tossed.

My daughter (and step kids) would then race to pick up their stuff, they know it WILL get tossed and NOT replaced.

What about a sticker chart?
A smiley face for each day they "pick up" (I doubt you expect perfection from a 3 & 4 year old!)
5 smiley faces = an ice cream cone.

I rarely say this, but I think you have been given some really bad advice. Through away all the toys? Really? Then what does mom do with her sanity? They are three and four. I think picking up is not one of those cut and dry chores. I think its a really open ended and nebulous chore. At this age mine could put away silverware from the dishwasher and take out bathroom trash and replace liners, and fold small towels. But picking up was something I had to do along side them, directing every step of the way. I'd pick out like times and tell them to put all the stuffed animals in the bassinet etc..., or all the blocks back into the bag. I found tying things to rewards was the best method. Like "no cartoon shows" until we pick up. But sometimes, I had to put the kid in time-out for flat out refusal to help. They didn't really get good at it until age 5.
I get that day care kids operate differently, but my guess is that you don't put your kids in a room set up for preschoolers or herd your kids around all day monitoring if they are ready to move onto the next activity. The moms I know who did do that drove themselves nuts and put their kids in preschool programs. Your kids have freedom to roam around from room to room, and in our case in a terminate climate, from indoors to outdoors. And with that freedom comes exploration, and with that comes a mess.

Continue to direct them at clean up time. It doesn't hurt to withhold cartoons or a favorite snack until they tidy up (with you). (But I also would not withhold food, no one needs to deal with low blood sugar kids, thats just a punishment for the parent)

One of the wisest things I ever saw and FB was a diagram showing three things: Clean house, your kids happiness, and your sanity. Pick two. You get two.

First of all they are young. They need your guidance to know when to pick up toys. So if you pick up toys before dinner, than 30 minutes before dinner sing the clean up song, help direct them in cleaning up the toys, then off to potty and wash hands, then to dinner table.

If you just keep saying pick up toys, they will tune you out. You need a predictable routine - when you pick up toys, then.....also works well.

Sounds like one or two toys at a time is all they need. They can still play but if they lose them for not putting them up then they have nothing. That's easier on you for sure.

I give the kids a warning - whatever I have to pick up goes in the garbage. Then I do it. It only takes once for them to learn. I know you don't really want to throw them away, and maybe you can come up with a way to "bring them back" but if the kids catch on, you're sunk.