Gifted Exam Do U Prefer in 3Rd Grade or Middle School?

Hang in there Mama! I can't imagine raising triplets. Sounds overwhelming! I think sometimes responses on here sound harsher than the writer means because it is written and hard to catch the feeling behind it. Keep reaching out for support! Mothering is the hardest job on the planet.

I went back and looked at your previous posts about all kinds of things from behavioral and learning issues (PDD-NOS, autism, IEPs, math etc.) and I have to say I'm really confused about why you are now working so h*** o* placement in Honors classes for kids you are not sure are gifted or not. (Not sure what "AR" is - do you mean "AP"?).

I'm also concerned about the use of the word "try" - you want them to "try" for this new designation of Gifted/Talented, as if it's an admissions test or an SAT type of exam? There's so much stress around tests required for various admissions functions, when what you should be looking at is "evaluation" or "assessment". This is nothing that kids "TRY" for. And if your district is using the term "qualified" for a cluster, that's a problem.

I'm really rather bewildered by all the labeling and the insistence on more-more-more for kids. FYI my child has no labels, and he didn't test out of or into any programs. He never took AP classes until senior year when he took an AP computer science class - but it had no bearing on his college applications/acceptances. He got into a great school and did well. But as more and more colleges move AWAY from standardized testing as poor indicators of future success (or at least as they make an option of SAT vs. ACT), it seems counterproductive to go back to more and more testing of young kids to segregate them (call it clustering if you want, it's still separating them and labeling them).

I am far more concerned about the constant pressure on kids to be in "this" group or "that" group, and about the effect on kids who are not designated as G/T. I'm not sure it's a big indicator of future success. While no one wants a child to be left behind or segregated when he/she could have been mainstreamed, and no one wants a child to sit in a class where he/she is not challenged, putting pressure on a child to "try" to do well on an exam which is just an assessment of where they are at is as futile as asking a child to "try" to achieve a certain level on a height chart or eye exam.

I think it's much more important for you to work with teachers for assessments on your triplets in every area and to make sure they are appropriately engaged on a daily basis. You're already working on the IEP level, your last post had to do with math, and now you're pushing them on the G/T level. I honestly don't know if this is a good move at all.

ETA: after your response in your SWH, I think what I was picking up what what you said about parents bragging! I think that's one of the saddest things about many school systems - kids being pushed at age 5 to get into Harvard! The stress on kids is so strong, and it actually interferes with their learnings, because they hare pushed to learn in order to meet some outside standard instead of them being taught to their natural abilities. Creativity is stifled so they can prove something. It's hard not to get sucked into that. The other problem is that kids in the "gifted" section are told by their parents that they are special and superior, and that info permeates their social interactions. The same issue, raised by one responder, about how will one of your children feel if the siblings are in the GATE program applies even more to other kids in the class. If parents would keep their mouths shut, it would be one thing - but you're saying it's already a problem that they don't.

I'm suggesting that you look at the many problems that occur with helicopter parenting and kids getting into college who are unable to engage in critical thinking or accept any sort of mistakes or "failure". It's a massive problem for college professors and residence hall adjustment counselors. SO Consider what you are wishing for.

I suggest you ask your children's teachers if they recommend that your children take the test. I suggest that there are indicators for the possibility of fitting into the gifted program. Have you considered how your children will feel if they take the test and are not accepted in the program or if one triplet is and the others aren't? If there are no indicators that an advanced placement is likely then I suggest you not put your children in this stressful situation, especially when you can consider this again in two years.

After reading your previous posts. You thought your daughter might be autistic and now you go past the middle place and suggest she's gifted. I urge you to follow the school's lead. They are educators with experience. Her teacher would recognize whether or not she needs more advanced placement.

In a previous post you described a shy child with 2-3 friends. This is so normal. I suggest you stop looking for ways your children may be different and let them be children. It's good that the district tested your son and is providing services. I suggest school personnel did notice he needed help. They will do the same for your daughter if she shows signs she would benefit. So, stop pushing her to be advanced. Let your children be regular children.

I also suggest that unless she's extremely gifted putting her in an advanced placement this young will complicate her relationship with her brother and not necessarily beneficial to her given the way you describe their program. There is enough difference in their academic world already.

Do you have twins or triplets?

after your swh: I'm sorry my post felt judgmental to you. My 11 yo grandson is autistic. I'm very involved with him. He is in a special ed class. He's been thru many assessments and had/have several services. I go often with my daughter to his appointments.

I am approaching your question about the gifted program from my experience with my granddaughter's school where I was a volunteer. Teachers discuss the gifted program with parents and are part of the decision making process of whether or not to test. Remember, teachers have training and experience with children. Gifted children usually show their potential for giftedness before they take the test.

I also approach this decision from awareness of how much time and energy having an autistic child takes. Consider what will be most helpful for all 3 children given your limited time and energy. What isn't happening when you focus on diagnosing your daughter?

Every one of my kids would be considered gifted but I would never allow them in a gifted program. All four of my kids have ADHD one is also PDD NOS. What both those diagnosis mean is social issues.

So as I told the kids who went to college with me when they commented how jealous they were of my intelligence. Yeah, I do six hours of homework in one and then I spend those other five hours trying to appear to be just like you! What that means is the time we save because of our intelligence is better spent trying to learn to be socially normal. Even at 46 I am not what anyone would consider socially normal but I am close enough that I am generally happy.

So what I am saying is if any of your kids are gifted let it be! If school is easy for them they can spend that extra time reading something interesting or figuring out other humans.

Neither of my older kids were behind in college or life because I didn't push them into gifted classes and I am pretty sure the younger two will be the same.

I would go based your children's teachers recommendation. They spend all day with your kids, and are professional educators. They will know whether or not sitting for this test is worthwhile at this age.
And if you "suspect" one of your kids is autistic please get him/her in for an evaluation. Ask your pediatrician for a referral to whatever pediatric psychologist or psychiatrist does this kind of testing. Once you get a confirmed medical diagnosis you will have solid information to provide to the school.
And keep in mind that if your child is in fact autistic, AND gifted, that doesn't necessarily mean the GATE program will be a good fit. Kids in GATE tend to be more mature and independent, whereas autistic kids often need a lot more behavioral support, regardless of how bright they are.

Well, what is knowing going to do for you and your kids?
Our son was tested and found gifted in the 3rd grade.
That's all good and well but the gifted program was gutted due to budget cuts and it amount to next to nothing in elementary school.
Middle school was slightly better - he got to take Latin in 8th grade which counts toward his high school language requirement.
Some schools have a really good gifted program while others are ridiculous.
Whether your kids are gifted are not - they'll still need to deal with boredom in the classroom because whether they are in a gifted class or not the class still travels at the speed of the slowest student.
Only you can decide if it's what you want for your kids.
Juts be aware that not all programs are what they are cracked up to be.

I just want you to keep in mind that GATE qualification is somewhat arbitrary. I am a school counselor and I am very familiar with the GATE qualification process.

What test does your district use? We use the OLSAT (Otis Lennon School Abilities Test). It is an odd test that only asks them about 5 different "types" of questions over and over in a different way. Basically logic, sequencing, and verbal reasoning questions. It is testing one type of intelligence. It is not necessarily testing who will be successful in school. The school district sets their own cutoff. The school district I work in, a kid has to score in the 98th percentile or above to qualify for GATE. LA Unified... significantly lower. Pretty much whatever scoops up the top 20% of students. Each school district usually has some kind "alternate" criteria to use after the test, to qualify some more students who maybe just don't possess that specific kind of intelligence, but can hang with the supposed 20%.

Further, if you are using the OLSAT (70 questions they have 40 minutes to answer) there is a complicated scoring rubric that ranks them depending on their age, down to the month. Eg; a 12 y 4 m old student vs a 12 y 8 mo old student.

I say, let them sit for the test. It's never a bad thing to see if your kid happens to qualify for some extra school program, especially if that extra school program is a more enriching and challenging one. But remember if they don't qualify, it was only one test, that tested one specific kind of intelligence (out of many).

Also, if they ever get a chance to re-test, go for that too. As a middle school counselor, I have seen 13 year olds do a re-take and score significantly better than they did in 3rd grade. Especially if they decide they "want it".

Sure, have them try it.
Kids aren't equal! One of my boys is fantastic at math but struggles in writing, the other boy is fantastic at writing but doesn't like to read.
All children have strength and weeknesses. It's not fair to your kids if you want them ALL to be equal ALL the time. That's just not possible.
Now, onto your question. You might as well have them tested at 3rd grade. If they make it then great! You can decide if you want them in the classes or not. If they don't make it, great! Then you know they are in the right kind of class.
My first son took the tests in 3rd grade and made it into the "smarty pants" classes. We actually chose NOT to have him do them. After speaking with him, speaking with his teachers, and speaking to other kids at our school that were in the classes we decided that it was just too much for him if he wanted to still be a KID and play soccer, or with his friends, or watch tv. lol
Do what's right for each of your kids.
L.

In my opinion you know your kids best. Asking their teacher is a good idea. Just to get another opinion. Only you know if they will get frustrated if they do not understand the problems? Will they feel pressured or do they have enough confidence to be proud of themselves whether they can do the work or not, pass or fail?

I naturally feel that my kids are the smartest kids I know, but it never occurred to me to have them test into the GATE program so I guess I'm not like "every parent" :)

Do what YOU feel is right for your kids.

Please go see the school or school district's person who runs the gifted program for elementary age kids. There likely is a liaison person for your school who knows the details. This is the person to talk with, much more than us -- we are not in your school system, not in your specific school. Your "so what happened" addition has good details that indicate you feel your school system isn't necessarily going to challenge and expand your kids' academic experiences as things are -- so find out what is on offer here. Don't dismiss it because there are haters who deplore anything called "gifted."

Be absolutely sure to find some parents whom you find down to earth and sensible, who have kids in the program already, and talk to them. They are a great resource. Again, they know this specific form of gifted program -- we do not, here on Mamapedia.

My thought: Go ahead and have your kids tested in third and THEN after they are tested you can decide how to proceed and whether or not to enter them in any gifted program, or anything else. Just because they get into the program does not mean you HAVE to send them, or that you must send them in elementary -- find out. Around here, a child can enter the "advanced academics" program at the start of third grade based on test scores during second grade (tests given to ALL students, not opted into by a few), and if a child is eligible based on those scores, the parents can choose to start the child in the advanced program at ANY time in grades three through eight. The eligibility stays in place and you can opt into the actual program for your child in any academic year in elementary or middle school; your child is not forced into a gifted class the fall after qualifying. See if Calif. does it the same way. Meanwhile, why not do the testing in third and then consult with the people who really know your kids -- your liaison to the program, your school counselor, and your kids' classroom teachers? Those people can talk about whether your kids are socially ready or need testing for autism or anything else that comes up.

I also live in an area where some parents go for bragging rights etc. over gifted programs. It happens. You do not have to buy into it! YOU and the teachers are the ones who will determine whether your kids are stressed by it; your attitude toward it will be what guides your kids' attitudes. Yeah, there will be other kids who make a big deal of how gifted they are. So what? There will also be kids who brag about their sports abilities, or their singing voice, or their parents' money or...whatever. Your kids will learn to cope, if it's the right place for them to be. I would hate for any kid to coast just to "be a kid" and go without challenges if those challenges meant he or she could find learning fun and meaningful.

Full disclosure: Child in middle school, been in advanced academics since third grade, program has been well worth it for her. I also know kids who tested into the program and parents opted not to have them do it and they're fine too. It is all about what's best for your individual child, and not about what other kids or other parents think.

Yes, test in 3rd. Actually, my DS was tested in K. It's been great, because it got him the enrichment he needed right away.

Test them now. I don't see why you wouldn't. They either get in or they don't. If they are on the cusp you can have them retested in 5th grade.

My son tested for GATE in grade 3 based on my request. He made it in. The teacher did not recommend him.

I knew the extra esteem that GATE gave.

So, parents, even if the teacher does not recommend your child to test--you can. The passing score will override the teacher's recommendation.

Middle school GATE is not as cool as ES school GATE.

I'm in Louisiana, and my daughter tested for both gifted and talented in kindergarten.

A couple of thoughts...

Yes you are right... there are children labeled gifted with another disability. They are called 'twice exceptional'. Don't let your childrens' other disabilities hinder you from having them tested.

I can appreciate what B is saying. Is gifted state mandated in California? Check California's state code. Here in PA gifted IS mandated under Chapter 16. If you find that any of your children are gifted than learn the state code because more than likely you will need to know it to ensure your kids are receiving the services they are entitled to.

I have found that the schools want to provide services based on their resources while in PA services must be based on the child's needs. You will need to advocate your butt off if you want to ensure the services meet your child's needs. In PA we have an association called PAGE (Pennsylvania Association for Gifted Education) that is for parents, students, and educators. It has been a tremendous resource so see if CA has something similar.

While I can appreciate what you're saying about how parent's use it for bragging rights, I feel they should be more concerned with making the school match the curriculum to their child's ability. As B said, the curriculum truly does move at the speed of the slowest student. It does a true disservice for those that are truly gifted.

The sooner you have your children tested the sooner they can receive the enrichment they need. A child can be tested in kindergarten so I would do it now and not wait until 5th grade. The longer you wait the more likely your children are to become complacent and not live up to their full potential. I also believe that the longer you wait the less a child wants to be identified as gifted because of some form of peer pressure where they don't want to be labeled as 'different'. If they are in the program at a younger age the kids seem more accepting of who they are.

So my bottom line is test them now.