Seeking Advice - Springfield,IL

Dear Krisitna
Since you have tried so many things-
I'm thinking you may need to step out of the box-
For Heaven's Sake I just wanted to have some FUN with my girls!!!!

I am thinking that your son may need some
control or say in his life. (he is begining to find himself)
He can't have you or your husband when he may want or need you.
(I understand)-
The problem is that good behavior doesn't get him more power-
misbahaving unfortunately does (you were making efforts- as you listed)
he wants to have some say.

Since you CANNOT let him be boss-

Here's an idea that is in-line with real life.
Daddy/Mommy dollars!!!

In our house- morning and bedtime routines were the source of our biggest frustration.
So- When the girls behave and go through their routine without problems- They get Daddy Dollars.
(these dollars do not get taken away for bad behavior-there's a reason)

My girls can then "buy" a posted activity (games w/ mom and dad, an extra book at bedtime, ect, (we have a "menu" of activities that be can promised at a moments notice- it doesn't have to take too long- maybe 20 min) You MUST follow through even if you are tired after work- but I bet it will be worth it!!

My girls recently chose to spend their Daddy Dollars on getting their nails/toes painted after dinner by their Dad (whom they don't see much of)
Everyone had blast! I was smiling while I washed the dinner dishes!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This way your son would have the power that he craves! and even better, you would be able to enjoy your child more!!!!
Good luck
Any Questions?
Click on my name and send me a personal email
Wishing you joy!!!
L.

Its good you are looking to curb the behavior at this point before school. Basically, I think you need to pick the discipline method you are most comfortable with, get you husband and mom on board, and stick to it 100% for at least a month or two. I do like 123 Magic myself, but the key is consistency. So, if you decide that every time he throws a tantrum or talks back that he will get a time out, then you have to do this every time. No exceptions. I don't care if you are in the middle of Target....pull the cart over, find a corner and send him there. Basically, he has to take you seriously and know you will follow through no matter where you are or who is watching. I would also take things away that he likes for serious infractions. Such as if he hit you or another child, I would give him a time-out and also take away cartoons for the rest of the day...something like that. Your mom is the person that spends the most of the time with him, therefore alot of the discipline will fall to her, so it is imperative that you are in agreement for the discipline to be affective. It is crucial for your son to learn boundaries at this age, before he is completely out of control and you have major issues on your hands. I know hitting, back talk, and the like are normal behavior from this age group, but that doesn't mean your child can't learn to control his poor behavior and learn what is expected and acceptable. Definitely reward his good behavior when at all possible too. Allow him chances to work for something. Like, if he sits nice all through dinner and eats his food, then he gets an extra story at bedtime or dessert of his choice. I think kids do best when they have routine and know what to expect, including consequences for bad behavior. I know it gets frustrating at times, but it will work if you keep at it. You must have a united front between mom, dad, and grandma...I can't stress that enough. Pick a method and see it through.

Hi,

We took a class on Redirecting Children's Behavior (http://www.incaf.com/index.html) and it was one of the best things I have done. It is a work in progress but it works and it allows you to work with your child in a way that is teaching them self control, good decisions and boosting their self esteem rather than squashing it.

It broke my heart to learn all the little things that can squash a kids spirit that you would never guess and these things come out in their behavior. A child acts out for reasons, once we understand then we can work with it in the right way, this is what this class teaches you. Staying consistent is probably the hardest and most important.

I can't say enough about this class. The role play really shows you how a child feels in certain situations and really opens your eyes. Then you get to learn and role play a better way to be a parent in tough situations.

Good luck...my little guy is just like yours, there are defiantly tough days (like yesterday LOL) but once I learned more about his behavior and how to work with it in a healthy way it really made a BIG difference.

Friend of mine's grandson had an aggression problem, short temper, much like you are describing. It turned out that he was in a low level of pain constantly with his teeth.

I'm not suggesting teeth problems, but it might be worth investigating if he has something that is tormenting him physically. Ear aches, head ache, etc.
Just a thought.

What interaction does he have with children during the week and on the weekends? What type of discipline does your mother use for your son? It is hard to answer your question without knowing these answers. He could be acting out to how much time you spend with him vs. the time with his daycare provider.

In my experience with my almost 3 year old, who has done a lot of these same things, logical consequences are the only solution for her. We cannot show that we're angry or that she's getting to us at all. If she dumps a cup of water over on the floor, then no more cups without lids. If she hits me, then maybe I will just go to the store by myself. You then have to follow through. Pretty quickly I could see that that she realized when I was firm, she wasn't going to get her way. And its not always about making her bend to my will but sometimes giving her the words for what she needs. We tried everything also and this was the only thing that worked. That and of course positive reinforcement for the good things he does and maybe random rewards to encourage those random acts of kindness. Every so often now I tell Emma she can have a coin for her bank since I'm so proud of her for not hitting today, or for helping with chores or whatever it is.

Good luck!
K.

You received alot of great support... nice!!
This is a small step which i'm not sure fits you, but I found for my daughter this made a profound difference. I didn't think she had a lot of sugar in her diet, but I had to adjust her diet. I cut her off all sugar drinks only allowing her 1juice bag a day. gave her crackers for snacks. What a difference. She listened better, she could focus better. Good luck & God bless.

My son went through this exact phase when he was 3.5. He started hitting random kids at the park and kids at school. It was mortifying! Fortunately he stopped doing this when he turned 4. We also went to a workshop at Tuesday's Child (http://www.tuesdayschildchicago.org/aboutus.htm), which was helpful because you got to go every week and talk to parents in similar situations. However, they mostly just taught the principles from the book "How to Behave so your Children Will Too". This is an amazing book and I highly recommend you read it. I wish you luck!

Hey K.,
I recommend giving Tuesday's Child a call. We sought them out when we started having similar problems with our son. Through their program we have learned how to use dicipline as a way to teach. The teachers and staff are awesome!
blessings,
J.

Tuesday's Child
4028 W Irving Park Rd
Chicago, IL 60641-2925
###-###-####

When my daughter was five, she and I attended sessions at a place called Tuesday's Child. For a couple hours on eight Saturdays, she was in a room with other kids while I was next door with other parents. The parent group was led by a child psychologist. I learned how to better deal with my daughter's behavior, and in turn, my daughter behaved better. After the sessions ended, I found materials (books, tapes, etc.) called Love & Logic. I thought L&L and TC taught similar techniques that bring about positive outcomes. I recommend both.

Tuesday's Child in the city has wonderful classes for for dealing with problem behavior. they can help you understand your child's behavior and establish some techniques to deal with it as well as help him to practice alternatives.
If the behavior is severe enough that you're worried about expulsion from school, don't be shy about getting some outside help. It can't hurt and the longer your child persists, the harder it will be for him to develop more functional patterns of behavior.
best of luck

I'm curious because it seems as though you folks work a lot of hours (and believe me, I'm not judging, I know it can be necessary) does he show this behavior when he's with his grandma? or just the 2 of you? I ask because it would seem that now that he's in preschool he probably doesn't see a whole lot of his 2 favorite people! Have you tried maybe a "special time" with mom and dad if there were no outbursts in a week? any attention is good attenion if that's what he's looking for. Just a thought. and maybe a little easier on you to aim for the reward rather than the consequence. best of luck!

I see what the problem is, your husband and you are working to much. Daycare is fine, but if you are working 10hrs a day, 5days a week you don't have time for yourself. Your husband is working 7 days a week, what is he looking for an early grave? NO TIME! When you make time for yourself, then you can take the time to rise your son. Your son does not want a daycare all the time he wants a MOM and DAD. Remember he did not ask to come into this world GOD BLESS YOU. TAKE THE TIME AND RISE YOUR SON. Because if you don't do it now the streets will do it later.
CC

I highly recommend these resources...

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/6/T060100.asp
http://www.drphil.com/articles/article/255
http://www.drphil.com/articles/category/4

Best wishes,
J.

I personally believe that timeouts/spankings and other forms of common "discipline" don't work as effectively on any child. Mostly because I remember as a child being that smart one that looked for a way around every thing and ultimately figured out how to pull the wool over my mother's eyes and hide things from her. (my brother was the aggressive one, I was the "good one", but only because I learned how to hide my wrong-doings) Not wanting that kind of relationship with my children, I kept looking for a different way to parent my won children.

I would HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend the book "Raising Your Spirited Child" by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka. It sounds like you have a spirited child and this book could help you immensely.
The other books that I think are interesting and worth a read to help you are:
"Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves" by Naomi Aldort
"Unconditional Parenting" by Alfie Kohn - very controversial book - I think that is what I like about it! But particularly since he addresses what doesn't work in parenting such as the time out - it may ring true to you
"Playful Parenting" - a harder read - but there are some golden nuggets in it and the message is good.

Sadly, I think it is just his age! My son was fine at two- but monstrous at 3!! I think consistency is the only thing you can do- be totally consistent in how you and your mother or anyone else watching him deals with his behavior.

Set him up for success- watch for his 'triggers' for bad behavior and signs that he is about to misbehave. If he starts to act out when he gets hungry- keep snacks on hand at all times! If it is when he is tired, keep him on a strict nap and rest period schedule. If he refuses to nap, that's ok. Just make it quiet, non-stimulated down time- snuggling with grandma, looking quietly at a book, etc. Less or no TV will probably be a big help too.

My nephew, who is very very bright, also went through this. he was a biter and anytime he was out with my brother and his wife in a group of kids, they had to watch him like a hawk. They got to learn his 'tells' - he would get this certain look in his eye before he went after someone and it was almost always when he was tired or overexcited.

Oddly enough, once in preschool and kindergarten, he was much much better. He was very well behaved in school. Is your child always like this, or only around YOU? Are you hovering too much- being a 'helicopter parent'? A lot of kids are worse with their moms and dads, but know teachers and sitters won't put up with nonsense so they don't try it!

Anyway, my nephew is FINE now- a really bright, sweet boy. He still gets over-excited sometimes, but in a normal, five year old way. A time out really works now, because he is old enough to know what fun he misses out on! Just hang in there- they had a lot of the same problems you did- kicking and screaming, biting, they tried all the things you did. It will pass!

This is probably the story of my life with both of my boys. These were the type of things started when my children were 3. Both of my sons were diagnosed with ADHD and ADD, where my oldest is ADD and the youngest is ADHD. My youngest was kicked out at least 2 daycares and one catholic school. I am not surprised that he is hitting, because your spankings made him more violent. The problem is that he is probably too young to be diagnosed for this behavior, because I didn't know until both my boys were 6 and 7 with problems at school. One child was tested and showed that he was capable, but his mind was wondering too much that he failed all question that could only be presented once. The answers he answered correctly were directions that could be repeated more than one time.

I had to be very consistent with the punishments with my boys, because if there were any inconsistencies, I was back to square one. I also noticed that none of my boys were not eating any fish so they were low in Omega 3 and a couple other vitamins. I started giving them multi-vitamins and Omega 3 chewables, which helped some what, but eventually they needed mediacation since they were falling behind in school. The medication treatment was amazing! They were different children. As they are growing older, I noticed that their ADD and ADHD are getting better, which they are now 9 and 7.

This is only a suggestion, because it may be something else, but I know when my boys were at their worst some symptoms was not afraid of authority figures, has tremendous energy, not remorse of wrong doing, hitting and cannot sit still. My son also used to say that he couldn't concentrate when others were talking, which the catholic schools had 35 children in the classroom.

Good Luck...at this time I would try keeping punishments consistant, give directions only one at a time. Never give multiple directions, and be patient. Like I said, it could be something else but if you are concerned ask your child's doctor..that's what I did.

Hi K. Just be patient. You've heard of the terrible twos? well it spills into the terrible threes (smile). My grandson is 3 1/2 and he acts the same way at time. what may help( it work with my grandsone)put him in activities with children his age for a couple hours a day. Children get bored just like adult and just want to vent.

Hi K.,
I am sorry you are going through this. I have a 6 year old that has been very aggressive since he was 3, but he has Autism. I knkow you did not say your son has Autism, but just in case you might be interested, I hold an Autism support group the 2nd Wed. of every month at my house in Aurora. This month, Dr Marrea Winnega is speaking at it on Functional control which really may help you with your son, and you can learn ways to deal with it and help him and get him to listen to you without the aggression etc. If you are interested in learning more, let me know. She is a great speaker and has helped me and my son so much. It will be a great talk and really, this can help any parent that is dealing wtih a child and aggression. I know how hard it is.
S.

You are NOT alone!!!!! My husband and I are having the same problem with our 3 yr old son. I am and have been a stay-at-home mom since he was born. I also provide in-home daycare to 3 other children. If you receive any practical advice PLEASE send it along to me!!!! My e-mail address is ____@____.com Thanks a million!

K. B:

You sound like a very concerned mom,ready to give it all and fix it for your son. This is a positive attitude for you , and I appreciate your concern as a mother.

Here is my opinion. It took 3 1/2 years to learn this attitude, and seeing the end result will not be able to easily fix this problem in a great way.

The best way to change his way of behaving, is to observe his life style. Note all that goes wrong, and how he starts miss behaving. Once he turns into this mode how aggressive is his behavior. What is your way of action, to calm him down? And then keeping everything in mind you have to find a solution, to change his attitude and your actions also. Because for us humans, it is action and reactions that brings results positive and negative. Since your son has skilled his behavior,and he is very sure how to get what he wants,it is very important to change it with this positive, strong and sure to change him action. Do not go trial and error as it will confuse him only.

Remember his brain is developing he will be able to change easily with a positive, planned change in his life style, that will need a training on his part, but also his mom and dads style of parenting also.

Taking help from an expert is the best if you are short on time, so nothing wrong happens, to him mentally.

This is what I think. Because I have adult children, with education and good careers and family. But now when I know a lot about life, children and their growth, I feel both of us (me and my children) have missed some points in their growth)

Where as I am a teacher, by education, worked as a teacher and stayed connected to child psychology and growth of children. Even today, I study the latest research by the top educational and early child development authorities.

In case, you want to fix it yourself, go internet search and find the best information, books and read in detail. Write what you have to do and use step by step.

I wish you to stumble upon the best way to change his behavior, because it will make you feel you have found one of the best purpose for your life. And that will be a great success to you and his dad and above all for your son.

Wishing you the best only.

I have a 5 year old daughter that was doing the same thing. The problem is he is trying to get attention any way he can so he is acting out to get attention.

What I found out is that my daughter needed discipline. So I redirected her actions. Have your mom allow him to help in daily activities. Let him help you, mom, and dad in little daily activities. I had my daughter pick up toys, help put laundry away, dust, etc...

Also, the three of you need to be on the same page. If the three of you stand united, he will learn that his behavior is not acceptable. Reward him when he's good, and take away what he really likes when he is bad.

Understand that this won't happen overnight, but it will over time. He is acting out for attention. I also started doing things like letting my daughter help cook, put away the groceries, and started a nightly bedtime routine of bath and story.

Put him on a schedule will help give him structure. Have meals at certain times, baths, story. He will get used to the schedule and act out less.

Hi K.-

I am in the same situation myself. It sound slike our kids are very similar. My 3 1/2 daughter is a very charming, articulate, intelligent, strong willed child and gets very aggressive at times and I have been working on this for about 1 1/2 years. In our case, I notice several things going on. I notice that she does listen and behave better when she has a full stomach, is motivated to do so by some reward and is well rested. I also didn't realize that sometimes I was pushing her beyond her limits and she was getting overwhelmed and therefore dealing with it by using aggression. I have scaled back our schedule to have more down time and that seems to help her process. Another thing that has been working is having direct, logical and immediate consequences delivered in a non emotional way for her behavior. For example, lately she has been rude to other customers in restaurants. Now when she does this I tell her that if she continues to act this way then we cannot eat in a restaurant with other people and we will lose the priviledge of eating in a restaurant and will eat in the car. This technique has been working but I know that if I allow her to get away with things even 1 time she will start back up with the bad behavior. I also try to use positive reinforcement and rewards when she does really well. It's definitely a lot of work, follow through and patience but better to address these issues now when they are more malleable then when they get older. Good luck-if you need some support please feel free to write me.

Our situations sound VERY similar. My son will be 4 in two months and several months ago he started being really aggressive, especially with his 16 month old little sister. Luckily, this behavior only happens at home and not at pre-school, although on a couple of play dates he has gotten a little mean at the end (verbal only, NEVER hits other kids, I would die). I do think it can be "the age" and I also know with my son, he is at his worst when he is tired &/or hungry, especially when he is tired. The worst time of day is right before lunchtime. I have learned to manage our day to try and avoid the "nasty state" but it can still be very trying. I'm glad you posted your question beacuse I will definitely check out some of the ideas that others have posted. Hang in there!

You've gotten lots of good advice. I just wanted to add a couple of ideas. Definitely look into physical issues (my son was acting out at that age, and among other things he couldn't hear because his ears were full of water!) Ask your pediatrician.

Try to figure out when the behavior happens and what the triggers might be. Be a detective about it. Your pediatrician will ask you, so it helps to have some idea of what the pattern is before you go in (the teacher, your mom can also help with this.) Is it only at school? Only when there are lots of kids around? Only when tired? Keep a log of behavior incidents for a week or two. My son had sensory integration issues, which we knew nothing about, but it all made sense once we knew what to look for (for him, it was noisy or echoey environments that were a trigger - like a lot of daycare centers and schools that have big, high ceilings.)

Best wishes to you! 3.5 is a difficult time anyway, so as some of the other moms have said, it may just be that.

K.,
I'm sorry you're having these issues! I have read a lot of the responses and all have good things to say. In particular I love the idea of the mom/dad dollars. I understand that you both have to work and you're very lucky to have your mom able to watch him, I'd suggest making one day off-limits to working like Sunday. Make it FAMILY DAY!! It has been such a blessing to our family!! If you are religious, attend your service/mass/meetings then go home, pack a picnic & change, then do something FUN as a FAMILY! No one is allowed to make plans on Sundays unless we're all doing it together. This area has so much fun and cheap things to do, you're missing out on this time to bond as a family. You will find he will be more rooted now and as he grows - my teenager actually laughed with us on Sundays even when he was mortified to be seen with us and totally annoyed by his little sister! This time really gelled our family.

Also, not to sound too D. Reid here, but family dinner is super important too. It sounds unrelated but honestly it's not. You get time to interact without yelling (hopefully) and hearing what is going on his world. Dinnertime talk is tops. It also ensures you're all nourished. And that is the source of what I really wanted to discuss - your son may have an allergy or something that is causing him to act up. My oldest is ADHD, but the meds route just didn't work for him. We were able to manage it a whole lot better when I discovered cornstarch, which is in everything, aggravated his symptoms. I had to get very real about nutrition in our home and nothing but blessings have come from that. I'm not Martha Stewart, actually I'm a lazy cook but I use real foods not a bunch of processed stuff. I was 23 and coping with all that while my dh worked all the time to support us. I know how aggravating and tiring this is. By doing a family dinner, you'll be nourished, too, which in turn gives you the stamina to be the mom you know you have to be. That will help you with classes or just dealing with the daily arguments that will inevitably come (particularly from about 8 years & up!).

Lastly I'd get him to the doctor for a checkup. There could be something else going on, or it could be normal 4YO boy stuff. My sis-in-law has been trying for years to understand why her daughter is such a pain in the rear end. Everyone said she was just difficult or it was in sil's head. She finally found a doc who not only believed her but diagnosed her with mild sensory disorder and with occupational therapy and an aid at school that kid is doing SO MUCH BETTER. She is 5 and just started kindergarten after being at preschool last year. It has made a huge difference that her mom followed up on her hunch.

Good luck and God bless you as you work this out. I applaud you for looking into your options.
D.