I posted last week about an issue with our alcoholic neighbor, Jeff. The overwhelming response that I received was that my expectations were unrealistic and that I needed to not interfere in their relationship. (To clarify one thing, Jeff and my husband were never friends and rarely ever spoke with each other prior to Jeff's first DUI.) Based on that feedback, I decided to let things go and we smoothed things out.
Another situation occurred today. Because my reaction last week was so off-base, I'm not sure how to react.
My husband left today to spend a week in Florida with a friend. (My son and I were unable to go with him because of work and school.) As I was driving him to the airport, he mentioned to me that Jeff told him yesterday that his house will actually go up for auction late next week and that he'll have 30-60 days to vacate the premises after the sale is registered. He said that Jeff is really concerned about where he's going to live, because he has no savings, no job, and no family that will allow him to live with them. He said that Jeff was strongly hinting that he'd like to stay with us temporarily. And he told me that he thinks that it might be a good idea to allow him to stay with us for 1-2 months.. His rationale is that once Jeff is actually forced to leave his home, he may become serious about keeping a job, and he can then save for an apartment deposit. I asked my husband why he didn't just give Jeff money to pay a security deposit, and he said that Jeff has to have proof of employment before he can get an apartment. He said the only alternative that Jeff really has is to stay at a shelter, and he doesn't want that to happen. I'm just concerned that once Jeff is in a comfortable home environment with a refrigerator full of food (and an extensive wine collection :)) we may never get him to leave. I told my husband that I'd think about it.
The thing is, I don't think that my opinion about where Jeff lives is really is going to matter. If my husband wants Jeff to stay with us, it most likely will happen. Shortly after we got married, while I was pregnant, my husband allowed his ex-wife to stay with us 'for two days' because she was having some personal problems. 'Two day's' turned into 4 months, and I was pregnant at the time. There was fighting between the 3 of us every single day... Her yelling at me, my husband yelling at her, etc. I spent half my pregnancy in my bedroom. And even after I told him "This isn't o.k. It's not healthy for anybody, and she needs to leave. And if she doesn't leave I may need to go stay with a friend', he still allowed her to stay until she was ready to leave. After going through some therapy, I was able to forgive him and move on for the sake of our marriage and our child. But, based on comments that he's made since then, I know that he still thinks that what he did was good and noble, simply because he was being compassionate.
Before I talk with him about it again, I'm really just trying to figure out if my concerns are valid.
Thoughts and opinions?
My husband and I had a long phone conversation tonight. He called to tell me that he discussed the whole Jeff situation with the friend he's currently visiting, and when he tossed out the possibility of Jeff staying with us temporarily, his friend basically told him that he's crazy to even consider it. Not only did this friend talk to him about the fact that he needs to let Jeff hit rock-bottom so that he stops living in denial, but he also talked to him about the legal ramifications of having him in our home. Specifically, that there's a fine line between being a guest and being a tenant, and we could potentially need to legally evict him if he won't leave on his own. Based on that discussion, my husband now agrees that there's no way that he can stay with us.
Based on the last few weeks, I now understand that there's a bigger issue in our relationship. The fact that I knew, based on prior experience, that my wishes most likely wouldn't be honored is a huge problem. My anger over last weekend's incident really wasn't because of Jeff's actions. It was because my husband's response of "That's uncalled for.... But I'm not angry at you" was similar to what his response to his ex-wife was when she chastised me or yelled at me. Even while I was pregnant, I never felt that I was his top priority. And as much as I'd like to think we moved past that, clearly we haven't.
I know that he really does care about the well-being of others. He's on several non-profit boards and is the first to offer to help someone. But he takes his 'projects' to an extreme. It's not enough to be on a board, he wants to be an officer. It's not enough to occasionally lend someone his ear, he wants to help the fix their problems. It's almost like his identity and self-worth comes from what he does for others.
Unfortunately, that sense of compassion and concern for others isn't always present at home. And that's an issue that we need to work through.
Jeff has 30-60 days still left to get a job and therefore can then rent a place. If he doesn't move his butt now after knowing it's final that he has to vacant his house he has no motivation once living with you to get back on his feet.
If you husband wants a roommate he can move in with Jeff.
Yikes!!
You know all that stuff that we wrote the other day about your husband being compassionate?
Forget it!
Now that you've told us he moved his ex wife in for months despite the conflicts, I'm changing my view of him entirely!
Your husband is an enabler! He cannot say no. I don't know how long his "list" is, but you're at the bottom of it! You have a child who needs to be protected from a broke manipulator with an alcohol problem and zero income.
Jeff needs to go into a program. Maybe a shelter, maybe an alcohol treatment center, I'm not sure. Not your problem. He MUST be desperate enough to seek help. So far, he's not, because people keep bailing him out.
Say absolutely NO to your husband. Meantime, pay a casual visit to your local police department and find out what's involved in getting a restraining order against someone with Jeff's history even with your husband's lack of cooperation.
Make an immediate appointment with a counselor to discuss your marriage and communication. If your husband will go, great. If not, go anyway, and work out a plan for coming first in your marriage. Your husband has a soft spot for everyone but you. Red flag.
Oh, no, no, no, No, No, NO!
No WAY would I allow this guy to live in my house with my kids.
The man is an addict - wouldn't clean up for his own family/kids - will beg borrow or steal to feed his habit - and it is not your job (nor your husbands) to make any more attempts to fix this broken person.
Alright, your husband has a proven track record for this with his ex coming to live with you.
How DARE he even make the merest suggestion that he would put you through something like this again.
If Hubby want to run a homeless shelter - he needs to do it where you don't live.
If Jeff comes to stay - you pack up the kid(s) and go.
Additional:
Do you (your family) have the money to throw away on Jeff?
How much has been put into your child's college fund?
How is your retirement fund looking?
Do you have any debt right now (loans, mortgage, etc)?
When it comes to financial triage - your immediate family should come first.
It's all good and well to be compassionate but where is your husbands compassion for you and your child?
You know, a common marriage vow is to 'forsake all others' and while the most usual interpretation is no having sex with anyone else - it can also be interpreted as putting anything else besides your family ahead of your family - which is what your husband is doing.
I'm not sure why his prior marriage ended but this might be a reoccurring problem with him and if it doesn't get addressed and fixed - it's going to (or should) end his current marriage too.
First off, I was one of the few that thought your husband was out of line :)
Marriage is about compromise and partnership. For example, a compromise in this situation might be:
You: no, we won't help Jeff
Your husband: Jeff is going to live with us
Compromise: We will help Jeff financially up to $500 total and drive him twice a week from the shelter to an AA meeting.
The compromise is NOT:
You: no, we won't help Jeff
Your husband: Jeff is going to live with us
Jeff moves in next week
Basically, your husband is inviting a virtual stranger, with a mental illness/disability (however you choose to looks at alcoholism), and a history of being verbally abusive to you (and gee, probably his ex-wife since I'm sure she didn't leave for no reason at all), into your home.
Alcoholics often need to hit rock bottom before they are truly willing to admit that they need help. Your husband is actually preventing Jeff from possibly achieving his rock bottom that would lead to his recovery.
This would be a total dealbreaker for me. Either my husband and I would have to find a compromise or I think I would have to leave. I would need to know in my heart if my husband loved ME more than the idea of being a "noble guy." You might want to remind him that a "noble guy" puts his family first.
Good luck!
Total deal breaker for me.
Your husband is codependent.
Jeff is an alcoholic and heading into the late stages of it. He needs to get professional help immediately. Multiple legal problems, loss of job, loss of finances and loss of family are late stage symptoms.
Your husband also has a problem. He enables people, and is codependent. Codependency is also progressive and has stages. Your husband's codependency is causing ( has caused?) marital problems, and I would bet financial problems. Your husband (and you) needs professional help.
The fact that he does not understand that allowing an unpredictable, threatening, penniless addict into his home and exposing his wife and child to this is a bad idea screams in bright flashing neon that your husband has a problem.
Your job is to keep you and child (children) safe.
No addict/alcoholic ever died from tough love, but they have died from being enabled.
Please protect your child.
I was one of the ones who thought your husband was showing kindness.
But this is crossing the line. Perhaps your husband will consider this: Jeff has driven while drunk and been arrested. He's mismanaged his funds. He lost his family. He lost his jobs, numerous times.
A person who is in that much trouble needs professional help. Unless your husband is a psychiatrist, or unless he's an addiction counselor, he is in no position to help a person in such dire straits as Jeff. It's comparable to your husband inviting a person who needs hospice care while suffering from terminal cancer to stay in your house without a nurse or any medical training on your part. That person needs specialized care from trained professionals. So does Jeff. Jeff has had choices. You said he left his latest job after like 2 hours or 2 days or something over a trivial matter. Jeff knew at that point that he was in danger of losing his house, but he still chose unemployment over employment with a paycheck.
If Jeff had one problem, like if his job had been terminated because the company closed down and he went bankrupt, I'd think about letting him stay. But the smorgasbord of problems that he has is beyond your or your husband's capabilities.
Your concerns are very valid. Ask your husband if he's willing to literally stay by Jeff's side 24/7, with no breaks. Jeff needs to be watched so that he doesn't drink or steal. He needs employment coaching (both in job seeking and in staying committed to a job). He needs financial advice and accountability.
Inviting a person with Jeff's background into your private home is irresponsible, potentially dangerous, and reckless. It does Jeff no favors. Jeff would learn that he can throw everything away, and land in your comfy home.
I'd seriously tell your husband that he can live with Jeff or he can live with you and your child. I'd tell him that Jeff needs counseling, and needs therapy, and needs the resources that a shelter can provide. He does NOT need a safe place to avoid what he's done to himself.
"If my husband wants Jeff to stay with us, it most likely will happen."
That's not how marriages work. If that is how it is in your house, your marriage does not work. The idea that your husband would do this shows a lack of respect for you.
It is one thing to stay out of a thing that happens out in the world, but your home is your sacred domain. My husband would never, ever disregard my wishes in our home even if he disagreed with me. To add a second layer, you have children in the home and your husband may want to bring an unstable person into the household. That would never happen, if I was in your shoes..
You told your husband you'd think about it when in your head you know you wanted to say, "Absolutely Not." Tell your husband NO now, no matter what the fallout comes from it. If it creates a fight - good. Because you're putting your foot down now.
While I do not doubt that you love your husband, this is deal-breaker level stuff. If it comes you it, issue an ultimatum - Jeff or your marriage. Mean it. Start making plans now so that you are prepared to follow through. Consult with a lawyer about your options.
Your husband has a great heart, but he is wrong. Letting Jeff stay with you is not going to help him. It's only going to prolong him facing the truth ... that he is an alcoholic and that until he admits this and gets help, he is not going to be able to improve his life.
Could you do a little research? Find out if there are any programs in your area. I don't know the details, but there are programs in our area ... there are treatment centers and sober living houses. I don't know how they are funded or how someone would qualify, but it is definitely something to investigate.
The thing is, he has to be ready to admit that he has a problem. He needs to go to AA in order to start getting his life back together. If he isn't ready to do that, living with you isn't going to help.
No.
Just no.
You don't help an alcoholic by giving them a way out and a hand up and a place to stay. They get help by admitting they have a problem. He isn't doing that.
NO. And you are absolutely right about how things will go. He will not leave. He will become a daily point of contention between you and your husband and you and him. AND, frankly, I wouldn't want a strange man living in my home. PERIOD. And that's what he is. Someone you were not friends with nor close to, until he started losing everything due to his drinking, and now you and he already have an issue between you and your husband thinks it's the "right thing to do" to invite him to LIVE in your home?!! Your husband may have been smoking something recently. That's incredible that he would even bring this idea up to you.
From your previous history story, regarding the ex wife, I wonder if your husband has boundary issues. Does he ever say "no" to anyone?
He needs to say NO to this idea. "Jeff" does NOT need to move in with you.
Hi B.,
I actually related to you in your last question. My husband has some family members who are always troubled and have pretty big issues. We decided that so long as my husband didn't allow them to negatively impact our family - I stay out of it. It works for us. He's helpful to a point, but has firm boundaries.
What you describe here is crossing the boundary. This would be unacceptable to me. I am with you. The whole having his ex live with you ... I don't even get that. Honestly, that would have been a deal breaker for me.
Because you have caved in the past - he's now thinking that you will again. When you say it doesn't matter what you feel - Jeff will still come to live with you, that's a really big marital/relationship problem.
This is way bigger than Jeff. I know that you get that.
The bottom line is - Jeff is not your husband's or your family's responsibility. It's admirable that your husband wants to help - but this goes beyond healthy help. Your marriage comes before helping a neighbor. You mention they weren't even friends before.
My husband has one person in his family who is an enabler. He allows relatives to stay with them - indefinitely. He doesn't just allow it - he encourages it. He has helped them financially. Over the years, when you look back, he's positioned himself to be this person who 'helps' so many, but really, they just become dependent on him.
It's a fine line. Would you go see a counsellor on your own? That's what I would recommend. Even a session or two would help to give you objective advice. Best to you
I was not the easiest on you in your last question.
With this new info.... NO.
For the safety of your children and family, no way would I allow a known alcoholic down on his luck live with my family.
Your husband is kind to want to help but he should not risk his children's safety in order to help Jeff.
You have to think about your children. What if Jeff touched one of them? It's not worth that risk.
You owe Jeff nothing. You've been kind enough. He needs to step up to the plate and help himself.
I'd draw the line at the suggestion that he lives in my house. He'll never leave and you'll have an adult child.
I'm so glad your husband's friend was able to talk him out of the idea of allowing Jeff to stay with you. Number one, you have a child at home. You cannot have Jeff exposing his addiction drama around your son. You cannot have a troubled acquaintance move IN to your home when you have a child. It's not only unfair to him and to you, it's WAY too risky, for more than financial reasons.
Also what your husband does not seem to get is that if Jeff may very well need to live in a shelter, for him to find it within himself to reach out and to WANT sobriety for himself.
First of all, I see no real issues with him helping his ex wife, she was family and you take care of family. That said, Jeff is not family, he is an alcoholic and not someone you need to have around your children living under the same roof. I would tell my husband no, I am sorry but someone else, maybe family, is going to have to help him. I would also make sure he understood that if he went behind my back on this and let Jeff stay anyways that the kids and I would be staying somewhere else. You don't invite an addict to live with your children.
The problem is not Jeff. The problem is your husband.
ETA after your So What Happened:
I'm glad that your husband's friend helped open his eyes some, and I am glad that you realize that you two have some real relationship problems, as you detailed here.
However, it's one thing to know this, and another thing to deal with it.
Your husband takes you for granted. He doesn't show you the same level of respect or love that he does to his "projects". And these people are really "projects".
I understand something about this, B.. I have a history of turning some people who I come across in my life, who I feel are worthy of help, into "projects". It's not homeless people or alcoholics. It's people who I identify with on a personal level who could use a "leg up" on some level. Whether it's connections I have to help them get a better job or extra work, or helping their group by volunteering, or giving advice to someone who is a lot younger than me and can't see the forest for the trees in what they are doing. Yes, I do give financial help in ways that aren't perceived as "handouts", but I would never bring someone into my home and let them live with me, other than family. And even THAT would be a joint decision with my husband.
Have I ever regretted doing this? Yes. There are some people who take advantage and don't have an ounce of gratitude. And I've been burned by those kind of people before. It's painful. However, I've felt so good about some people I have helped. Knowledge or advice I've given that made a difference in someone's life! It can be a wonderful feeling to mean something to someone like that. I know that sounds like self-gratification, but I hope that I give better to them than I get in the feeling of well-being I have from being helpful to someone.
All this being said, my husband and my home comes FIRST. Everyone else comes second. You can care about others' circumstances without unduly imposing them and their problems on your own family. And that's what your husband doesn't understand or seem to care about. And that is a REAL PROBLEM.
You need to get your husband to marriage counseling NOW. DO NOT let this go. Just because you've dodged a bullet here with your husband being made aware of legal ramifications of his wishes doesn't mean that a variation on this theme isn't going to continue to happen. He isn't thinking of you AT ALL with this. He is thinking about himself. You should be MORE important to him than EVERYONE ELSE instead of the other way around. And you must change this if you are going to have what is a real marriage...
Original:
Whoa!!! This is a real shock.
Your husband is a fool if he does this. It's bad enough he forced this on you when you were pregnant with his ex.
This is NOT compassion and being noble. This is caring about someone else more than he cares about you.
Get to a lawyer and get some help. Jeff is NOT going to improve. He can't stand you and may end up hurting you in your home. You need to stand up to him.
I really think you would be in danger with this man in your house.
Nope. Put your foot down. Tell Jeff he cannot stay with you and give him a list of places he can look into. Churches might have ideas for you. I would consider letting him use your address to apply for jobs, but that is as far as I'd go. Staying at a shelter is not going to be a big deal if that is what it comes down to.
No way!
Jeff has a lot of nerve to ask this when he couldn't even extend an apology to you. I also think it is shocking your husband asked this of you. I honestly think I would move out if Jeff moved in. This would be a deal breaker for me. Just wow!!!
No, put your foot down and in a harsh way if you have to. You have a child to think about. To bring in an alcoholic into your home, around your child, could be dangerous! The way people act outside of your house most likely completely different than living with them. He could be an angry violent drunk, and you don't need that around your child. Not to mention, letting him live with you is only going to enable him and his drinking habit. He needs to hit rock-bottom and if going to a shelter with help him AND YOU in the long run, then to a shelter it is. Do not let this man live with you!
I am only giving this suggestion in case you think that your husband is really going to be stubborn in his insistence to help Jeff: Maybe your husband could rent an apartment and allow Jeff to live there? Be on the lease as a "roommate" and just not actually live there with him?
I know that sounds a bit nutty, but it is certainly a way to help Jeff have a place to live without him living in your home. One step up from your idea of giving him a security deposit.
While I did not have a problem with your husband lending a supportive shoulder and ear to this troubled man, to open your home to him is an entirely different matter. This is the time that a boundary needs to be set. As someone whose ex's father would open his home to troubled people like this guy, I can tell you that this is something you will regret. They opened their home to Chuck, an alcoholic whose wife left him and he lost his job, etc, sort of like Jeff. They gave him the guest room and the guy was there for maybe 4 months, with the same excuse as Jeff "I just need help temporarily while I look for a job and then I will be out of your hair."
At first, things were pleasant enough, but when my ex's father asked him about the job search, he told him to back off and leave him alone. This left a bad taste in his mouth, and that is when he discovered that Chuck had relapsed into drinking and the way he was supporting his habit was by stealing from him. Things like home goods started going missing at first, so it was harmless enough and not noticeable. He then got a job washing dishes in a pizza restaurant, but they were on to him. It wasn't long before he was fired for his belligerent attitude and then, when computer parts and eventually credit cards were stolen from my ex's father, they caught on to him.
He confronted him about the way he repaid his kindness of hosting him for free, giving him all the food he wanted for free, electricity, water, driving him to work, etc. and the guy got aggressive and yelled and cursed back. He demanded that Chuck leave his home and never return and the homeless guy refused. They had to call the police to have him removed and the guy made a huge scene on the street. He also tried to get aggressive with the police officers because I guess he realized at that point he was done for and had nothing to lose. Imagine if this man had had a gun and shot them all dead for evicting him.
Under no circumstance should Jeff be allowed to move in. Why would he make an effort to find a job when you're enabling him by providing for him for free? There are shelters and I'm sure he has family somewhere if he doesn't want to be in a shelter. Honestly, if he didn't want to be in a shelter, he should have thought about that before losing his job, his home, his wife, and doing nothing to resolve his situation. There are also sober living homes if he is willing to acknowledge he has a problem and get cleaned at rehab. He made his bed, now he must lie in it and yes, sometimes tough love IS what people like Jeff need, not to be enabled and allowed to live off of your kindness for months, maybe years, and make YOU and your husband uncomfortable in your OWN home.
Ummm, no. That's not a good idea. I know this guy is hinting to have a free place to live but living with you is NOT a good idea. He can go stay in a men's shelter. That's what I would tell my husband. There's a huge difference between being a nice guy to get along in the neighborhood.
Here's what I would do in your place, and get your husband on board.
Make a list of every men's shelter and homeless shelter that takes people in. He has 60 days? Don't they have to evict him? Or has he officially received notice to vacate?
If he has then he needs to start packing up. I wouldn't take this person in after the way he treats you.
Your concerns are totally valid! Jeff has not yet hit bottom. Your hubby may think so, but until Jeff is on the street with nowhere to go, he hasn't hit bottom. If you/your hubby rescue him, he will not get it and you are absolutely right, he'll have no incentive to get and keep a job. Tell your hubby to attend an Alanon meeting while he's away and bring this up at the meeting. Or have him call a hotline and ask them. He will probably listen to them more than listen to you. If you allow this to happen, you and your child will suffer because there WILL be issues, especially with that wine collection in the house. This is a horrible idea. If your hubby really wants to help, have him go to AA meetings with Jeff to give support. But that's all he can do for Jeff; the rest is up to Jeff.
No the the alcoholic non working soon to be former neighbor doesn't get to live with you. His inability to do the right things for himself has put his into this position. If he didn't want to live in a shelter he should have counted the costs of his actions prior to getting here.
As for your husband and his "compassion", no compassion for outside of our relationship comes before me and my feelings. If your husband is going to disregard your feelings and concerns then you have a bigger problem than the neighbor. Communication is very important as well as having a plan of escape if your husband doesn't heed your desires.
