5-Year Old Daughter Antagonizes 7-Year Old Sister

Another good book that I would recommend would be "Siblings with out Rivalry" My children are a little young yet for it but from the amount I have read and from the amount of good reviews I think it would be a helpful book. The same authors also have a book called "How to Talk so You Kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids will Talk" which is also a great one.
K. H.

Wow, you are describing my life as an older sister to a T. My sister is 2 years and 1 day younger than me. She has always antagonized me, and my mom would just say "she knows exactly how to push your buttons -- you can't let it bother you." It didn't help that I was sensitive and overreacted like your older daughter does. And, it also didn't help that my sister was almost as big as me and stronger than me.

I think the other posters have given a lot of great advice, and my advice is to do whatever you can to stop this behavior now. Otherwise, the middle school and high school years will be very painful. We had a lot of yelling and door slamming at my house.

Also, I may be getting ahead of myself, but I have 2 pieces of advice for when they get older. 1.)As tempting as it will be to have the older daughter be the babysitter for the younger daughter any time you need to run errands or want to go out with your husband, try to make that the exception rather than the norm. Otherwise, you may end up with a lot of power struggles and a lot fights. I would wait to do this until the younger one is old enough to be at home by herself, and then they can be resposible for themselves, rather than one in charge of the other. And, 2.)try to help them foster their own interests. My sister and I both played tennis and were terribly competitive on the court and could hardly play a game together. How I always wished that she would have played a different sport. But, perhaps things would have been different if we had learned to resolve our problems at a younger age.

Sorry if I rambled, but your problem really touched a nerve with the big sister in me. And, if you find any great solutions, let me know because I am due with my second child a week before my son turns 2!

The good news is that my sister and I get along now that we are adults! ;-) Good luck!

T.,

It sounds like it is time to hold a family council. Decide with your husband what you would like for your girls to do to resolve conflict - big sister needs to ignore, walk away, not tattle. Little sister needs to treat her sister nicely. Whatever you come up with. Plan a family council where you will teach the behavior you want. Include in your council some roleplays (you and your husband go first, pretending to be the girls, then have them practice with you or your husband, then practice on each other. You may need them segregated to opposite corners of the living room for the council if they can't make it through without a fight.

It would also be a good time to discuss the importance of family unity - why the girls need to look out for each other, be kind to each other, etc. This lesson should also include planning of a reward system and a consequence for misbehavior and you can have the girls contribute to what they think is a fair punishment for THEMSELVES, not each other.

Then you wait. When they make it through the afternoon or the day without fighting, they get their rewards. Set it up however you want, but I would highly recommend that it be a cooperative effort, not a competition. So either they earn the reward together or they don't get it at all.

When they start to fight - and they will - the consequence comes fast and hard without discussion. It is not the time to talk about what happened or tried to sift out who started it or who did what to whom. It doesn't matter. They blew it as a team, they lose as a team. Using the example you gave, I would stop it right at the point where big sister hits little sister and send them both to lay on their beds until you were done fixing dinner and then they could come out and eat. No books, no toys, no games, just lay there. If they share a room, you may need to put one on a guest bed or your bed, but family council is a time to decide that, not during the consequence.

Your seven year old will react like you just beheaded her best friend. Ignore it. Don't let her guilt you into anything, including consoling her for being punished. It will be hard and difficult for a while. Then your five year old will realize that teasing sister isn't nearly as fun as it used to be and your seven year old will realize that overreacting will not get the sympathy it used to.

Your girls will still occasionally fight. It is a part of being siblings. But you can have a house that is more peaceful than not. You will need to continue to hold family councils about peace and love in the home and have them inventory themselves as a team - not criticizing each other. This is a long hard road, but will be well worth it.

Good luck,
S.

Hi there..Well I kinda have the same problem. I have 2 boys and there ages are 2 1/2 and 7..So what I have kinda started to do is. Pick an hour or 2 during the day and have them play together, and I sit down with them and we play..and that really helps. I just see that my youngest son just wants his big brothers attention. or if it gets really bad then they both go to time out together and sit next to eachother. And then after that they really decide to get along. Even if my oldest son didn't start the fight, they know if I didnt see it happen they both are going to go to time out cuz i won't take sides. and it seems to be working right now ..they have been getting along. I hope this helps you.

I would let them know that if they can't get along, they will have NO priveleges at all. That means no TV, no toys, no friends over, etc. and they will have to earn everything back by doing nice things for each other. I would also put down a zero tolerance policy on physical violence in the home. Do it, and let them know you mean it 100%! Also encourage them to be a team. Give them chores they have to accomplish together like taking out the trash or cleaning up a room. Reward them with lavish praise and then let them have a special treat like playing a board game with mom...together. It takes time, but it works! I have a 7 and 10 year old who have their times, but overall get along very well for a brother and sister! Best of luck to you!!!

The 5-year old controls the whole house when she antagonizes her sister. There must be some rules, because the 5-year old knows that her behavior will get her older sister in trouble. The 7-year old may be "intense" because she is constantly having to reassert her own rights and her personhood and her last ditch effort is to get violent.

Sit both girls down, turn the TV and all other noise off, and explain to them that what they are doing is not allowed. Look at each of them as you speak.

Tell the 5-year old that if she wants her sister's attention to wait until the commercial or the program ends to ask her question and tell the older one that hitting is not any way to solve a problem.

Make them acknowledge that they understand by repeating what you said to them. This is important because it reinforces what you are trying to do.

The 5-year old is learning that manipulation, which is a form of dishonesty, gets her her way, and she has learned to incite a fight to get attention. The 7-year old has been reduced to using violence to get her point across instead of using tact and the "system" to resolve her problems. Both these dynamics will come into play in these girls' lives down the line in negative ways. You don't want that for them. You are right to ask the question because you don't want this for them when they get older (or now when it affects your sanity!! LOL)

Explain the rules: the 5-year old is not allowed to interrupt her sister's TV program and the 7-year old is not allowed to hit her out of frustration.

Consequences:

SUCCESS

Set up a behavior chart for one week so the girls can see their progress. If they follow the rules, they will get whatever treat you think is appropriate.

Explain that this is a one-time treat earning opportunity. Using treats one time to teach good behavior is incentive. Using treats all the time is bribery and kids tune into that economic principle quickly. (It translates into blackmail by action.) Explain that once they have demonstrated that they have changed their behaviors to your satisfaction, you expect them to maintain that behavior. Oh, and no partial treats for partial compliance. This is all or nothing. It's faster and more effective that way.

Make sure the treat is equal for both girls. Kids have a very accurate, invisible "scale of fairness" in their heads.

FAIL:

If the 5-year old stands in front of the TV, she goes to time out until that program is over (1 minute per year of age rule is out the window except if it happens in the last 5 minutes of the program). She also loses one whole TV program for that day and has to go into time out for that period of time.

If the 7-year old hits her sister, she loses the rest of the program and another whole program plus goes into time out during that period, too, just like for the 5-year old.

Both lose the treat at the end of the week if they don't follow the rules. If one follows the rule and one doesn't, the one who succeeded gets her treat and the other does not. This is to teach each of them that they are responsible for each of their own behaviors and one cannot impact the other.

If the 7-year old comes to you to complain about her sister, drop what you are doing at that moment (although, it will probably happen the first or second time when you are in the bathroom - LOL) and handle it immediately. Every time. This tells both that you are serious about this rule. It is the fastest most efficient way to get your point across.

Keep a closer eye on them and try to catch the 5-year old before the 7-year old has to say anything. That conveys two messages: first, you are on top of things, and second, the 7-year old knows she is being backed up.

Explain the rule again each morning to them when they get up. This reinforces the rule and avoids the excuse of "I forgot." It also lets them know that you have not forgotten, either. (I learned a lot from my kids.)

If they don't get through the first week, do it again. Different chart. Same rules and consequences. Do not give a treat if they don't succeed. Parents sometimes make that mistake and kids will run with it.

I raised my three sons, each 2 years apart, alone for the last 13 years of their childhoods.

My rules: include everybody - no one gets left out even when friends are over (unless previously arranged); no name calling or hitting and ask to use someone else's toy before taking it; use good manners (please and thank you) and consideration for each other.

One time, they were all arguing and I grounded them from each other for an hour. They couldn't wait to get to play with each other again!

My sons are now grown - they got along for the most part when they were little and they all get along very well now. I am thrilled that they are friends with each other.

Hi T.! How 'bout arranging it so that both girls have undesirable consequences when they interact the way you describe? "Well, Five, if you can't be considerate of your sister when she's watching TV, you'll have to be punished. And, Seven, you know that there is no excuse for hitting, so you'll have to be punished too." Then I'd give them each a 5-minute time-out. I'd explain that the 5 minutes are punishment for what they have already done and that when the time is up it will be up to each girl individually to decide if she feels able to treat her sister in a pleasant manner. If she thinks she can, then fine -- that's the end of it. But if either girl (or both) thinks she won't be able to be pleasant, then she/they will have to continue with the time out. It will be up to each girl to tell you how much more time out she thinks she'll need. (When I did this with my kids they always felt ready to be pleasant after the original time out. What a surprise!) I always explained to them that if they THOUGHT they could be pleasant but then it turned out that they couldn't be, I would sadly have to give one or both of them another time out -- 6 minutes, this time (or, again, more if they felt they'd need it). That way THEY are responsible for how the rest of the day (or hour or whatever) goes, and you are the sad mother forced to punish because they, unfortunately, weren't able to be pleasant.

Oh. And during the time-outs, I'd set the timer for 5 minutes and leave it where they could see it. I'd have them sitting back-to-back in kitchen chairs where you can keep an eye on them. You don't want them to get after each other and you don't want them to have fun! I hope you try this, because it always worked for me and it cut way back on the number of incidents we had to deal with!

Good luck!

I come from a family of 5 girls all close in age. This is a common thing among sisters. I was one of the youngest and just wanted attention from my older sisters. Physical violence was never tolerated in my house. When it comes to that shut the tv off and time out works great. Mom would always give us a warning that if our words were not kind we would not be able to watch tv the rest of the day. Most of the time we worked out our arguments on our own. Try helping the 5 yr old asking her sister nicely to play a game with her. Hope this helps.

I agree with Kandi K. It is an attention gaining effort on the younger ones part. I dealt with this with my two kids as well. Taking away what caused the argument helped. Also, talk to your older daughter and ask her to take time out of her day, just a few minutes, and spend it one on one with her little sister. This was the magic key with my kids as all my daughter wanted was some good attention from her older brother. Once he started making a little time for her, she settled down quite a bit.

Something else that works for when they fight is a trick that my Mother-in-Law taught me, make the kids sit in chairs on opposite sides of the room, but facing each other. The kids will make faces at each other and eventually, this will turn into laughter and that is when time-out is over.

I have the same problems with my 15yr old and 12 yr old daughters. I am also from a family of 6 kids, I am the oldest, and we did the same thing growing up. I have found that it is true the younger one wants to be with big sister or brother. I make my girls spend time together once a week, take them and drop them off at the movies, what ever it takes. Now with the girls being younger, I would make up start up a game, get them going on it and leave them alone. I hate to also have to tell you that they will have to work some of it out on their own. My daughter have been this way since they were born, and you can't force the change, but you can slowly help them. My 12yr still pushed her sister's buttons, and some time I just let them work it out. Some times it does get a little physical. It also starts to get a little creative as they get older. My oldest is easy to "piss off" and so when I see it is going to blow up, I make her little sister do extra work around the house.
My mother worked a lot so we had to deal with 6 different personalities and to this day there are two of us that love to antagonize the others. We now do it with love, and it is something that when we get together we do, it is a way for us to bond. My 3 brother and 2 sisters live all around the country and so this is one of our ways to show our love for each other and a way to play like we did as kids. So don't dicount the fact that they may not "love" each other because of this behavor or that they don't respect the other.

Have you heard about Bach flower essences? There would probably be one or several that would deal with your daughters' issues and help turn them into a positive. You can get a book on Bach flowers at the library, or new at a health food store as well as (I would expect) at most big chain book stores. Many times many more than one essence is called for. This can get expensive, but I have all 38 essences and could do a blend for you, if you'd like.

They are too young to work out their differences if their regular responses to each other are as aggressive as you indicate. Their actions reflect a lack of respect and love. These are character traits and until they have been trainied into the girls, neither will not be able to accept any encouragement to be polite or fair. I strongly suggest the book, "What the Bible Says About Child Training" by Fugate. Regardless of your faith background, you will find it very helpful in explaining and giving examples of effective character training. And don't be fooled that the problem is with one child - there is always one instigator and one responder - and they aren't always playing the same roles. Get this under control right away, before they are too big to handle. God starts them out tiny so we can mold them when they are young and smaller than us! Imagine the potential damage this same scenario could wreak in your home, if you replaced "5" and "7" with "14" and 16"! Tame that rebellion monster before it's too late!

Been there, seen that SAHM of seven, ages 27 yrs - 16 mos. Two are girls only three years apart who pushed each others buttons regularly.

Your five year old needs to learn it is inappropriate--and not very nice to be rude to her older sister. It doesn't make any difference if the older one "over reacts" that is a whole different issue. If your five year old continues to do this for attention, she will do it at school and everywhere else when she feels the need for attention. Children need and want attention and they do not care what kind of attention it is. Before it escalates to the "hitting" part, try to do this. . .give your seven year old all the attention. Talk to her about how SHE is feeling. Do not give the younger one any attention. This really worked with two of my children who were having these same kind of issues. It was amazing how the behavior changed when the younger one realized all "his/her" attention was going to the older child. Hope this helps you.

Kids only behave badly because they know they can get away with it. They need rules and they need to be told when they break a rule. In our house, there is a "no" fighting rule. When there is an argument, we act as if they are adults and have them talk through it. In your situation, the five-year-old would have to explain why she stood in front of the television and the seven-year-old would have to explain her violence. After the talk, they would need to hug and apologize. When they know they have to explain themselves and the end result is to apologize, they will learn how to behave in the "real world". As adults we have to do this. I wouldn't use any reward for good behavior because that is not reality. They need to know how to resolve arguments in a calm manner.

I have a very head strong older child who loves to be large marge and in charge. There are ways to let the older one be in charge at times, but not in a hurtful way.

This has been my solution: Find what motivates them. My oldest is motivated by money. She is a budding entreprenerialist and was at the young age of probably 7 or 8. So we started a program for her to change her behavior by curbing the negative but also rewarding the positives. We used pennies and nickels. She could relate to this. Any time she did something negative, hit, yell, talk back, not listen, etc., we put a penny in a bowl. Anytime she did something positive, give hugs to parents (which were rare thats why we chose this) shared with siblings, did a chore around the house, etc, she got a nickel. If she got a penny she couldn't earn any nickels until the penny(ies) were gone, but she never loses any nickels and she can work off,by helping around the house, any pennies.

After my daughter gets 10 nickels she can choose 1 of a few things as a reward: 1 hour stay up late, go to a movie with mom or dad, pick a movie from the rental place for the whole family to watch with popcorn, or a $5 giftcard to any store of their choice.

We just kind of made up this program, some of it I have heard of before, I am a social worker, by trade and work with kids. But nothing beats having your own "spirited child" and mine definitely qualifies as that. She has some "sensory" issues for sure with noise, but not being able to change that our house has people that make noise and the world can't always be quiet, we need to teach her how to cope with that and this program has really taught her that things that she is motivated by are worth restraining her emotions and it is not worth the fight to get "pennies" or in trouble because then she can't get what she wants. Our house has had more peace and quiet since we have started this program and we as parents feel more control over the situation. We also can use this method out in public and feel less the need to yell, and get upset and make a scene, but just have to say "I hope I don't have to give you a penny" and if she is in one of those moods, she gets one or two and then stops her behaviors, but most times, she stops right there.

Anyways. That is my advice. It may seem complicated, but it is really easy, just needs to be consistent as in anything else!

Good luck!

5 yr old finds herself in charge of 7 yr old's responses
when 5 yr old antagonizes, remove her i.e. stands in front of t.v., and have her take a time out for the behavior
Also, ask 7 yr old to let 5 yr old know she will spend some time with her playing (board game, etc) if she does't antagonize...but if she does it, she gets no attention. It would be absolutely the best thing if 7 yr old could turn her back when 5 yr old does this type of thing. NO attention is worse than negative attention, if that's what she's looking for.