Sigh. Families.
My sister is not very responsible. She's pretty lazy. She is 32 with 3 kids and lives with my parents. She's tried to live on her own a few times but each time came back alone and pregnant. She is not responsible, but she has had some tough circumstances in her past. It's just some background; I'm not judging her decisions. My mother, God love her, takes care of my sister and the kids. She hates it and loves it.
My sister and mother call me each week, seperately, to complain about each other. My sister hates that my mom "tries to raise her kids" and my mom hates that my sister "does absolutely nothing."
They sometimes try this force of will fight where they end in a standoff. For example, my sister does not bathe her children out of laziness, and my mom refuses to as a matter of principle, trying to get my sister to do it. Last time when I visited, I have to tell them that the kids smell horrible. Oh yeah, they say, they haven't showered in 3 weeks. THREE WEEKS. I'm nauseous.
I tried to get each of them to tell each other how they feel. For each problem I give them every idea or solution my brain can think of. Not being a parent myself could cloud some of my judgement, I mean a lot of this stuff I just don't know yet because I haven't tried to raise a kid yet.
They don't try any of my suggestions. They can't just talk about it; they scream at each other. They both refuse counciling.
I'm pretty far removed from this as we don't live near each other. We talk on the phone and see eachother a few times a year. I don't feel like I need to police their relationship, but I'm out of ideas to tell them when they complain. I can't solve anything, so what should I do? Just listen, let them vent like women need to do? Tell them I don't want to hear it? Something else?
ETA:
They are 13, 7 and 3. Two are old enough to clean themselves but don't regularly. At my last visit I did get them to shower and bathed the little one. I text the oldest frequently to ask how things are going and she says they shower every few days, which my mom says too. It's one of their "chores." It was one incident that they say they don't do anymore, but not being there I don't know for sure. Perhaps I could check with their teachers.
The house is pretty clean. They do eat regular meals, my mom does make them a hot breakfast, packs lunch and makes dinner every day.
I do of course care very much for these kids. If calling CPS is what needs to be done, I will do this.
Stop taking those phone calls. Just say, "This is not my problem, work it out with mom/sis." Maybe you'll tick them off and they will gripe about you to each other instead of pestering you about the other. :-)
Good grief. If I found out that my nephews and nieces hadn't showered or bathed in 3 weeks, I'd be calling social services on your sister AND your mom.
Do these kids get fed? What's the house look like?
Something is really wrong here. You need to call social services and someone needs to care about these kids. Your mother and sister are ridiculous and you need to care about these kids more than them.
That's what needs to happen.
Dawn
If it stresses you out, I think you ought to tell them you don't want to hear it. The fact that they would let children go three weeks without bathing is neglectful...I would've reported that WHOLE situation to CPS. I'm sorry if that seems harsh...I know you love them...but that is just sad. Your instincts are absolutely right, and you don't have to be a mother to have motherly common sense. There are skin diseases you can get from not being clean...not to mention other problems. How sad.
And you know that they are both wrong...and codependent. It probably won't change. They might be better off together, who knows...you've left me feeling concerned for the welfare of your nieces and/or nephews. I am very sorry for you...I wish I had more advice for you!
Codependent to say the least.
I was in a similar situation once (although I was only really the complaining from O. side) and I just said "You know, I don't like that we spend all of our phone time talking about XYZ, when really, I want to talk about how we are and what we've been up to. Lets agree not to talk about XYZ since that's between you and abc, ok?
P.S. not bathing kids for weeks at a time is, IMO, neglect!
I find it disturbing and appalling that your mother would allow those kids to go unbathed for 3 weeks, in an effort to get your sister to step up to the plate. I would stop trying to solve their problems for them, and get CPS involved.
You need to call CPS. This is deplorable. Those poor innocent babies should not be caught in the middle of a lazy, irresponsible mother and a grandma that refuses to help to prove a point.
I agree with the others. Other adults that interact with these children will notice their uncleanliness and will take it upon themselves to call CPS. Depending on the severity of the situation, the children will be removed from the home. Your sister and mom really need to do some growing up and fast for the sake of these children. God Bless them!!
I hope you intervene for the sake of your nieces and/or nephews.
HTH,
A.
If you've tried everything, and they just fight with each other and refuse any help, then it's time to involve the authorities, because they will MAKE them take care of these kids. Don't stand by and wait for them to start parenting these poor kids. They aren't doing it. And it's the kids who are suffering, big time. Call social services and tell them what you've seen. Obviously what you are doing -- being a sounding board for both of them -- isn't doing anybody any good.
How old are the kids? I ask because if they are school aged, I am sure the teachers and other kids have noticed the uncleanliness and CPS may well be on the horizon (not to mention cruel remarks from other kids).
Your sister and mom need to learn to deal with each other in a healthier manner at least as it pertains to the kids. Can you talk to the two of them separately and/or together as necessary? You sister really needs to step up as mom and your mom needs to not mother her grandchildren. Your sister should tell your mom that she appreciates all she does for her but that she really wants her to enjoy being grandmom. Your mom needs to insist on responsibilities for those in her home (they should be shared).
I would call CPS and tell them what you told us about the bathing, etc. ask for their input. They may be able to recommend resources or maybe they have a "kick in the pants" visit they can do when a family needs help but not like a danger situation. Good luck!
I get the same thing with my 35 yr old sister living at home but luckily there are no kids. Same thing...life struggles and i live far away. I either tell them I don't want to hear it, let it roll off my shoulders, or on the days that I feel like giving input, tell them that they chose this for themselves and if they don't like the situation to change it. Your mom's just enabling her by taking her in every time. As for the kids, yeah not bathing for 3 weeks is gross but that seems like it was one incident. As long as they are fed and a clean house they will be fine. My kids only bathe every other night in the winter. I'm pretty sure the 13 and 7 year old will start doing it on their own when they get peer comments at school. Just do what you can when you are with them and keep the lines of communication open. That's what they need from you.
Listen if you want but then don't complain about having to listen. But don't even bother giving advice. It is, as you said, venting. If you don't want to hear it, then you have to tell them. And if they continue to talk about it, you have to tell them you have to go and say goodbye. If they complain, criticize, etc., then say something about how it is the same story, blah, blah, blah and you have no training to help them. Tell them if it is that bad, then they need to get some professional help. Determine your boundaries and stick to them. And by all means, don't bring any of this home. Your family does not need to hear any more.
As others have said, if you feel there is neglect, you must call CPS for the kids' sake. They need someone to stand up for them.
Keep out of it. If one calls trying to trash talk the other, tell her you can't be a part of it, they need to talk to each other about their issues, and that you'd like to talk about something else. Boundaries and assertiveness are your friends.
I'm posting this after the SWH. I can see how CPS would not get involved here; they have much tougher cases and far more troubled families to deal with. Still -- what a mess. You sister has serious issues and your mother is an enabler.
But YOU have the big advantage of not living near them; be glad you don't or you'd really be dropped in the drama.
Regarding phone calls complaining to you: Do you have caller ID? I would get it and use it. If one of them calls and you don't feel like talking, don't pick up. Call back, yes; you clearly do want some relationship with them both; but do it when the time is right for you, not them. Picking up when they call is probably picking up at a moment when the caller is angry with the other person and primed to dump complaints on you. Calling on your schedule, not answering on their schedule, might mean you are talking when they are less ticked at each other.
Also, I would just take or make calls less often and use the mail. Yep, send those three kids not only birthday cards but the occasional funny card for no reason at all. Send your sister or mom a card, or even a small package -- not a big gift but something that shows you think of them. (My aunt sends us occasional packages of clippings from the comics, which is a lot of fun for my daughter and me.) You can always tell them, "I'm trying to spend less time on the phone and more effort on sending folks cards and notes." Say it with a big smile.
If you are stuck in a complaint conversation please, please stop giving them every idea that occurs to you. You mean well but believe me -- when folks make these calls they do not want your good ideas and solutions; they only want to complain and preferably to hear you say "yes, you're right, mom/sis is such a pain." Of course if they were sensible they'd be calling for help but they don't want help, they want to vent, and you should not have to listen to it. I would stop offering any advice at all and would just change the topic -- every single time. If the get that hint, they may also get mad at you for time and whine, "You're not listening to me." To that I'd calmly say..."I'm listening, but I don't have any response since you want to vent and I'm not going to badmouth mom/sis. Look, I'd really like to know what the kids are up to. How's Jenny's dance class going?....."
Change the topic, focus on the kids and not on the adults, ask specific questions about the kids' activities, news in their town, mutual friends, etc. Being specific makes it harder for them to blow you off and go right back to bashing the other person. In short, do not engage them on the complaints when you do talk; push them toward talking about things other than themselves and their relationship with each other; don't offer advice, ever, because that fuels their complaints; and don't take their calls but be the one who MAKES calls -- on your own schedule.
What first comes to my mind.. does your sister suffer from depression of some sort?
I mean to let a 3 yr old , let alone the other kids not bathe for three weeks.... just doesn't sound right to me.. I know 3 yr olds still have accidents, I can't imagine the child must have been comfortable... you just can't get clean enough without a good bath... Something is quite amiss here.. Just by your indicating that Grandma has to help with the three kids leads me to think from the get go, there is more to your sister not bathing the kids.. Truly, I do wonder about her mental health.. perhaps an intervention of some sort is needed..
There is some bigger drama going on than mom doesn't bathe the kids. trust your gut instincts.. just because the 13 yr doesn't complain about it, (kids are trained) doesn't mean something isn't fishy..
I question your mother's state of mind too... she says NO to counseling.. even if your sister isn't neglectful all the time, fact is.... she is at times.. therefore, as a grandparent who is helping to raise 3 children.. I'd want some outside help... it makes me question why grandma won't take it...
I wonder is Grandma helping to cover things up because she fears kids will be taken away.. I just get this feeling that there is more to this story than meets the eye... and even you might not be privy to it.....
I would look up childrens' services in the area and talk to a counselor and get a professional opinion on this.. even a child Psychologist and listen to what they have to say..
good luck and for the kids too... wishing them all the best
Your sister created her situation by making poor choices and your poor mother is trying to help, but is only enabling her to continue being a non-productive, co-dependent adult with few life-skills. I personally would not allow either of them to complain to me about the other person. The kids not bathing is not great, but is not a safety issue. It is more indicative of your sister's poor parenting skills. Don't invite yourself into their drama. If you see something unsafe then get involved and say something otherwise, let them play this drama out at their home. And by all means, don't let her move in with you.
Both your mother and sister sound very dysfunctional and codependent. Who lets kids not bathe for three weeks, on some kind of warped principle?
I don't know what to advise you. Both adults sound nuts. Keep an eye on the kids, and maybe go over and make them bathe occasionally.
And don't listen to their complaints about each other. They are equally at fault.
Are there any Independent Living Centers/Center for Independent Living in the area where your sister lives that could possibly help her? Living with your mother isn't healthy for her, nor is it healthy for your mother. They're feeding off each other rather than helping each other.
When an adult child lives in a parent's home, their relationship goes back to the worst that it was when the adult child was a teenager. And in this case, you have a sister who sounds like she's rebelling against Mom in the only way she knows how right now... refusing to take her parenting advice. Except your sister doesn't entirely know how to be a mom herself.
And CIL could help your sister look for parenting classes. They can help her find affordable housing and a job. They can help her transition and coach her and teach her some job skills and life skills. They can do this free of charge as a non-profit organization, and do it because if she has any type of disability (and that includes clinical, chronic depression and/or anxiety or a neurological disorder) then she would qualify for services with the CIL.
This is what I do for my day job. I kind of wish your sister lived in CT. If she does, contact me privately and I'll give you my contact information.
