6 Year Old DD, Discipline, and Mom Vs. Dad...

Is he going to be defensive and angry if you say this to him:

"I think this difference in how we handle these things that seem small to you is this: When your boys were small and were over on weekends, you never really had to discipline them . You tried to keep it fun, but still expected them to remember their manners. Now we have a daughter that needs to be disciplined every day and when she's upset about not getting her way, it's easier for you to make her laugh over something or act silly or distract her, then expect her to listen and cooperate. And then I'm the "bad guy" for expecting her to understand that she's not in charge and she can't just order us around." Add: "When you joke with her about things I have just tried to make an issue of politeness or discipline, I feel bad and I feel as if I am made the 'bad cop.' I know you may feel you did not mean to do that to me but I want you to know what I am feeling so we can work on a common parenting style." (Classic formula: When you say/do X, I feel Y.)

Recognize that? It's almost entirely from your own post.

If you and he cannot have a discussion as frank as that, you and he need to take a parenting class together pronto or see a family counselor for specific parenting help.Certainly try Love and Logic which others recommend, or Supernanny's excellent advice on parenting in her books.

You and dad must get on the same page about how to handle even small things or your daughter will know -- well, she does already -- that she can play daddy off against mommy. And you, yourself, will end up resenting him for making you "bad cop" all the time while he gets to be "fun dad" all the time. I have seen that dynamic with friends and it is very damaging to a marriage. You and he have an issue because as you so rightly note, he has a "fun dad" past with his sons and that is hard to break; it is what seems like normal child-rearing to him but it's not.

Yes, choosing battles is important and you should evaluate whether you're not choosing wisely. But sometimes small things do matter. I agree with you over the toothpaste, for instance. "You get what you get, and you don't get upset" is a good mantra. She does need to learn that she can't wail over her socks or her toothpaste every day and that if she makes a fuss over these little things, you -- AND Dad -- will be less and less likely to say yes to bigger things like doing fun activities. I think that a consequences system, with one chance to fuss; one warning; and a clear knowledge on her part that a second warning brings a specific consequence that is the same EVERY single time -- could really help. She also needs to understand that the issue is not the flavor of her toothpaste; you could not care less about that; the issue is her tone and her repeated "requests" once given an answer. I think you and she need to sit down together when things are calm and good and talk about what you will do, every single time, when she does X. Action X brings consequence Y (losing TV time is often a good consequence if she values that). Treat her as if "you are old enough and smart enough to understand this and I do not want you to feel surprised when I say, 'This is the first warning and you know what happens on the second warning. What will you lose?" "TV time." "Now, will you do Y?"

Do be sure she's getting some choices that give her a feeling of control -- if the sock fuss is because you put out what she should wear, then put her in charge of laying out her own clothes. Or if the TV choice fuss is because your show is on right now, tell her that she can see her show at X o'clock but if she demands or even mentions a channel change again, she will not see it at all. (Or as we might say in our house, "The answer to your request is yes, but it is not yes this instant." It takes a LONG time for kids to absorb that -- learning to wait for what they want -- but it does work; however, Dad simply must be on board too.)

It sounds like she is craving more independence and you may be interpreting it as having the world center around her. If she wanted the minty toothpaste, tell her she can get it herself. If she is as strong willed as you say she is trying loosening the reins. You may be surprised that she can handle a lot more without your help and then your world won't revolve around her.

Oh honey I can sympathize-I too battle with this but we (My husband and I) are slowly getting on the same page, talking more about set standards for our children and working as a team in raising them. Boy is it hard work to be a wife & parent right?! I love reading other peoples post because I know I am not alone. Keep your head up, communicate with your husband about clear boundaries & consequences for your DD, and remember we all go through this

I would talk to DH. Tell him that you understand that he doesn't like to see her upset, but that you need backup. You are starting to see that this leads to that leads to constant fighting.

If my DH (also a dad x 3 with DD being youngest) hears DD crying about something, he'll come to me to find out what I told her no about and why. If you and DH are not on the same page, then she will always go to him when she wants her way. I would tell DH that you do try to be reasonable - x or y - but that many times she pitches a fit when you just need her to get ready. There are mornings my DD gets NO choices because she stared at her feet for 15 minutes telling herself stories. I'm not a mean mom. I'm a practical mom. Bell rings when the bell rings.

In this case, is it a problem to go get your toothpaste, with your permission? I find that my DD really wants to be independent and if I sometimes say, "Ok, but you have to do x and y" she'll help me. If my DD demands something vs asking I'll simply say, "That's interesting." She knows now if she doesn't ask nicely, she doesn't get any other answer.

If there are things he thinks you are too strict about, talk about them OUTSIDE of her presence. You and he can disagree behind your own door, but should be fairly united to her face.

You can similarly look at what he does and try to decide is he giving in or using another technique? If my DD is fussing and DH puts socks on his ears to make her laugh and the socks get on her feet, is it a bad thing? Or just his way of getting the job done and making her stop whining?

Kids are tough. Try to keep the long view and communicate with DH. Try to not sweat the little things and to agree on the big issues. If she doesn't eat her dinner, what happens? If she lies, what happens? If she wants to wear the wrong shoes...meh, whatever. DH and I don't always agree on details. But we do see pretty much eye to eye on big matters.

First of all the discipline factor is pretty much out of control if flipping out is an option to discipline for her at age 6. I'm a single parent with three well-behaved kids-my oldest daughter is 7- and when they were toddlers, not only were they not allowed to boss me around, but they were CERTAINLY not allowed to throw tantrums about consequences to their own actions-that was a separate and sometimes even more serious offense in my book, so the habit did not form. Now at times if they get frustrated about something I've said and start to attempt a little foot stomping or something, one swift warning will nip it because that IS NOT ALLOWED. Period. 6 is on the very old side to establish this pattern. She's extremely set in her ways, so YES, you need a much firmer system with much less lee-way, but that's your SECOND problem. Your first is your husband.

It sounds harsh to put your foot down and demand good behavior without room for fits, but in the big picture when she is not allowed to behave wrongly, you will have a much more fun and positive home where you can be the fun joker too. People we know have no idea I was "tough" on my kids when they were little, because now I'm just that laid back fun mom with three nice kids who don't run all over me. So you and your husband need to be on the SAME PAGE as to what discipline is for. He's stuck in the moment thinking he doesn't want her flipping out (should not be allowed) not thinking of how much better it will be when those episodes vanish WITH DISCIPLINE. If he refuses to participate in effective discipline, then he at LEAST needs to get out of your way and not undermine you. My kid's dad did not do any child rearing really, but he also does not contradict me, nor I him if he's around.

You and your husband need to work this out. Then you need to tackle your daughter. Don't give up, mom, or you're going to be really ashamed of yourself for having a terrible, wreckless, demanding, disrespectful teenager. Which you already know.

Toothpaste episode: If she had asked nicely for the minty paste, you could have told her to go get it herself. Running to fetch things for a six year old is rarely necessary. I don't do it for my 4 year old anymore. But since she didn't, I would have told her no and then disciplined her firmly for any outburst. That's because I would have established that rule long ago so she would have had the opportunity to avoid all conflict by just brushing her teeth.

1) Toughen yourself up "Back to Basics Discipline" by Janet Campbell Matson is a great book

2) GET THROUGH to your husband

3) Get your daughter out of the power seat.

The problem is not your daughter. She is doing typical things for a child her age. Frustrating, yes. Unusual, no.

The problem is that you and your husband are not on the same page. And your daughter has learned that, if she stomps her feet and has a tantrum, she will get her way.

Your husband's actions with his first kids are not unusual for "weekend dads" but I can tell you he did his kids no favors by failing to discipline them, and they were much harder for their mom to deal with when they left "party with Dad" and returned to "reality with Mom."

Yes, parenting is about choosing battles, but even the ones you choose are not going to work out because your husband doesn't choose them. You two need to agree. If you have to read some parenting books or get some parenting advice from a counselor, do it. Your child is going to benefit from this. You and your husband are doing her no favors because the rules are not consistent or enforced. Your husband's approach is easiest in the very short run, but it's going to create a nightmare for her teachers and her friends' parents, and she is going to be impossible to manage as a pre-teen and teen. Your family is already 6 years into this unworkable style of discipline so I'd make significant changes starting today.

We have all probably had this struggle. Let's start with, "Choosing your battles". It is a moving target. At 6 years old, it is time to move on to other battles. She should be able to get the job (brushing) done and move on. She is stalling because she probably doesn't really want to brush her teeth, or go to bed, or do what ever is next. Otherwise known as manipulating.

Manners were important to Dad for the boys and not the little girl? Why wouldn't he want to see his little girl exhibit good manners? What a better place to start manners than at home with your family.

If this were going on my house, I would lay it down. Tell them all, "You young lady are going to start using you manners and asking for things in a kind way. You are not going to pick and choose when to brush your teeth, you will brush your teeth when I ask you. And, you Mr. M are going to support this. If manners were good enough for the boys, they are good enough for our little girl.

From that point on you can ask, "Did I hear manners?" Give her the opportunity to correct it. If Dad wants to continue with the behavior, when she demands mint toothpaste, "Mr. M, she is asking for mint toothpaste".

We went through this for a while until dad saw what a sucker he was.

Best wishes.

It's always hard to strike a balance, because even parents who mostly agree are going to have different limits and what they will and will not tolerate.
The toothpaste thing? I wouldn't have cared. I would have let her use my toothpaste. Of course I wouldn't have gone to get it for her, at six she's old enough to walk in your bathroom and help herself. I don't see why you needed to pick that battle.
If these are the kinds of things you're fighting about I would say to re evaluate. Some things are non negotiable, like wearing your seat belt, or taking a bath. But the more choices you give her the less she will argue. It doesn't mean you always let her have her way, but when you are TOO controlling you just set her up to resist that control. And choices are a great way to learn by natural consequence. For example, if she doesn't want to wear her coat, let her go without and be cold. If she doesn't want any of what's being offered at dinner let her be hungry. If she whines of throws a fit, send her to her room to calm down. She'll learn!

Take a Parenting with Love and Logic class with your husband. Your daughter needs boundaries and you guys need to be on the same page.

Discipline is about setting clear standards with clear consequences that happen every time. It is also important to learn how to separate out your emotions from discipline. For example, many parents feel frustrated or upset when their child is upset and therefore are more reactive or passive, depending on their style, and then discipline becomes about power, punishment, or simply relieving the parents stress levels. It is vital to keep discipline about the child's behaviors only.

Your husband may not understand that his decision to give in when she starts to accelerate her fit is exactly what is teaching her to do that behavior. I would guess that he really just wants her to be happy and calm. Life doesn't work that way though. She will experience disappointment throughout her life and it will benefit her more if you teach her the skills to feel her frustration and express it appropriately rather than trying to take away all the experiences she doesn't like.

Seems like your hubby is trying to be the Disneyland dad. I would let him take charge. He leaves before she gets up - get her up early enough that he can get her ready and then let her sit and watch cartoons until time to go. He will change his mind when he's the one who has to deal with a spoiled, entitled child every morning!

Tell him I too hated to see my child unhappy and went to great lengths to try to keep a smile on her face at all times. HUGE mistake! She is now a very "entitled" adult and it has caused her a LOT of problems. Talk about mommy guilt! He can live with this same guilt if that's what he wants. There will be a price for he and your daughter to pay if things don't change.

I have a 6 year old son as well and my husband and I seem to sometimes disagree on how to handle things. However, he sees that the way I have been suggesting and implementing works well for this specific child.

So in your story, I would have let her us the minty toothpaste after asking her to ask politely. That's not a hill I'd die on. But, if it had been a long and difficult day already, I would have put my foot down.

With my 6 year old, if he starts to act difficult, I simply give him his two choices and he gets to pick. One choice gets him his way (normally) and the other gets him a punishment. So for the toothpaste thing, I would have told her the choices were to ask nicely and get the minty flavor, or be rude and I pick the flavor (which will NOT be minty). I ask then if the choices are understood and what happens with each of the choices. 9.5 times out of 10, this works.

I was shocked the other day when my son stomped his feet and started crying. I just looked at him and asked what in the world he was doing. He was frustrated over something (small in my book, big in his) but I told him his approach was unacceptable and inappropriate. We have discissed what these words mean and they are not allowed in our house. So he knows what to do, most often by just prompting him with a few key words.

I suggest you two get on the same page with her and do it soon - or she is going to learn to walk all over one or both of you, making it harder on both of you.

Good luck!

I'm glad you're having your vent here and not at your house.

Has there been this struggle at our house? I can't think of too many folks I know who *haven't* had a struggle of this kind!

It sounds as if you and your husband might be, potentially, a really good combination - you're different enough to provide more to your children - IF you work together. You must be on the same side. In fact, that's more important than almost anything.

Right now you're being opponents - and a strong-willed child will take advantage of that. Not that she's being evil, but a kid needs to know who is in charge and, if she's not sure, she will try to be in charge herself.

I'm also suspecting that your role and your husband's role in this sort of interaction have pretty well solidified.

Think about doing this: tell your husband you love him more than anything (that's true, isn't it?) and that you intend to find a counselor who can teach you how to work with HIM better so you can be a better team. If he isn't interested (or if he's suspicious that this will mean more rants about him), go without him. You can learn some valuable and even earthshaking things by yourself.

1) She didn't ask nicely.

2) She's a big girl, she can get it herself.

3) If dad thinks it's so important for her to have it, and she is unable to get it herself, then HE can get it. You're tired, and you're not everyone's slave.

I completely agree with Diane and Mom2KCK, and I will echo that this isn't a hill to die on.

But you and husband do have to get on the same page, because you don't want your daughter to enter her teens with parents who aren't on the same page. I had to be the "bad guy," in my home, and my husband undermined me on top of it, and it did a lot of damage to our marriage. My kids were really good outside the home and at school, but teen angst and constant misery (over NOTHING) can really make a household unpleasant. And most teens --with the exception of teens who are abused or neglected who might have a valid reason for being unpleasant -- will act pretty unjustifiably unpleasant for a few years simply because they CAN. (And I'm basing that statement on my experience with dozens of teens, not just my own.) So when you and husband are on the same page, and you both strongly tell the teen, "KNOCK OFF the unpleasantness!" they will. But if dad has to be Mr. Fun Softy Best Buddy, then your teen will feel completely entitled to act like a brat. You cannot, I repeat CANNOT, instill appropriate behavior in your children when another parent in the home is actively undermining you.

So find a way to come to an agreement with your husband on acceptable/unacceptable behavior before your daughter is a teen.

I also completely agree with everything Leigh says.

Sit down and talk to your DH. If what bothers you is the extra effort of her requests, talk to him about that. I think both of you should focus on what is reasonable here. In the example of the toothpaste, why didn't you have her get the toothpaste herself. If that's what she wants, help her be responsible for it.

Then, sit down as a family and come up with some general rules to cover these kinds of things, if you can. Have your daughter brainstorm ideas for solving some of these problems, and empower her to do so.

When our son was younger, I think my husband and I were further apart in discipline styles-- he did the 'fun dad' things more often when Kiddo was a toddler. Over time, we've gotten into a good groove as co-parents for the most part. Some of this has been my doing: instead of just getting upset when he was being a softie, I've started being more proactive. This often means identifying patterns I've observed during the day; different parts of a day's routine can become routinely problematic at different times, so once I see "oh, this is going on while tooth-brushing is happening", I can talk to my husband separately from our boy before the problem comes up again. (Instead of talking about something that bugs me immediately afterward, when it would be easier for my husband to think I was being reactive and maybe become defensive.)

"I've noticed that when you are brushing Kiddo's teeth, she's asking you to get special toothpaste for her. Her tone with us is bothering me-- it sounds very bossy. What do you think about us saying "yes" and then telling her that if she wants different toothpaste, she can go get it herself? This way, she gets what she wants but she's doing the work-- we are allowing her have her way without letting her boss us around."

My son is six and can get this way, pretty bossy at times. I had to remember not to react, to stay calm and just say "oh, well, I'm doing this now but when I'm done, I can get that for you" or "Oh, I'm busy, you are welcome to get that yourself" or the like. Or even "yes, sweetie, you can have that next time, this is what I have for you right now." Oh, don't like it? You are welcome to fix it to how you want it, if that's reasonable. .... see where I'm going with this?

Lastly, I have found that when I talk privately with my husband about expectations and what I will be doing, he will know in advance my reasons for what I do and say in regard to discipline. If we have a recurring issue with behavior, already having a consequence agreed-upon beforehand makes things a lot easier. Far less surprises that way and I think we feel more like a parenting team, working together instead of bumping along sort of winging it separately.

And I really, really liked what Leigh had to offer in her post. She picked up on some things I hadn't considered. Good points!