Question for Dr. Laura--but I'm Asking You!

I have been in abusive relationships. I have friends who have been in abusive relationships.

For my friends whose husbands' changed - it was not my job to forgive the husbands. If my friends could, then that's what mattered, and it would be incredibly unsupportive of me to be nasty to men they'd forgiven.

That said, they also know all they'd have to do if things didn't STAY changed is show up at my door with a suitcase...and I'd help.

I moved 2000 miles away from my abuser 20 years ago. I still keep tabs on where he is, just in case.

S., I am concerned about all of this. Yes, you are trying by going to counseling and you sound like you are giving your husband the benefit of the doubt, but here is what I want you to think truthfully about.

If one of your children was being treated by their spouse the way your husband treats you, what would you tell your child?

Do you think your children deserve to grow up in a household where the father is verbally abusive? Physically abusive to the one person they love more than anything else in the world? You their beloved mother?

What are your children learning from all of this?

My father was verbally and emotionally abusive to my mother and then was also very scary to me.. My sister was younger than me and the first time I saw my father spanking/hitting her I begged him to stop. I told him she was just a baby. I then begged my mother "Why don't YOU stop him?"

She said that was the day she realized, that we did not deserve to live like that. She had tried to cover for him long enough. I admire my mother so much for being strong enough to make him leave. It was not easy for us, but it was the right choice..

My father finally got help and is now happily married to a wonderful woman, but it took him until about the age of 50 to get his life together.. He finally took responsibility for all of his actions and asked for forgiveness..

Your mind, heart and soul are not worth this.. You deserve the very best from your spouse.

For him it's not so much about privacy as it is about hiding his secret (abusing you.) So I say tell people that need to be told (ie: those that you are asking for support and help) and get the help you need to move out and on with your life before it's too late. Good luck to you!

S., in my former relationship I was hit, kicked, thrown out of bed and the mattress pushed on top of me (at 1am), and finally ended up with a cocked and loaded 9mm stuck to my forehead. So believe me, I know what you are going through. Honestly, I'm not sure I agree with the advice to tell "everyone" that you are "unknowingly in a relationship with an abusive man." Too much information . . . what a great way to alienate the people you would like to have support you. Acquaintances don't need this information. So I disagree with your counselor and the books on this point. However, if your husband is even able to discuss the situation, which it sounds like he is, there is hope. For your kids sake and for yours, he must leave until he gets help. Has your counselor worked with you on co-dependency? You are getting all wrapped up in "what is he going to do?" and "how are people going to treat him?" NOT your problem. He has to face the consequences of his own actions. Worry about you and your kids and take action to make it better. . . he's created his own nightmare. Do him a favor and let him live it. That's how real change will be brought about.

I think if you choose to tell people, don't do it with revenge in your heart, do it because you are making a choice to save yourself and have a better life. You are shining a light on the reality of your situation and asking for the support of other people. Your safety and happiness is important. Certainly more so than him saving face. Good luck.

Tell people what you need to do get help and to get support. Don't go around blabbing for revenge.

Wow, you have been dealing with a difficult situation. I'm so sorry. I think you'll see a variety of responses from the "normal population" but personally, I say f#$k him. Who cares about "helping him"? Only HE can help his own behavior, you are in no way responsible for his awfulness. And DON'T let him manipulate you into getting mad at your best friend. He could be totally lying to you to--you guessed it--ISOLATE you from her. If he has friends and acquaintences turn a cold shoulder on him, then that is exactly what he deserves. I'm no therapist, but what I do not detect in your post is ANGER...anger at living in this situation, anger at him for his deplorable behavior. Get pissed off at him! And since he obviously has the mentality of a child, let him get treated like a child and receive the consequences of his actions. Oh, I am so fired up now! Good luck.
Oh, and p.s. He is not going to change. I repeat: He is not going to change.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation, but yeah for you for speaking out and helping yourself - especially after so long. My first instinct is to say "If those people judge your husband and acts so snobbish, then they aren't the supportive, forgiving friends you want to have around you." You want people who will walk along side you, not judge you from their self-made pedastal.

Also, unless the problem becomes public, there's no need for him to change. I also had to confront my ex-husband about a sinful situation and gave him an ultimatum to end it or move out. Sadly, he chose to leave our marriage for his own desires, but looking back, it freed me to find someone who loves me more than I thought I could be loved. Just be ready to follow through on whatever he decides.

You are still intimidated and feel sorry for him by your statement: "On one hand, I say he deserves what he gets, but on the other, having people shun him isn't exactly helping him, either."
Get your escape plan ready and just go if that's what you want to do. It sounds like you've been brow beaten and isolated for quite a long time.
If you are choosing to stay in the marriage you need to start making friends, help him make friends, find some couples to be friends with, have bbq's and such... there must be people in your church you can hang out with?
It sounds to me like you want to just go, so just go and dont' look back.
Head back to moms and start fresh.

First, I feel for you! I'm glad you're getting help! Can you just leave now? I really don't think your husband will change and the sooner you leave the better. Just worry about yourself and children (not sure if you have any--you didn't mention it). You mentioned you're going to counseling--is he? If not, he definitely won't change. Who cares who knows! It won't change his behavior for the better--but he might get more abusive. You seem like a very level headed and brave person. Just go now!

Well if you plan on staying with him, then I guess you shouldn't give out sorted details, but enough to let people know your husband was a difficult person. If you were my friend and you told me what he was doing to you, I am not sure I could invite him over to dinner and not want to hit him over the head with a bottle of wine. But if you are going to leave him, then don't keep it in to protect him, he made the mess he has to deal with the consequences. Since he knows you have a counselor does that mean he kows he has a problem? If your out of state friends are shunning him, that should be his wake up call, some people need it "in the face" to get they have problems. I wish you the best of luck and am very sorry you didn't know you were marrying an abuser. My husbands dad was an abuser and he was sweet and wonderful to his mom before marriage then lost his ever loving mind. He hit her infront of the kids, brought women home and demanded she serve dinner to them and other horrible things. She never saw it coming. They had to disappear in the night, she brought the kids to her parents and went back to him to divorce him good and proper. He beat her senseless but she got her divorce, her children and moved on with her life, went to night school, became a pediatric RN and met and married a wonderful man a few years later. My hubs bio dad died a few years back, and his mom said he should forgive his dad, she did, she is an awesome woman, my hubs ad sisters do not forgive and celebrated his death. I hope there are no kids involved. Please take care of yourself and don't put yourself in any unneccassary hazardous situations. Good luck.

Informing people is a step where you take some control.
If it bothers your husband that people know, on some level he's ashamed at his behavior - he cares what other people think. (What rat wants people to know he's a rat?)
People who are in abusive situations have fences in their minds (I think of the movie "Chicken Run").
You need to decide how much you want to be free, because telling people is where you begin to dismantle that fence.

Your post is really vague about what is abusive about your husband. I am sorry, but I no longer take it at face value when a lady tells me her husband is verbally abusive, even if her counselor and books have told her that. Why? Because I have been told the same thing about MY husband, that he was verbally abusive, that we didn't know normal, that he needed help, blah blah blah. I read the Emotionally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans. It sounded just like our relationship.

So, it may sound crazy to you, but are you really sure that your husband and you just don't get each other and are giving each other your worst? My husband isolates himself from people after work too, for cave time, and wanted me to do the same. One counselor could take that as controlling and abusive. A church leader told me, "So what?" You do whatever you want. What does it matter what your husband says?" Is your counselor a female? My biggest dilemma was all these female counselors and a male counselor (over the span of many years) told me that my husband was verbally abusive. But when I talked to male clergy, they didn't get where I was getting that from and thought I was overreacting. So for a while, I thought the male clergy people were jerks. Then, read a new book on how men tick, and Whoa! The males were right!!! I didn't get my husband at all!! I was pushing his buttons all the time without intending to, or even seeing that about me. All the things I was actively doing to try and fix my husband and make the marriage work were causing my husband to rebel against me and act like a surly, disrespectful teenager.

So I would say, DON'T tell the world that he is abusive. Tell it to a journal. If things get better, everyone will know you trashed him. Some will never forgive him and label him a jerk. Others will think that you have no class for airing your dirty laundry. Lots of women will hug you and tell you that you are so brave, blah blah blah. Do you really want any of those things? I would love it if you pmed me. I promise, I am only kind of psycho.

As far as what would Dr Laura say, I have heard her personally rip lots of female callers apart for labeling their husbands as verbally or emotionally abusive. She usually says, "have you ever called your husband a name, sworn at him, yelled at him, criticized him? Then you fit the definition, too, so think about it a little bit more and stop throwing the label out so easily. Don't blindly believe any counselor. Most of them are too feminist and Dr. Laura disagrees with that viewpoint towards men. She advocates understanding the way men tick and tells you that you have all the power. I could go on and on. It is a touchy subject for me because I have been in your shoes and I feel like I have finally woken up to the truth - lots of things men say and do look incredibly horrible to us women, but it is also vice versa for them. We can come across as completely cruel without seeing it in ourselves. If you are 100% sure that it is all your husband's fault, I would think twice. And I say all of these things to HELP you because I so wish I had the help earlier.

Edit: I just read your "so what happened?" I think that your husband is a big baby and you should leave him right now, without having a little talk or ultimatum. That is just inviting him to act up and break/throw things/ mess with your mind. I Pmed you and you can pm me back if you want the name of a local woman's shelter, because I know where one is that is very safe in Nampa.

Hi S.--
I haven't read the other responses, but I'm guessing that my thoughts will be quite different. This is going to sound weird, but here goes. Sometimes, when someone has a terrible temper the way you've described your husband, it is not only a psychological problem, but a physical one. In Chinese medicine the liver is the organ that represents anger. All sorts of things throw the liver out of balance--- most notably food allergies and toxins (that we get from processed food, the air we breathe, the plastic we eat off of, etc). My husband used to have big problems with anger that no matter how hard he tried he had a terrible time controlling it. We had his liver tested and it was off the charts imbalanced due to to the two things I said above. When we took him off the foods he was allergic to and did some simple things to help his body detoxify, it made it infinitely easier for him to control his temper. I also have a 6 year old with extreme food allergies. One of the first signs that he has eaten something he should have is uncontrollable temper tantrums.
Since I don't know the full extent of your situation I can't totally talk about the psychological aspects of his need to put you down to make himself feel better. I'm sure you probably got a lot of information from others from that perspective. And I'm sure you know that his behavior is related to some deep seated insecurities within himself. I know that when the physical body is balanced it makes it way easier to deal with your particular emotional issues. If you think he'd be interested in pursuing this idea I can help you navigate how to help him physically. From experience, I really think this could help. Let me know if you want more information.
Good luck in whatever comes in your future!
J.

I think that you are doing the right thing and what needs to be done. You sound like you are getting to the place that you need to be. But you need to make sure that WHEN you give him the ultimatum that you follow through with what you say you are going to do. Because if you don't that WILL make thing worse. I wish you luck and hope that things turn out well for you!!! You sounds like a really good person!

I understand your dilemma perfectly - you are a good writer!

The only advice I can think of for you is to think of yourself first, your husband second. As in, try to make some friends for you, and if you need to tell them, do! I probably wouldn't use that as an opening line (Hi, you seem really nice and my hubby is abusive, so would you like to get some coffee? Lol) but you need people to support you as friends, somewhat regardless of their opinion of your husband.

I don't see how it would be helpful to you to tell your grocery store clerk and people you meet on the street, unless you are working on developing your securities about the situation. Does that make sense?

Basically I would say that protecting his image for if/when he gets help is not as important as your need for support through this.