Mom Probs.

Ugh. No way I would send my kids over there unsupervised. I told my dad he had to put his guns and bullets away before we came to visit. I think he thought it was silly, but he complied. It's just common sense. Yes, I've had the "gun talk" with my son, but I have no doubt if he saw a gun lying around he would pick it up and accidentally blow someone's head off. And there's nothing acceptable about being drunk while you're supervising kids. She has no respect for you. Tell her sorry, no go.

I would absolutely insist that she give you specifics about her decision before you arrange visitation. You deserve to know what you are walking into and subjecting on the children. The whole arrangement, with its circumstances, seems toxic.

Sorry.

1) A dialogue is necessary. You don't take anyone's children without talking with/ communicating with their parents.

2) You don't get to do an end run around our safety rules for the children (guns locked and put away, gates up on stairs, not being drunk when they are with you, etc.), by saying "We'll only see the kids without you."

You can be as mad at me as you like mom, but I am still my children's mother. If you want to see my children, you will need to deal with me and my rules for them.

It's your choice, not mine, to cut them out of your life.
_________

And to you, hon. I'm sorry. It's unbelieveably hard when you have to parent your children AND your parents. NO you are not harming your children by insisting on a minimal safety standard. NO you are not harming your children by not allowing them to be alone with unsafe people.

The ball is (and always has been) in your mom's court. She's trying to "make it your fault" / blame shift... but it's NOT your fault. You have very simple, very basic, totally normal rules. If your parents can't abide by them, that's on them... not on you.

I'm not sure if I would be willing to go along with a proposed schedule of visitation regarding my children if the person who wrote it refused to talk to me. Who's in charge here? Maybe there's just more to the story.

I guess I don't know the back history of your relationship for her to come to this conclusion.

But if it was me and my mom no longer wanted a relationship with me then that would mean for me no relationship between her and my kids either.
If her visits would have to be supervised ( and your not the one doing it) then that would be a definite no for visits between them!

Since this is her wish, I think the only thing you can do it honor her choice about your relationship... but she would need to understand that you and your kids are a package deal. So no you = no grandkids either.

Sorry :(

Okay first of all I can relate to the mom issues- no I would not respond I would not show up for play dates and I would not let her see the kids. She doesnt want anything to do with you? well then just cut her out walk away if she can do this to what can she do to your kids? What happens when she decides maybe she would rather just see one of the kids and not the other? where do you draw the line. For the sake of you and your kids just stay away all together. That is my opinion and what I have had to do with my mom- I will not allow her to hurt my kids the way she has hurt me.

I don't think I'd want to allow my children to have a relationship with my parents if my parents weren't willing to have a relationship with me as well. It sends a really weird message to your children. And, unless you've done something horrible to your parents, why would they want to not have contact with you?. Also, aren't you worried that at some point your parents will turn on your children like they're turning on you and cut them out of their lives?

Besides, I only want positive influences in my kids lives. Someone who won't discuss with me any problems in our relationship isn't a positive influence. Especially if they need to have supervised visitation - and how the heck can you do that if you aren't allowed to do the supervising? What's to stop your parents from saying negative things about you and your husband if they don't like you so much?

Can you tell us more of the back story so we can help?

If it were me....this is what I would do

1) Print out a hard copy of her email
2) Reply to her email (making sure her email is attached on the bottom) stating
- We (DH & I) have received the email from you below while it did 'blindside' us, we will agree to your request to not ask for specifics of your reasoning and will no longer have any relationship with us (DH & I). At this time we are letting you know this once and for all that our family is a package deal. As you have chosen to not have a relationship with us, you have also chosen to not have a relationship with our children. We know this is not what you have wanted, but this is what WE have decided as the parents/heads of our family.
We wish you well and if you are ever wishing to change your minds then the four of us adults can meet and discuss the situation.
Sincerly.
X & X
3) If you use Outlook - send it with Revieved Receipt Requested & Read Receipt Requested
4) Print out a Hard Copy of your email (with her's attached)
5) If your use Outlook - When you get the notification emails for the receipts print those out as well

If for any reason she gets nasty or pulls the Grandparents Rights card - remind her politely that she has no legal grounds as you are the parents and it is her choice not to have a relationship with your family unit. I would at that point send her this in a Certified Return Receipt letter, telling her to not contact you again unless she is willing to have a relationship with the entire family unit on YOUR TERMS ONLY.

Girl, you don't owe your parents any "visitation". They don't have any rights and you and your husband call the shots. Don't let anyone make you feel guilty for protecting your kids.

Who will be doing the supervising for these visits? I agree with another poster who said that if they are not open to communication with you that they shouldn't be allowed to see your kids at all.

So sorry you have had to go through all this. I'm sure you are hurting over your parent's and brother's immature and toxic behavior. Stand strong! Your kids probably won't benefit from being around them anyway.

HUGS!

Annnnd you're trying to make nice with these people because...?

Look, take it from a woman with a mom severely lacking in anything that resembles mom behavior. Stick a fork in this situation, go to the counselor a few more times a month and pull a bandage off of this issue.

They are "done with you" because you're not willing to enable them, look the other way, and jeopardize your children? I'd be grateful for the excuse to move on. Are you losing your mother? Sounds like you've already lost her. Now all that's left is you accepting that before your kids lose you.

I had pretty much the same thing happen between me and my mom a year and a half ago. I got really tired of the way she was treating my son (age 7), saying negative things about him, only giving her love to my daughter, etc. I wrote her a long email basically saying please do not say negative things bc it does not help, yes I know my son can be hard, what you are doing is not helpful, no he is never going to be this compliant easy going child, I'm tired of her being rude to him, she has hurt his feelings, etc. So what it came down to is...I criticized her. I am guessing you have done the same thing...you are worried about safety issues or whatever and you laid down the law with your mom to keep your kids safe. This made your mom feel criticized. My mom was also at a point in life where things were going very badly for her and she was depressed. She took my letter as a slap in the face and she read it as saying she did not love her grandson. She promptly told me she is never speaking to me again...ever. This was a huge shock. What kind of person cuts off their own daughter? My mom is very self centered and she can be very narcissistic...meaning she really does not see the other person's side of things. After a big period of time of feeling very upset and very sad I wrote her a nice letter and mailed it to her. I decided to try to see things from her perspective and I realized I will never make her change...she is a narcissist and in order to feel good about herself she needs to get attention and hear nice things about herself. She does have many very good qualities and so I spoke about them in the letter and said I hope she reconsiders soon. She called me about 2 weeks later and we made up. Basically now I just am kind and polite with my mom, but I keep my distance. I do not tell her my real troubles in life any more. I do not confide in her. She has behaved herself well and she no longer is making constant negative comments about my son. In fact, she has tried to make it up to me/him in some ways. So, perhaps this is what happened to you. You stood up to your mom and told her she cannot do certain things. She was instantly angry and infuriated and decided to cut you off. Well, now she knows that you will stand up for what you believe is right even against her. I bet with time she will resume a relationship with you again.

You are the parents.
Those are your kids.
They do not exist without you.

IF visits with them have to be "supervised" for "safety" issues... then you must be with your children. AT ALL TIMES.
I would not trust them.

You do not have to..... do what they want.
Because... you NEED to do what is best for your children.
Bottom line.

Relatives, are not always appropriate for one's children.
And if this is your case, and your parents have to be supervised, then it sounds like they are very Toxic people.
And I would not want my children around them.

I teach my kids, that people, even relatives, can be inappropriate and not safe. Even blood relatives, can harm, children... and it is the PARENTS... who decide, what happens to them. I am honest with my kids.

You either do what is best for your children... or you allow your parents to decide, for your children, what happens to them.
You decide... what level of toxicity... is put upon your children, or not.

WHY are you letting your Parents... decide what happens with your children?

I would not put my children, in that predicament.
I would, safeguard, my children's well being.
And "I" would decide, who they spend time with. Relatives or not.
I would not want my kids... around Grandparents like that.

I'm sorry that you are going through this, first of all.

I think plain and simple, let them go, raise your children with all the love, support, and compassion as you possibly can. Make them better people than your mother and her husband. The only people that will be losing out are your mom and her husband. If your kids ask about it, just tell them that at this time it's not possible or a good idea for them to see their grandmother. If it were me and my mother sent me something like that, I would have just responded that they are not allowed to have anything to do with my children and that will be the case until she seeks professional help. No mother should ever say anything like that to her children.
Good luck.

No way anyone who disowns you gets a relationship with your kids. The courts will not grant visitation in this case. I would accept it, mourn it, and try to be the best M. to your kids.

I'd need to know more about the source of your falling-out before I could really answer properly. BUT, I probably wouldn't be comfortable having my son spend a lot of time with someone with whom I wasn't on speaking terms. I have clear and carefully researched opinions about all kinds of things -- how much TV is okay, what constitutes a healthy diet, behavior expectations, all sorts of things. I doubt I'd be comfortable having him go somewhere where I couldn't have a say in any of these things.

The safety issues you mention (I'm not sure what these involve) would also be a big concern for me if I couldn't be there and couldn't know what's going on.

Finally, it sounds like you guys have had a terrible falling out -- I'm sorry! I might be concerned about the grandparents badmouthing the parents (you) to the kids in this situation -- this can be very hard for kids.

I would cut all ties and move on. Just email your mother and let her know that you don't agree to her terms. You think it's completely ridiculous that she and her husband are writing you off (or "moving on") from you, but they still expect to be grandparents to your children.

And then just leave it at that.

I'm sorry you're having to do this. We can't choose our family...but we can choose how they treat us. If you allow her to do this to you, then she'll think it's ok to set terms and boundaries on other things. *hugs*

I just read your what happened. If that had been my mom I had to call 911 for, there would be NO further contact with my children. With or without supervision. You need to protect your children both physically AND emotionally. I'm sorry you're in this situation, it stinks that you have to deal with that from your mom.

If your mom refuses to have relationship with you she doesnt need to see your kids..period. Sounds like you are being bullied to me. :(

This is so strange. I agree with others who've said that family is a packaged deal and I would not go along with arranged visits for my children.

I might find a counselor or a mediator who would be willing to work with you and your parents to resolve the issue. I'd go to the counselor for myself first with the hope that my parents would be willing to talk about his with a third party.

I had a similar issue with my daughter. She didn't want me to be involved in her life and wouldn't let me see the grandchildren. I saw my counselor and was able to feel comfortable waiting it out. I didn't respond to her when she told me that I was out of her life. Painful, yes. But it all worked out. In part because of my ability to go along with her she eventually changed her mind and we've had a really good relationship since. It's been several years. It took a few months for all of us to heal before the issue was no longer important.

I acknowledged that she had the right to make that decision. I suspect that the base issue was the question of her showing that she had the power to keep my from the grandchildren.

I suggest that this is a power move on your parent's part. I suggest that if you stand firm with the fact that you're a total unit and there will be no visits unless you and your husband are involved, your parents will eventually come around to talking about the situation.

You have the power. Your parents do not. Therefore, I suggest that you find a way to give them some power. This is where counseling will help. But in the meantime, do stand firm. There are many reasons to not want your children visiting when there is a lack of respect and trust amongst the adults.

I might say yes to visits if you can arrange them to be in your home and with your presence. Or, perhaps, they're a family affair going to a public place such as the zoo or a park. I would be willing to compromise on anything that included you and your husband in the visits.

I would meet on the dates she suggests as long as I was able to stay with the children. That does give her just a bit of power. The idea is to share the power with each side having some. However, as parents, you do have the largest amount of power.

Later in regards to losing your mom. Yes, that hurts terribly. I suggest however, that this can change. It just takes time to work out relationships. She won't talk with you now. so let it go. Eventually she may come around, especially if it means being with her grandchildren.

My mother disowned me when I was in my 30's because she found bc pills in my medicine cabinet. I cried a lot but let it be. In a few months se was once more talking with me and we soon were back to a good relationship. The idea is to not fight when we disagree. Wait and let it resolve it's self in a natural way.

I read your "So what happened?" and if your mom and her husband have drinking problems, find an to Al-Anon chapter near you (http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/home). They can definitely help you with support of all kinds, and they have regular group support meetings--it will help you realize you're not alone (though your situation may be unique).

I'm sorry your family is doing this to you. However, your children need your protection, so keep giving it and don't give in. And document everything (the drunkenness around the kids, guns in the house, etc). Don't let them have unsupervised visits.

You could respond to her email saying: "I'm not trying to discuss this, but I am trying to understand exactly what you want. What I hear you saying is that you do not want to have a relationship or visits from DH & I, but that you do want to have visits with the kids and try to have a loving relationship with the kids? If that is true, you need to know that it is our job to keep the kids safe, and so in that regard we will do our best to facilitate visitation with the kids, but it will be supervised due to the dangers we have brought up before. If this is not what you meant by your earlier email, please spell out exactly what you meant."

I don't know how old your kids are, but even young children can have a vague grasp of safety/getting hurt, and you can explain to them that the grandparents are not safe for them to be around alone.

I would say cut your losses. What will your children gain from being around these people.

I have guns in my house BUT, my guns are not loaded. The ammunition is not even in the same room and is completely non accessible. My grand kids are here and have never even noticed them. I do think there is a much deeper issue here than this kind of situation though.

I would say that if the visits need to be supervised then you cannot allow your kids to go to their home, unless you are right there and able to jump in at any time. You need to hear what they are telling your kids, what activities they are doing with them, everything.

I would tell brother that he can lose your number but to make sure mom and the guy have his so he can be called at 1am to assist.

When we got guardianship of our grand kids we filed the papers and took the kids away from her. She didn't even show up in court. The judge was interviewing us and asked us a lot of questions about our claims that the kids were "in need of supervision" (INS).

As he signed the papers he stopped and looked us straight in the eyes. He said "You are saying that the kids are at risk when they are in the mother's care. I am agreeing with you and signing these orders. If you allow these children to be with her in any circumstances and any little thing happens to them I am going to come after you with the book and anything I can find for not protecting them from the situation". That's what I am going to say you should think of this as too.

If you allow the kids to go over, they get hurt, get neglected, are exposed to drugs and alcohol usage, anything. Who is responsible?

You are. And you alone. You know going in that there is risk. Of course you love your mom and don't want to offend her but if you allow your children to be around her and they get hurt or learn an unacceptable behavior, who is at fault. You are.

i dont get it. No advice will be accurate without the back story. Why do they need to be watched? what tore you apart?
If I had an argument with my mom so drastic that she disowned M. I don't think I would think she was a good influence on my daughter. However it would have to be a huge issue for us to decide we would no longer love eachother or communicate. If it was such a huge issue that I myself could not be around her I wouldn't think it would be good for my daughter to either.
If it was a small fight or something big but not life changing I would try to mend thingd with my mom

It sounds to me like she's trying to control you and control the conversation. It sounds like you're doing the right thing by drawing the lines to keep the kids safe. I would say you need to assert yourself and let her know that if she wants to see the kids, you will be calling the shots. If she wants to see them, she will need to be able to communicate with you (and by communication, I mean it is two-way).