Late Friends

Sounds like these friends are clueless...Let's start with the easiest one. If they are coming to parties that are supposed to be potluck or everyone brings something to pass I would clearly be bold enough to ask HER to bring something specific....Like so and so is bring the fruit another is bring the chips and dip....Jane, I need you to bring the veggies and just before the party remind her....Secondly kids will be kids, have a policy that their kids don't bring over toys so there are no arguments and also so they don't get broken or lost with your kid's toys. As far as them staying late...If they are that inept about etiquette then you need to be bold and say. It was so nice of you to come and visit but now its time to go...I have to put Johnny and Suzzie to bed and it has been a long day...Or you simply go over to their place and leave when you want to...Easy enough.

As far as discipline with the kids you can only discipline your kids and not theirs. For your birthday, if those kids act up, then those parents will have to deal with it not you. If it was important for you to celebrate your birthday without the commotion then it should have been with your DH and kids only or clearly and adult evening where you hired a sitter so you would not have had to deal with the drama.

wow, lots of resentment here! and most of it sounds pretty justified to me.
you definitely need to develop better boundaries with these folks.
funny, that issue seems very prevalent here these days!
you have to decide with your dh in advance on an eviction strategy. this can really really really be done very courteously and lightly and not cause hard feelings. 'wow, guys, this has been SUCH fun. i'm whipped now and we really have to turn in. let's check in with each other via email tomorrow and see when we can set up another fun evening.'
it will be hard to uninvite them from your birthday evening since you do have other friends going. if you feel strongly about it, you could say something along the lines of 'we would love to celebrate with you another time, but we have planned this particular evening as a sort of one-on-one between X's family and ours. are you free next saturday?'
be prepared for some hurt feelings there, though. next time i'd just be a lot more careful that you keep private plans which don't include them.
as for their son, you just need to let that go. you wouldn't appreciate them criticizing your parenting and if you try to 'fix' their kid it will put the coffin nail in your friendship for sure. (maybe you're okay with that. you do seem pretty resentful of 'em overall.) he's just a little fellow. so what if he doesn't want to share his toy? he shouldn't have to. nor should your kids be forced to share theirs. don't get involved. tell them all that if they can't work it out they'll have to play in separate rooms. then make them do it. you won't have to do it more than once. kids need to work this stuff out for themselves without adults micromanaging it all. and yes, sometimes onlies have more issues with sharing than manies. it's okay. they'll figure it out.
ditto him bugging you at your party. he's only, what, 4 or 5? tell him firmly he may not come to you any more, then as soon as he starts tugging at your sleeve send him off to his mom. kindly, firmly, inexorably. you can do this nicely and still not let this very small person fluff your feathers so.
what he does in the restaurant is not up to you. i TOTALLY get not liking it, but you don't have a say. you either make reservations and don't let them know about it, courteously refuse to allow them to tag along, or deal with it. once there you don't get to be in charge of the etiquette training of someone else's kid.
boundaries. learn them. use them. love them.
khairete
S.

If you want to continue to be friends with them, you have set parameters.

If you set up a play date, say "We'd like to have a play date with you from Noon until 4:00. At 4:00 we have to leave to go somewhere." Then when 4:00 approaches say "Well, this has been a lot of fun! We really need to get around to get going now. Thanks so much for coming!" You might actually have to plan something for 4:00 so that they see you leaving the house. Don't tell them what it is you're doing or they might invite themselves along.

If you're having a potluck game night, lay the expectations out. Say to her, "We're having game night. Everyone is bringing something. I need to you to bring XYZ with you." Then keep reminding her that week and the day of. Just a quick text that says "Just a reminder! I need you to bring some XYZ tonight! See you then!"

As far as the tattling, if he comes to you say "Are you physically hurt? Is anyone else physically hurt? If the answer is no, then you need to work it out on your own. If you all can't play together, then you can go play alone." If you know he has a toy that he brings that no one else can play with, then have your kids pick out a special toy that HE can't play with. When he wants it say "Oh, I'm sorry! That's his/her special toy that only he/she is allowed to play with. If you share your special toy, I'm sure he/she will share too!"

In my house, if you're at my house, you follow my house rules. I don't care if you're my kid or not. It might be mean, but I don't have a problem correcting someone else's child at my house if they're misbehaving.

As far as the restaurant, I don't really think there's much you can do there. You're either going to have to hope for the best, or tell them that they're not invited.

In the end, you have to decide if this friendship is worth it.

well, it sounds like you are close to cutting them off, so what do you have to lose by drawing your boundaries clearly? the worse that could happen is they don't want to come around anymore and that would be fine with you, apparently.

so what i would do is SAY, "sure, come on over for an hour or so "(my daughter is almost 4 and i still don't expect people to stay for longer than 2 hours). set the time in advance. then after that time is passed,. SAY "well, we should wrap it up now. i have some other things to do." there is NO shame in that. who wants to overstay their welcome anyway?

second, TELL their son directly, in a sweet voice, "now make sure you don't briing any toys in here that you're not willing to share, okay sweetie? that's the rule in OUR HOUSE." period. and discipline him when he doesn't share. take away the toy.

thirdly, ask them to bring something when they come over. why not? they'll get it after that unless they're idiots or selfish moochers, and they're probably neither.

and lastly, about the restaurant thing...well that's a tricky one. you could try being proactive and saying, "do you really think your son is a restaurant kinda guy? last time he freaked out, and i don't want that at my birthday." yes, it's harsh, but it's honest and you will be SO happy that you set your boundaries. or you could deal with it when it comes up. give him the chance to behave and then if he doesn't, ask them to leave, or threaten him: "quiet and sit down or NO dessert for you!" if they don't parent him properly in YOUR space, then they are opening him up to being parented by someone else. and, worse case scenario, they are turned off and don't want to come around any more. and maybe that's good.

good luck!! let us know what happens!

I'm sorry to say this, but in reading your post, these don't sound like the kind of friends one wants to have.

I would suggest approaching this in a couple of different ways:
1) Tell them that they are welcome to come over, but the late nights are causing behavior problems. Tell them this in advance of the next visit, so they know in advance. Then, when it's time, say, okay, kids, its time for bed. Send your kids to their rooms, and get the coats for your friends, gather up their bags and belongings and stand at the front door. Give them 3 or 4 minutes, and then, if they don't get it, open the door and walk out to the car. Even if you have to, cut them off in mid-sentence, and say "goodbye, thanks for visiting" and then walk back into your house. Be rude if you have to--otherwise they just aren't going to get it.

2) with the "special toy" that the other child brings, ask the parents to have it stay in the car. If they won't, when the child comes in, say, oh how nice you brought X. We're going to put that up here (out of reach on a shelf or wherever) so it doesn't get lost and doesn't cause any fights. And if it does cause a fight, tell him it has to go out to the car, or at least sit outside on the porch.

3) For the food issue (potluck contribution), tell them what to bring. Say, "Oh, I'm so glad you're coming. Bring a salad (or dessert or side dish), enough to feed 4 (or 6 or 8). We'll see you at 6 pm on Saturday!" Make it friendly, and tell the exactly what to bring. And if they keep not bringing food, then, stop inviting them.

4) For your birthday, I would un-invite them. I know that sounds mean, but you didn't invite them, and there's a very real chance that it will not be a happy birthday for you because of the antics of their children (and maybe I'm being cynical, but if they don't contribute to a potluck, they might be inclined to stick you guys for their restaurant bill...). Tell them that you heard that they were interested in coming, but that you've already made the reservation for X people and the restaurant cannot accommodate a larger group as they are booked full. Or tell them that this is a family-only birthday but that you'd love to get together with them some other time.

I'm sorry to say, but these friends just don't seem like very good friends, so maybe it's time to start distancing yourself from them....

From reading this I can only suggest that you get a bit more vocal about times, dates, food and behavior.

Just say, "sure, come over on Sat but we have to be cleared OUT by 8, b/c we have an EARLY day Sunday!" Then follow up--start putting stuff away, turning off lamps, etc! They'll eventually get it.

And add "On Saturday, bring a tossed green salad b/c we're making burgers." etc. Then prepare NOTHING else. If she 'forgets" again--it will be apparent to all!

As for the unshared toy...can you say (in front of the parents) "Our rule is all toys are shared, so do you want to share, or should I put it up on the fridge til you go home?" Even a 5 yo can get that! I would hope the parents will too!

If you don't facilitate changes, they're not going to magically happen (obviously--they haven't!).

As for the birthday dinner, I would have said "Sorry it's a family night--can we all go next week?"

There are a lot of issues here. I think you either need to accept "this is how they are" so you are not bent out of shape every time you interact with this family, or make some major changes in the dynamic. For instance: they always stay way past their welcome. Make plans to meet them somewhere rather than inviting them to your house. That way you can leave when you need to. If they are coming to your home, let them know beforehand what time the event is over. Tell them you have family plans at such and such time. (Don't lie about it-just make plans afterward). The hints are not working; most likely they are enjoying themselves so much and do not want to leave. You need to actively get up and start getting your kids in their jammies. Tell them how much you enjoyed their company but now you need to get your kids in bed. Stop with the hints!!
Make yourself a game plan on how to deal with these minor annoyances. Be clear in your communication with them. If the party you are having is pot luck, don't hint around; just tell them "we are doing pot luck". If they continue to forget each time, you can evaluate whether the friendship is too 1-sided and if you really want to continue, but just make sure you are being clear to begin with.

With your dinner: I think you can either make it a no-kids function or accept that he will be there, he may make a disturbance, and it is up to his parents to handle. Who knows- maybe he will be well behaved.Just try and enjoy your dinner. Happy Birthday!

Thoughtless people sounds like. I mean, for the long hours, you could tell them in advance that you have to make it an early night when you give the invite. I do that sometimes, but even so, on many occasions I've had to do the, "Well, I hate to wrap it up, but we have to get up in the morning," and sort of stand and hand out coats, which works well because they already knew in advance it was going to be an early night, so they're always gracious. Usually, if things seem fine, and it's a weekend, people don't see why they should make a move to leave. That's natural. Sometimes it's fun when they stay late, and I just put the kids to bed even though people are over.

The spoiled kid, we know lots of those. It's annoying, but you have to take them in small doses if you're going to be friends. Eventually, it may become natural to avoid them until the kids are older. We have friends who like their kids to be around ours, for their good behavior, but the opposite is true for us, because their kids aren't being nice. Sometimes ours start to act up because theirs are, and then we're disciplining ours, and they're not disciplining theirs! Once they even said, "See, look what happens to them when they talk back to mama" like that would somehow teach THEIR kids not to do it!!???! By osmosis??!!! All you can do is start avoiding. Sorry they invited themselves to the restaurant. You may have to schedule a secret "other" birthday dinner in case this one gets ruined. :-0 Always nice to have two dinners...Maybe if you expect the worst, it will go smoothly.

As for not bringing stuff-that's the worst!!!!! Here is where they seem sort of abnormally inconsiderate-I mean, who wouldn't bring stuff to a group gathering? We always bring something, even if it's just me and I have to stop at the store alone with 3 kids in order to do so! (or I apologize profusely if it was impossible for a last minute invite to my closest friend's, and I always offer to run back out once I get the kids out of the car-the store is only a few blocks away). I think you should wean yourselves from these people.

Wow....and these people are FRIENDS of yours?? What do you actually enjoy about them?? I Would be so tempted to severely limit my interaction with someone if they aggravated me as much as this family aggravates you!! Life is WAY too short!!
Let's take things step by step...
THe little one bringing a toy over...just make it a rule that no toys come into your house...you dno't want to get things broken, lost etc. If they bring a toy anyway ask them to please take it back out to the car so there isn't any reason for the children to be fighting over it .
As to the constant tattling...just tell him "we don't tattle here in our house" and ignore him...let him go to Mom and Dad if he has an issue that he thinks needs to be dealt with.
The birthday dinner...whoa!!! Inviting themselves...that is a bit nervy..or socially inept...or a little bit of both. I think I would be tempted to
change plans....tell them you cancelled the dinner at xyz restaurant...and are not sure what you are going to be doing. Then make plans at some other place and keep your plans strictly to yourself...don't let them know.
Your comments about them staying so late ( 1:00 am and you obviously have several young children...WHAT are they thinking???)...reminds me of something that my Dad used to say...jokingly ...when we would have friends over. There were several families that got together at each others home on Sunday evenings after church...as the evening started to draw to a close...my Dad would look at my Mom and say ( with a grin on his face) "Jenny...let's go to bed so these folks can go home" It was always met with laughter...but the place cleared out soon afterwards. I guess what I am telling you is that sometimes you just have to be willing to speak up.
This couple is obviously not concerned about what YOU want or need so YOu are the ones who need to see to it that your family is taken care of. If they brought coats...go get their coats...and tell them that you really enjoyed the evening but it is time for you to start getting all of the children ready for bed now...and that you will look forward to seeing them again soon. Don't be subtle...I have a feeling these folks don't pick up on subtle hints.
As to the potluck dinners...again...subtle doesn't work with these folks...get the rest of the families in on what you are doing...and why...so they aren't insulted...then start a group email...detailing what each family is bringing and give your clueless friends something concrete to be in charge of. Then email a reminder on the day of the event.
If you spent too much time worrying about being careful about not hurting their feelings...this is all just going to continue.

I totally agree that you need to set clear boundaries, but I must disagree that the kids need to work it out themselves with no parent help. They first need to be taught how to do it, over and over again. They need the language and the understanding that there are rules and boundaries in our lives. Especially at 5, and with no siblings to practice on, this kid (and probably the parents) needs guidance since he gets none at home. I will step up as homeowner when we have friends over -- my house, my rules -- and would tell that kid "in our house, when we have a toy we don't want played with during play time, we find a special quiet place for it to hide. Because it's rude to play with toys in front of others but not let them play too -- just like that time So-and-So wouldn't let you look at his Legos. So let's find a place where your toy can hide until it's time for you to go."

AND -- when he comes to tattle, ask "would you like some suggestions on how to handle it, why don't you ask your mom?" Put it back on him, by letting him know it's HIS to deal with.

I understand and hear everything you are saying. All 3 of your issues are valid!

Here are my thoughts:
If you wish to keep them as friends...
1) You (or hubby) need to man up and tell them "You gots to go"...ya know, the funny saying..."you don't have to go home but you cant stay here". That is how I would play it. If you want them as friends, you should treat them as friends, which is open and honest and yes, sometimes blunt. Be true to yourself and your family and things should sort out the way they should...I think anyway. If you tell them its bedtime for all of you and they get offended and don't come back, so be it...but at least you would have been true to what you want for you and yours.

2) Same goes for not ever offering to contribute to the party, food/drinks wise...be honest, be forward but nice..."what you slackers gonna bring next time? I'm tired of feeding all yall, all the time" or something like that...(sorry, this is my truth, this is how I talk sometimes, when I am trying to be blunt but fun, you might not get it but my friends do) you use your own words of course but just be honest, nice and clear. They will get the hint or they wont.

3)As far as the kid goes...I would stay on the path of directing him to his mom..."we don't do tattling at my house sweetie, go talk to your mom about it, OK"...or whatever...."at my hose we share buddy"...clear rules for your house are ALWAYS OK.

4)And for your dinner, if you think this kid will ruin your time, your gonna have to talk to the mom! If you can just suck it up, then just do that. She will probably be the one really struggling and embarrassed (If she is not and has a 'IDK' attitute, like it doesn't bother her, then you have the right to step in politely and try to rein in this kid, the mom will probably make it very clear how she feels about you doing this! She will either let you take over (cuz it might work & he might listen to you better and she knows that) or she will step in and try to take over...either way you have made your point and if you do it nicely everyone will understand what is going on!!.*****I have been around LOTS of kids who cant manage in the restaurants and yes, it is annoying! My kids are very well behaved (you have to teach them to do this though) and I have dealt with this scenario once before...my stepson are a lot older than my own children, & when we would go out to eat with my in-laws my FIL would always take the boys out to do a 'walk about' because they could not hold still or use inside voices, instead of instructing them to be quiet! I was a new Stepmom at the time and totally let their family take charge of these situations!...now when my kids entered the picture and would start to get bored my FIL tried (a couple times before he got the hint that I wanted to handle it) to take them out and I had to politely step in and take over..."No, lil' Johhny is going to sit still and be patient...we are at the restaurant waiting for our food and trying to have a nice visit, this is what your gonna do now...here play with the creamer or color on this" kind of thing! What I am trying to say is that we all handle this situation differently. When it effects you and your special time I think you have the right to step in and take charge of the situation if you want to.

~Basically what I am trying to say is you have to decide what you want to do about these people...and however you decide to proceed as long as you are nice and respectful and true to yourself it will have been the correct thing to do. Does that make sense? I think the real question is how comfortable are you really around these people? It might not be a good fit? Who knows?

I would address each thing at different times.

For the tattling, I would tell the son to talk to his mom. Let her deal with it constantly.

For the restaurant, since it is your birthday, I would ask DH or the other friend to arrange seating so that their son is on the end where he can easily be taken out and when/if he starts to act up, they should speak up and ask them to take him out til he can calm down so as not to interrupt your birthday dinner. If you are NOT okay with it, your husband can call them and be honest that he doesn't think it's an appropriate venue and occasion for their son. Kids have limits and they are not always welcome. I don't expect my DD to be perfect, but when she goes out to eat, she can sit in her seat, color, be fairly quiet, not throw food, etc. And sometimes we get a babysitter instead.

For the lateness and the not bringing anything - I would start to say, "Great, we'll see you Saturday. Can you bring potato salad?" or "We'd love to see you, but we really have to end the day at 5." And at 5, if they show no signs of leaving, take them aside and tell them that while you enjoy the visit, you need some family time, hope you understand.

I have friends who linger but not THAT late. That would drive me crazy. On a work or school night, it keeps you up late and then you scramble for bedtime routine and just the piddly stuff one does at night. If it's a weekend, it blows your whole day for chores, errands, etc.

It's hard when they're friends, but there's just something or some things that bug you. For me, with one of my friends, I know that plans are not set with him til the VERY last minute. He was an hour late to his own wedding! We don't hang out much anymore. You have to start speaking up because they sound like their behavior is taking the joy out of the visits/friendship.

Wow, not a family I'd like to hang out with too much. The old saying goes - nobody takes advantage of you without your permission (it's hard to do, but in this case I think you have to do something since these people have no clue). Before they step foot in your house, look the boy in the eyes and say - "oh, I'm sorry, your toy will have to stay in the car. We have a sharing rule in our house and last time you brought your toy here and didn't share it, it caused a problem." As far as them staying too late (haven't we all been there?) - at the start of the day/evening say - "we're so glad you're here. Just want to let you know that we'll have to end our adult "play date" at 8 so I can get the kids bathed & to bed." When 7:55 rolls around, BOTH you and your husband should get up, hand them their coats and thank them for coming. DO NOT leave your husband alone with them. You'll come back 2 hours later and they'll still be there.

As for them inviting themselves to YOUR birthday dinner. How did they do that? Did they tell you or someone else? I'd seriously call them and say that either the reservation couldn't be changed or that you're keeping your birthday celebration small this year. I guarantee they think they are guests at the dinner and they're not pulling out $$ to pay for their share.

I think that you need to start setting ending times for your playdates before they come over. Say that you will need to get your kids ready on time so if they could leave by 7 that would be great. When it's about 7 start getting your kids ready. Give them a warning like oh it's about 7 and my kids are heading to the tub...then do it. It seems kind of harsh, but honestly, if they aren't getting the hints then don't worry about it, they will now! Nicely say you're going up, you'll see them next time, give hugs and disappear!

As far as the tattling, just tell him in my house we don't tattle. And then make him go back to playing. If you are that good of friends it won't be a big deal. If you see him walking up, just say I hope this isn't a tattle...and he'll probably walk away. I wouldn't send him to his mom, that will only cause more uncomfortable moments and she'll wonder what you want her to do about it. It's your house, follow your rules. When you're at their house, let his mom deal with it.

As far as your birthday, can you tell them it's just adults? Will there be kids there besides your own? If not, then that's what I'd do. If that won't work, I'm afraid you'll just have to suck it up. I don't think you can really say anything here unless she asks for advice, which it doesn't sound like she will since maybe she senses no problem?? Just put them at the other end of the table from you! ;)

They don't sound like the type of people you would want to be friends with. For staying late, I would set a time for the get together from like say 6-11 or something like that. If your kids have a specific bed time, then stop what your doing and get the kids ready for bed. I do that with my son and my friends kids find something to do without him. As for bringing something, If your hosting, I dont think you should expect people to bring stuff. With my friends the host provides the "main course" and a couple sideish type things and if they want to, they will bring something or I'll throw a couple items out there that need to be brought. If you feel people should bring something, then give her a specific thing to bring like drinks. As for your birthday, you could tell her that you prefer kids not be there because its your birthday dinner. i know they grate on your nerves but everybody needs a friend. THere are people out there who do invite themselves.

I would always have somewhere else to be after a couple of hours if I was you. Let them know they are welcome to stay for a little while but you will be heading out at whatever time. Then start getting your coats on, everyone leaves together, drive around the block then you and your family go home!!! TADA!!! lol :-)