Dealing with People Who Live Beyond Their Means...

Little late here, but am adding two pet peeves: One is that we live in a very small, affordable house without all the trimmings like you say and I often wonder how other people picked out huge homes, huge mortgages, cannot afford to pay them and then seek public assistant when some lender gave them the money to do this anyway, and then the next is I too am sick of hearing them complain but get tired of people like my sister who thinks we are poor and low class and my brother and his wife for instance, have all that 'stuff' you are talking about and my sister is just in awe of how 'rich' she thinks they are. I try to let it go myself, but it sometimes is a daily battle. Thanks for letting me know there are others out there like me.

you and me both, I am so sick of this. Try to focus on what you like to do and limit contact with them until they grow up.

;

oh sweetie the only way to let something like this go is to literally let it go. I know exactly what you mean! I have people in my life who have two brand new car payments and house beyond means and so much more yet cant join us for lunch or do things with the family. Either you have the relationship with your siblings or family members where you can tell them how you really feel or you let them be. Just know you are comfortable with where and who you are and you will accept them for whatever bad decisions they make in their lives as long as it doesnt personally affect you. You cant change anyone, but you can be a good family member and friend and listen. And those times you dont want to listen then be too busy to talk. As for your parents you should be totally honest with them, and then realize whatever decision they make that they adults. Dont push anyone away over this. take care of yourself and make sure you are happy that is what is important!

Don't have any advice. Just a big fat:

AMEN SISTER!

So tired of the blame going around. "The Bank shouldn't have LET me get an interest free ARM loan." Or "The credit card company shouldn't have given me a $10,000 limit."

I agree with other post. Look 'em dead in the eye, raise your eye brows in incredulity and let the ensuing awkward silence speak for you. Then turn on your heel and walk away.

As to the worry for your parents...That is killing me too as my brother and his kids are sucking the emotional and financial life out of them. ARGH!

In our marriage we have NEVER lived within our means until last year.

Of course, when you have 2 full time university students with a baby/toddler/child, paying for uni without help from family... that almost goes without saying. Add in preschool tuition, and sheesh. If we had ever lost our funding for any reason... we would have been screwed.

The only reason we live within our means now, is that DH graduated... and I took a hiatus from school so that we could buy a house. We chose to be house-poor on purpose (we live much better being house poor than we did paying 3 tuitions). Still... we very much are "gap bridgers". All of our parent friends are well off. Not wealthy... but their educations are complete (aka they're saving for their kids' educations - instead of their own, they have homes that don't need anything "done" to them, they can take vacations, etc. All of our school friends are 50-200,000 in debt... living the weird student thing (2k laptop while eating ramen). Our parent friends don't understand that we haven't painted the bathroom because we have to budget the $30 for the durn can of paint... and our school friends don't understand why we haven't done a total remodel... because DH makes "so much money".

Neither group understands why we live the way that we do. (Yes we tore out a wall a year ago and haven't rebuilt it. We needed to get the mattress upstairs. Demo costs nothing. Rebuilding, however does.) Both groups have about 100x more clothes than I do... but I'd rather spend the money on season passes up the mountians... or piano lessons for kiddo than to buy new clothes. (Hey, I'm not naked... I'm good). My mum periodically gets horrified at seeing the SAME shirt AGAIN (and having learned I won't take her up on shopping trips) gives me giftcards to clothing stores on xmas's and bdays.

So why bring this up? We're happy. We're happy for ourselves, and we're happy for our friends. It's harder with family. My inlaws consider us Richy Rich, my family considers us dead broke. But WE are happy. We don't have what everyone else does, and we have tons more than some of those same people. ((AKA I have a free phone, and 2 pairs of jeans... because I'll use that 500 to take kiddo to london for a long weekend instead. Every time I see an uber-slick phone, that will be outdated next week, I get a little happy "The Bristish Museum ROCKS" or "I <3 Snowboarding" kind of grin)).

Now perhaps I feel this way because I've had a job that paid more money than gawd (we're talking so much money it wasn't real, it was like monopoly money), and I've been homeless. Living on both extremes, makes the middle a pretty durn cool place. I can have and do WHATEVER I want... I just have to save for it (we don't have credit cards)... AND I get to be warm and dry and have a down pillow whist I save for it.

It sounds like you are NOT happy. So what fixes that? Since it can't be anything outside of yourself (aka nothing but no one can make another person change)... what would need to change to make you happy with your own situ? Something material? Experiential? Mental? Physical? What would need to change in your own life, so that other people's lives aren't painful to watch?

I felt compelled to answer because I was a financial advisor and would regularly deal with people like your family members. I would suggest the next time they complain to you, you give them your financial person's number or tell them to call a financial advisor. You can choose to make their problems yours by listening and getting involved or you can avoid them and the subject of finances. I have watched my sister and brother in law work very hard over the past 20 years, guess what? They're 45 years old and own their home. Their house is owned free and clear. No mortgage, whatsoever. They will most likely be able to retire at 55 with more than enough money to support a 40 year retirement. They lived frugally, but now are reaping the benefit of that. Please just keep the long term goal in mind.

S.

We love Dave Ramsey too. Zero debt, zero payments (we are in school and don't have a home yet)...and I agree. 100%. I hear about my fellow college friends going on trips, buying electronics, clothes, ETC ETC...then they whine about student loans and how poor they are. Drives me nuts too!!!

But at the same time, all you can do is learn from them and just reaffirm to yourself how WONDERFUL it feels to be completely in control of your financial peace! LOVE IT!!!

I've read some of the responses you've gotten already and I think the wisest O. is the O. that says to walk away when the whining starts.

My hubby and I have a paid for house, paid for cars, no credit card debt and when we need or want something, we use cash to buy it. We have everything we need. Needs and wants are very different things!

I am a big Dave Ramsay fan and I would suggest you go to the bookstore and buy a stack of Dave Ramsay books so you have gifts on hand for every single holiday and birthday that comes down the pike! Then you can address any further whining with the question "Have you had a chance to read Financial Peace yet? It will really help you to take control of your money!"

And NEVER lend money to family! Especially family that stinks at handling their own money. That would be like buying a drunk a drink.

Good luck!

It's hard to believe this until you've experienced it, but you CAN'T be "made to feel guilty for NOT having these problems" unless you allow it. Sick of listening, yes. Concerned for your parents' financial future, yes. Envious about the stuff you don't have, maybe – if you weigh the cons of carrying a debt with the pros of having the stuff, aren't you actually content that you've made the choices you have?

As J L mentions below, our society is fed a constant message of entitlement, and almost every one of us has contributed to that mindset in one way or another. Very few of us live consistently in the alternative reality, the realization of the amazing wealth and privilege we already possess. It sounds like you're stuck in between; half wishing the entitlement messages were true for you, and not quite content and grateful for all you have. How uncomfortable.

When I experience resentment or envy, I make a point of appreciating the amazing gifts I do have, including my ability to stay out of debt. And even that is by grace – I still have my modest job with my modest income, the ability to work, enough health to keep body and soul together, a small but comfy home, healthy food on the table every day. It is possible to nourish the positive thoughts and (mostly) crowd out the painful ones.

There are practical steps you can take to address your issues with your siblings. Get your parents a book on enabling/codependency; let them know you are concerned about their ability to meet their own future needs. Perhaps you're also worried about your future inheritance being sucked dry, or the possibility that your parents may have you rely on responsible little YOU in the future. If that's alive in you, say so. Talk to your siblings about your concerns. Keep it about you and your needs – if you blame or whine about them and their lifestyles, they will never hear you.

If you don't want to hear chapter 64 of "How Hard Our Lives Are," it's up to you to change the subject. Be calm, kind and clear. Say something like, "Yes, I hear that your choices have left you in a tough position. You tell me that every time we talk. I notice that I am not able to listen compassionately any more. Until you're interested in my opinions about how you might change the situation, let's please talk about something else. How's Donnie's science project going?"

My best to you. It is unfortunately true that huge numbers of people are learning hard lessons right now. We can hope that the fallout will leave us all wiser.

I really like what JL wrote. I wanted to add my two cents also. Please don't judge others for what they do. It seems as though you are jealous, resentful, etc. Unless, you have personally loaned these people money it has nothing to do with you and you should be there for support and encouragement. I have personally been one of the these so-called "horrible" people. Just because we made some bad mortgage decisions doesn't make us bad people and we will be the ones who have to deal with those consequences for YEARS. I too have had family being rude and unsupportive of me and have cut ties with two siblings because of their hurtful ways. We are still people and I know MANY people who are struggling. So focus on your OWN life and be helpful and compassionate towards others because you NEVER know what could happen to you in the future! No one says "hey I think I am going to purposely go into foreclosure and ruin my finances". Things happen and you never really know exactly what is going on in someone elses life and what is important to them. If everybody was the exact same as "you" the world would be a dull place- that is why we are all individuals. I know I don't always agree with everything everybody says but we just have to except them for them and focus on our lives. I also think it is sad that we as a country are so uncaring to our fellow citizens, yet most of those same uncaring people have never had to go through half the hardships of others. When I get down I try to think "it could be worse!" So if you are like my family and feel that those who have debt, foreclosure should be punished and that it is all their doing. Stop and try to take a step in their shoes. Do you really think it feels good to be an adult and have to lose your home and move back in with your parents? Because it doesn't. Do you think they go through a day and not feel guilty or worthless? Because they probably do. So, all in all enjoy your life and financial freedom and count your blessings every day! And have compassion towards others because it might brighten their day just a little. ;)

hi-
Many times I feel the same way. We try to be very careful with our money (live in a modest home, drive cars that are paid off, do not subscribe to cable/satellite TV even though it is VERY tempting with the digital converter boxes that keep “loosing signal” during the last 10 minutes of our shows, put money away in IRA/403B, etc. I look at co-workers and family members that live in nice fancy homes and have all the gadgets and new cars and I want what they have. But then I remind myself that I don't want to be in debt, I don't want the financial stress that many of my co-workers are feeling, I don't want to have to sell my home and "down size" because I bought a house that I couldn't afford.

So, good for you for being financially responsible and not having to stress about finances! I would make sure to teach your children about money and to understand the importance of managing your money.
Some sites for kids are:
http://www.moneyinstructor.com/kids.asp
http://www.marketwatch.com/pf/started/GettingStarted_Kids...
http://www.themint.org/index.html

As far as the parents enabling/bailing out their kids – I’m in the same boat. There are 2 siblings that continually ask our parents for money to bail them out and they get the money. This has been going on for years and since we have never taken money from them they tell us that they are feeling financially stressed now too. We tell our parents to stop bailing the other siblings out and that they are never going to learn to manage their money (they are only learning that mom/dad will always give them more money). I think after 15 years of bailing them out our parents are finally saying no.

Not sure if it would work, but can you talk to your family members and let them know that the money they are receiving from your parents is your parents’ retirement money and their parents may end up in financial distress later in life due to the money they are paying out to them now?

Good luck and keep up the great work!

Walk away when they start in.

How much time do you spend with them? Is is a lot of time?
If yes, then you could reduce that time with them...and your headache.

You don't have to be around people who drive you crazy......

I'm right there with you too! I also have no sympathy for people who don't live within their means. While I don't have any people in my life asking for handouts, I do have friends and family who live beyond their means (or just barely within their means). I am shocked that they will they will barely come up with a 12% tip for their server when they decide to eat out at a nice restaurant! They consider bad tipping to be a cost cutting measure. Nice.

Just remember that you are setting a good example for your children by living within your means. Hopefully when they are adults, they will be able to stand on their own two feet and never have to ask anyone for a bailout. If anyone asks you for money, tell them you can't afford to jeopardize your children's education or your retirement to bail them out. Keep the number for Consumer Credit Counseling with you, and every time your siblings start complaining again, tell them to call that number.

Meanwhile, have your parents start watching the Suze Orman Show. She is pretty tough on parents who financially enable (cripple!) their children and the whining adults to complain about never having enough money. Maybe your parents will see that they are doing themselves and your siblings no favors by continuing to bail them out.

Take care, and keep up the good work!

I didn't get to read everyone's answer, but know that you are not the only one who this irks. I'm not going to write paragraph after paragraph agreeing with you and telling you my story. I liked Megnatics answer to say something like "Nice that you don't have to pay rent at least." But as others suggested, try to just avoid them. It does get very annoying, especially when you see that they're not interested in your help. How weird is it that I don't even tell my brothers/friends that our house and cars are paid for? We should be proud of it, but instead have to hide it so that I don't hear all the "woe is me". I still hear it a little here and there. But since we're only on one income (i'm a SAHM) perhaps they feel for us a little? I dunno.

Just wanted to say that unfortunately, not everyone now adays wants to work hard for their money. They want a handout. And with the way the governments been working the past year, they seem to want us to rely on them for handouts. I think in Thessolonians somewhere, maybe 2nd Thes, it says basically "Those who don't work, don't eat." How simple is that?

I really like what all the other moms have said...I think I may be a bit more cynical (and vocal :) as we are the family (of 5) who's income has dropped MORE than 60%, in the last year. Thank God we have always lived within our means...or wee would have lost everything, too.
If this were my family...every time I heard them complain about how they don't have this or that, I would be the one to say, "Thank the Lord you don't have to pay rent." or "Maybe you could sell your phone for some extra cash."..."just go ask Mom and Dad...they don't need to keep anything for later in life."
I'm not suggesting this is the right answer...you should listen to the others. I guess I harbor a bit of angst, myself. Glad to know it's not just me :)

I am in sort of the same situation with my family doing that. It's been that way for a long time. The only thing that helps me deal with it is to not spend much time with them and keep telling myself that "Their journey in life is not my own." For some reason hearing that has really helped me and I repeat it every time I hear something about them that is frustrating. God has a very different plan for me and their journey is not mine. Repeat, repeat, repeat. And just try to avoid them. Hard to do, but it worked for me! =)

Don't feel bad, you are a responsible--adult. The definition of an adult is one who pays his own bills. These don't own as much as you do, remember that--your stuff is paid for and it is just that--yours, free and clear. I know many people like the ones you are describing. What is going to happen to them when their parents are gone? Just be proud that you are wise enough to live within your means, so successfully.

I think this is the case many of times. Good for you for not allowing yourself to be in such a situation. My sister has always been more than generous with their overflow of money, but now that hard times have hit, she continues to spend. I help with what I can, but can by no means can I support their high expenses. I have cut back on every bill possible, as well as buying an ugly used small car for better mileage. I have had several comments made about my car, but I don't let that bother me. We kind of think it is funny.

I guess to answer your question on how to let this go, be proud of yourself for not allowing this to happen to you. Be glad you or hubby do not feel that need to spend to make yourselves feel better. And most, don't hear it anymore. It is negativity.