Any Suggestions? I Am All Out.

Been there done that...with TWINS! Our girls don't do it now at 4 1/2 but did at 3 and for us, after trying a lot of things we finally decided to simply walk away. They did it because they needed attention be it positive of negative and by walking away they had no one to 'fight with' but themselves and that wasn't getting them what they wanted. From there we simply ask 'do we need to go have a talk' which means literally that - we take them out of the situation and talk to them, explaining what is unacceptable about their behavior, and explaining that if it happens again we will leave (the restaurant, for example) and she will get a spanking and go to bed with no video. For us, that works still - taking something away is one other way OR, we didn't think of this sooner, but we started more of a reward system for basic things like TV (noggin was a HUGE morning deal), a video, even one on one time with my husband or myself (we call this special time). Now my husband 'dates' them once a month and they get to get ALL dressed up (princess attire optional and yes, they have done that....he no longer begs me to have them change b/c they beam in the costumes and I DID say 'dressed up', lol!)and he takes them wherever they want to go. Also, for her, her world is changing...again, with the new baby on the way :)

Yeah, I agree too. There have been a couple of times when I took her kicking and screaming (literally) out of the store and drove home with her sobbing in the back, saying "I want to go shopping". I would tell her that Mommy will talk to her when she calms down, but not while she was acting like that. Then, I really would not acknowledge anything she said until she calmed down. Once she did, I would explain why we left the store, and that we could try it again tomorrow. This has only happened twice, so I guess she got the idea. Now all I have to do is remind her that if she can't be a good girl we will have to go home. She snaps out of it real quick!

Good luck!!
S.

You have gotten some great suggestions already. When I read your posting it reminded be of this great book I am reading right now that addresses this very thing. In case you are interested it is called "Love and Logic Magic for Early Childhood - Practical Parenting from Birth to Six Years" by Jim Fay and Charles Fay, Ph.D. You train them at home first when they disobey by consistently saying a key phrase or work like "Uh oh, looks like you need some room time". You remain calm, take them to their room, ad say they can come out when they are happy. Then when you are out shopping and say "uh oh" they immediately recognize that as the key word and stop what they are doing. If not, you find a corner to put them in or strap them in the shopping cart or whatever works for you. Once you consistently do this a few times, they learn it is not worth it.

I agree. Set expectations up front and the rules and then follow through with them. With both of my boy's, any time we went to a public place, I set the expectations ahead of time. Then, if they act up, we leave immediately no matter what. It may be an inconvenience for me, but it only took once or twice and we've not had the issue again. If it means leaving a shopping cart full of food and asking the mgr to roll it into the cooler until you can come back later that evening, then so be it. In my opinion offering toys, candy or cookies, etc is just not right. It shows the child that if he/she acts up, he/she will always get a treat of some sort. It actually reinforces the bad behavior. Set the expectations and if the behavior is what you were wanting, then reward it when you get home with a treat after the good behavior has occurred. Or even in the car, but in my opinion, I would not offer a treat in the middle of a tantrum.

When it comes to restaurants, same thing applies in my family. Set expecatations up front and if not met, leave immediately. If you don't want to have the other kid's "punished" for their sibling's bad behavior, let them stay in the restaurant with Dad, adult friend, whoever and sit in the car with the child that is misbehaving. Again, only takes once or twice. Now all we have to do if someone starts in our family is put the keys on the table. Reaction and behavior changes IMMEDIATELY when the keys are placed on the table.

I know it's hard, but consistency is the key and if you don't get this addressed now, it will only escalate and get worse. Not only that, but you've got 2 other little girls learning from their sister on what they can and can't do.

Good luck!

A little about me:
Working Mom (just went back to work after 7 years home ) of 7 year old and 4 year old boys.

First, preparation is key. While you're in the car on the way to your destination, lovingly lay down the rules. "OK team, do we want to have a fun trip to Target, or a not fun trip?" Let them answer (of course, they should say "fun trip!"). Then ask them to think of ways to make the trip fun. Offer sugestions (and be sure to incorporate their feedback): "Maybe we could march while we're in the parking lot! and we could take turns pushing the basket. The oldest kid can go first. And we can all help load the basket: Julie, your job is to get the eggs, Timmy, I'll need your help with the peanut butter..." etc.
Then go over the "fun trip plan" as you're pulling in, and come up with a signal or something for "normal time" for when they need to be quiet or discreet (you don't want them to get too crazy :-)). Be sure you let them know what happens next as you go along.
Letting her help craft the events of your shopping trip should help. She'll likely still try to pull her old stunts. You'll have to prepare yourself for interrupting your outing. As soon as it starts, head to the car. Let her know that her behavior is "not fun" and that only kids who help make things fun can go on shopping trips. From there, you can either go home and drop her off with Dad (or a trusted friend or neighbor) then take everyone else back to the store to finish what you started, or give up the outing until tomorrow. For your next trip out, arrange for her to either stay with Dad or a sitter while you take the others with you.
We tried this with my 3 1/2 yr old and it worked great! Once a week we have "Family Date" where we all go out together. My 3 yr old always managed to ruin the outing for all of us by throwing a ft when it was time to leave, throwing a fit about which car seat to sit in, etc. So I was fed up. I tried this tactic at the next Family Date night. I prepared her for it by going over the previous Date experience: "Do you remember that last time you threw a fit? Well, we really want to spend time with you on our family dates, but we also want to have peaceful family dates. Do you think your behavior last time was peaceful? I really don't want that to happen again, so we've got a babysitter for you while we take your brother on the family date. We're really going to miss you, so I hope you practice being peaceful while we're gone so that we can take you along again next time."
The kid has been an angel ever since. Of course, this was just 3 or 4 weeks ago. I'm sure we'll have to fight the battle again, (don't these things ALWAYS come back again?) but at least there's a precedent in place.
Good luck! and happy shopping!

Sounds like you need behaviour therapy of some sort, you can even do it yourself, check out a book from the library and find ways, like standing in corner, or writing sentences, or walking around the backyard so many times, there are several things you can try to redirect. I know she is doing it in public but let her know that if she does it this will be the consequence when we get home and follow through with it, and eventually, she will get the picture and hopefully the behavior will stop.

I have been there with my then 3 y ear old daughter. I know this is hard, but tell her expectations ahead of time and what the consequencees will be. Bribes do not work, she will then keep pushing limits to see how far you will go. The only thing is to physically remove her from the location. THat will be really hard to do since you have two others. But I used to tell my daughter, "when we are at the store..I expect you to be on good behavior. Good behavior means no yelling, hitting, crying, etc. If you start to fuss, we will leave the store immediately". There have been times when I had to pick her up and carry her out of the store. I never hit her, just carried her out to the car. No fighting, no yelling. Just be clear what you will do and you have to follow through on what you say. Otherwise, they will keep pushing to find out what your limits are.
I also realize this is inconvienent, but think what it will be like if this behavior continues. Short term pain, for long term gain!

She is now 7 and no longer acts like this...though I always set expecations about behavior before we go anywhere.

Yes, I agree -- the walk away method usually works. Also...try giving a warning by taking her out to your car and talking with her --explaining that if that behavior continues that the outing will end and she'll just go back home..."that if she can't act like a good, big girl at the park (mall, store, etc.) then we'll just have to go home. Only good, well-behaved girls get to go to the mall, park, etc." you get the idea.

And then, follow through on that warning if it happens again. The first few times may mean cutting that outing REALLY short, but it's worth it to get the point across loud and clear.
She's definitely acting out for attention, especially sharing that attention with all her siblings and the new one on the way.

You may try leaving her behind with a sitter a couple of times. Take the other two to do something fun that you know she would like to participate in. Explain to her that since she cannot control herself and act properly in public that she needs to stay at home. After a couple of times try taking her with you if she acts out again then go back to leaving her behind. Let her see that her bad behavior will keep her from participating in fun things that she likes to do. Even though your heart is in the right place don't offer any treats it's just rewarding bad behavior. My Son's Dr says "good behavior is learned and the learning process is never ending". Hopefully, for you, the lesson will be learned quickly.

Good Luck!

Just wanted to add one piece of advice that goes on top of all the others - I have a strong-willed child so I go out of my way to stage learning opportunities. For example, I went to the mall and built up the fact we could play after we finished our errand. She kept running off, I gave her a warning, then we left (with her screaming and me carrying her out of course). I never really had the intention to stay and play because I knew what would happen. I just planned a learning event. I think this is even better than impromptu teaching because it is learning more on my schedule than hers plus it is very powerful because I have no hesitation in doling out the consequence (because I was already ready to do it). The hesitation is very undermining to the lesson. Hope that helps!

Have you tried to give her some responsibility while you are out? Ask her to be the diaper bag carrier or the stroller pusher or hold one of her siblings hands to make sure they don't get lost. Ask her to be 'Mommy's helper' and explain to her what that means ie, be nice, help teach the younger ones the correct way to behave. Tell her she's the big sister and has to help you teach the younger ones. She may feel important and not act out as much.

I sent a post not too long ago in regards to my daughter who was doing the same exact thing. We've thankfully been able to train her out of it (thanks for all the great advice that I received on here.) The first and most important thing that I did with her was to rehearse. I'd tell her where we were going and what she should expect and what I expected when it was time to leave. I would then promise her that if she followed through then she would have a BIG surprise later. The suprise could be anything from a $.99 toy to a trip to the park on the weekend. I started her off that way and now I've incorporated a point system (thanks to another friends advice) Now if she behaves on outings she recieves .05 cents.

Now that I've got the oldest under control the youngest is getting out of control, LOL.

Good luck!

D. I FEEL FOR YOU. MY CHILDREN LEARNED FROM THE TIME THEY COULD UNDERSTAND WHAT KIND OF BEHAVIOR I EXPECTED AT HOME AND IN PUBLIC. I HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN VERY LUCKY, BUT I THINK IF YOU EXPLAIN THE PUISHMENT FOR HTEIR BEHAVIOR AND THE REWARD IF THEY DON'T ACT OUT, AND STICK BY IT IT MAY WORK. MY AUNT TOLD ME A STORY OF HOW SHE THROUGH A FIT NOT TO GO TO SCHOOL ONE DAY AND HER MOM, TOLD HER SHE HAD TO GO VISIT SOME PEOPLE BUT WHEN THEY GOTBACK HOME SHE WAS GETTING A SPANKING.NOW MY MEMA WAS A VERY RELIGIOUS PERSON SO AFTER HAVING A WONDERFUL DAY WITH HER MOTHER IT ENDED WHEN SHE GOT THE SPANKING. IT SOLVED MY AUNT FROM EVER DOING THAT AGAIN.HOPE THIS HELPS SOME.