Altered Sleep Patterns

S.,

My 2 1/2 year old goes through something similar, and I've also read that night terrors are associated with exhaustion. She has -always- fought sleep, and I can get her to take a nap most days, even though it's a battle. But, on the days that she just absolutely won't nap, I know we're in for a rough night.

One thing I've found, is on the days that she misses her nap, I put her to bed as soon as possible, pretty much right after dinner if I can. Because she's not getting WAY past over tired, I found that she sleeps more soundly on those nights, then going to bed at her normal time.

Best of luck!
M.

We also had problems transitioning out of naps with my oldest daughter. She didn't want to take them, but if I made her lie down, she would more often than not go to sleep...but then she would be up until 11pm! It got to the point that I was actively trying to PREVENT her from taking a nap so that I could put her to bed at a decent time! She would also fall asleep the second we got in the car if it was around naptime or anytime after that. The way we resolved it was to put her to bed really, really early when she hadn't napped. I would literally give her dinner at 5:30 or 6pm, have a quick bath and bedtime story, and then have her in bed by 6:30-7. She would fall asleep instantly and sleep all night. We never had the problem with night terrors, but we never let her get that tired. If I knew it was going to be a late night for some reason, I'd let her go ahead and take a nap (she could fall asleep in the car, on the couch watching a video, pretty much anywhere). Sometimes, their sleep patterns are disrupted if they are about to reach a big milestone. Are you working on potty-training? If so and you think she is stressing out about it, you might want to put it on hold until you get the sleeping thing worked out. Good luck!

S.,
You are describing "night terrors." My son had them when he was 3.
I haven't read anything about the exhaustion part. He always had a
strict bedtime. However, the pediatrician advised me to fully wake
him up, take him to the bathroom for a few minutes to calm down
and quietly return to bed. It is frightening to see it, but she will
grow out of it. My did indeed outgrow them and is a great sleeper.

Good luck!

My daughter had similar problems with both of her kids. She resolved it by telling them that they had to have a daily "quiet time" in their beds. They weren't allowed to take books or toys into bed with them. If they stayed in bed for an hour without going to sleep, then she'd let them get up. Believe me, more times than not, they "conk out" after about 10 minutes.

I think a bit of the resistance is a power struggle thing that goes on as your little one becomes more independent. If she balks at the quiet time, tell her that YOU need a quiet time, too, and that she'll have to cooperate so you can rest. Don't lie down with her, though. It will be too much of a distraction for her, and she'll never settle down.

Hope this helps a bit.

When I was a camp counselor for 4th and 5th graders (9-10 year olds mostly), we would require them to have a 90 minute quiet time... we didn't say nap time but that is what a lot of them did! The rules were simple, they had to be in their cabins and couldn't make noise. Some kids would play cards but they had to be able to play without talking... some kids read and some fell asleep because the rest of the day was filled with ACTIVE things.

Perhaps if you require your daughter to have a 90 minute or 2 hour "quiet" time then she will at least REST some and she will most likely fall asleep. Make the rules simple: she must be in her room and in her bed... she can have 3 quiet toys (stuffed animals, books, etc.). Don't let one of the games be electronic or anything else that is automated or noisy...

Hope this helps.
blessings,
stacy

S., know first that this WILL pass. We are going through almost the exact same thing with my almost 3 year old. I really liked Laurie A's response to you. What helps my son when he has a night terror or nap terror is I pick him up and walk him around the house to show him he is at home and in a safe place. This usually stops his crying. Then I take him back to his bed and just hug him and cuddle with him until he goes back to sleep. His terrors usually happen when he is exhausted.

About the transitioning out of naps, all I can say is go with the flow. When he tells me he is tired i do my best to put him down for a nap. When he fights it with all his might, i just skip the nap, and make sure I put him to bed really early, like 7 pm.

My DH and I feel that right now, since it is the winter still and sickness is everywhere, sleep is most important to us. So, if he wakes up in the middle of the night, my husband will just go and lay down with him and even sleep with him just so that we call get some sleep. He usu to be the BEST sleeper too, so I know your anxiety about all this. I will say, things are getting better. . .for the most part he naps everyday (from 1 hour to 2 hours), but occasionally will have a terror, and night time is still a battle, but we are working through it. Right now what helps our son a lot is letting him have a choice. . .he can sleep in his bed or on the floor. . .whichever he prefers (and it changes daily). My kid likes to have a choice, so I just gave into this so that bed time was much more pleasant.

Best wishes to you all.

I don't know for sure what caused the night terrors but my oldest who is now 7 almost 8 has had them since she was aroud 3 also. She also grinds her teeth and sleep walks. She also had febrile seizures when she was even younger. I have tried all kinds of things to help her to sleep better and nothing works. She is scared to go to sleep now everynight and I don't know what else to do. If you get any good ideas then PLEASE pass them on to me. THanks and good luck I know how you feel.

S., I wanted to take a quick moment to share with you our experience with this and it might not be night terrors that your dealing with. My son started doing this same behavior about a year of age and there were no reasons for this behavior. My son was still taking 2 naps a day and he was not exhausted, yet he would wake up screaming, with no responsiveness (it was like he was looking right thru me) and it was very hard to hold him because he would be thrashing around so much and he would pull at his face to the point of scratching himself all up and pulling out his hair. I originally went to the dr and told her what was going on and she told me that it was night terrors and he will grow out of it. After 3 months of this exhausting behavior, I took him back to the dr, because he was now not eating or playing during the day anymore. He was so exhausted and would just lay around all day. She advised me to video tape him during his episode and let her see exactly what he was doing. I did this and she thought that he might be having migraines because he was pulling at his face. I am not saying your child has migraines, but she told me to watch his diet and take out items that had the dyes in it such as red 40, yellow, and blue. After she told me this, I went home and I am not kidding when I tell you this, everything my child loved had some sort of dye in it. We switched all his snacks and stuff to organic and immediately saw a difference in my son. He was sleeping better and his behavior during the day was unbelievable. He was playing again and laughing. He did not have anymore episodes, however he was still waking up whining just a little bit, but nothing like before and this time when he would wake up crying he would acknowledge me, so I knew that it was not like before. Also, I was able to calm him down with just a simple hug or rocking. Because he was still waking up more than usual, the dr recommended that we have a sleep study on him to which we had last week and are still waiting for the results and I would be more than happy to share them with you if you would like.
And your child may simply have night terrors, but I wanted to share with you about the dye and maybe try it and see how your child reacts and maybe it will help. I wish you the best of luck.

Hi S.,
I experienced the night terrors with my son for several yrs. He was older when he began having them so napping was not the issue. He wasn't overly tired. We tried a number of things without change. I did not want to put him on medications. We never figured out what caused them. He too was rigid and screaming with his eyes wide open but unresponsive to questions or attempts to wake him. My husband also had terrors as a child. After several yrs my son stopped having them. My DS always said it was the same terrifying dream. I hope you get an answer that is helpful. I can only add not to be afraid, and stay with your child. It will pass.
Peace, C.

This is really long, sorry.
Sounds like you have 2 things going on.
First her naps schedule is changing. She is probably about to hit a major milestone and a growing spurt. Look at how you schedule her first part of the day. What time does she wake up? Maybe you could encourage her to get up earlier. Feed her breakfast early.

Make sure she is super active physically. Go the park, or play in the back yard. Get her a trike with peddles. Have her drive up and down the sidewalk while you jog or walk. Get her a bigger slide, have her practice hopping, skipping. Play Simon says. Feed her a hearty lunch. Then start doing some quiet activities. Let her color or play inside with no loud noises, Play quiet music. For nap time, make sure her room is dark.. I used to put up quilts so that I could block out the light. Read a story to her. Do not engage her during this time. Read slower and slower. See if you can get her to just do a 1 1/2 hr nap at the most. When she wakes up give her a small snack. and again get her outside. Keep her active until dinner. Then stay on the same night schedule. My mom suggested this technique to us and it worked great. I always remind parents that the length of time you rile up a child is the same amount of time it will take to calm them down. Adults can stop playing instantly, but a child cannot calm down the same way. Try bath time right before bed, close the bathroom door, play quiet music, bathe her in very warm water, do not excite your daughter. While bathing her, rub her with stronger rubs, almost like a massage, speak in low tones. Wrap her in a towel take her to her bedroom. Make sure the lights are low. Have soft music or a white noise machine playing, dry her off with strong wipes, like a massage. Put her in her pajamas.
She will be so tired and calm, she should be pretty sleepy by this time. If you can turn the heat up a few degrees, the warmth will also help her fall asleep.
If you look through Mamasource you will notice many, many posts about this. Your child is not alone..

The second thing is she is having bad dreams. There was post on Jan 26th, 2009 This was my response. She must be a very creative and intelligent child to scare herself.

You need "dream coins". A client told me about these many years ago. They are "magic coins". They look like quarters to everybody else, but when placed under your daughters pillow, all scary things go away. Also when you travel, the quarters are great, because you do not have to worry about not having one, they will work on out of town scary nights, just like at home.

This worked very well for our daughter. One time when we were changing her sheets, I found a lot of coins under her pillow, I asked "why are there all of these coins under your pillow?". She said" I was having a really, really , scary dream so I put lots of coins there to make them go away"...

I remember another mom responded to this on mamasource, she said to get a spray bottle and to pour water in it, then you use this to "spray away" all of the monsters all around the room, closet, wherever the scary things are... I loved the idea...

Talk with your childs Dr. about this and let him know what is going on. He may want to do a sleep test.

I would suggest taking her to a children's sleep specialist, as they would be able to help you diagnose the problem. My thoughts are with you as I have a child that is just a kid that fights off sleep, he goes until his body crashes, but won't take a nap. He is scared of the dark, but is fine with his lamp or closet light on.

Don't fight this, I had the same problem with my 3 yr olds, I just get in the car at around 12:30pm and drive for an hour and then park for an hour with a good book. This will pass I do this periodically, Sleep makes for more sleep and restfull behaviors. I usually go through the drive through get a coffee and take a long 360 drive to Lakeway and back and then sit at the destination of my errands reading my book.

I also have had low key mornings with 2 tv shows, puzzles, reading books, playdough or painting quiet activities in the morning and put them down in their beds at 11am and it worked too, catching them when they are tired and not over tired. This works great with a restless night prior because they are really exhausted and need to go back to bed (They usually sleep 3 hours sometimes on these days.

Good Luck, 3 yr olds need their sleep they are asserting their independence which gets in the way of what their body needs.

If no nap is successful I start, dinner 5, bath right after, books at 6:30pm and bed. They get 12hrs a sleep this way going to bed 7 to 7am.

We had similar problems with my daughter regarding the napping (everything but the night terrors). She would have really fitful sleeps, getting up several times a night. For her, either the car or stroller would put her to sleep in the middle of the day, if she needed it (and she usually did). We ended up timing stroller or car rides for 1:00 pm every day, and it seemed to work. It took about 15-20 minutes for her to sleep, and she would sleep for a little more than an hour. By 3 1/2 yrs old, it stopped working, so we put the stroller way...and we determined that she did not need naps anymore. If she became cranky, we would put her to bed by 7:30 pm. She is 6 yrs old now and she is up at 6:45 am, and asleep by 7:45 pm. That schedule seems to work pretty well. Good luck.

I'm going through the same thing and unfortunately have no advice for you. My son will be 3 in June and his sleeping is a nightmare (literally). He fell asleep on the couch at 6pm last night with no dinner and then woke up hysterical (he was crying and could not be consoled) at 7, 8 and 9 until I finally just brought him downstairs for an hour to calm him down. I am at a loss for what to do, I feel so sorry for him.

Those definitely sound like night terrors to me. My son has had plenty of them. I have always read not to try and wake them. Just sit with them (so they don't get hurt) and wait for it to pass. It seems like forever since they can sometimes last quite a while. I'm surprised one pedi out there recommended that mom wake the child. Anyway, just ask your pedi what their opinion is. It would happen to our son when he was overly exhausted, sick or getting sick. It seems like 2 and a half is a little young to be phasing out naps but every child is different. Our son started the phase a few months after he turned 3. It wasn't one of those situations where he napped one day and by the next was never napping again. He would nap every other day, then every few days, etc. Sometimes, he'd get a 15-30 minute nap in the car. We would try to encourage a little sleep but finally gave up putting him in his room for naptime. Regardless, he had to have some down time. We would either allow him to read alone in his room or watch a TV show on the couch. Transitions are hard but it will soon pass (and once that happen, the night terrors will most likely slow down). At that point, if they don't, you might want to involve a sleep specialist. I don't think you need to take it that far just yet, however. Good luck to you. I know how scary this can be.

My almost 3 yo daughter decided that she would no longer take daytime naps in her bed... So my solution is that she gets on the sofa around 3-3:30 and I turn on the golf channel... (No, I don't watch golf myself...). She falls asleep immediately, right there on the sofa. If you can't find golf, then turn on something equally boring and non-stimulating. Allow her to nap somewhere else if she resists sleeping in her room. The goal of course is to get her to sleep, regardless of where.

Good luck!

My daughter just turned 3 yrs old on feb 11th and even before she turned three she didn't want to take naps. I have a 19 month old who will take a nap and when i want her to go to sleep with him, she won't. She will say she's not tired and she want's to play. Even though i know she is tired she looks so energetic. And just like your little girl, when we get into the car she will fall asleep. Some times not as fast but always goes. Lately while we were sleeping i would hear her saying get out out of my room mommy and jus saying random things. So, of course i freaked out because i thought some one was in our home and when we checked on her, she was sleep, some times with her eyes open. She was talking and some more, i would be so scared that i would have to shake her to wake her up. Once i woke her up, i held her and then she went back to sleep. It hasn't happened in a while but im not sure if it's normal or not. If you find out any information please contact me, ____@____.com.

This sounds exactly like my three year old son's night terrors. The neurologist called them "arousals" because they're a bit more serious. We actually thought our son was having seizures and took him to the hospital but when the EEG told us that they weren't seizures we were relived! The night terrors are terrible too though, and the worst part is they can't really do much for children who have them. (This is what the neurologist told me) And they eventually outgrow them. My son turned four a week ago..and guess what. He hasn't had anymore, and I'm extremely glad.

It is the saddest thing to see your child like that. If I were you, just to be safe, I would take her in the her pedi just to make sure they can't do anything for her..since they come up with new treatments every day. Good luck with your little girl! I hope I helped some.

Have you tried laying down with her for a little while for her nap. Also, tell her she doesn't have to go to sleep, she just has to rest her eyes and body. Also, let her know when the timer goes off, she's welcome to get up even if she didn't sleep, but on the condition that she lays very still for the nap time. She obviously still needs a nap, even just a short one. But, you have to make her lay still and quiet. Set the timer for one hour. Require her to lay still and quiet. If she's not trained to do this. You have to train her for awhile. Sit in there with her to watch her and tell her to be still everytime she begins to move around. Again, she doesn't have to sleep, just rest her eyes and she can get up when the timer goes off. Most of the time, she will fall asleep and you can remove the timer from the room when she does.

Are you positive she wasn't having a seizure?

Good Luck,
D