Hard Time with a "Smart" 5 Year Old!!!!

Wait, is he putting himself to bed?
"we expect him to do the right thing" and "he's not to be trusted?"
WOW.
Five is really young for that, no matter how "smart" he is.
If you are going to sleep while he is still up you are basically leaving him unsupervised, and that just doesn't seem like a good idea.
If he has a TV in his room, take it out, since you can't "trust" him :(
I LOVED reading to my kids at bedtime when they were that age. Maybe you could try that instead.

I've never heard of a five year old turning off the TV and putting themselves to bed. Next time, go in there read him a story, talk about his day, and tuck him to bed. Young children are a lot of work, but so worth it. This is precious time you could be spending talking to him about the world we live in and passing down your beliefs and values. Before you know it he'll be spending his evenings with his friends and you'll wish you could have this time back.

As you observed, you have an adult sense of proper scheduling and an adult ability to follow through. The "self-control" portions of your 5yo's brain have a long way to go before he will be able to consistently choose the "right" thing. He will be well into adulthood himself by then.

Until then, it really is up to you to "help" him make the right choices most of the time. Heck, I will even stay up too late if it means I get to watch two more episodes of The Office. Or I will eat a cookie I know I shouldn't (I'm diabetic). And I'm an adult who has been working hard to make more and more positive choices over my 63 years.

My mother had the sorts of opinions you have about what you think your son's good judgement should be, and she had a very strong, punitive streak when my three sisters and I fell short. As a result, we got spankings, suspended privileges, and extra chores daily, because we simply weren't the tiny adults she expected.

All of us turned out to be extremely dysfunctional. All of us expected never to try to raise kids of our own, though 2 of us eventually have. The other 2 are confused, lonely, despairing people who have tried all sorts of drugs and cults to deal with their inner pain, who have horrible love/hate relationships with our mom, and who have absolutely terrible assessments of themselves as human beings. The 2 of us who have more or less "recovered" from our upbringings have done so through expensive therapy and counseling. And even as a 'senior,' I'm often surprised to realize how far I have to go.

We are not unique. I've met a number of similar families over the years with almost identical problems, because their punishment-minded parents had unrealistic expectations. In fact, my best girlfriend of many, many years was raising a child with this approach. She couldn't hear my concerns, and kept arguing with me, "Well, I HAVE to teach her right from wrong. It's my JOB!" Her daughter, now 40+, feels deeply obligated to her mom, but dislikes her intensely. She's also a confused, self-hating and unhappy woman, unable to find a satisfying relationship because all the men she has dated treat her like her mom treated her.

I know I'm coming on awfully heavy. And I could be wrong about your overall stance on parenting. But there are so many little tip-offs in your request that sound exactly like the things my mother used to say. Perhaps you were raised that way yourself, and that's what comes out automatically.

But here's what I've learned from a lifetime of healing, and watching, and studying results. It is possible to raise happy, responsible, polite, self-reliant kids with very little-to-no punishment, in the traditional sense. Natural consequences, yes, Spankings, time-outs, deprivations, no. I raised my most wonderful daughter that way. She is raising her amazing son that way. And in my religious community, I've watched two whole generations of kids who were largely raised without punishment. Just consequences and reason. They're terrific kids who grow into emotionally healthy adults.

I've been using one of the best parenting books ever in my interactions with my smart, verbal, 5yo grandson. I'm impressed, again and again, with the peaceful ways it teaches us to draw the child into the business of defining problems and finding workable, often unique and creative, solutions. And a child who is allowed to find his own solutions will be pretty darn dedicated to making sure they work.

This wonderful book is How to Talk So Kids Will Listen, and Listen So Kids Will Talk, by Faber and Mazlish. It is easy to read, easy to understand, and easy to start implementing the techniques one chapter at a time. I've recommended this book to several young parents who later told me they couldn't imagine how they ever got along without it.

Wishing your family the best of everything.

ADDED: This is a most eye-opening and clarifying article on lying as part of a child's behavior: nymag.com/news/features/43893/index1.html

Just because a child is intelectually mature for his age does not mean that he is emotionally mature for his age. In fact I have met many children who are brilliant, but emotionally stunted. Like a 6 year old I used to babysit who could read at a high school level and was amazing at math, but who threw more tantrums than a 2 year old and still had potty accidents (not autistic BTW). His mom and dad treated him like he was older than he really was and it caused all kinds of problems. Even the smartest child (or teenager) can not think like a rational adult, their brains have not matured yet. Your son is showing you that he is NOT READY to be responcible for his own bedtime and you need to respond by being there every step of the way to tell him "OK, now you've got your jammies on, time to brush teeth, put your tooth brush away, now story time, all right, lights out, good night." And the same goes for other tasks that he is not completing on his own, he needs lots of supervison at this age. Smart children are often easily distractred by something that interests them (like a book they are reading or a beetle they are watching) and they often need more help staying on task than their peers. No matter how much you punish after the fact, your son may STILL have a hard time staying on task unless you or your husband are right there making sure he is doing what he is supposed to. As he gets a little older of course that will not be nessesary, but he is only 5 and still needs your help to regulate his actions. Good luck!

Seems simple to me: Just go back to your "school time" rules. Very matter of factly, tell him that he will be following the same schedule that he does for school regarding bedtime. When he objects (and he will) just TELL him: Your Dad and I tried to allow extra privileges, but they were abused, so we will go back to following the regular routine. (Make sure you call it what it is: a privilege!). When you have shown that you can be trusted to follow the rules properly, then perhaps we'll consider extra privileges again. (When he objects/whines again.. and he will.... refer to 1-2-3 Magic and count him).

After a week or so of him doing well at bedtime, then bring it up. Let him know that you and Dad are happy to see that he is following the rules about bedtime and that you are considering allowing him the privilege of staying up a bit later some. Then ask him, "Do you think that you can follow the rules that go along with the extra privilege?" When he says "Yes!", remind him that if he does not follow the instructions associated with this extra privilege, that he will, again, revert to the "regular" routine. He'll believe you because he'll know you mean it from experience.

I don't think he's being defiant. I think he's being intelligent. You have to make your expectations clear. And if he is super smart and your expectations aren't laid out clearly, he will simply find the route that allows him to do what he wants to do WITHOUT defying you. In this instance, he did not defy you! :-)

My four year old is famous for doing this! You just have to take a deep breath and realize that you are working with a bright kid. Make sure you outline EXACTLY what you mean. And just smile inwardly when he finds a loophole. Seal it up for next time. And then wait for the next loophole to be found. Because it will be! :-)

I like the punishment to fit the crime, so in this instance, I would say no more TV before bed this week. No negotiating. You could also do something else TV related, like no TV at all for 3 days or something if you choose; it depends on how much TV your family watches. I think that since the "crime" had to do with before bedtime TV, I would stick with the first suggestion. As for the behavior overall, stay calm, have consequences for all unwanted behaviors, and stick to the consequences. He's a smart boy. He'll figure out quickly that you mean business.

Don't let him sleep late the next morning. If he complains about being sleepy, remind him that it's a consequence of not going to bed on time.

I asked my son(who's 9) what should happen and he said, "take away his remote control". Then hopefully he won't be smart enough to rewind the show without the remote.

It is all or nothing.
And, go back to his usual bedtime. Not the 'summer' version of it.

He is controlling the scene, now.
Don't let him.

He is old enough, to know what respect is.
Don't play up the idea, (to him) that he is outwitting everyone.

Once, I told my daughter, "Mommy knows what you are up to. I am smarter than you. You cannot fool me." and then, I pointedly and bluntly told her in detail, what she is doing and how she is thinking and how she is thinking that her 'plan' can outsmart me and what her plan was. That I know, already, what she is up to. She was aghast. That I had figured her out. She then knew, I WAS 'smarter' than her.

At a certain age, you need to be just blunt. No hinting. Just be direct.

NO tv for him. At all, now. Because, he took advantage of his parents and was not, honest.
HE, could have, honestly just simply asked you nicely... if he could watch another 10 minutes. Instead, he lied and then rewound the show and kept saying it was not done yet.
BUT, a show is only 1/2 hour. So then, you could know, what he was up to.
WHEN he starts a show, for his 30 minutes before bed... Put on a timer... and note down WHEN he started the show. Then there is no way, around manipulating how long he watched, already.
Put the egg timer on you, so that he cannot then, grab that and change the time on it, either.
Since he is prone to manipulating things, to be not honest about it.

You need to call him on it.
Bluntly.

Take away, what matters to him.
And you explain, bluntly and explicitly... how he is being inappropriate.
You tell him "You are a part of this family, so behave like a part of this family."

Take away, his attitude of "entitlement."

MAKE him, do CHORES around the house.
He is old enough, to do that.
To take PART in the family and the house. HE lives in it too.
Make him, this summer, be more responsible. Make him EARN things and "privileges." Including, TV before bed.
Give him assignments, to do around the house.
Daily.
And to do things for you too. A kid has to learn that too. Doing things for others, to help.

And YOU decide what the bedtime routine is. Not him.
Then stick to it.

IS the tv in his room??? If so, TAKE IT OUT OF HIS ROOM. Period.

My daughter is the same way, she will be 5 in August. I have found that having the rules written down and posted where she can read them helps. Also having the consequences fit the situation and having the same consequence for that situation but maybe extend it if you need to use it a 2nd, 3rd, 4th time.

Misusing TV privilage means no TV the next day, misuse it again no TV two days and so on. If being disrespectfully at a playdate then you leave. Talking rudely I either do no respond because that is not the way to get something, sometimes I will say that is not a way to talk to anyone (I get down on my daughters level have her look at me and acknowlage that she understands/hear me. Taking away all the fun stuff I think just well make him more disrespectful. I remember my brother being extermly defiant and all the spanking and grounds did no good, finally he just matured in highschool on his own time. My parents struggled with him too, not sure they really figured out how to handle it besides to remind him over and over and over again how to act.

My daughter likes to be incharge of herself, it is part of their learning process. What I have done is made a chart, she checks off when she has done something (daily stuff like brush teeth, chores, any routine at bed time and so on). She does stay up 30 mins later, instead of 8pm bedtime it is 8:30pm. She can not watch tv before bed, it does not help her calm down, we read a book or two instead.

I'm with Angela on this one. I'd say, you broke the rules watching TV, so no more watching TV before bed. Sorry, Charlie! If he abuses the privilege, he loses the privilege. He is a smart kid, so he will learn that if he likes to have privileges, he has to learn to respect the rules surrounding them. Plain and simple!

BTW, my youngest likes to "outwit, outplay and outlast" also... it is a real chore keeping tabs on her sometimes, but the good thing is, once a kid like that knows you mean business, they tend to get with the program pretty quickly. ;)

Be a bit lenient within set boundaries and STICK to it. If you allow him to watch an extra 30 minutes of TV, set the timer and when the 30 mins is up, don't just tell him to turn it off, turn it off yourself and tell him time is up.

The response is going to be pouting, mouthing off, tantrum, telling you he does not like you any more and all that typical 5yr old stuff, but do not give in, plug your ears and send him to his room or whatever boundaries you have set. After a few minutes he will get over it and you have made your rules clear. Give him a hug and play with him as usual.

Mine hates his room, so for me that's punishment enough just to sit in there quietly, for you it might be something different, but whatever it is, don't be thrown off guard by his actions.

I have a smarty, too and high expectations. Though I would have been upset, I agree that he was being innovative. Don't love it, but he does have to test. "Well, the rules seem to be changing so maybe I can push a bit more." I would do what it seem you've done, take the TV away and have a discussion about the value of trust. Trust is such a difficult thing to explain at this point but it is currency. I have my daughter earn privledges by having her explain the rules to me. That way she is more invested. Best!

Ahh I have one of these. The timer on my phone is invaluable. It helps me to keep track and he can't argue with it. Also, I give 15, 10 , and 5 minute warnings. If he does not comply when it's time there are consequences. Try to make the rules as cut and dry as possible so there are no "shade of grey" arguments like the one you had with the tv last night - even if it means seeming a little inflexible and unfair - for instance his 30 minutes are up and he has not finished the show because he rewound it - too bad! I agree with the others that you should keep his sleep schedule the same, even if it is summer. Use blackout curtains if light is a problem.