Need Some Advice - Dunedin,FL

it does not sound like ADHD. it sounds like depression. i know that sounds strange since it is a boy, but it happens. my daughter is 15 and we are going through this with her. her grades fell (she was an A-B student, honor roll, etc), she cries easily, we struggle with homework, her teachers call me when she does not do her work, and they know me by my first name.

see about having him evaluated by a psychologist. something may have happened at school - girls, bullying - that you don't know about, and for whatever reason, he is too emberassed to tell you about.

if it is depression, there is medication to help while he gets counseling. the medication is not a long term solution. it's a short term solution while he gets counseling.

It sounds like he could use some professional counseling. There may be issues taht he is having trouble speaking to you about, which a professional may be able to help elicit and deal with. He may have a mental health issue (e.g. depression) that may need intervention. Family counseling may also help, but he sounds like he could use some one-on-one time with someone outside of the situation to open up to. Best of luck.

Could there be bullying issues at school he hasn't revealed to you yet?

Might homeschooling for a while be an option, to let him find his own stride and work at his own pace without having to fit into the routine demanded by school? This might help him gain confidence and find learning methods that work for him.

There are some great books about ADHD/ADD and how to combat those with diet, which might be as effective and healthier than meds.

Hi C.
I am a mom of three. My middle child was 11yr old when he was behaving very similiar to what you have decribed your child as being. He is very intelligent and I think you are making the best decision to go your pediatrician. A good through check up is the start. To keep a long story short, my son was diagnosed with Grave's disease-hyperactive thyroid(metabolism is fast) and it took the doctors about a full year to diagnose him. Graves disease is a "womans disease" and here is an 11yr old boy?! So, start with the doctor, blood work and go from there. Please don't let the "schools" label your child as ADHD and throw him on some medication! Investigate all avenues and go from there. Weigh all suggestions/solutions etc. Above all, "trust" your gut! Otherwise, known as "mother's instinct"... I relied on that and didn't believe the schools and what they said about my son. They labeled him as ADHD and guess what?? He Is NOT!! He just had a problem with his thyroid. Imagine? Hope this helps. Please repost and let me know how it all turns out. Thanks.. Sincerely, M. (Mom of 3)

I used to teach 3rd - 5th grade (4th was my favorite, by the way) and sometimes kids just hit a grade that's harder for them. He sounds like he's overwhelmed with it all.

I would meet with the teacher to discuss EXACTLY what is happening in the classroom. If he's not finishing his work in class, what is he doing during that time? Is he acting out? Then he needs to be moved and better monitored. Is he just not focusing? Then she needs to stay on top of him to keep him focused. Simply moving him closer to her would help. He should not be coming home with tons of homework like that. In high school, maybe. But not in 4th grade. Maybe she needs to just check his work more often or walk by his desk to make sure he's staying on task.

Also, is he having problems with the homework? If he's doing the actual work with no problems, it doesn't sound like it's too hard for him. If it's too hard for him, then maybe there's a learning disability or he could simply need some tutoring.

So I would meet with the teacher to find out exactly what is going on in the classroom. If he's not doing his work, well what is he doing all day? And how is he able to do nothing all day and get away with it? If you don't get answers there, I would meet with the school's guidance counselor to talk to him/her about it. Maybe the guidance counselor could talk to your son and find out what's going on. Maybe he/she can look into whether it's an emotional issue, problems with the actual work, etc. She can also tell you if he should be tested for a learning disability. It's hard for me to say without actually knowing him.

Keep us updated.
L.

Go visit School of the Suncoast and talk to Barbara Bedingfield. She is an excellent source of helpful information for children. She is a school teacher and one of the founders of the above school. She has many other credentials that would lend her to be helpful in this department. Here is the school site:
www.suncoastwaldorf.org
Another source of help would be a parent educator that I used, Jennifer Day. She has written many books on children's emotional health and she is big on the parents doing things to help the children, not drugs or labeling the children.
Here is her site www.appliedemotionalmastery.com
She lives in St. Petersburg and will come to your home for counseling, etc. She is wonderful.

If you are able to change schools, it might be helpful to...but I would talk to Jennifer Day first and see what she thinks.

Another source could be a book called "Redirecting Children's Behavior", not sure of the author...

Best to you,
A. Norris

Wow, have I got a response for you. My son is now 15 and we were in your shoes 4 years ago. My son is gifted and had always done great in the small Christian school we had him in. We all felt that for middle school, he needed more of a challenge, so we moved him to Berkeley Prep. He went from being top of the class, to being close to the bottom. He was suffering academically, socially, and emotionally. I am a teacher, so the academic part was easier for me to "fix." Through constant communication with his teachers, and a system of rewards and consequences, we got most of the work done, but it was a constant struggle. Socially, he matured in 7th and 8th grade, so that took care of itself. Unfortunately, the emotional struggle intensified, and in May of last year, my son tried to commit suicide. While he was in the hospital, a psychiatrist visited with him. After a 10 minute "evaluation," he asked us if we had ever tested him for ADD or ADHD. We, of course, had the same reaction you did. "We didn't want him labeled, and we didn't want to medicate him." At that point, though, we were ready to try anything, so we had him professionally tested, and, sure enough, he has ADD! Just knowing that there is a processing disorder in his brain, assured him that it wasn't all his fault that he was unable to concentrate, focus, and follow-through with his schoolwork. We now have a great psychologist, a great psychiatrist, and medication that enables my son to focus. He is able to concentrate in class, comprehend the material better, focus on his homework, and remember to turn in his assignments. Before, he would DO the work, but he would lose it before he could get it to the teacher. Plus--THE BIG THING--we sent him to school this year with a 504 Plan. This indicates to his teachers that he has a learning disability. It has made them more caring and understanding, so instead of scolding him for missed work, they encourage him to do better, and they take measures to help him be more successful in the classroom. He sits in the front of the class, near the teacher so distractions are minimized, and they give him extra time to complete and turn in assignments. I have seen his self-esteem go from nothing to confidence in less than a year. He's talking about college and his future--praise the Lord!

You said your son was on honor roll until 4th grade. He obviously has the ability to do the work. If he has ADD, that processing disorder is keeping him from working up to his true potential. He knows he's disappointing you and his teachers and, most importantly, himself. Make an appointment TODAY. Get him tested. If he doesn't have ADD, then you can start ruling out other issues. But if he does have ADD, then you can get him the help he needs before it's too late. Please don't let him get to the point that my son go to. Trust me--you DON'T want to go there! I recommend Dr. Johnathan Greenstein for the testing. He is located on Armenia, just south of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd. in Tampa. His number is ###-###-####. Good luck--I'll say a prayer for you today.

Certainly go to the pediatrician, but also make an appointment to meet with his teacher and principal or guidance counselor. Things that came to my mind when I read this letter were: Does he need glasses? You could have his eyes checked, is he being bullied? And I almost hate to mention it- but what about drugs?
Do you remember when it started? And for how long? Who are his friends? What about talking to their parents? Are they having the same difficulties
My 7 year old son is very sensitive. He would cry at the drop of a hat. We found a good karate school for him to go to. It gives him confidence and they talk about bullies and what you should do. They insist that fighting is the very last step. He also has increased his memory ( he has to learn the forms) and he is proud of his accomplishments.
Hope that helps
Good luck

Let trustworthy people diagnose him. Not the end of the world to have him diag.d as add or adhd. My son was diagnosed by a school psychologist friend when he was around 9. Never did the meds. YOU DON"T HAVE to. There are many ways to help your child without meds AND I have known many children and adults on meds that did fine. Overmedication is a problem. Responsible medication is not.

When my son was diagnosed I felt like a cog in my wheel of life had just connected. It explains so much. I did not tell him his label. He figured in out in highschool. I NEVER let him use it as an excuse. I said (this was about the impulsiveness of adhd and inability to sit still) "I've realized that when Cathy needs to sit through a lesson, she does. But when you do, you have to fight very hard to do that. That is a weakness. Know that about yourself and we'll learn ways to help you. He seemed quite relieved.

Remember, it is like diagnosing any health problems, when there is something not working right, that used to...something is wrong someplace. Don't be afraid to find out the why. It will only help everyone in your family. If you suspect add or adhd, read the excellent book, Driven to Distraction. take it slow and easy and trust the trustworthy.
momcat

Does your school offer tutoring? or extended days? It sounds like he is overwhelmed and a little depressed. it doesnt sound like ADHD to me at all. . I would take him to a ped. who might reccomend a counselor. Middle School was much harder on me than high school was. kids can be vicious.
Also, can you give him a break between school and homework? good luck. just as long as he knows you love him, you'll get through it.

First of all, get his hearing and eyes tested. ADHD usually starts to appear at the beginning of grade school (1-2nd grade) so I would think it is probably something else, but it does go undiagnosed sometimes until much later, especially with "gifted" kids who are able to mask it better--but don't be scared, and start screening him for other difficulties he may be having. Talk to his teachers and ask them their opinions too--they may be noticing things you aren't (bullying, squinting, emotional maturity, etc). The important thing is that you know there is something obviously wrong, you now need to find out what it is, and THEN work with the professionals to find out what the best course of treatment is--like I said, he may just be nearsighted....

A

My nephew is 13 and has been acting the exact way you describe your boy for a few years now. A few weeks before Christmas he threatened to commit suicide. I'd been telling my sister for over a year that she needed to get him to see a counselor but she put it off and it did not get better. He had to be put in the mental health hospital for more than a week and is now on antidepressants. They're still working on what type and dosage is right for him, but he's on the road to getting help. He was diagnosed with severe depression and some form of skizophrenic tendencies. I'm so glad that she took his threat seriously and did something about it. I don't want to imagine a world without him in it.
My advice to you is to stop worrying about any label or medication he may need and figure out what is going on with a professional. Get the help for him since he doesn't know how to do it on his own. If you think that someone diagnoses him too quickly or not thoroughly enough, get a second opinion and a third opinion before giving him medication. But don't wait to act. Life is too precious to watch it being wasted away in front of your eyes.

I have just went through this same problem with my 12 yr old who is in a magnet school. He went from As to Fs. I had a conference with all his teachers and got there take on the situation. He crys and gets really mad at different times I can't believe its hormones but since I also have a five and four year old girls and he resents helping out since he is so much older and was the only child for so long. I check every book and every assignment every day. Never believe them- tell him tears don't work that you love him and he has let you down and he will need to earn your trust again and you are now hes keeper as well as the teachers. My sons grades are improving back to As but he still may fail 6th grade how unbelieve able is that. But I know more now than ever and I wish I had been doing this all along and we would not be where we are now.

hi just thought of something yes he could b diagnosed with ADHD. Technology has come so far so ifit is the case well then u need t do whatever the doc says. But have u considered home tutering? along with ADHD this can helpntoo. Make it fun check out several tutorsto see which one ur son interacts well with.God bless and good luck to u

Has anything major happened in the past two years? Move, death in family, different school? No child should be doing homework until bedtime. Have you met with the teachers? Can you sit down with him and assess how much time is he working on the homework or is he daydreaming? I wonder if you and the teacher can work out a way of daily communication regarding what work needs to be done. If you know what is to be turned in you could review it at the end of the day and make sure he has completed it. I think it is a good idea to see the ped. remember you have the final choice regarding his healthcare. I can't imagine that he has ADHD if he sitting every evening doing his work.
We all want our children to be happy- I wish you the best.

Hi! I feel for you! When I got pregnant with my first child I started homeschooling my little brother who was 8 or 9 at the time because he was the same way. Before this the school system had basicly cornered my mom into taking him to the doctor for what they called ADHD. The doctor agreed and put him on meds that they constantly changed or changed doses. Nothing ever worked it just made him more upset and violent. Finally, after a year or two she had me start with the homeschooling. That helped dramatically after a while. After about two years he was way ahead of public school. Later she changed doctors and found out he was not ADHD he just had some emotional problems and needed counciling. In the mean time he had been on these very severe ADHD (psychiatric) drugs. I still don't think he has recovered completely from this and I don't know if he ever will. He is able to be in school now in 10th grade but still has some problems mostly with anger. My mom wishes she could go back and change her decision. They miss label children more than people know and these drugs cause extreme anger problems in alot of children and in others make them zombie like so they can be tolerated (schools like this). Pretty soon the whole world will be medicated. My advice get some really good counciling (don't stop until you do) and ALWAYS be on his side. I don't mean with him, if he is in trouble at school then he should be in trouble at home because he has to have respect for authority. But if you don't agree with the principle or who ever there is a problem with then you need to sit him outside the office or where he can't hear you and then you need to let it be known that you are on his side but that only because he is in trouble there, he will be taught that when he is there what they say goes. We have a rule trouble at school is trouble at home, no excuses! Don't let him hear you talk about him at all even with the doctor/priciple or children start to believe something is wrong with them. Don't let anyone talk you in to medicating him at all. It changes children. Most boys grow out of it with counciling. Also, monitoring his diet helps alot. Limit sugar, fast food and if you can eat as much organic as possible. This is hard but can change his life. Boys are taught by the world that they are not aloud to feel. This is a big problem. Spend lots of one on one time with him where he has your complete attention. I have a 7 year old who is a total different kid when I do this. And so was my brother when my mom did. We went on "dates" milkshake night, dinner (without a play area), the park, paddle boating at the lake, basketball at a park, a picnic etc. Try really hard to make this a time where he doesn't get in trouble but redirect the problem. Where he can talk to you if he wants and starts to trust you more as a parent. This was extremely beneficial after I had my second child. Now my husband and I do it with both the kids about once a week and we switch kids each time. Even if it is just 30 minutes we try to do it atleast once a week that way the kids can count on us. We try to shoot for an hour or two though that is not always the case because my husband is always working and travels alot. Sometimes I have to get one busy with something or napping so I can make art work or something with the other one. No matter what they half to get a strong feeling that they can always trust us. Just like any relationship in our lives trust is earned, it is not just there. Also, if you can make it work homeschooling works wonders. Circle Christian has a great program where than can go to school one or two days a week and homeschool the others.

I agree with many of the other posts about trying to weed out what has caused this sudden change in him. Is the work really too hard for him? Is there too much pressure to perform because of FCAT? Are there things going on with other kids such as bullying, etc.? Have there been any changes at home or with your family (deaths, births, etc.) that could be affecting him?

I think once you figure out what is at the root of it you will be able to find a solution.

I think homeschooling might be an option. The way most schools are set up is not conducive to how boys naturally operate. I know my own son would have a terrible time sitting still at a desk for many hours a day at school. He needs to be moving, doing hands on stuff, and having fun to learn. It is fairly easy to homeschool in Florida in terms of laws and stuff. And you can tailor your homeschooling to your child's needs and abilities and have lots of fun doing it.

Good luck!

C.,
Meet with the teacher, principal and the councilor at the school and discuss how much homework he needs to have and please sit down with him and help him -- start with at most an hour every day. Give him outside time to play -- it is necessary for the boys to have the physical exercise. Did his school change? He needs one to one time with you or hubby to sit down and get him going. It may mean that you are working less hours and having less money .. but you know the importance of stepping in right now. Also, take him to the Dr. but just spend time with him and he might open up and tell you what is so hard for him.
God bless you and your family.

Hi C.,

I have a 13 year old in 7th grade. She has ADD and we have been through this, this year. She comes home from school and works sometimes until midnight and will get up at 4am or 4:30am to finish. She also has been exremely depressed about her grades falling. I know you do not want your son on medication but I finally convinced my daughter to follow the doctor's recomendations and increase hers. Things are not 100% better but they have improved alot. I too am extremely concerned about the medication she is on. We take her off of it during vacations, summerbreak and weekends that she is not overwhelmed with homework. One more thing, my daughter is also very bright and goes to an extremely difficult school. Do not think that ADD or ADHD will stop your son from being a good student, he just needs to deal with it. One of the best things that has worked for me was to remind my daughter that she does have ADD when she becomes frutrated. It helps calm her down and reminds her that she requires more effort to concentrate at times or to try what is frustrating her later. I wish you the best of luck.

I have younger kids, one in a Montessori Kindergarten program and the 2 1/2 year old is part of a couple of organized homeschool groups. I wonder if your son is struggling because the schools put so much pressure on kids to perform well for the FCAT tests? I mean, are they really learning anything or are they learning how to take tests?? That's why I'm drawn to schools like Montessori and Waldorf that put less emphasis on the tests and allow the kids some freedom in the classroom to work on projects they have interest in. Think about when you had to study for a test on a subject you had no interest in? Wasn't it hard for you to learn the material? And then how much did you retain? Think about when you decided you wanted to learn about a particular subject that you had great interest in and were excited about. How much easier was it for you to learn and test on the subject?

Maybe your son just needs a different school that allows him more freedom and less emphasis on memorization for the purpose of test taking.

Best wishes,
G.

I had this happen to my daughter in 4th grade. I did alot of reading on it and found that most bright children get bored at grade 4 if school is taught in a boring way. This means that if the child is being (auditory ) by lectures and they are not auditory learners then they can only absorb the info for so long and then the info comes at them and feels as thought it goes right over their head. This is how I described it for myself but never expressed it to my daughter. One day when she was telling me how she fealt in school this is excatly how she worded it. So now my daughter is a New College graduate and on her way to a double masters program. She one day thanked me when she said " thanks for homeschooling me mom , if it wasn't for you I never would have gone to college ." I never try to talk anyone into homeschooling but I do encourage them to look into it because it takes way less time then it appears it would. Or a good school where they are not just learning to pass the tests. Statics show that they will forget a high percentage of what they learn if they are not interested or if they are only engaging in the use of 1 sense when they take in the info. My daughter was taking home her books too. And it was way easier to skip that and do it in the day. Later frustration can lead to drug use etc. in an older child who has stuffed their feelings when they realize that expressing these feeling has done no good. Plenty of other kids could have already learned to stuff it and he may think or you may think he's the only one having a problem getting with the "norm". My experience is the norm is not normal. Learning outdoors alot and within society is normal. Being stuck in school all day is off. I have been with homeschooling families for 15 years while teaching my own kids at home. this is what I have learned .
good luck
S. ###-###-####

Hi C.,
I have a nine year old. One thing I can suggest is to make him your priority customer for a year.
If you have your own business, you are likely very busy. He may really need to see that he is number one with you two.
At my kid's school, the principal and all the staff are SO very willing to work with you. They require 20 hours of volunteer time per family. Just to let you know, I have over 250 hours in since August. My kids KNOW I am there, and they know where they are in the priority of my life, and my husband also since he is making it so I can be there so much.
You may not be able to put in time at that level, but sorry to say I think it makes a HUGE difference. Can you re-evaluate your time and make more for him?
Also, I can recommend a book called "Yardsticks" which discusses the general demeanor and problems of kids by age group. It is helpful to know most other kids are hitting similar "walls."
Don't give up on him. PS. If you do decide to get help, and they give you a diagnosis, you are under no obligation to give it to the school. He doesn't have to be labeled...
Good luck, I will think of you in my prayers.
NancyT

First if its ADD you don't have to put him on meds .... my oldest has ADD and she is a B C student in school the biggest issue is school work which her teacher sweet guy has a poor memory is supposed to be sending home as homework. my daughter wasn't dx'd with ADD till 1st grade( she was held back in kindergarden) so should have been her second grade year. i generally help my daughter with her homework and make sure she knows the work. like division was blowing her mind and i simply showed her how to make the division into multiplication to get her answer and she started to get it. alot of times they move so fast in school drilling what is going to be on the fcat that they don't stop to make sure everyone understands. i would have him checked for hormone imbalance he may have childhood bi-polar disorder, could be alot of things. def talk with his teachers, guidance councelors and ped to see whats going on

Your son is 11? Is he in the 6th grade. middle school? Maybe he is having an adjustment problem, changing classes, different classmates? Medicating him sounds like a bad idea and just too easy a solution nowadays. My daughter is 12/13, 7th grade, and when she entered middle school, she had a horrible year until she adjusted and is now back making good grades. She just needed to find her niche. At 11, he is just entering pubity, so many emotions, confusion, aggression, and questions. Some children handle it better than others. Do you have open communication and if not, maybe an outside professional could help. Best of luck and hang in there, he sounds like a great kid.

The information that you have gotten so far sounds pretty good.

However, just an idea and you may want to ask the pediatrician if is a possibility but it almost sounds like he might be depressed or having depression issues.

I could be totally off but just speaking from experience the issues that you are talking about just sound vaguely familiar.

Good luck and I think that making the appointment with his doctor is your number one best choice.

M.

You got some great advice on how to deal with his academics. My son is in 4th grade and this is the year that school is suddenly harder- he doesn't love school anymore and his grades are dropping. I hear it's common, but that doesn't make it any easier on us as parents, huh? As far as socially, I know you said he is swamped academically so I assume he is not in any extra-curricular activities-- but how about scouts? Boy scouts tend to be incredibly accepting of other kids. I have been a Cub Scouts den leader since my son was in 1st grade. Every year, we have added boys to our den, and I am always blown away by how these kids accept eachother. I have kids that are otherwise social outcasts-- kids who may be concidered "nerds" by their peers, kids who are over weight, etc. And in our den, then are all buddies and encourage eachother and get along great. If you can't do scouts, consider another extra curricular activity to help him make friends

I just recently took a study course and I learned there are three barriers that peolpe hit when learning something new that can stop their progress. One is they do not understand what they are learning about. For example if you were going to explain to your child what a bike is and how it work they would not get it if they did not have some kind of mental image of what a bike is. They need some reality of what the subject is. Second is the gradient is to high. You have to learn how to walk before you can run. Third is a misunderstood word. Have you ever been reading a book and you get to the end of the page and have no idea of what you just read. It is because you came across a word you did not fully know the meaning of or had the wrong meaning for the word. When that happens it stops you from moving forward and it is difficult to take anythign in after that. My duaghter liked school then all of a sudden every morning she would tell me she was sick and did not want to go. After taking this course on learning I could help her and we have been able to move forward and she is liking school again. She is no longer getting in trouble at school. She feels much better and now I know what to look for and can help her.

As for the ADHD doctors tend to label kids with that and just push drugs on them. I have a friend who's took her soon to a natural doctor and they took him off wheat and dairy and they saw instint changes. He is a better kids who is more focused.

I hope I have helped. If you need any more info on this let me know. Best wishes.
M.

As a kid, I used to be the same way... Doing good until about the 5th grade. Then my grades tanked. Everyone here can speak from what they see of their kid or someone else's kid. I can speak from experience. When I was at this age, I just needed someone to be patient with me and slooow down and explain the subject material to me. Maybe I did have some type of ADD, but it's how the problem is dealt with. Sometimes, all the child may need is for someone to slow down and explain. Not everybody who can't keep up needs to have medicine, maybe everybody else is just moving too fast. Also, I am a great believer in family time. You said yourself, that you and your husband are busy and you have your own business. Maybe you've let yourselves get a little too busy?? (Just wondering.) Have you gone to Parent Teacher meetings? If you have to, call his teacher or have her email you his homework assignments. Go over his homework with him and make sure he understands it. It'll a good refresher course for you, too, if you need it. I know I'll need one when my children get to that level. God bless!!

well I can only say that I am going through the same exact thing with my son and my X boyfriend had the same troubles with his same age son so its possible its a stage or age thing they are going through? Dont allow them to put him on meds, there are different techniques to use other then drugging our children.,.. my personal opinion is my son is reaching out or more attention from mommy and daddy... its a tough age they still want to be kids yet they feel they should be moving on to the next level of childhood and independence. God Bless and Best Wishes ~K.