Need Advice on Discipline

We established a reward system similar to Michelle's only with smile stickers and sad faces on a chart or calendar. I have to say, I LOVE the marble idea, though!! The point was for us to watch, recognize, and reward the efforts they DID make instead of only reacting to misbehavior. The change was AMAZING!

Within the first week we went from defiance and power struggles to thoughtful, happy, polite kids who were actively looking for ways to help and behave! Moreover, it made us more observant parents and helped us to realize how well the kids really were doing instead of only noticing when they were acting out.

This started 2 years ago when my eldest was almost 3 and continues to this day. The rewards change, but the system continues to work wonders!

Good luck!

I too am having problems with this I have three yr old stubborn little boy. At school he does his best to follow the school/classroom rules. However, like I said before he is very stubborn. His behavior ranges from temper tantrums to fights He has been mean to his younger sister and to his older. When he is confronted about his behavior he calls out "I want to be nice, I want to be nice." We have used time outs, warnings and stickers and charts for positive behavior. We review the classroom rules with him at home as well and try to enforce. I too use the same discipline as A.. Any suggestions ??

My advice on this on is simple A.. Stop talking.

It worked for me. First of all, every other year is usually a "power year" - in other words, they realize they're not what they were before (infant, toddler, etc...) so at 6 and 7, they really come into their own power as children and as people.

My advice is to stop immediately and remove them from the exercise. Simply walk up, take the bat away, and put him in time out. Say nothing. (Doesn't he already KNOW what you're going to say?)

Sit him in his time out place and tell him that time out starts when he sits quitetly. (One minute for every year of age - set the timer, that works like a charm!)

If he asks to get up, the time starts again. PERIOD. No exception.

He needs to know you MEAN IT - not that you're going to blab his ear off about safety. This is the rule, you make the choice and you suffer the consequence.

This is something that will serve your children all their lives - now and forever. It is one of the most basic and important concepts we can teach our children.

This is not necessarily about "think about what you did". (Do you remember the feelings that came up for you when your parents said that to you...? I didn't think about "what I did for one second! I thought about how much they were making me more angry....) This is simply about the concept of choice and consequences.

As my child got older, our conversations afterwards were about the consequences of drinking and driving, unprotected or premarital sex, drugs, hanging with people who made bad decisions, etc...

If he has a fit in his time out place, simply turn and tell him the time starts again.

This control issue may well be about getting attention. DON'T give it to him. Rule, choice, consequence. It's all business.

After the time out, it's then time to love him and send him on his way - it's over. But kids can't process all the bla, bla, bla we want to tell them. Their brains aren't wired for it yet.

I have so much more! But this should suffice. Good luck. And try it - it works.

I would first decide what battles you want to pick. You can't enforce/punish for every little thing. Big, scary things require big consequences-like running in the street after a ball. Petting the cat at the table should not be the same punishment. More importantly, punishment rarely works. Consequences for their actions work better. For example, if your son pets the cat at the dinner table, say, calmly and politely, "John you just petted the cat. Now your hands are dirty. Please go wash them before you eat again". The consequences of petting the cat is to wash his hands. He may refuse. Then you can say that he can't continue to eat until he does wash his hands. If he does so, take his plate away and tell him, calmly, that he can have his meal back after he finishes washing his hands. NOw, this may turn into a game for a while, initially. He may enjoy getting up to wash many times during a meal, just to annoy you. Your job is not to let it do so. Eventually he'll get tired of doing it, especially if you don't over-react to it.
I tell my kids that there are some rules we have for safety that they must follow, and if they don't there could be some severe consequences. So, for running into the street- tell your son that he can't play in the front yard for the next week because you can't trust that he won't do it again. He has to re-earn your trust. After the week is over, have him practice with you checking the street and crossing on his own when it's safe to do so. If he can't, then he can't play in the front yard until you feel like you can trust him again.
If the kids get punished for everything then it loses it's effectiveness, and the kids will think, "What does it matter, I'm going to get into trouble anyway?". Use punishment only when really necessary, and be consistent. So if one boy gets consequences for running into the street and the younger one does it the next day, make sure he gets the same punishment, so the kids will know you're serious and you mean it.
Good luck. It's a frustrating thing to deal with.
One more piece of advice-don't get into arguments with them about the consequences. Just repeat what you've said, ignoring any "it's not fair", or "you can't make me", etc. Stand your ground, be calm and reasonable. Once they've done what you've asked (i.e. washed their hands after petting the cat) thank them and continue with things as normally as possible.

Hi,
I feel your anguish. I know for sure that at times I wish my
boys would just listen too.
Its an American epidemic. Not race, class, or age.
These children require a whole new system of training. The ways we were parented and or not parented do not have a place this time on our world.
Our children are acting like royal kings and queens. But to me it all makes sense.
I advice to stop worrying so much. Stop putting an emphasis on how much or less you do now will teach them about this or that.
As long as they dont see violence in your home or on t.v. they are going to get it that there's real danger in the world.
As long as you keep trying to be the one, their only one, they will test you too.
I have been reading an article that has helped me to rethink the many ways i respond to my sons. Keepin in mind that boys, are warriors, little rough housers, they are experiementing. They are too young to bee seen as corporate exucatives wearing a suit and tie all day. Far from what we want them to be, we have to accept them for who and how they behave before we can get them to change, if we can get them to change? I hope you can get your hands on the article:

Parenting Without Punishing
Copyright 2002 by Norm Lee

I could benefit from ongoing support too, so please do not hesitate to write me back.
Thanks and Be gentle.

Dear A., Try to keep your cool ;-)

Discipline is an ongoing process when raising children and there are times when parents question their discipline tactics and methods. The most important aspect of discipline is keeping calm when handing out punishments, or when you're in a disagreement with your child. If you yell, your child yells. If you throw fits, your child throws fits. Use the tips below for staying calm while disciplining your child.

Step 1:
Make sure your child is listening when you ask him to do something. If your child is distracted with toys or television, remove the distraction, look him in the eye and tell him what you need. This helps avoid fights over chores or other tasks because you have your child's full attention.

Step 2:
Remember that children go through stages where they test boundaries and see what they can get away with. Keep calm by reminding yourself that your discipline style sets boundaries and establishes rules.

Step 3:
Leave the room if your child has pushed you over the edge. If you're screaming and losing your cool, walk into a different room and calm down. Think of ways you can handle the situation differently when you re-enter the room.

Step 4:
Count to ten, breathe deeply and then decide the best course of discipline for your child's misbehavior.

Step 5:
Respond with positive comments, even when your child screams, "I hate you!" Tell her you love her and only want what's best for her. If you don't react to insults and negative remarks with your own negative remarks, she'll lose interest and serve out whichever punishment you've given. A. I hope this works for you.

NEXT...

How to Change a Child's Poor Attitude

if your child is misbehaving, this tactic can be very effective to improve attitude and behavior.

Step 1:
Buy a poster board and set up a "sticker chart" by making multiple columns for placing stickers.
Step 2:
Give your child stickers for good behavior, setting up a goal of a certain number of stickers to equal a reward.
Step 3:
Give your child the designated reward when they reach the desired number of stickers.
Step 4:
Repeat for a new reward.

MAKE SURE YOU TELL YOUR CHILDREN HOW MUCH YOU LOVE THEM EVERYDAY. MAKE SURE YOUR HUSBAND SPENDS ENOUGH QUALITY TIME PLAYING AND DOING FUN THINGS W/ THE BOYS. PICK A DAY OR W/END FOR THE BOYS AND DAD (JUST THE BOYS AND DAD DAY) ;-)

If everything else fails ;-(

APPLY NOW!!!

Kids driving you nuts? Need harmony at home?
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Hi A.,

I think it is great to explain the reasons for the rules - "because I said so" doesn't fly for a lot of reasons. On the other hand, they are kids, and have not reached the developmental stage where they can foresee dangers. I'm the parent of a teenager, and all the experts say that teens engage in risky behaviors because they cannot "come out of themselves" enough to see the consequences. The brain is not fully developed until age 25 or so, unfortunately.

Since what you are doing isn't working, it probably means that the kids cannot predict dangers. It's just not in their consciousness - which is really normal.

I think the only thing you can do is take away more toys - not just a favorite toy, because they have many others from which to choose. You have to be much more decisive in their view, and that may mean to take away a lot more items until they are old enough or responsible enough to merit "big kid toys."

This they will understand. If they don't get the dangerous aspect of running into traffic in the street, they WILL get the idea that the ball was taken away because they chase it into the street. The bat gets put in the attic or the garage rafters because they are not old enough to use it safely. When my son was throwing things, ALL of the matchbox cars went into the attic. When he rode his bike without a helmet, the bike was hung up from the garage rafters. He could see it every day, but he couldn't get to it. I never took away books or stuffed animals or art supplies, but I did take away luxuries.

The explanations of danger are nice and well-motivated, but if they don't understand it, you are wasting your breath for now. For the next 2 months, every time they do something dangerous, you might take away the item involved AND everything else in the same category - e.g. ALL the balls, all the buiilding blocks, etc.

In my view, immediate and significant consequences make the most impact. Now my son is a teenager, and the first thing that happens if he messes up is he is grounded and loses car privileges. Works well. I am happy to say he is a responsible teen who always calls us to tell us where he is, and he makes responsible choices. He understands that consequences ensue if he doesn't adhere to our rules, whether or not he thinks they are unnecessary.

The kids may yell or give you the "I hate you" and "You're a mean mom" routine, but they will get the message. And they will be safe.

Good luck!

At 5 & 7 they certainly understand what you're saying and why you're saying it. My boys are 6 & 4 1/2 and we run a pretty strict house. The punishment depends on the severity of the behavior. For backtalk it's 10 minutes in your room for a time out. For inappropriate behavior like hitting one another it's 15 minutes in their room (keep in mind, we do not have toys in the boys rooms, just books that are read to them at night. All our the toys are in the toy room in the basement). For down right disobeying and purposely doing something that I asked not to do the tv does not go on for the rest of the day. They have special TV time during the a.m. and the p.m. that they're allowed to watch. Now the tricky part is, I'm trying to promote good behavior for both so unfortunately if one really disobeys, the other loses TV as well. This has really helped them to work together and problem solve amongst themselves.

This is what my hubby and I have done since our daughter was 3 and is now almost 6. We have a marble cup. She gets marbles for doing good. It can be from learning to say please to now it is making her bed daily. Whenever we catch her doing something right she gets a marble or if it something she does on her own she gets 2. You set the amount to what you think is right and adjust it to fit the age. We try to pay attention to the bad attaction to really try to corect it. For example we are dealing with story telling. When she tells the truth we reward it. But when we know she is lying, she gets a 3 count to tell the truth or loose a marble.

When she does something wrong, she gets a 3 count and if the behavior is not corrected then a marble is taken away. If the crime is worse or a danger, then it is 2 marbles. Have the punishment fit the crime by how many marbles are taken out.

To get started, have the kids make there own cup. They need to take ownership of it. Decorate it, put their name on it, make it their own and put it some place they can reach and know that it is there.

Tell them how it works. Good get marbles, wrong choice marbles come out. Then set goals with it. If you earn 20 then you can have a sleep over or a special treat. We use it for TV and computer. 1 marble equals ½ hour of tv/commuter, her choice for hte day, but she can only use 1 marble a day for that. Or they can save them for "bigger" rewards. Small toy, Chucky Cheese, whatever they are into.

To have success with this, they need to take the marbles out when they are told to if not then they loose another marble and then you take them out. When rewarding, hand them the marbles to put into the cup. They make noise and gets them counting too. We use larger marbles for extra special goodness and take them out when we need to if the crime fits. We count them as 2 marbles.

This has worked so well, that we use it with our daughters friends when they come over. The friend cup get marbles when friends help clean up after playing. when they get to 20 marbles our daughter gets to have a special friend time. Usually at this age it is a sleep over.

Catch them doing good and you will be amazed at the turn around. Please let me know if you have any questions about this method and I wish you luck. You can do it!!! Let me know how It goes.

M.

Hi A.,

I am a certified life coach and parent coach, and I must say that these moms have given you many useful suggestions. I am the mother of four, 3 boys and a little girl.
Parenting certainly comes with many challenges even when your babies become young adults as two of mine have. If you are armed with some tools it doesn't have to be as difficult as it is without them.
Sticking to a couple different punishments is very important. Having too many different consequences can be difficult in setting boundaries that a child will be able to accept.
Giving a child a choice for two different outcomes is very beneficial. For example, your child doesn't want to pick up their toys when they are done with them. You can say, "Ok, well either you can put your toys back in their place now that you've moved on to something else or I can put them away. If you do it then you can play with them again when you are ready to but if I do it they will be put someplace else for one week and you won't see them until then. It's up to you. Which choice do you want?" Say it in a happy voice as if it doesn't matter to you. If your child wants you to pick them up then do so and stick to the one week without them deal. The next time your child will most likely choose to pick the up himself when given the same choice. The mom who suggested the star chart was very insightful as well. Putting up a chart with your children's names at the top where they each have a column to view their progress is a great idea. If your children give you a hard time at bedtime you can offer, "Whoever goes to sleep the quietest and quickest will find two new stars on their chart in the morning. If you both go to sleep quietly then you will both earn two stars." The incentive can be a reward that you are comfortable with providing each time a child reaches 10 stars.
It can be something like 'make your own sundaes' or when one reaches 10 stars he can choose a dollar store prize. Maybe he can help you to bake chocolate chip cookies or brownies. If they both get 10 stars at the same time then they each get a prize. You can get quite creative here.
Telling your five year old not to run into the road after a ball is good advice but not easy for a five year old to follow. Keep your child out of that situation all together or when he is playing ball in the front yard you or your husband stand near the road so your child can see that you will get the ball and they are not to chase it. If you see your child running after it make sure you are close enough in their path to go physically stop them before they go after the ball. As far as the bat swinging issue, well, that's easier. With repetition from you the child will develop the good habits you want him to have. For a few days in a row whenever either child is up to bat you say, "check your space before you swing." Make sure you say it every time. After a few days of doing so hearing your voice command to remind them they will develop the habit of checking their space before they swing. Repetition can be applied to many safety skills you want to develop in your child. I still tell my children to put on their seat belts each time they get into a car. It is second nature to them but I say it anyway. Losing a star on the chart can also be a consequence of negative behavior. If your child pets the cat at dinner time after being told not to you simply say, "OK, because you disobeyed me you lose a star right now." Get up from the table and remove a star. The issue is not the petting of the cat. The issue is that your child disobeyed you. You need to remain consistent in your rules. If you're going to use the chart at home then that's all you should use if your child responds positively to the excitement of getting a prize after 10 stars. The stars themselves are not enough to please a 5 or 7 year old. The accumulation of stars equalling a reward for good behavior is. When you are out in public you need to have a consequence to show your child they have misbehaved. Telling the children before you leave that they will receive 2 more stars if they behave when you are out is a good idea. If they misbehave they do not get the stars. You can also try telling them that if they misbehave then you are going home right away. They will get one warning and then if they continue with their negative behavior you all go home. The child who did behave earns stars and the one who didn't earns 0. Be consistent and good luck to you. I could go on and on with ideas for you but then I will be writing you a book. Take care...G.

Read 1-2-3 Magic.. A great book on discipline.. It was my bible when my children were younger. They are well behaved pre adolescents now... If you read it follow it to a tee!!!! It does work!!
H.

Hi A.- I know how frustrating and challenging this can be. We are in tough times too.. I want to recommend a book called "From Difficult to Delightful in Just 30 Days" by Jacob Azerrad. It has a very positive message= can't summarize it here but hope you will have a look. Try to enlist your 7 year old to be the "leader" and set a good example for his brother. Try to notice when he does a good job- being nice to the cat, playing baseball safely, etc. And then think about consequences for the serious stuff- safety, hitting, etc. The book suggests using language always beginning iwht "We don't..." like We don't hit our brother. and if necessary have him sit out for a few minutes, close to you... and then the consequence is over. I think that's the gist. Good luck. Best, M.

I would try doing some activities and games dealing with safety and politeness. Maybe making a book together, going to the library and taking out books, cds and movies dealing with these subjects. Doing art projects together. Be sure to use lots of praise when the children make the right choices. Just a few ideas which I hope will help.

I think that the issue here is that there are really two different kinds of rules - those which are really learned behaviors (saying please and thank you, talking in a polite voice, picking up your room, etc) and those which require impulse control (not running into the street, looking before you swing, etc). A five year old, and even a seven year old to some extent, are really not good at impulse control developmentally. Perhaps the best thing is to remove them from a situation where they need it for their safety. Have them play catch in the backyard, don't let them play with the metal bat when little sister is around, etc. Explain to them that they are having a hard time being safe and that's why there are new rules. And then, playing in the front yard, playing with the metal bat, those are learned behaviors that can be reinforced ("thanks for being so safe and playing with the plastic bat when your sister's around!") or punished ("you clearly can't play outside at all if you can't remember the rule about playing in the backyard"). If you set expectations that they really can meet, then rewards and punishments should work. But if they are unable to "get" the rules in the moment developmentally, no amount of training is going to help. Good luck!

Maybe you can try like they do on Super Nanny. She makes a chart for the kids and everytime they do something good they get a star or a sticker. Have a meeting with them to make it look important and be loving but firm. This will give you the opportunity to tell them the consequences of good or bad. For a punishment, nanny only finds a floor mat or a bench a make them sit there for 5 min. and if they get up again the parents sit them back down, it doesn't matter how many times they get up. The point is following through and then after the time is over they have to say sorry to the parent and explain why they think what they did is wrong.

The only thing that I have found that works is if they are playing with the ball and are not following moms rules, take the ball away for a period of time, or the day. And put a fence up if you can. What ever they love the most can be taken away for a time period. If they have a tantrum, then they must have a time out. Or ignore the fit if you can! They need to know if they dont follow the rules there are consequences, and dont back out on what you say, or they will rule you forever! Mean what you say, and say what you mean. And always do it with love. And sometimes when you catch them doing something good, praise them, praise them, praise them! They will soon learn the difference.

I have a six year old strong willed boy who was always getting into trouble. Three things have worked for me. One, Two, Three Magic ( you can get the book at the library if you are not familiar with the process), loss of priveledge (like computer time or TV) for big offenses and rewards for good behavior. The rewards for good behavior has worked better than the other two. Positive re enforcement has been easy for me and has boosted his self confidence that he can do well everyday! We used a simple sticker chart and smiley stickers. He helped me pick out the stickers at the store and was excited from the gate about earning them. Every time (and I mean every time) he was good, turning off the lights, setting the table the first time I asked, putting on his coat the first time I asked, washing his hands without being asked, sharing with his brother, etc. he earned a sticker. When the chart was full, we offered him his choice of a reward, Chuck E Cheese outing, a trip to Friendly's for ice cream, bowling, etc. He was thrilled with himself! Now I am asking him less and less to do the things I want him to do. He is becoming more responsible and acting out less. He is more polite and respectful. There are times he still earns a time out, but the improvement is fantastic. Good luck!

Hi A.,
I understand your concern!
I can't offer a discipline system, but just wanted to say that maybe you should rethink going to bed /early bedtime as punishment. There may be bedtime issues laster on if they are made it see bedtime as a punishment, and not welcome relaxation.
Good luck! and don't give up.

Every kid is different so I don't know if this will work for you. For my daughter who is 8 (we started this when she was 7) we withhold her "currency". Perhaps you've heard of this. We found that she loves computer games immensely, so that is what is taken from her should she misbehave. It only works because she loves the computer so much. We've taken other things away and it hasn't been all that effective. I sometimes joke that you have to get them hooked on something so that you can use it as currency. I'd much rather her behave because she knows it's the right thing to do, but I have just had to go with what works. I hope this helps.

E.

Try role-playing the boundries of where they need to stop if the ball rolls away and where to stand and check if any one is to close befor swinging the bat, kis learn better by being shown not just told.

Hi A.,

Something that worked for my daughters when they were little was to put them in time out on the bottom stair to think about what they'd done, generally following the one-minute-per-year-in-age suggestion (set a timer, mine's on the microwave). When their time was up, I would sit with them on the stairs and ask them for an apology for their behavior. Once they said they were sorry, I'd ask them what they were sorry for to be sure they truly understood what they did wrong. If they could articulate what they did wrong, I'd ask why it was wrong. This way, it's not just me always telling them what to do, which eventually gets tuned out. When it comes from them, it really seems to sink in better.

Likewise, when we're going out in public, I'll say I expect good behavior in the store, restaurant, etc. Then I'll ask, "And what makes for good behavior?" Then they'll tell me things like no running, using an indoor voice, etc. I figure if they own it, the'll adhere to it better.

Good luck!

You might try "The power of positive parenting : a wonderful way to raise children" by Glenn Latham. Multiple people with older children (4-10 years old) have told me that book is amazing - and based on the great behavior of their kids I believe it. It should be at your local library. With my toddler, I've found the "Love and Logic Magic for Early Childhood" book by Fay & Fay really helpful.

Good luck, I hope you find something that works!

A...my husband & I have learned a lot from "Supernanny" show. Her books are also very helpful. Her techniques are effective. She believes in timeouts and the naughty spot..depending on how old the child is.

Something worth looking into.....

Good luck!

Have you tried reading the "Back Talk" book. If you use it right, it works wonders on kids of all ages. I know your kids aren't being fresh to you, but they are not listening to your rules, which is by this books definition, a form of back talk. Pretty much it's about immediate consequences and sticking to your guns. Kids don't like it at first and make it hard for you to follow through, but be strong. After about three times, your kids will get it, and be much better behaved.