Chore System

Seems to me like a chore chart (or similar) is just another chore, FOR YOU.
It sucks but it's motherhood.
Kids (and many husbands) just don't care or think about housework, and it continues well into their teens.
I decided long ago to choose my battles. I insist they clean up after themselves in the common areas of the house (picking up toys, taking dishes to the sink, etc.) but as far as their bedrooms, how they make their beds (or not) and how they deal with their dirty/clean clothes, I just keep their bedroom doors closed and enjoy the rest of my home, which stays pretty clean and tidy!

I find a combination of carrots and sticks works best.

For example, at bedtime if they are not ready for bed (in jammies and teeth brushed without reminders) at 9:00, then there is no bedtime story. But if they do it really fast, then they can get a bonus 10 minute tv show before storytime.

Or, I will tell them that we can go to the playground when their toys are picked up. And the faster they pick them up, the more time we have there. And if they don't pick them up, I pick them up into a bag and they go into time out until they are earned back.

I do think at this age it is reasonable to have to tell them once - hey guys its bedtime, or kids its time to pick up. They are not going to independently notice that their room is a mess. But you shouldn't have to nag.

I have a 20yr old daughter and I never set up charts.

She learned the behavior that you out your dishes in the sink or dishwasher after a meal or snack. Clean up toys befits you go to bed and choose clothes for the next day.

She practiced with me from a young age and just adapted to do what we did as far as basic pick up and cleaning up after ourselves.

Granted, there was a point as a teen I just closed her door because it wasn't a battle I chose to fight. However... She's in her ( our) own condo now and I've not been over once without it not being spotless!!

They learn by watching you and joining you with chores. I didn't make it a huge deal or list that could be intimidating.

My approach is slightly different.

Bed time - if you want a story, you need to be in pajamas, cleaned up and ready for bed. Or we get ready for bed early, and the incentive is to play a board game (might mean they are dressed for bed super early, but I get tired in the evenings, and this ensures everyone has everything done).

I do the same with cleaning up - if you want your friends over, or to go out - not until that room is tidy.

Also - we do stuff together as much as possible. Two kids folding laundry and gabbing is more fun that one kid. Same with cleaning the van, or setting the table. I tend to let them help each other (or help me). When they were little, they helped me with everything - it meant half done jobs and folding that created more wrinkles than if I'd balled them up myself, but it's just part of our lives now - they have to help out.

I don't pay them for it. I pay my eldest to babysit - for his phone. But for living here, nope. They have to do extra for that - like yard work, etc.

My kids are in sports and activities and have friends over, but if you say they can't go to that stuff until stuff is looked after ... they can be pretty quick about it. As for teeth and that stuff - I still have to bug them. My son once went a week without soap in his shower, before I noticed. I asked how he got clean all week and he said he'd used shampoo. They are kind of stunned. I don't think hygiene (teeth, picking up, etc.) comes naturally. I still remind my teenagers.

Good luck :)

Sounds like this has been a frustration for a while, and everyone's into some bad habits. They don't do it because you'll keep nagging them, you know? There are no real consequences for NOT doing it. Having a newborn has given you much more work and much less patience, understandably.

I'm a believer in choosing your battles. I also think kids need some serious, unschedule down time. If you have a 5 and a 7 year old who have school as well as a lot of after-school activities, and they have dinner and homework AND chores, you've got kids who are ONLY used to being told that X has to be done right now. And you're lamenting that you don't have much time together as it is. Maybe you should consider cutting back some scheduled after school activities. We only allowed 2 a week at this age. Otherwise, it was playtime with kids in the neighborhood or a bike ride with Mom.

I think you have to be very careful with a chore chart - it becomes another administrative task for YOU. I also think it's unrealistic to suddenly jump from "not much" being done to "toys, beds, plates, clothes, pets, washing machine, table." I also think paying them is a slippery slope - yes, it gives them spending money and you don't always have to pony up cash for this and that, BUT what if they decide they don't need or want the cash? Then what are you going to do? Kids this age don't have a big use for money, so it's not the best incentive.

You may have done some of this already, so forgive me if I'm repeating what you don't need:
1) Define "put away toys" - provide storage bins or a toy chest, and label them. If your 5 year old is a very early reader, use photos or the front of the original box taped to the bins. Legos in 1, little cars in another, etc. That way they can just toss things in but still have them semi-organized. We used some vertical dividers on a bookshelf to help keep books upright - kids can have trouble putting them away if everything falls over every time they reach to put another one away. A storage hammock was great for stuffed animals. If they have sports equipment, we found that a sports rack in the garage was a lifesaver. There were places to hang bats & gloves, some stretchy nets to corral basketballs and soccer balls, a rack on the bottom for roller blades and cleats, etc. It helps if everything has a place to go so they don't have to think about it.
2) Set a priority list. What's the MOST IMPORTANT thing right now for you to be sane? Maybe it's bedtime. Toothbrushing is non-negotiable, so start there. Have a reward for getting it done - calm story time or extra 15 minutes before lights out. They screw around, the lose out. Put a chart with pictures in the bathroom - some kids look at the words and zone out - but a photo of a toothbrush, a flosser, and a hamper might be better. For now, give up on making beds or other things you can let slide. Those are your goals, but you can't have a list that overwhelming. You want a system that is master-able by them so they can be successful.
3) Take away all distractions if they don't comply. Whatever they are doing when they are rolling their eyes at you - that thing goes in a carton into the attic. Hot Wheels, puzzles, TV remote (yes, really) - it goes away. Don't argue or allow the drama. Just walk away.
4) After one week of compliance, add a bonus. Then add a chore. Maybe it's dirty clothes - put a hamper or laundry basket in each kid's closet. They do it for a week, they get a reward (movie, ice cream date, etc.). Next time, go 2 weeks before you add a chore. Make these SMALL increments.
5) Whatever they want, they'll get it sooner under the "Many hands make light work" philosophy. And let them miss something, be late for something, go to school without homework once - it's fine. Arrange to NOT have time to pick up X at the grocery store for their lunches or take them to Y fun place - because you had to sort the dirty clothes and pick up toys. Oh dear, so sorry boys. If they have to go to school in pajamas and change in the car, they'll only do it once. After that, they'll be ready on time.
6) Make a game out of chores with everyone cooperating. What needs to be done to set the table? Who can do what? Can everyone sort laundry together? Use those times to hear about their day and discuss what's up for tomorrow. Make a game out of looking around and seeing what's out of place, or what needs to be added to the kitchen table for dinner.
7) The tension is coming from your frustration and their knowledge that they can sit there and turn it into an argument. Break that cycle. Sit down. Let stuff not get done. Relax your standards a little bit. (Maybe bed making isn't critical - you're not giving tours of the private areas of the house, after all. Shut the doors.) But otherwise if you don't have time to do things for them, just let them know that you realize it's not important for them to go to the park or to karate because the small things that have to be done first weren't done.
8) Use a chart in a few areas - by the door if you need a backpack check list for school, in the bathroom for "ready for bed" steps - but don't get into sticker charts or paying them for things they should be doing as responsible family members. The message is, they will GET much more if they DO much more.

Good luck - just have reasonable expectations for this age - you have a long way to go. But you can turn this around and then your newborn will be raised seeing stuff get done on behalf of the entire family.

Bless. My daughters are 10 and 12, and my younger still complains about her chores. Kids are inherently lazy. It is what it is. The only thing a chore chart gets you is one more thing to stay on top of, because believe me, a chart with stickers on it is not enough of a motivation for 5 and 7 year olds to do chores without complaining. You're still going to have to remind and nag.

The ONLY way I've been able to get my 12 year old into cheerful compliance with her chores is that she has an activity she REALLY loves (ballet). I've told her that since it is a significant investment of my time (6 days per week, 4 hours per day at the ballet studio) and money (you don't even want to know - tuition is hideous), if she chooses to flake out on her chores, I will choose to flake out on driving her to the ballet studio. One time of not getting to go to ballet was really all it took for her to see the error of her ways, and now she does the family's laundry without being asked, as well as vacuuming, loading the dishwasher, etc. Basically, she sees things that need doing, and she does them before I ask. (And I make sure to notice that she has done them, and thank her.)

My younger daughter doesn't love anything nearly as much as my older one does, so we are still in a place of, "Oh, I see you left all your toys sitting out on your bedroom floor. I'll be taking those away now." Which will generally get her to remember to clean her room for a good 3 weeks, and then she backslides.

It's a work in progress.

My kids are 12 and 15 and can read. We have a chore chart that hangs on the fridge and NEVER changes. It switches every other week so they know exactly what to do. I still on a DAILY basis have to say, "daughter, don't forget the dishes", "son, don't forget the trash". Every.single.day.it.never.changes. LOL

I think the key is to be consistent. My kids have to do what is on their chore chart BEFORE they do anything fun. "Ideally" they are supposed to come home from school, grab a snack, look on the fridge to see what their daily chore is, do it without us asking/reminding and without them complaining. That rarely happens. I have to remind them. But it's ok. The next step to that is that I will NOT remind them again. If they say, ok, I'll do it later...and they 'forget', then the next day they lose their phone and tablet. So they have gotten better at getting it done on their own or when I remind them I don't have to remind them again cuz they don't want to lose their stuff.

So yes, you will have to remind them but I think the key is to get them to do what you tell them to do the first time. If you can do that while they are young, you wont have the problems I do with mine (saying they will then they don't) when they are older. Good luck.

My parents came up with something called the gopher. We switched every month but maybe switch once a week. Whoever is the gopher for the week has to take out the garbage, set the table, and empty the dish washer; on top of making your bed, cleaning up toys. When we got older, the gopher got to sit up front in the car, that eliminates fighting there.

i dunno. i never really figured this one out. my kids were so much like yours, not ugly about it, just pretty unwilling to do much without that reminder. and if i was in a grim mindset and pulled privileges for non-compliance-without-reminders they were really sad about it. but it didn't seem to help their memories much. the chores still needed reminders, and everyone was glum.
but then i never figured out how to be cheerful in the face of being the constant nag either. i found it maddening that nothing got done without prompts, but my choices seemed to be getting annoyed about reminders or getting REALLY annoyed at nothing being done.
let it be a challenge to you.
:/ khairete
S.

Our son has been helping since he was 4 or 5 yrs old.
But JUST NOW at 16 he's beginning to do things without being reminded.
Don't expect them to behave as if they were older than they are.
You've got a lot of years of reminding left - it's what comes with being a parent.
It does get better eventually but you have to be REALLY patient!

My boys are good about doing what needs to be done, and they were when they were young, too. My students are good about it, too. I think it helps if they understand how it helps them to do things. Make it relevant to them.

For example, explain to them that if they get ready for bed by doing x, y, z every night right when they get home without having to be nagged, then everyone will have some free time to relax before bed. If each person remembers to put away their dishes after dinner, then Mom and Dad will have time to read stories or play for a bit with you. If you get your homework done and put back in your backpack after school, then you will have time to watch TV after dinner. These are all choices that your kids can make for themselves, and if they make the right choices they will see that their lives (and yours) will be easier.

These things seem obvious to us, but sometimes they need to be spelled out to kids. Once they see the benefit they are usually more willing to get into the habit.

Give them checklists, then all you need to ask is "did you finish your list?"

First of all, don't expect so much.
They are still little. It will get better soon, though!
Secondly, only assign a couple of things that are age appropriate & the
younger one should have a bit less taxing items.
Third, a few things should be expected (put away your toys, pick up your
socks, put your shoes by the front door not in middle of room etc.).

We help our young ones get ready for bed. It's all at once & it isn't a fight.
We get the pajamas out for the 5 yr old, have the get dressed if they can
then all at once we pee, floss w/floss picks, brush our teeth then go into
their rooms for either a goodnight story or tuck in bed/kisses etc.

We used to have a problem w/the oldest putting clothes into the hamper so
for awhile it was kept in the bathroom to make it easy!! Undress for bath &
drop into laundry hamper that is right there in bathroom.

Chore charts work better for older kids (child development) but you can
try elementary ones for this age just make them basic & w/only 3 things for
the five yr old & 7 things for the older child.

The things we "expect" our not too overly loaded & age appropriate. For
example for the 5 yr old (put toys away, put your shoes & backpack by the
front door, take silverwear & napkins to the table).
For the 7 yr old (make your bed, fold the towels, set the table...that's it..not
a million more things. Add a thing or two but not 20 items just yet).

These things are expected. They can complete them because we don't over
exert or expect too much.

Then things to earn extra money? Dust, 7 yr old can help dad collect garbage from the cans in the rooms to help take out to the big trash can, both can help get recycling together, help wash the cars, help mom unload the dishwasher (the youngest gets the plastic cups & tupperware so he doesn't break them), help mom shovel dog poop in order for mom to mow,
sweep, vacuum.

With bedtime routine, I make sure if we have after school sports or activites that they get a few mins of downtime w/the family to sit & watch 20 mins of tv & talk. Then I make their bedtiime routine all together in the last 15 mins before bed w/tuck in time & kisses. You could add reading a bedtime story here but we do ours before bed out in the living room.

Remember to make things age appropriate especially your expectations.
Help facilitate like a reminder that's it's time to get your backpacks ready & by the front door etc.
Separate things that are expected (caution, do not overload here, keep in mind they are kids & their ages) & things that are "extra" in order to earn money & teach the value of work/save/spend. (It's much harder to spend hard earned money.) ;)

You can have the 7 yr old be in charge of feeding the pet & the 5 yr old can help. However, I always double check there's food/water in the bowl so poochie doesn't go hungry/thirsty. This has come in handy several times. ;)
Generally they are pretty good.

Remember to make your list for the 5 yr old shorter.

They help us set the table. I take breakables to the actual table for them.

What seems to work with kids is having a few age related expectations then having some extra duties to earn money to have just for them to spend.
Btw, we take birthday money in cards to the bank. We use the chore/earn money system for some extra cash to spend on an inepensive toy so they can see how hard it is to earn money for things they want. Then they realize why mom & dad need to budget their money, allocate it & make it last. Imperative lessons for the future.

I didn't fret over eye rolls and groans. As long as she did what she was supposed to do, I didn't care if she bitched and moaned the whole time. She had to do the work, she didn't have to pretend to be happy about it.
And she didn't get paid to put away her own laundry, pick up her own toys, or brush her own teeth.

At five and seven, daily reminders are still needed.

If you don't want to be the chore-minder, make a checklist and post.
Make the lsits short and in the rooms where the chores take place.

On the bedroom door:
Make bed.
Take dirty laundry to laundry room.
Put toys in toy box
Hang up jackets, etc.

In the bathroom:
Shower
PJ's
Floss and brush teeth
Wipe toothpaste out of sink, etc.

You are making them sound like they're going to be doing way too much. Give them each one daily chore, then one twice per week chore, 1 chore that's something once per week. That's enough chores and they should be helping chores like "It's time to help daddy gather the trash cans and get them out for the trash man". "It's time to scoop the litter box 5 year old and it's time for 7 year old to feed and water the cats". "It's time to help momma load the dishwasher. You put the dishes on the bottom rack and I'll do the top rack". "It's time to put the dishes away from the dishwasher, get those hands washed. You put the dishes away from the bottom rack and I'll do the glasses on the top rack."

Chores where they are helping and not completely responsible for start to finish.

Put a list on the bedroom/bathroom door and it should show pictures of:

Brushing teeth
Going to the bathroom
Washing hands
Changing to jammies
Turning the covers down
Saying prayers
Reading a story
and anything else you like for them to do in bedtime routine

When they're older and have done the helper chores successfully you can increase their responsibility. Such as putting all the dishes in the dishwasher. You can have the weekly or monthly schedule posted on the inside of a cabinet in the kitchen so they can see a written list.

It's very helpful for them to do the chores with someone so they can do that chore like that someone. That means if you want the chore done a certain way but dad is an idiot at it then you do not want dad teaching them how to do it.

We did a picture chart for routines when the kids were that age. It worked really well. I still had to ask if they did everything on their bedtime routine, and help with brushing teeth and keeping them from getting too worked up right before bedtime (they still think it's sibling playtime and run around upstairs time when I announce it's bedtime), but the pictures really helped them to look ahead instead of having me tell them what to do. The small daily chores were built into the chart for morning, afternoon and evening routines. Make bed, pick up toys, etc.