We just bought a new house and it is slowly turning into the 2008 version of the Money Pit. Some things showed up on the inspection - others did not. For the most part, we are just laughing it off and trying not to stress out. But, we are trying to pick and choose where to spend our money since there are SO MANY things to do! We knew the water heater was on it's last leg - but did not find this frustrating until we timed how long it takes for water to get hot - nearly 60 seconds. My husband and I are debating on tankless v. standard. I would like the tankless now. My husband suggests we get a standard one now, with the intent to replace it in 3 - 5 years with a tankless. We see each other's points, and now are not sure which way to go. Thoughts?
First, I want to say THANKS! to all of the M.'s and their responses, feedback and advice. My husband and I read through them all and consulted with a few plumbers. Our house is too old to do a waterless without a major plumbing overhaul. We have so many other projects that take priority, that we decided to pass on that route. Also, we had a stroke of luck! One of my husband's contractor clients had an "extra" GE 50 gallon water heater that he needed to get rid of. He called my husband to see if we knew of anyone who needed it. We took it, of course! (I think the big guy upstairs decided to cut us a break). We also added the recirculating system suggested by many of you. We found a great handyman to install all of it. We are very pleased with the outcome. We timed it - warm water in 4 seconds; hot in 10 seconds!
Thanks again!
http://www.toolbase.org/pdf/fieldevaluations/brighton_plu...
http://www.toolbase.org/Field-Evaluations/Brighton-Constr...
above are two links of an actual field research project on PEX vs Copper.
Here's info from the website Ideal Bite:
*Whenever you turn on the hot-water tap, water instantly flows into the on-demand heater, delivering steamy-hot H2O to the entire house.
*Less gross domestic production of CO2. You're decreasing emissions; on-demand water heaters use 45%-60% less energy than standard models.
*You'll recoup the initial costs in about 10 years, and over 20 years an average household can expect to save up to $1,800 by making the switch.
Try these websites:
http://www.takagi.com/?p=compare_products.php&page_id=50 - top-of-the-line tankless water heater company that has models that can heat up to 5 gal per min.
http://www.greenhomeguide.com/index.php/knowhow/entry/734... - great rundown of what to look for when buying a tankless water heater.
I feel for you....we built our house in 2000 and it has been a money pit The builders put such lousy quality in homes now and they don't care. We have practically upgraded everything in this house. In our case, this was going to be a basement home (yes they exist in TX) and then the builder chose not to build a basement, which was fine with us. Therefore, the city was EXTREMELY picky on the foundation and quality of foundation. The builder spent a ton more $$ than expected on our foundation and exterior therefore he cut quality on the inside. Thankfully, the places where quality was cut are things we can upgrade. We know we have a great foundation!
We built our house in 2000 and had the builder quality water heaters that are CRAP. Both of our heaters were in the verge of completely being out of order, it was a time bomb waiting to happen.
We thought long and hard about the tankless but in the end, we went with high quality water heaters. Yes, it still takes 60 seconds or so for the water to heat in the back far corner of the house but I like that better than not knowing enough about the tankless. We feel like the tankless is a great concept but not quite there yet as far as being the best source for us.
We went with Classic Plumbing in Plano and upgraded what we had (CRAP) to 2 new Bradford White units. We spent about $1700 and we are very pleased with our decision. The warranty is great on these units.
Yes, I am sure you can find something cheaper. We are believers in you get what you pay for and Classic was not the cheapest quote we got BUT we know that they will stand by their product and we got quality. We also know that Classic is a reputable business and not some fly by nighter in business for a short time and no where to be found you if you need them.
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Have you flushed your hot water heater recently? I know at our old home when we had problems (it was an old heater) flushing it would remove sediments and give more room for the water to heat. You can google for instructions!
We have a recirculating pump from Costco and it is amazing! Our heaters are up in our attic, and it was taking 3-5 minutes (!!!) to get hot water downstairs in the kitchen and utility room. Once we installed that, we have hot water almost instantly. In fact, we often have to wait a short time to get cold water. You install a component on the water source farthest from the heater. There's a slight trickle of hot water that goes through the pipes at all times, keeping the water in the pipes warm, so you don't have to flush all the cold water out before getting to the hot water. It's been a lifesaver, and at $200, it's a good thing to try before you make the big commitment to tankless. Hubby installed it himself in about 3-4 hours, but he's a pretty handy guy.
Not having to worry that I will run out of hot water when we have guests is nice. For me we have a spa garden tub and there were times at my old house when the hot water would run out before filled - not here, keep adding hot as long as you want. Plus they are just so much smaller, the extra room inthe garage was nice.
We installed a Takagi tankless heater 2 years ago and love it. It takes a little while for the hot water to travel to it's destination, but I'm not sure it's any longer than with a conventional water heater. I was told that the water heater requires 5 seconds of water flow from the hot tap to turn on, then 5 seconds to heat the water on demand, then however long it takes to travel to it's destination. So that may not solve your problem. If it's a specific sink that you want to be hot quickly, I think you can buy small tankless water heaters for under that sink.
We live in an older home (built in 1947) and luckily all of our pipes were the right size to connect to the water heater.
It's definitely worth looking into.
Amy-
Don't forget to take in to account that the farther away from the tankless water heater you are the longer it will take for the existing water in the line to clear. It may take just as long for hot water to reach your hand! The plus of a TWH is that you can run the dishwasher, washing machine and take a shower at the same time and not run out of water. I guess you just have to figure out what your priority is before buying. If you are not worried about running out of hot water, I'd go with a traditional one and save some money.
-K.
I have read what other posters have said about additional plumbing costs etc. Have you considered getting the traditional water heater & installing a hot water recirculating system? I've seen these at Costco.com at under $200 and I'm sure they're available at the usual box stores. We've been considering this option for our house. We bought it 3 months ago and although it's not quite a money pit yet, but we have issues that were not on inspection either. Our water heater was installed just prior to sale, but it still takes a while for hot water upstairs.
Anyway, just thought you might want an alternative.
K.
Mom to 3 ages 6,5 & 3
i don't know much about the tankless, but we just stayed at my aunt's brand new million dollar home (about 5000 sq ft) and they have one tankless water heater and it was amazing how everyone could shower, she ran the clothes washer and diswasher... and the water was still hot. i thought that was pretty cool. good luck!
Unless you are a "Green" energy person, it's not worth to install the TWH. I have done calculation myself and the payback will be more than 20 years. That's assuming you have gas heater now, not electric heaters. Gas piping installation and vent is the biggest cost, not heater itself, and it will have to be done with skilled/license contractor. If you already have the gas heater, they will only have to upsize the piping size, but if you only have the electric heater, they will have to do everything from scratch and it can get REALLY expansive. Plus, as others mentioned, unless you redo the pluming, it will probably be same amount of time for you to get hot water in some areas.
The only time it's worth to consider is when building a brand new house.
For what it's worth--
We just discussed tankless water heaters with a friend of ours last week. They had a TWH installed last year, and love it; however, they had this caveat:
Sometimes, you have to re-work your plumbing in order to make the TWH work for your house. Unfortunately, plumbing isn't really especially interesting to me and as the friend and my husband got into the in-depth of why the plumbing needs to be re-worked because of the TWH, my mind wandered considerably, so I can't really tell you the why of it. My head came back to the conversation long enough to hear that it would have doubled the cost of the TWH to have had to re-work the plumbing, and apparently it's fairly common to have to do so. This friend is the home repair and upgrade guru, and he's a straight-up kind of guy, so I tend to believe what he says.
If anybody's heard (or paid attention to) the details of the plumbing issues, chime in!
We looked into this when we bought our house. The problem was that tankless water heaters need to have different plumbing lines than the regular ones. The cost for the heaters was ok but the cost for replumbing the whole house to put them in was way too high for our budget. Get somne estimates from reputable companies and make sure ALL the costs are included.
Here's some more information, if you're interested. I have had a Takagi tankless water heater for 5 years now, and I love it. Yes, it takes a while for the hot water to actually get through the pipes (since I'm a conservation nut, I try and keep empty jugs under the sink, fill the kettle, fill a pitcher for the fridge, etc., so I don't waste too much water), but once it's there, it is there. You don't run out. We replaced two of the old-style water heaters in our house because our water pressure is very high and the valves kept blowing out. That's not a problem with the tankless.
From a child safety standpoint, the temperature settings are very accurate. The childproofer who came out to check our house for us could not believe that every single faucet and bathtub he tested in our house produced hot water at exactly 122 degrees. That is what we had the heater set on, and that was how the water came out upstairs and downstairs. He said he had never seen that anywhere else.
I haven't read the other responses yet but we do have one. We replaced our regular water heater with a tankless one about 2 years ago.
We would do it again because we've had water issues with this house from the beginning and choose not to have water over our bedroom ceiling (in the second floor of the house). When our water heater went out (while we had company) it poured through our vents into our bedroom on the first floor. With our tankless it still takes forever to get the water heated when we shower, bathe, use the kitchen sink, etc. That drives me crazy since I feel like we are wasting so much water, just waiting and waiting. My husband defends this by saying it takes just as long to make it through the pipes to our shower, sink, bathroom sink, etc. as it did before. That doesn't completely make sense to me since we finally get hot water in one bathroom sink faucet and it takes a while for the sink three feet away to get hot??? Who knows? I'll have to read the other responses to see if it's just us or if this is common.
If you have the funds for a tankless now, go tankless.
Be careful before making the decision to go tankless... They take more power to run, which means you might need to have electrical work done and that gets even more expensive... and if you live in the country and have a well instead of city water, you may need a new filter system also. My parents just made the switch and it's been a little hectic.
A buyer of mine wanted to install a tankless water heater in the home she was purchasing. When she had the home inspection, we asked the inspector about it.
The tankless system requires a different diameter of pipe to work effectively. Most homes are not built with this diameter of pipe, so it would add cost to the project to run new piping.
I'd still do it if I could swing the cost. It is actually "on demand" hot water. It would free up the closet where our gas water heater is set up for other uses. My master bath would no longer get the radiant heat from the tank. No tank to leak and flood the house (as happened to us 6 or 7 years ago when our water heater failed). No pilot light to worry about going out. No worry about carbon monoxide if the vent gets knocked out of alignment or stopped out.
Yes, however it is a lot more money upfront to purchase because they are more expensive than a regular hot water heater. It is a point of use water heater. Meaning that it only activates when you are turning on the hot water. They are a whole lot more energy efficient. You'll be saving money on your monthly utility bills. This is from my husband, who is an Architect.
Check with a professional installer before you decide. We were told by sales clerks (Lowe's) and even the CSRs at Bosch that we needed to run a larger line (we have propane). My husband called an installer who said that all you need to do is install a regulator. He then called Bosch again (and this time he asked to speak to a technician), who confirmed this was correct. Sales clerks and CSRs don't have the information you need to make an informed decision. We almost gave up on the idea because of bad information.
I LOVE having ours! It has gone out a few times, but they have sent a replacement for free. Love always having hot water!
Just built w/tankless....love it. Saves lots of money plus more room to store 'stuff' in that closet!!!
Just spent a few days with my family in Los Angeles. They just spent about $400K in additions and improvements to their 1950s home. (in LA things are so very expensive) They do have a tankless water heater. They said the only draw back was that it takes the hot water so long to get there so they have a bucket in the showers and near their sink to catch the cold water to water plants, etc. I took 2 showers there and both times I was the "first" one of the day and it took a lot less time than at my house! So, I thought I should follow their lead and start catching my water! (at least some of the time)
I can't see myself driving a vegetable oil car or installing solar panels at this point :o)
Go tankless!
It's a little more expensive, but soon enough it will pay off
a) It will heat water only when needed
b) you'll never run out of hot water once you get it hot, and this will depend on shower's location too (only a few minutes)
c) It heats the water as soon as you turn on your handle and water flows through the aparatus only
d) you'd never have to worry about water-heater floods
We're very happy we got one and we recommend it to you!
