5 YO Out of Control at Pre-School

You got 1 nasty response and the rest point out honest issues and offer suggestions. You daughter sounds like she has a lot of anxiety and rage. Hopefully you will be more open to hearing what the therapist says than you are to moms on this site/

You asked in your other thread why now.

It has been escalating in the past two months, that says to me we are speaking of behaviors that were already there but under control.

You say recently you got furniture and your ex had some loss that they had to come live with you.

I think you have two things kicking here, first as the school year progresses kids get bored with being good. There is a natural escalation of negative behavior even in the most well behaved kids. The second is mom wants me dad doesn't. After the divorce dad wanted me mom didn't. Really small kids think in such black and white terms. Who is going to want me next week.

So add to that school the poor thing doesn't know where she belongs or who wants her. When kids want to feel secure they act bad. Crazy I know, but if you still love them in the end they know you love them.

Then you have the baby and unknown. Apparently complications but to your daughter you are pushing her away. She wants to spend the day with you and doesn't understand why she can't.

So take a step back, look at yourself. What makes you feel secure when you feel like the world is against you, when you can't find your footing. Take that feeling and help her. All I see here is a very insecure little girl who pretty much wants someone to make her feel like it will all be okay.

I am sorry you feel you are getting some unkind posts in response to your honest posting here. Most posts seem direct and thoughtful to me though one is very judgmental. Please ignore it but also please be open to what folks are saying if it's constructive, even if it's not friendly.

You are doing many of the right things already -- getting your little girl evaluated by professionals and especially seeking the help of the child therapist you mention. This will be expensive and may need to go on for quite some time to get your girl through the changes, the instability and especially the new baby, but it will be worth every cent. Soon she will be in kindergarten and then elementary school, and teachers will not have time or the ability to work with her nearly as much as she would need, so it is good that you are working on this immediately. If you need to have her slow down her life and do another year of preschool rather than starting K, consider that. The therapist and doctors will be the best ones to advise you there.

Be aware that she may act out toward the baby once the baby arrives. Three months likely will not be nearly enough time for her to work on her issues, so you may have to give thought to protecting the baby for a while from your daughter's anger and quite possibly her hitting the baby -- I am not saying your daugther is bad, just that she already has shown that she takes out her upset and frustration by hitting, and the baby will be a potential target for her because the baby is going to take you away from her. That may not be how you will see it but it is how your child will see things. Just be very prepared. Ask the therapist how to deal with that possibility.

Remember too that once there is a newborn, everything in the world tends to disappear into the exhaustion and all-consuming nature of having a new baby -- it's harder to keep appointments, etc. when there is a tiny infant. Arrange in advance all your daughter's therapy appointments. Be sure your boyfriend is on board and has scheduled time to take her to those appointments, or to take care of the baby while you take her (so there is no last-minute "We just can't make it today.") Pay for them in advance or on a payment plan to let you space out the expense. But have it all lined up before the baby arrives or the exhaustion of having an infant could mean your daughter's therapy and evaluations start to slide, despite your best intentions.

I think your post shows that you already are very aware of all the issues -- the back and forth between different homes, the lack until recently of a regular place to call her own at your house, the new baby, etc. And though she has known your boyfriend quite a while, remember that your ex is very present in her life and she may be confused about which man she is really supposed to give priority to -- the boyfriend who treats her better or the official dad who, though often not "there for her," is still daddy. Again it's a matter of seeing things through her eyes, rather than as the adult.

You are showing some great self-awareness and you are taking proactive steps -- keep on going and do whatever you must to get her professional help for as long as she needs it, which may be a while. Don't try to handle this on your own. Don't put her into any new or different situations if at all possible (like kindergarten, if she is not emotionally ready).

I'm sorry you got a catty response (and it was definitely catty- come on Casey, not nice). Some people can't see past the nose on their face to the fact that living situations other than ideal are sometimes necessary as a means to getting to a BETTER place. There will always be judgments associated with that. Don't pay it any mind.

J., you sound like a very caring and attentive mother. I see from your post that you have taken a LOT of steps in getting your daughter the attention she deserves for these issues. I think you are on the right track. Let some of this work its way out. With the therapist, etc., you will find some answers and hopefully with that, some behavior modification for your little girl.

I do get overwhelmed with life changes, and I'm 29. I can't imagine what a preschooler feels when faced with SO MUCH. Changes at home, a divorce, a new baby. Wow. Spend some one-on-one time with her and make sure you are working towards a more stable environment for her. I know that you are, and you will get there, and then you will wonder where the time went and how you got through it all! With a caring mother willing to take the steps, I'm sure you're little girl will be fine. Just make sure she knows that she is the priority. Don't let finances or relationships of ANY sort come between you and your little girl. You don't have to have STUFF to give your daughter a stable environment. Time with you is all she needs.

Keep on keeping on, and things will be fine.

And I hope you continue to visit mamapedia.

I mean this to be honest, not rude. Your daughter's problem is her home life. I feel that should be obvious. She is under a lot of stress with zero routine. She doesn't know what is going on. That is tons to deal with in a 2 year time period.

I would suggest you develop and stick to a routine so that the children know where they will be everyday. I would stick with a therapist so your daughter has an outlet for her feelings. I would also work closely with her so that you can parent your daughter the best way for her.

Wow, lots going on here!
First of all, I'm glad the school is working with you, and I'm glad you are seeking out therapy for your daughter, both very positive things.
I imagine she is overwhelmed with all the changes going on in her life, divorce, moving, going back and forth between two homes, mom's new boyfriend and now mom's new baby. That is a LOT for her to process and come to terms with :(
And what do you mean your ex accidentally destroyed much of his home? That sounds pretty traumatic as well!
My only advice is to try to keep her routine as calm and consistent as possible. And don't spend too much time talking about the new baby as that can actually cause her MORE stress. Spend as much time as you can with her, one on one, and talk about things. Don't grill her with questions, just sit down and color or do a puzzle together. That will help her relax and she may open up a little. This is the kind of thing the therapist will likely do as well.

I'm no professional just another parent like you but based upon what I've read it sounds as if your child is having issues with your divorce, and the constant transitions in her own life. When did the divorce happen? What huge life events, or any change of life events were going on when the behavior escalated? It sounds as if your daughter is seeking safety, predictability and routine. There is a lot going on in your life, in your exes life and now in your new life with your boyfriend. Imagine how that looks to a 5 year old? It is overwhelming. Definitely try to work as a team with all adult involved in your children's lives and try to get a stable, set, routine and life set up for these children.

Your daughter is traumatized,.

It is good you are seeking help. She is lost, frightened, confused and angry.

You and I as adults can handle this, but for a young child.. She does not have this capacity to understand how to express all of this. She thinks this is a hopeless situation. She cannot understand the words.. Soon, someday, later and eventually. She needs to know what is happening right now. In the morning, in the afternoon.. And she needs to be reassured each day, sometimes all through the day. Intensive yes.

YOU need to work VERY closely with the therapist and figure out what you CAN do. Your post is full of what you cannot do and guess what? Your child does not need to hear all of that. Most parents are trying to solve problems at any cost to protect their children.. not continue to have one more obsitcals to place in front of their care of their children.

Make aplan and begin REALLY working on it.

She needs some stability and security. I don't think its wrong to ask kids to make sacrifices from time to time, but perhaps you guys are asking too much of her. Maybe she wanted you and your ex to stay together - now she is being forced to be ok with the divorce. Maybe she didn't want to share a bed with her sibling - but now she has to. Maybe she didn't want to spend all that time away from you in the first place - but she had no choice. Maybe she doesn't want a new sibling....and so on and so on. My point is, let her see you will give in to her sometimes. If she doesn't want to go to school or needs more time with you, let her stay home, no matter if your bf has to work or not. I understand he has to make a living but if he - a grown man - can't adjust to the situation of not doing what he wants and needs for an hour or two, how do you expect a 5 yr old can each and every day without a break? Its not her fault you live in a tiny condo and therefore must be out of the house because of the potential interuptions she - an emotionally charged 5 yr old - will cause.

This is long! But please read it J.! There is no judgement... Im putting myself out there....

Set up a routine for the kids. Get her into therapy asap!! Her little mind is trying to piece everything together and a lot has happened in the past two years that even adults could have a hard time dealing with it.

You are doing the best you can do for little one! Keep on doing your best and have a counselor help you out. There is counselors out there that work on a sliding scale based on your income. Some even come to the house to make it easier on families. Contact your local health department and they will lead you in the right direction.

Trust me I know from experience how so much in a small time frame can turn a loving wonderful child into some body you don't even recognize!

I found out my husband was cheating on me with my best friend. I moved out two weeks later with nothing but the clothes on my back and all of the pictures. I would sleep on the floor at night after work and go to his house in the morning before the kids ( my oldest was 8) woke up for a month so the kids didn't know what was going on yet.

we finally told them that mom moved out and mommy and daddy weren't going to be together anymore. Two days later she moved in with him and the kids. We set up a visitation schedule ( 50/50). But the kids didn't even get a chance to adjust to mom and dad not being together then all the sudden daddy's "friend" was living with him. It took 6 months for our divorce to be finished. Two months later they got married. That was another blow to them. Still not over mom and dad not living together and all the sudden there was a step mom. ( Im not judging you!! This is just my story) Well my oldest ( almost 9 at this point) acted up here and there. He was good at my house but he gave his dad and sm a run for their money.

2 years later I met a guy. We took it slow. He would stop by with little things he found out in the woods at work and would bring it over to them. He would come over for camp fires little things. Then he would join us for dinner or a movie before bedtime. I did things very slow around my kids with him after seeing how my oldest reacted to my ex. After 6 months we decided to get married. He came over for dinner with us and he asked the boys if he could marry me. They were so happy! Things got better with my oldest (11 now) at both houses. Then the sm started getting on a major power trip with him because he would tell her that he liked sd better.

Well then he wanted a mohawk, I let him my ex made him cut it. He wanted to get his ear pierced ( he was almost 12 by this time) and I asked his dad he said he wasn't thrilled about the idea but never said no. So for his birthday we did it. He went to his dads and his dad drove him back to my house and said that he was no longer allowed at his house if he had his ear pierced. That was the last time he was ever at his dad's house.

A year later I honestly didn't know when it started ( I can't pin point a time exactly) but all of the sudden he was out of control!! It was like out of the blue the major behaviors were there, I didnt see it slowly build up at the time. He (13) would refuse to do anything asked. He was beating up his younger brothers. He was hitting and throwing things at me. I have been covered in so many bruises and he has broken my fingers. I would have to physically restrain him on the ground until he calmed down and it passed.

It got to the point we couldn't control him at all and our family was being turned upside down. All 4 of his younger siblings were scared of him. I finally got him into counseling.. it took our 3rd counselor to believe me that there was a problem with him and didn't see through his happy go lucky lies that everything was perfect and I was making it up.

After 6 months of her coming to our house once a week we FINALLY got to the bottom of it... after 5 years he still hadn't come to terms with the divorce and his dad remarrying so soon. His world was turned upside down and snow balled to fast for him to adjust to any of it and he kept it inside until he blew and lost control of himself. The only thing he was happy about the last 5 years was me getting married and having his younger brother and sister.

It took a long time but we have our wonderful boy back! I just wish I would have gotten him into counseling sooner!

I am not blaming you at all for anything that is going on. I know what its like not to have anything for you kids right away. We lived in a one bedroom apt for a year with one bed ( I slept on the floor) and one dresser. we got an old tv my neighbor gave us with a vcr and movies so the kids were able to watch something. I was fianlly able to get a table and a couch over time and made a home for my boys. You do what you can with what you have!

Just keep your chin up... Im not judging you at all.. hell I just bared my heart and told my ugly family "story"! But if it will help anyone Im willing to share it. You are not alone on this, but please get her some help. It sounds ( in imo) that she is acting the same way as my son did. Hopefully it will get better ((( hugs)))

Hi mama,

I'm sorry you are so upset, and at a loss with your daughter right now. Very understandable. :) It's hard!

It sounds like you all have a lot going on. LOTS of life-changing situations. As another person said, you are fully aware. In another year from now, you are going to wonder how you all got through it.

Right now, it does sound like your little girl is overwhelmed with life (I would be, and I'm an adult). The poor thing is trying to figure out how she fits into this world and how she is going to cope...something she isn't doing well at.

You are doing all the right steps. Identifying the problems, the triggers, and getting help. I think you are doing the best with what you have going on.

I would suggest giving her as much positive attention as possible, and giving her lots of verbal affirmations ("You will always be at the top of my heart, you were my first baby." "I love spending time with you! "I love you no matter how well you behave or how bad you are, we just get along better when you behave."). Can you have a date with her once a week? Can you have her help pick out things for the baby? Give her some control on the situation she doesn't have control over?

Can you go to the dollar store and get some cute sticker decals (they have them at our dollar store) and let her decorate her room or half of the room?

It sounds like she needs to have some ownership and control of her life. She doesn't understand why her SAHM moved out (even if it was awhile ago....no judgment here), and now she can't stay at the house/bedroom she had for so long, and why she is now with mom -- whom she can't SAH with (something she probably did before the divorce and preschool?).

Life happens. Nothing stays stable no matter how hard we try. Don't beat yourself up over the choices you have made for your family. Don't let the people who were nasty get to you. Focus on your 5 y.o. She's the one who needs you the most right now (and then don't forget to give your 4 y.o. some extra attention, too). I'm sending you all the strength I can to help you get through this. :)

I'd also play down excitement over the baby for awhile. Put baby as a second fiddle....put your 5 y.o. at the front. She is the one who needs you the most right now. When baby comes, baby will be.....you have 3 months to bring your oldest on board, and then you need to make her the assistant mommy.

I'm not really seeing the mean comments. Yes, there are one or two that are pretty direct and a little judgemental, but those ought not be enough to make you cry.

J., I think you should seriously consider some parenting classes and perhaps look into family counseling. I'm NOT saying you're a bad parent AT ALL, so don't misunderstand. What I'm saying is that you need some tools for your Mommy Toolbox to help your daughter and yourself. Also, the problem with your daughter's behavior is likely driven by a systemic issue which affects every person in the family...so family counseling is needed to weed those problems out.

I wish you the very best.

A 6 year old kindergartner was recently handcuffed and taken to a juvenile detention center, in the back of a police car for the same exact behavior.

You need to get your daughter in a routine with you in your home, that is more important than having her room perfectly set up. Her outbursts are largely stress driven, sounds like she has hit her breaking point. Her whole world had been turned upside down in just a few short months. Make her a stable home, get her into a positive routine and get her some counseling and things will likely calm down with her. Spend as much one on one time with her as possible. I wouldn't be surprised if she started regressing in potty training soon as well. It's typical for kids in these types of situations.

Dr. Sears has some great advice here:
http://askdrsears.com/topics/discipline-behavior
http://askdrsears.com/topics/discipline-behavior/botherso...

It seems that your daughter misses dad and may see other girls with their daddy's--the trigger.

Try to give her more one-on-one time with you. I was a single mom for a while then I was blessed with a wonderful stepdad for my son. They to this day are closer in relationship than my son and his biological dad. However, the initial relationship between son and step dad was not good at all. He was age 7 when I remarried.

Hi J.,

I have not read all of the other responses, so excuse me if I repeat some stuff here. I agree with a lot of what Jo and Nikki said...you are at least aware and trying to work with the issues. That's huge. It's also great that you and your ex are able to visit the preschool together as concerned parents...all of that bodes well for your daughter.

I think it's pretty clear that a lot of her behavior stems from uncertainty about the future and where she "fits" in the new situation. If your ex accidentally destroyed where she's been living, you have that too...she feels displaced and the new living situation probably doesn't feel permanent. Add to that that when she acts out, they clear the classroom and she gets attention immediately, or you come pick her up. That's a powerful incentive to act out, in my book.

Is it possible to shorten her hours at preschool until she adjusts to your new living environment? Or can she spend a couple hours at home with you per day, and a couple with your BF's parents? Or maybe your BF could work a couple hours a day at the library or a cafe? I think bottom line your daughter needs one on one time, preferably with you but if not with a caring adult, until she can learn to control her emotions...yet I wouldn't cut out preschool entirely. I think, barring any other developmental or emotional issues, this process might be achieved fairly quickly as kids are pretty resilient.

Sorry so long--and please don't take offense to my statement about the developmental/emotional piece...I have experienced, to a lesser degree, what you are describing with my husband's daughter. In her case I attributed her behavior solely to her dad getting remarried, but am finding out (years later) that there have been other issues at school all along. Unfortunately for her, she has not gotten the kind of intervention you are describing doing for your daughter. Feel free to PM me any time if you have questions or if I can help you.

she has had a lot happen! She is acting out because she is stressed with everything going on, she is most likely tired of going back and forth and she misses you and probably her dad too. Is there anyway you guys can move into a larger condo or house? That way your boyfriend (who really shouldn't be living with you when you are trying to get your daughter through everything else) can work in another bedroom/office. Or can he just go to the library? You daughter needs you and maybe you can just put her in part time preschool that way she still gets to go to school and be home with you more. She is acting out because of all the changes in her life. She needs some routine! Also since your having another baby with the boyfriend, that is going to make things much worse for her. I'm sorry, but you need to put her needs first and your boyfriend can find somewhere else to do his work. She NEEDS you right now. Also get some counseling for all of you. Good luck!

First off, although I didn't read them all, you got a lot of good responses. Only saw one that was judgmental and offered nothing by way of advice.

I agree that a lot of the problem is that your daughter has had no stablity for the past couple of years. You do need to form a daily plan/schedule and stick to it. You won't see changes right away, but over time things will get better. Kids really need stablity and routine. Without it, they are a mess!

Good luck! Take one day, one hour at a time. It will get better with consistency and routine. Do keep your doctor's appt. I think it will be very important for your little girl to have a counselor/therapist to talk to.

I have not ready anyone elses comments but from what I read from your follow up it was not all very nice and I am sorry for that. As for your question on little girl. Sounds like there is a lot going on in her little world and she does not know how to deal with it. But does sound like you are using the resourses you have been given to get her checked out. She could have some underlying behavor or phycologial issues that may need to be addressed and the play theropy at her age will probably be the best thing for her. We did that with my oldest when he about got kicked out of a daycare. They should be able to give you ideas of what to do. You said you had been able to get some stuff to maybe set up their room but have nto been able to do it. Maybe if you have someone that might be able to come in and help you set it up. If you are having complications with your pragnancy I understand you not being able to do it yourself. Keep your head up and know you are going in the right direction it just is taking longer I am sure than you would like.

Good luck and God Bless!

It sounds like you are doing a lot right to try to figure this out. Our son went through a time where he would get extremely angry over things when he was 5. We moved that year and his baby sister was born that year. So perhaps these changes or perhaps it was just his age/maturity at that time. We had him see a child therapist who ended up telling us there is nothing wrong with our son - he's just a very smart, strong willed, and emotional kid. One thing I did was to have a mommy-son date night every other week with him. You could start this with your daughter...have a "date" together regularly and just go eat dinner out or go take a walk somewhere pretty or go do something fun just the two of you. Then you get one on one time talking to her and hearing about her day. This helped with our son. Also, he just matured a lot and stopped with the really bad behavior in his 1st grade year...it was an amazing year for him. This year in 2nd grade he has matured even more. Hang in there. I hope things start getting better soon.

I know that in your other post you stated that she also lives with her dad and his new GF and kids right? could it be that whatever you are doing at YOUR house is not being followed at your exes? You know consistancy goes a loooooong way with kids and if you're putting 110% effort and your ex (or his gf, since you said ur ex works alot) is putting in 60% then whatever you're doing is not gonna work. I don't know if you get along with ur exes new gf or not, but maybe her mothering skills are way different then yours and your daughter is confused as to how she should act. I think all the going back and forth may be bothering her, but i also understand that it's just how it has to be for now. I would say just try and get everyone on the same page when it comes to discipline and hopefully that will help. Best of luck!! I have a 5 y/o girl too along with 3 other girls and i know these little drama queens can be a handful.

wow, its been prob over a year since i have been on this site hoping for some answers myself. sorry to hear that their are still some very negative people making unnecessary comments to you.
i personally would start by talking to your daughters school councelor, see what she/he can recommend. the next biggy is spend more time with her just the two of you. my daughter loves a girls day out, picnic in the park & walk, shopping even just grocery shopping together. good luck