What to Do for Very Defiant 5 Year Old Girl?

Is it always or a specific time period? One of my granddaughters started full day kindergarten and every single day she is in melt down mode between 5 to 7. She's tired. She's spent a lot of time focusing and paying attention. There's no reasoning with her. So we go outside and run around a bit or pop in a dvd and watch a movie or color or play a board game. Whatever she chooses so that the transition time is less tearful.

If kindergarten has been in session for maybe 5-6 weeks, how many different methods have you tried in that period of time? Probably WAY too many! Of course nothing works - she's confused about what her consequences are. I'm not sure what you mean by trying so hard "not to give up." Parents don't get to give up. They have to be the grown-up here and set the rules.

She's had a huge adjustment of going to school and being in (probably) a large class with a lot of really big kids in the halls. That's overwhelming sometimes. Is she acting up at school and screaming/saying no? Or only with you? If only with you, then you need to figure out what the teacher is doing that you aren't. Really. Is the teacher yelling at her, "Pick up your things?" No? Then you shouldn't be either. Not sure if you are - you don't say. My point is, if she's behaving one place and not the other, then you have to look at why. If the school has contacted you about her, then you set up a conference and get specifics, find out what the teacher does that works and what doesn't, and agree to some consistency. If she's only doing it at home, then you have to allow her some down time or "re-entry" time with no chores and no expectations other than politeness - maybe quiet time in her room with a book, maybe running around outside for 20 minutes (play catch with her, draw a hopscotch grid on the driveway with chalk, anything).

Now, about the accidents. Again, only at home or at school as well? It's common in school, as kids are distracted by all the activities, don't know where the bathrooms are, don't realize that everyone can't go at once and they have to take turns, and so on. If it's only at home, and you've ruled out medical causes with the pediatrician and especially if this is new behavior, then she can wear pull-ups as needed. If it's pure defiance, then you have to address ALL of the defiance as one problem, not just the toileting accidents.

Tantrums - you ignore. You don't hear them. You don't respond. You have a standard phrase that both you and her father and any other caregiver use. Maybe it's "I can't understand you when you scream. Let me know when you want to talk normally." Maybe it's, "You can scream in your room, and you can come out when you're done." "We don't hit and kick in this house. Go to your room until you can control yourself." What you say is less important that only saying it once or twice (the 1-2-3 method) and exactly the same way. Don't argue with her, don't answer her demands, nothing.

Doesn't pick up her things? Did she do so before and you know that she knows how? I know it sounds silly, but my friend (a kindergarten teacher) puts a strip of tape on the floor and tells them to stand on the tape because 5 year olds don't know what "line up, please" means. So "clean up please" can be confusing too. But I agree with Tadpole about the plastic bag for stuff that isn't important enough to her to pick up. She doesn't want it? It's Mom's toy now. Don't discuss the "terms" of redeeming items when she's yelling. Just put it away for now.

Once a tantrum (or other undesirable behavior) doesn't work for a while, the child stops it. The essential thing is not to give in to the yelling. Reassess your priorities. If she's late to school, she's late. If she skips a snack, she skips it. If she doesn't get to play or go outside because Mom is washing urine-soaked laundry, so be it. The message is, "This is the consequence of YOUR DECISION, dear, to throw/yell/hit." It is not a random punishment thrown at her by Mom, it's HER CHOICE. That gives her the power to stop it.

I think you're probably bouncing from Technique A to Technique B (and C and D) too fast, and no one can keep track. Calm it all down, defuse the situation, and understand that you are in control. Maybe not in that exact moment when she won't do what you want, but within 5 or 10 minutes, she's going to want something that she now can't have because you had to a) clean up, b) wash underwear, c) put ice on the bruise where she kicked you, or whatever. You now no longer have time for her. That usually gets them in line.

One thing we were taught by my daughter's pediatric psychologist was that most parents don't realize, when they're trying a technique to deal with a problematic behavior such as tantrums or biting, that things will get worse before they get better.

For example, say your child has terrible tantrums, and you have decided to completely ignore her as though she didn't exist when the tantrum starts. Of course, you make sure she's safe and not about to tip over a large vase or tv, but you don't react to the tantrum or even make eye contact with her. You don't appear rattled or upset or angry. You don't speak to the child.

The response will most likely be that the tantrum gets louder and lasts longer than the previous one. And many parents will say, "well, that didn't work" and they try something else next time.

In reality, the technique was working. That longer and louder tantrum meant the child was realizing that her tantrum wasn't producing any agitation in the parent, and wasn't producing any desired results (getting that cookie, or more time at the playground). So the child ramps up the tantrum level.

But if the parent keeps the technique up, the tantrums will decrease.

Our child's doctor said that the most important thing he wished he could say to all parents is: "Ignored behavior will decrease, rewarded behavior will increase". And then he said that it's imperative for parents to understand what children understand to be rewarding. It's not toys, money, gold stars, etc. It's the parents' eye contact, conversation, attention, and hugs. So if you reward her good behavior by talking with her, getting down on her eye level and looking at her and smiling, by chatting, by inviting her to help you make a salad or stir cookie dough, and by giving her your attention, that good behavior will be rewarded and will increase. If you ignore the tantrum and especially if you don't show any emotion or make any eye contact, that kind of behavior will phase itself out. But you've got to choose one good plan and stick to it and make sure the family cooperates, and understand that a successful plan means the behavior will probably get worse just before it gets better. Be patient.

And be very clear with your expectations. Don't say pick up clothes, say "hang your coat HERE every day". Don't say "be good", say "sit quietly in your chair". Keep your sentences brief, and don't overwhelm her with too many instructions. Some kids get frustrated when they hear "get your boots on, put your coat on, make sure the puppy has water, and then get in the car". That's just too much to process. Give simple clear instructions, one step at a time.

I'd talk to her pediatrician to see if she might need a referral to a child psychiatrist for an evaluation. Our son's ADHD became very apparent in his preschool years due to behavior just like that (he got kicked out of preschool for violent outbursts). He also was late at full potty training due to his lack of focus. Absolutely no parenting techniques worked, so we finally pursued medical advice. Sounds like it's time for you, too.

Elena is giving you good advice. Every time she has a tantrum, put her in a room where there is nothing to do. Not her own bedroom/play room. A room she can't hurt herself in or break your things. She stays in there until her tantrum is over. You don't talk to her or let her know that you are outside the door listening. She gets nothing for her behavior. Nothing.

The accidents are normal. Ignore it. When she's wet, help her change her clothes and don't say anything about it. The kids at school will use peer pressure at some point and will fix the problem, if it's not a physical issue.

As far as not picking things up, not following your instructions are concerned, she cannot do an activity she likes until she follows your instruction. And when she has the inevitable tantrum because you won't let her do her favored activity, be 100% consistent with how you handle a tantrum. I mean it. If you are out and about and she throws one, carry her out to the car, strap her up and stand OUTSIDE the car "reading" and ignoring her, just outside of her eyeshot. Ever so often, open the car door and say "Are you done?" and if she wails even louder, shut the door. You MUST do this. NEVER give in to her when she has a tantrum, no matter what it is. And if you are on your way to the park, or movies, or library, whatever, you turn around and take her home and put her in the room so that she can think about her yelling in the car. It's a pain in the butt - yes. It causes other family members problems. But you must do it if you want this to get better.

Find her the book "The Berenstain Bears Get the Gimmees". It shows the young bear child having tantrums when she can't get what she wants. She looks ridiculous doing it, and she might realize it when you read the book.

It takes time. I mean it. Especially if she has a difficult temperment. I had one with a difficult temperment. I had to do this. It really put a cramp into our fun. I remember that we were going to go to lunch and then to a movie one afternoon. We were all in the car and he started getting agitated because he wanted to go to the movie first. He didn't understand that the movie wouldn't start for 2 hours. When I told him we were eating first, he started having a meltdown. We turned the car around and went home. No trying to cajole him or talk him out of his tantrum. Just going home and putting him in his room. After he stopped the crying, we had lunch and then I put him back in his room to think about how he wasn't supposed to yell in the car. He paid the piper for this kind of behavior. And it took a long time for this to go away. Accept it, but keep consistent with it. And like Elena said, don't keep trying a bunch of different things. Your child needs to know what to expect from you in order to learn your lessons.

First you need to determine if this is a problem with her, or if it's you.
How is she at school? with other adults and caregivers? in public? If she is mostly well behaved with other people and in other environments then you need to look at what's going on at home and how you are parenting her.
I would talk to her teacher and doctor first, to rule out any behavioral issues, and then if needed sign up for some parenting classes or see a family counselor. Your pediatrician can give you referrals for these.

School only started recently. If you have tried "so many things" already then you're contributing to the problem with inconsistency. Most methods don't have instant results and you have to stick with them long-term. By switching what you're doing so soon and frequently, you've invited more chaos into your home.

Make an appointment with the school counselor to talk about what your daughter is going through at home and school, and get tips from him/her because they've probably seen it all. Then stick with whatever program you two come up with for a few months so that you give it an opportunity to work.

i use the 123 magic method with a trip to the corner if they don't behavior correct before #3.
i also try to use redirection, when i see that the kids are getting too rowdy i send them outside, if they are beginning to fight i send them to their rooms or have them do a chore. they get 3 chances to clean up then i get out a trash bag.. what mom puts into the trash bag stays there for a month or they can do additional chores to get something back out of the bag.
for the accidents put her in a pullup so theres not a wet mess and tell her when shes ready to be a big girl she can go back to underwear after 5 days (or whatever length of time you want) of no accidents.
i would also have her evaluated by her pedi to rule out any problems, but if you work with a system consistently for a period of time you should see results. ( that period of time being a month or longer)

5 yrs old is a little old for this.
Terrible 2's and 3's is prime time for when kids learn some boundaries.
It might be worth it to have her evaluated for behavioral issues and learning delays.
A child psychologist might be best to give you advice on how to cope.

Hi! Has anything drastic change in your lives to trigger this so called bad behavior? Move, separation, divorce, new sibling?? Sometimes that can change their behavior or she's just pushing her boundaries as a lot of 5 year olds do. They are learning what's acceptable behavior and testing. Just make sure to keep consistently correcting her. A little consequence goes a long way at that age. No dessert or play time at a friends house. Be gentle and keep your cool. Remember they learn almost everything from us parents. So keep calm and carry on. This too shall pass! Best to you!

Does she only behave this way at home with you? How are things going at school?