To Tell or Not?

i agree with lisa, the little girl NEEDS you to talk to mom, it is a possibility that she'll quit talking to you as well, there is no friendship strong enough that will not end over issues with children, if she cuts out everyone in her life due to people telling the truth, one day she'll find herself all alone and miserable. I did the very same thing with a friend i've known since jr high, and well, we havn't talked in almost 3 years and dont' expect to hear back from her.

Great friendships are based on the ability to be honest and upfront while being loving. Your friend has already expressed her inability to accept the truth about her daughter. I would probably put some distance between my kids and this little girt because if you ever had to choose you would choose your children over the antics or manipulations of this little girl.

Your friendship may be doomed because this friend can't see her daughter for who she is being allowed to become.

Instead of hitting your friend between her eyes with the cold hard truth, you may want to try to pry her eyes open with some simple questions about character and behavior. She may not be ready, willing or able to accept these questions either depending on her level of living in the dark or how dark her rose colored glasses are.

You may need to pull back from this friendship and wait for her to ask you why and then explain to her about how you have watched her cut off several people and before that happened between the two of you and that you thought it was in your best interest to just pull back.

Whatever your decide, it is going to take love and tact.

I would say something. It's all in how to go about it. My friends are very blunt with me and I am with them, but we're a strange bunch to say the least. We're the ones that don't have any other friends because we're 'too blunt' sometimes... That's why we fit together. : ) And all of us know that our kids are capable of doing rotten things... That just means we're honest with ourselves. : )

Now... How to go about it... She's obviously sensitive to what's being said about her 'princess'. Maybe because SHE KNOWS that they're all right. I've seen things like this. Invite her out for adult only coffee or something. Tell her that you have something to talk to her about and that it may hurt her feelings, but that you must say something. Explain how YOU'D feel to be her and in her situation. This shows that you understand her even if it means her pulling away. Explain that sometimes when one is looking in from the outside, things like this are seen more clearly than the one dealing with it. She may not know how to change things. If not, offer advice on how to make some changes. Tell her some specific things that you have experienced with her daughter. I would just say to try and be gentle and act as though you were the one receiving this message from one of your friends. Talk to her as you'd want to be spoken to. She is and will be on the defensive. Let her make comments and rebuttles so she doesn't feel like she's being bombarded by her friend.

I was told and I tell others this... If your child is well behaved for everyone except you, you're doing something right. That means they know how to behave and the consequences of not doing so. Clearly, she's doing something wrong if her daughter is acting worse for everyone else.

I think you owe it to the LITTLE GIRL to talk to her mom. You will probably lose a friend, but what good is it to keep a friend if this little girl behaves in such a way that she NEVER has friends. You know how to get a keep friends so you will have other friends. If things stay as they are, the same thing can't be said for the little girl. What a miserable exsistence that would be because she will only be doing what she has been told is right and ok by the person she trusts most in the whole world. She will not understand.

Having said all that, if you are going to tell her you need to do it the right way. I would tell my friend all of the good qualities I see in her child (look hard to find them) and what I see her potential being. Then I would tell her things that were concerning to me. I would stick to specific behaviors or instances. I would not say things about HER or her mother. I would talk about things that she does. If she feels like it's a character assasination she will INSTANTLY defend her daughter. If she feels like it's an attack on her parenting she will INSTANTLY defend herself. I would back up what I said with a story recounting when it happened and how it harmed HER DAUGHTER. For instance, "She told a little girl she wouldn't be her friend if she didn't give her a toy and now she has lost a friend. She is losing friends. She is going to be hurt and lonely."

If your going to do it, go all the way. But do it with kindness and love and with the motive being helping this little girl.

L.

I agree with Mallory. If it is getting THAT bad where you and your kids' safety is in question, then you've gotta choose between your friendship and her feelings or your kids' safety. This is probably going to be a no brainer for you. But, maybe you could do it without a confrontation. Just start to pull away. If she presses for a reason, THEN I would fess up, but if not, just back away from her

Your friend is already lost. Her denial in the face of so many who have tried to tell her that something is wrong is so strong she's not going to wake up until there is serious trouble and even then that might not be enough. Sometimes you can see the train wreck that is coming but there is nothing you can do to prevent it. Step away now before you and yours get caught up in it.

To be a true friend is to tell the truth sometimes, even if it hurts. Tell it in a caring versus judgemental manner, because this is probably stemming from something deeper.

I say good for you Mommyloveskids, for standing up to "Patty"! I thought that was way out of line, too.

My goodness, lady! How presumptuous of you!

I have been in this situation as well - WITH MY OWN NIECE! And no, I still cannot trust her either! I agree with many posts here - seek understanding, voice concerns and let the cards fall where they may. One day your dear friend will find herself lonely and it will dawn on her that she's got to make some choices/changes....before it's too late! Good luck and godspeed my freind!

Thats a tough one. I really believe that as a friend you should be able to have a heart to heart with her out of concern. I would sit down with her and talk to her but maybe not use the word manipulative or words she has already heard before that comes off more that you are insulting her daughter or her. Try making it about your conern for her and her daughter and reasure her that you are her friend and care about her and that you are not trying to upset her. And that you feel it is your job as a friend to be honest with her and give her your opinion. Thats all it is...an opinion and she can take it or leave it.

You do know that you will lose this friend forever if you tell her. That is as plain as day. But the question is....do you really want to have her as a friend anyhow? Especially if you cannot trust her child around yours. This is very serious. I would tell her....and say that you cannot be her friend anymore because of her child and what you have seen of her not listiening to everyone about her. That yo care about her very much but cannot watch it anymore and furthermore cannot expose your kids to it. This pre-emptive strike by you may be your only chance of salvaging the friendship and helping her. People do not like to be "broken up with" and it doesn't sound like this has happened to her yet because of this-so maybe it is time. It couldn't hurt because you know in your heart you cannot continue this relationship as it is now.

Sounds like she has already heard from many others about how her daughter's behavior is impacting them. Doubt she take your input any differently.

Keep the friendship with the mother if you value that. But stop the time spent with the child. Honestly, I too have curtailed the time I spent in family outing/play date situations with a friend because we have very different parenting styles and her child drives me to distraction. I value her as an adult...Not not so much as a parent. And that's OK.

Only you can answer : Is it worth losing your friendship over? If yes, then yes. If no, then no.

I don't think anyone can answer this question with the information you've given.
You say you don't "trust this child at all around myself or my children" but you don't say WHY. Is she just a liar, a troublemaker? What?
If she's at your house, she can be expected to follow your rules. If that brings the situation to a "head" with your friend, then I guess you'll have little choice but to talk to her about it.
Now if she is physically abusive, dangerous, or putting you or your children in direct harm, then I do think you need to speak up.
When I've had to approach another mom about her child's dangerous behavior I've always done it in an "I'm telling you because if my child was doing this, I'd want to know" kind of way.
You might know she is raising this child with way too much leeway, but you don't have to look around too far to see that it takes all kinds!

Any ideas why she gives this one child special privileges over the others? I'd feel curious about that and approach her in a "I would like to understand" way. Maybe something happened that you don't know about and that's why she's doing what she's doing. Be a friend and support her by understanding her situation first, then you can talk about the problems it's causing. This is not about anyone else imposing their child rearing skills onto her. (I'd feel hella pissed about that.) There has to be some trade off she's getting for letting this child do more than her other children. There's a reason for it.

Seek first to understand. It may completely change your mind about the whole situation when you see it through HER eyes.

Words might look like:

Me: Hey Betsy. I'm noticing that you've switched schools for Susan and a few other things are going on lately. I feel concerned. I see friends backing off and I imagine that might feel lonely for you. Would you like to talk? I'd like to listen if you want to talk about what's going on.

Betsy: Yes, I feel so mad at these people judging me about how I treat Susan. Screw them.

Me: Judging feels terrible. I don't want to do that either. Any idea why it's happening?

Betsy: They just think I let her have her way. What they don't know is that she has a life threatening disease (or she almost died at birth or I had postpartum and nearly killed her by shaking one night, etc.). So I give her a lot of extra leeway.

Me: Oh wow. I didn't know that about Susan. That feels horrible. I'm sorry Betsy. I feel bad. I have been concerned about Susan's behavior and it's impact on me and my family. I had no idea. Is there anything I can do?

And on and on and on...

Seek first to understand.

I honestly think you should tell your friend. Now this she will not like and it's not what she wants to hear, but maybe coming from you it will make her think twice about this. Since you will not be the only or the first one to be telling her this. But I do think you should let your friend now and open her eyes a little bit, I know that us as moms tend to place our kids on pedestals and think they wont do anything wrong. They are angels in our eyes, but when a friend points out stuff they see from their eyes it might help us open ours. Go for it and good luck and your friend is lucky to have you as a caring friend.

Good luck.

There is an adult in my life who has clearly always gotten away with bad behavior. Her mother still says, "pretend it never happened." Seriously? Because that approach worked out SO WELL....at turning her into a nasty piece of work as an adult.

I hope your friend listens.

oh my God, this is a child you are talking about, not the Devil! What should you "trust" her for anyways? I may be the voice out of the choir here, but i suggest you step out of yourself for a while and see if you come back with a less paranoid approach to the subject..not to be offensive, but note that sometimes opinions can be sneaky and one finds herself looking for facts that match them...I say take a break from this mental drama and after a while see if you still feel the same about it. I do think you may go overboard with it, frankly. But it's just my opinion.

I personally don't think it's your (or mine or anyone else's) place to correct another person's parenting unless they ask you for advice or are physically/emtionally abusing the child. It is clear she doesn't want to hear advice from others. If it's to the point where you don't want her to come over because you fear her child's behavior, be honest and tell her that you fear the child's behavior and exactly why, but be prepared to lose her as a friend.