I Have a 5 Yr. Old That Seems to Be Really "Mean" and Will NOT Listen

I agree with most of the moms who have replied, give lots of choices, set limits, and give consequences. I would add to that to try really hard not get reeled into an argument. A love and logic saying is "I love you too much to argue." Kids will do everything they can to get into a power struggle with you, but it doesn't work if you clam up! Like some other moms said, she doesn't want to get dressed? Great, cheerfullly pack up her clothes. She doesn't want to eat? Super, feed it to the dog... and no snacks until the next meal. Doesn't want to brush her teeth? How sad, because girls who don't brush away the germies can't eat anything with sugar.

Good luck, and look up that love and logic stuff...I'm another J. who can't get enough of it!

J.

Dear C.,
I understand the feeling Oh So Well, I love my son so much and I read somewhere that parents (and children) resort to anger when we don�t know what else to do, It sounds like you want a different approach to the situation than to where your see it leading.

Here is what has helped me, (For those who know me, Sorry if I wear it out, I'm just a lover of it, its saved my sanity and my relationship with my child) and that is Love & Logic, check out this page for parents http://www.loveandlogic.com/parents.html and here is an article about angry children http://www.loveandlogic.com/pdfs/angry.pdf . I found (through the Elementary school) a 6 or 8 (cant remember) class course on Love & Logic, bought the "Parenting with Love & Logic" and "Parenting Teens with Love & Logic", I honestly can't say enough, I don�t have to yell or have power battles with my son anymore (not that I don't forget to apply the tools) but it has definitely given me the life and relationship I wanted all along with my son. It�s amazing.
Best of luck to you and your family.

I hope that you've found some ways that work for you and your daughter. I agree with a lot of what the other mother's have said. I too recommend the Love and Logic books. Their techniques work because they help you stop the war between you and your daughter.

Another idea not mentioned is it will also help if you find a way to take care of yourself so that what she does, doesn't feel so personal. Know that you are a good parent who is learning new skills. Have pleasant things to think about when your daughter gets obnoxious. That will help you avoid getting overly involved in her misbehaviour.

I've found that to remain calm, confident, and authoritive in a compassionate way the most difficult thing to do. I was so easily hooked into fighting with my daughter and becoming angry when she wouldn't listen and obey. Your daughter is strong willed and learning how to be independent. She thinks that she knows best and the two of you are engaged in a battle of wills. Mothers always lose those battles.

Sending her to school in her pjs is a great idea.
If she doesn't want to eat, OK. She'll eat when she's hungry. You decide when food is available. Ignore her efforts to get you to do what she wants when what she wants is inappropriate. If doing what she wants is appropriate but her way of asking for it is not, tell her how to ask and reinforce that good behaviour by doing what she asked.

Remembering that you are in charge and that you love her at the same time might help you remain calm and matter of fact. What is happening is not a personal attack on you and your authority even tho it feels that way. She is learning how to control her environment. You are teaching her what works.

To teach her what works means not responding to the negative behaviour but also setting up situations in which you can do what she wants. Help her have success. Show her how to ask for things and allow her to say no in other situations. Spending more time with her having fun might be helpful.

It will help if you can disengage before you get upset. Give yourself a time out. Go to another room, turn on the TV, whatever helps you to keep your cool.

I recommend trying to completely ignore her rude
and defiant remarks in a way that shows she hasn't hooked you. I've been told in parenting classes that if you can calmly and consistently ignore a behaviour it will eventally quit. Never react to the remarks. Deal with the other behavior such as taking her to school in her pjs or putting away the food with the comment that it will be available at the next meal. I wasn't able to be consistent in ignoring my daughter's remarks and so it didn't work for me.

And never argue with her. This has been a difficult one for me too. And with my daughter I learned that when I did too much explaining of why she should or should not do something I was inviting her to tell me that I was wrong. I said I would never say, "because I told you to," but that is a useful phrase in many situations. Other useful phrases are "because it's the rule, because that is what we do in this house or at this school, or while at the store, or in order to get something else." If you want to discuss the reasons for it later in a calm conversation OK but stop the talk if it becomes argumentative.

Raising a strong willed child is very difficult. It is easy to slip into constant battles. Try to inject some humor into the situation and plan for fun together. That will help all of you.

And remember that nearly all that you're dealing with is not life threatening. Learning how to manage our feelings and our actions to get what we want is much more important than getting dressed or eating at that moment. Once you know how to make a positive connection with your daughter and how to consistently enforce the rules in an unemotional way these bad traits will go away. Others will begin as she grows but you will have the basic skills and the mutual respect to cope with them.

I also think that it helps if you let your daughter be involved in making some of the rules. For example: You want her to go to bed at 8 but you can involve her by giving her the choice of bedtime at 7:30 or 8. She is more apt to be co-operative if they're her rules. This will be even more important as she reaches the teen years.

At 5, spanking will not work anyway, so you can throw that out. My first recomendation is setting up a video camera and taping a couple hours of interaction between you and your daughter. Then sitting down and watching it with her, you can both evaluate what happend. You might notice some things on the video that you might have missed in the heat of the moment. Based on what you see in the video, it might be that you can make a list of items that need done every day and work up a reward chart, giving her a sticker for each thing accomplished correctly WITHOUT arguing or mean talking.

i understand! i have a 4 yr old the same way. for him the issue(s) are simple yet hidden. they hold grudges forever and dont like surprises. my son will be spitting fire for 3 days until i figure out that i said we had cheese crackers left for snack then found out my husband gave them to my daughter. these personalities are creatures of habit and consistency with a dash of obsessive compulsive cleanliness. the more order i keep in the house, in the routine/daily schedule, with the childs own input the better we get along. i have also found that the more tools i give my son to verbalize his feelings and frustrations the less venom is spit, and less bruises are given. i have also found that counting works: i count slowly to 5 waiting for my son to stop/start a behavior or activity. during the slow counting i will tell him the consequence if my request is ignored. mutual respect is a concept that also is very important for your daughter to understand. good luck!

I have a very stong willed three year old. He is not so much mean as he is determind. We were fighting with him quite a bit to get things done, some of your aguments seemed familar such as getting dressed, listening to what we asked and quite a bit of whining. We took an idea from Super Nanny. We bought a small glass jar and let Ethan pick out any color marbles that he liked (at Joanne's you can find these supplies). When he is good and does what we ask he earns a marble (sometimes when he does something really good he earns more than one) and when he is not being so good we take one away! When the jar is full, we take him to the store and he gets to pick out something he wants. The trick to this is that YOU have to follow through. If you say you are going to take a marble away then you have to do it! This has brought peace to our once war torn home. Hope it helps you!

I think at 5 children are trying to express their independance and push boundries I think it is time for a little rough justice and I dont mean smacking or spanking cause honestly I have spanked and it just doesnt work. I have gotten to the point that when my children say mean things to me and hurt my feeling I do it right back. My 3 yr old daughter will scream cry and whine for what she wants I will tell her I can not hear you when you whine and cry and scream when you are ready to talk to me nice then I will listen and we will talk about what you want then we go through this little bit about when I say what do you want she will grunt and me and cross her arms ..ok so I walk out of the room ok so last night my daughter wanted popcorn but she did not want to wait her turn to get some so I told her to wait her turn and she yelled at me. I told her that was rude and thats all my older daughter asked for some so I said yes you can and thank you for asking me so nice. So then I turned to cadi and tol her I dont like it when she acts like that and I will not listen to her now it was her turn to get popcorn but I asked for a hug and she grunted at me again so I said to my older daughter Morgan can I have a hug and she gave me a hug and I said oh thank you I like that and spent the rest of the night ignoring cadi but giving the other kids lots and lots of attention so when cadi was finally ready to stop her tantrum and get popcorn I grunted at her and it hurt her feeling and yes she cried so then I explained to her when she does it to me it hurts my feeling too. children are very self centered and do believe that the world revolves around them an donly them. I wouldnt wast time trying to make your daughter happy when she is displaying innapropriate behavior you know the saying treat people the way you want to be treated? well maybe it is time for her to learn that. I am not saying however to treat her like this all the time only when she is displaying behaviour that is rude or hurtful. she will start to understand though that she hurts you when she does this because you hurt her feeling when youdo this to her. This I have found works best for me it may seem harsh but I would rather teach my child this at 5 them try at 15.... it does hurt alot to just to know you have hurt their feeling on purpose but it sure does pay off in the end. Do not be afraid to hurt your childs feeling though that is the way they learn dont be afraid to say you know what I am mad at you and I dont want to talk to you right now because you did or said this so just go somewhere else I dont even want to see you that is how upset I am. your child will come to understand that what she says and does will affect the people around her but by giving in and saying ohhh thats not nice to say or just ignoring the behavior for me anyway did no good at all. I actually got this advice from another parent on here and it has helped me so much this past week just trying to make my children mind without yelling and spanking them.

Hi C.,
When my children say or do these terrible, horrible things, like say, I hate you mom, my response to them is, how would it make you feel if I told you that I hated you? Wouldn't it make you feel sad? They say yes and I tell them that is how it makes me feel. They also do it to get a response and I have found that the less of a rise they get from you, the less they will do it. I also tell them, I will not tolerate that kind of talk or behavior in this house and that I do not talk to them that way and I expect the same in return. It is an everyday, continual thing that has to be said over and over. I, like you do not believe in being physical with my children. What I have done has worked, they are extremely well behaived and follow most of the rules and are kind to eachother. I have found that talking to them and putting them in your place has helped us greatly. I wish you luck.
~MK~

I have a son who just turned 5. I have never spanked him. Children of this age are trying to find their own individuality. Have you tried to give her choices?

Otherwise, tell her that Mommy really needs her to "help" maybe being a big girl will give her some incentive.

For your problem of her getting ready in the morning I've only seen one thing work... Is she going to school now? Kindergarten? If so, if she refuses to put her clothes on in the morning send her to school in her PJ's and put her clothes in her school bag. I've seen a friend do this with her tempermental daughter and it worked within a day or two. She and I saw it on Supernanny and she tried it with tons of success! She also made a point of having her pick out her own clothes the night before so that she got a little more excited about putting them on the next day. Hope this helps you.
M.

Hi C. H.

I have a similar situation with my 4 year old. What we did is establish a naughty chair or we call ours is the bench. It is in a different room apart from any activties. We do a couple of things. One is to give choices where possible. Like, would you like to brush your teeth or get dressed? If she says neither or chooses one but doesn't do it, we change the question. Are you going to brush your teeth (her choice) or go to the bench? ( there are no toys, no conversation) Sometimes she chooes the bench however she doesn't stay long before asking to brush her teeth. We also use the bench for bad behavior: hitting, biting, losing control etc. where she usally ends up crying however, she must stop crying and apologize before leaving the bench. If she doesn't cry she gets to count to 15 or 20 or sit quietly. The longer she defies (yelling and carrying on) the longer she sits until quiet.

As far as calling you names just tell her that you love her and she doesn't really mean to say those things and that it hurts you. Then walk away. This worked for me. Once she realized it had no effect, no attention she stopped.

Another thing that works great is to take away a favorite toy for time out. My daughter's was a pair of her favorite shoes or a doll or maybe a book she just got. This worked like a charm. I told her that she can have the toy back once she apologizes or does what I ask her.

I hope this helps. I have 3 children (1,4 and 6) and it works pretty good. Let me know if I can help any further.
L. :)

P.S. Love and Logic classes are great or maybe just browse through the book

Have you tried positive reinforcement? We have a 6 1/2 year old who can be aggressive and have found that physical punishments such as spanking only make the aggression worse. We have found that positive reinforcements such as sticker charts to earn a special toy have worked very well for us. My suggestion would be to make a list of your daughter's morning routine (get dressed, brush teeth, etc) and leave it to her to get things done. If she is all done when it's time to leave and there were no arguments, then she gets a sticker on her chart (or 1 per item completed, whatever works best for you). If she is not ready, then she goes as she is (even in jammies). That's a tough one, I know! But leaving the house 1 time in his pajamas worked for my son! : ) I hope this helps and wish you the best of luck!!!

I really belive in telling the child what's about to happen before it actually does. Your child may not like change. That could be the reason for the fight. Giving choices is a good way to start her on the way to independent behavior. My son was the same way. when i give him a choice and time to process what's going on, he does better. We still struggle. Be glad your child is willful. It's hard but in the long run I think a child who can say what they want, when they want it have better self-esteem. I'm not saying let the child go their own way. You have to be the boss. Also, consistency is the best policy. If you let her words hurt you, she will use that to push your buttons. Good luck.

C., my suggestion to you is to pray. Lay hands on your daughter and pray w/o ceasing asking in the Name of Jesus to rebuke the spirt of rebellion and ask Him to put the Spirit of Cooperation on upon your daughter's heart, mind and body.

i have four children and they are a handfull, my 5yr old just turned 6, and she has the dressing issue and the hair issue, well she wanted to were a butifull dress for chuch, it even had a peddicoat for it she wanted to were her red rubber boots with it, of course we argued finally i realizes she is being an individule with her oun thought, so i let her go with the rubber boot's and now she hardly wears them with anything,i found sometime reverse phycology work's, so ok were the rubber boot's but when you get home they have to be put away untill winter, she said ok, and eating has been a challenge she wont eat meat at all she say's she's a vegatarian, i asked her do u know what that mean's and she did, so i compermise i put the meet in spagetti, mac and cheese, but she wont eat eggs, i told her no eggs then you have to eat the beans and nuts and peanut butter she has agreed,and she has eaten the beans she dont like it but i just tell her well you wont eat meet or the eggs so you made a deal with mom you would eat the other stuff and she remember's she say's ok mom. I guess compromise option's conseqences and choises and the consequences of her choices, thing's have been alot smoother, she has been independent from day one and i do mean independent. She now get's dressed on her own, does her own teeth and hair and she just turned 6 and her sock's and shoes choises and quetionable but she is happy because she made the decion and if other kids make fun of her then it is on her, but i dont think she really care's, anyways hope i helped some, e-mail me and maybe we can chat some more.

If you get a chance to read Magic 123 by Dr. Thomas Phelan it offers a great and easy way to assess those types of situations as well as deciphering which techniques to use for the different behaviors. As to getting dressed in the morning making it easier could possibly be a reward system. Maybe she gets an extra 30 mintues of TV time or that she gets to stay up 15 more minutes if she brushes her teeth or gets her PJ's on without having to ask her more than once. As for eating, give her the time at the dinner table with you guys and if she fails to eat her dinner in a timely fashion, then she doesnt get dessert or a snack and she goes to bed hungry...usually one night of that tummy growling will serve the purpose. For that fact that she is being rude...can there be an outside influence (person or tv show) that might be affecting her. One thing I am trying to implement is not reacting to her reactions, that only allows her to have control over what you are feeling. By not being emotional about her behavior she in turn has to take responsibility for her own behavior. 5 minute time outs usually work in the long run but its up to you to enforce and stand by your word. Good luck and if you get to pick up that book, its been known to work exceptionally well for many years.

I have kids that I watch act like this , and what has helped me deal with her is to sit her down and explain things to her when she takes a toy away from someone else or calls them names hits things along those lines , I get down to her level look in her eyes and simple ask "How would you feel if someone else did that to you ?" the first few times she would give an answer like I wouldn't care or it wouldn't hurt my feelings . and then I have to say think about it if someone looked at you and said I hate you how would you feel and she finailly gets it , and she needs a reminding to think about how would she feel if what she is doing to someone else where to happen to her and it helps.

Remember "discipline" means "to teach." What are you teaching your daughter about her behavior that teaches her not to do it? What are the consequences of her behavior?

Also check out loveandlogic.com

We didn't personally purchase it, but read up on a lot of the theories and it really looked good.

Good luck--every new stage with a child is a joy and a frustration at the same time!!

Take a movie clip of her when she's arguing and show it to her later . . .just one more idea that popped into my mind

From another C. in the world . . .