5 Yr Old Arguer/negotiator

Updated on February 11, 2008
W.S. asks from San Jose, CA
48 answers

It seems my son is a professional arguer/negotiator... perhaps the next Clarence Darrow! ;-)
Often when I ask him to do something (pick up toys, get dressed, etc.), he flatly refuses and says "no". He also will go into a full blown argument with me about how/why I should allow him whatever he wants. I'm astonished and frustrated by his complete defiance. I've tried time outs, taking privelages, talking about respect/alternative behaviors etc. Nothing seems to be getting through. I'm sure this is a typical stage/phase but I'd really like to move past it! Any ideas?
W.

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So What Happened?

Thanks to everyone who responded. It was great to have so many thoughts and ideas to consider. :) Strict consistancy was key and this phase seems to have passed (for now). I realized after reading the many responses and observing my own behavior how inconsistant I may have been. Once I set reasonable boundaries, provided choices and stayed consistant, it didn't take long at all for things to turn around. :) Now... on to the next challenge! :)

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D.P.

answers from San Francisco on

Try the book Redirecting Children's Behavior. I took the class at a school in the East Bay and read the book with the class. It changed how I communicated with my child and everything changed from there. Good luck.

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B.J.

answers from San Francisco on

At this age, it's all about being consistent. You said you've tried time-outs, taking priviledges, etc. What you need to do is to tell him the consequences ahead of time, and then stick to it - every..single..time.

With my son (who is 4 1/2), we also have a rewards chart, and he gets a star for "listening on the first try (in the morning)" and "listening on the first try (in the evening)".

Hope that helps! :)

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A.H.

answers from Modesto on

We are in the age of "COMMUNICATION." Sometimes it drives me nuts. One cannot discuss reasonably with an unreasonable 5 year old. (My experience 4, 5, and 6 year old boys!) Do NOT get dragged into his arguement/negotiations. (It takes two) Some times "Because I said so," can really be enough. No need to discuss.
My best arguement is, "I cannot discuss this with you until you have listened to what I have said and done what you are asked. Then if you want to discuss it, we can." I truly thing communicating is the best way, but sometimes you can get "baited" into dragging the process out forever. DO NOT DISCUSS!

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A.B.

answers from San Francisco on

Quick thoughts - and maybe I can come back later to add/elaborate.
I think it's developmentally appropriate, but not socially acceptable. So one thing is to remember that you need to empathize and keep his whole reality in mind while you are working with him to break this habit. Being punitive RARELY really works in terms of helping a child actually self-regulate. It is based on fear, power/control, and self-control.
I recommend you get hold of Barbara Coloroso's book Kids Are Worth It.

There is also a great book called How To Negotiate With Kids Even When You Think You Shouldn't. It is BRILLIANT because it doesn't propose overindulging kids; it articulates how to set boundaries and end negotiations when they should be ended and why it's important to respect where children are coming from.

Last thought has to do with the fact that your son is negotiating two home-bases. There is an organization here in town called Kids Turn that is very very good at working with children this age who are in separated/divorced families. I think you should check out their website, because some oppositional behavior at this age is likely coming from his growing understanding of families and his role in them. Some confusion, questions, even anger are normal - but I think you need to be proactive in helping him make sense of his life.

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C.H.

answers from San Francisco on

Depending on the situation... tell him you are not going to argue with him and be VERY firm about it. If he starts to argue, tell him that there is no negotiating, that is just the way things are. Walk away after you say it and then he doesn't have the chance to argue. If he follows you, don't engage him. Eventually he WILl give in. You have to be strong about this or he will never stop.

This is a phase but with his personality he will always do this to you in some form or another. If you don't nip it in the butt now, showing him that you are not giving in, he will always think that he can bug you until you give in.

As for toys and so forth. Give yourself extra time when doing anything that involves him. He may be someone that gets over stimulated when he is hurried and he can't do anything but argue. That is his safe zone and he knows he can fall back on it if he can't handle something. Help him a little, but don't do the chore. He may just be trying to get you to spend more time with him.

Age 5 is a little tough because he is still a little boy but in his head he is a big kid that thinks he should be able to go take on the world. He is transitioning from baby to boy. Be patient and remember to breathe. You may need to put yourself in a time out. A lot... I did! But it paid off!

I am a mother of 3. A 20 year old son, the arguer and negotiator all the way through his teens, a 16 year old daughter, just does what we say, and a 12 year old daughter that is the same as her brother. By the way my husband and I have found that the odd ages in years are the hardest. It really began at age 7 and continued from there. Just keep an eye out and you will see how they change and learn to get more manipulative as they get older and they think that you will give in as you age with them.

Make sure that you have a give and take relationship so that they will learn to appropriately negotiate but still stay close with you. Make sure that they can tell you everything and don't freak out! Listen even if you are too tired to do it. They need you to listen to them or they will be telling everything to someone else and you don't want them turning outward or you will loose them.

Also, don't give in on the big ones. Lying, cheating, stealing, even the smallest infractions on that one is means for harsh consequences. Kids need boundaries and they will learn to respect you for it as they get older!!!!!

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L.B.

answers from San Francisco on

You are enabling him by ASKING him to pick up his toys. Start telling him to pick up his toys (and of course admire the good work hes done). Pay attention to how much you say no to him and try to find a way to say yes instead of saying no. What I mean is, instead of saying "no drawing on the wall" say "here is some paper for drawing on and a sponge to clean off the wall." Or instead of "no hitting your friends" say "here is a pillow to hit when you're angry." Cutting back his choices, such as "its time to put away the legos" instead of an overwhelming "clean your room" or "here are your clothes" instead of "please get dressed" will also help. Tools like revoking privileges and discussing concepts are not effective with a child who is too young to understand abstract thinking, so things that apply to older children do not apply to kindergardeners. Good luck!

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R.C.

answers from Sacramento on

There is one key word you mentioned that makes me cringe. If you "ask" a 5 yr old to do something they don't want, you just declared war first. Never ask a child to do anything, tell them they have two choices, describe them, and if they balk tell them the concequence for not obeying. Children often test for limits, and any adult who they think they can beat, Mom or not, they will take advantage of the situation. I have heard lots of arguments about dampening spirit and the like, but honestly in my experience the kids thrive in a world they understand and can predict. Remember, when your little one is being a tyrant, just keep telling yourself "I am the Mommy." and do what you know is right. Best of luck!

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A.H.

answers from Modesto on

I am a firm believer that while it isn't fun to remove toys and clothes and extras from kids, it does work.
I suggest asking his opinion as often as you can about appropriate topics (the ones that dont matter who wins). That may help him feel like he's winning something and encourage his passion for sharing his ideas. :)
When he argues with you or refuses to do what you reasonably ask, take something away explaining that you give him these extras because you love and respect him. And that HIS job is to love and respect you the same. When he doesn't (like now) he will not get to have these extra things.
I currently have taken all of my 5 yr old daughter's dresses and skirts away until March when she turns 6. Trust me, it is PAINFUL for her!
I would not have a problem removing all toys or extras away so that all she had was 2 changes of clothes, books to read, and a bed/pillow/blankets in her room.
Granted, she'd have to be horribly misbehaved to get to that point, but kids have to respect OUR previous experience as kids as well as that having lots of "stuff" is earned.

Best of luck to you!

J.P.

answers from Stockton on

Hi W. ~ My 5 year old daughter does this also - I think that they are too smart for their own good. I have just started telling her that it is not up for discussion. I told her my answer, and it is not going to change, and walk away. I am not going to argue with my 5 year old, I am the boss, not her. She can't argue with me if I am not arguing back.

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K.G.

answers from San Francisco on

For a while we used a large black garbage bag and put all the stuff in it the girls wouldn't pick up. Soon after we started they didn't have many things left. We held onto it for a few days and would give it back. If we held onot it too long they'd forget and it was pointless. We had to do this for a while. But, now when things aren't picked up all we have to do is say "hey can you go grab me one of the black bags?" it immediately causes them to run to pick up. We are big in the tough love department and we have extrememly well behaved children becuase of this. He could be wanting more of your attention also.

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L.S.

answers from San Francisco on

My son (now 13) is the same way. The only thing that works with him is to take away the things he values most. Right now that is computer time so if he acts up I give him a warning and then if he doesn't comply he loses computer time. The more he acts up the more time he loses. If he goes on and on he ends up losing everything (tv, ipod, video games) until all that is left is his bed and a book. (I learned this from watching Dr. Phil, btw). When I am consistent, it works. When I let him negotiate his way out of it, well, you know the end of that sentence! I have had to learn this phrase "this is not a negotiation, here is what's happening..." and repeat it like a mantra. It is still hard but it is effective. Good luck!

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S.W.

answers from Sacramento on

I have learned that little people need to feel that they have a voice too. Compromise is a great tool to teach now. Also voicing that you "hear his frustration" "you understand his anger and appreciate his honesty!" Then---like any good attorney--redirect! Say perhaps if we make a compromise we can both be happy with the outcome! I will help you with 1/3 the mess and you will complete the rest by yourself. Also maybe reinforce how PROUD you and he both will be to accomplish the task. Don't get bogged down in the negative. All of us need to vent. Redirect-Voice Appreciation of the feeling-Compromise-Done! I keep my voice very low and sweet and it really has worked for me 9 years now! Works on husbands too! LOL

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K.M.

answers from San Francisco on

My five-year-old grandson is at the same stage -- the "no!" stage. He enhances it with talking while I'm talking, even if it's just to be making noise over me. It's not about being defiant, it's that they've realized they CAN have a say in things, that they ARE individuals, and therefore they're exercising their "right" to speak their minds. Frustrating as it is for us, it's an essential part of their learning to detach from mommy (or gramma, as the case may be) and explore their individuality. Psychology aside, I have a couple suggestions. Borrowing from Dr. Phil, I determined what my grandson considers his "currency"; what's important to him that, if removed, matters to him. In my grandon's case, it's his hot wheels cars. At five years old, they're old enough to understand limits. If I start counting, my grandson knows it's serious. RARELY have I gotten to "3"; sometimes it's "2", but usualy once I start counting he does what he's been asked to do. Reflect your child's feelings by stating them back to him: "I hear you're angry." "You are upset." Don't try these all at once; pick one, stick with it for awhile, and if it's working, great! If not, try something else. Just don't confuse him by using them all at once.

How does he feel about your new guy? Does your son feel like he has to compete for your time and attention? Evaluate that, too, and good luck!

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C.P.

answers from San Francisco on

Perhaps the divorce and/or new relationship and/or dad has different rules at his house is causing this behavior. He's testing you.

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J.W.

answers from Sacramento on

You can give your child choices. The more choices you give him, the easier it will be later when you want something a certain way, "Don't I give you lots of choices, now it is my turn." Give him the choice, "Would you like to pick up your toys or have me do it?" And if you do it, then the toys go on a high shelf where he can't reach them and doesn't get to play with them. He will learn very quickly to pick up his toys if he wants to continue playing with them the next day. Don't argue with him. And when it comes to getting dressed you could tell him, the car leaves at 7 and show him what 7 looks like on the clock. And leave it at that. If he is not dressed, grab his clothes in a bag and take him to day care in his pajamas (you will want to let his teachers know what your doing so you are all on the same page). Once or twice of that and he might just start getting dressed. He will learn consequences. Resist the urge to say "see what happens when..." Let the consequence to do the teaching. He is very smart and he can figure it out. This comes from Love and Logic, www.loveandlogic.com.

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C.H.

answers from San Francisco on

Does your son feel left out by your "new" guy?
I would.
How can you re-establish trust with your son? Have you thought of haveing a "date" with just him and he does the decision making. There would be established limits, location, budget, time limit. He decides all the events of the day. Try it for once and look forward to the next time, maybe the next month. Way cool quality time for both of you.

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J.P.

answers from San Francisco on

W.
Please read Negotiation Generation - getting back your parental control. My husband is taking his turn reading it now on a business trip so i don't have the author's name. It's a woman. This book saved my sanity, my life and my 3 year old life :)
READ IT!

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M.B.

answers from Modesto on

Try working some kind of choice into your request. "Would you like to pick up your toys or make your bed?" "Would you like to wear your blue pants or your yellow pants?" In other words see if you can find some way for him to feel he is participating in the decision and maybe this will mitigate his defiance.

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L.O.

answers from Redding on

May I suggest "Love and Logic"...it's a parenting course that engages just what u are going thru....you need to just disengage yourself from the arguments...and offer him empathy and then consequences...ex. "it's too bad you don't want to pick up your toys....well, i guess you won't be able to do (whatever you choose to take away)" AND THEN DON'T STRAY FROM THE CONSEQUENCES...STICK TO IT...It's tough but it WORKS...I wish I had taken this course before my oldest was 10!! And then, another KEY i got from this course is when your child continues to argue....ex..."I don't want to, bla bla bla..." Your response, in a calm, yet strong voice should be "I know" over and over (no matter what he says, respond with "I know") Eventually, he'll get sick of you not engaging him in his argument and get the idea that there are consequences if he doens't help.)(take away things that are important to him(time with friends, activities he enjoys, etc) Good luck!

You should definately look up the Love and Logic course in your area!

LO

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R.M.

answers from San Francisco on

I highly recommend the book "1-2-3 Magic". I was skeptical until we tried it (some friends recommended it-- they, like us, have big negotiators too). It's an easy read, actually enjoyable to read! And it TOTALLY works. I know when you're a parent the last thing you want is ANOTHER advice book on parenting...I promise though, you won't be disappointed because you won't be putting so much energy into negotiating that will eventually become yelling, hitting or giving up-- none of which you want, I'm guessing. Good luck-- I know it's tough.

P.S. There's an important distinction the author makes between "stop behaviors" and "start behaviors"...it takes a lot more motivation to get a child to START doing something, and that's where a timer and/or a reward come in handy! Getting them to STOP doing something (obnoxious) when you're NOT willing to negotiate is handled differently. You'll want to work on the STOP behaviors first (like them trying to negotiate when the point is not negotiable). The book tells you exactly how.

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S.G.

answers from San Francisco on

When my children argue with me or question something I told them to do I just tell them "because I said so". It's one of the perks of being the parent. There is no arguing with a rule or order that mom gives. You're the mommy and what you say goes. I read a while back in Parents Magazine that it's okay to do this. If your little one is defiant, he/she can spend some alone time in the bedroom and come out when he/she is ready to be nice. After consistently doing this with my kids they finally get it and know they need to apologize and modify the attitude if they want to come out of their room. It takes consistent behavior on our part and some time but eventually they get it.

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R.M.

answers from Sacramento on

Hi W. - if you are a reader, there are some great books found at gfi.org When our kids were that age, it was a great help to us to understand where they were developing and how to handle in a way to help them gain skills they need for later while still taking control.

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M.B.

answers from San Francisco on

Your 5-year old and my 8-year old should get together! They could sit and argue with each other until they are blue in the face!

We always joke with my son that he would argue that the sky is blue. For him, it is an "inner" competitiveness and a situation where he has to feel that he is always right--even when he knows he isn't.

Lately, rather than getting angry with him for arguing, I point out situations where I, he, or someone else in our family was wrong and how they used that opportunity to learn something new. I have explained to him that sometimes you're right and sometimes you're wrong, but the great thing about being wrong is that you get to learn and grow as a person. He never saw being wrong as a good thing before--and I think he is beginning to understand.

I thought that this was just a stage for him, but really it is just his personality. He is highly intelligent and does great in school--but his teacher has mentioned this issue with me, and she is the one that pointed out the "inner" competitiveness that just comes naturally to him.

Try to see the good in the situation and enhance the "positive" aspects of argument in him....and teach him when it is appropriate to "state your case" and when it is not. I bet he is super smart too and will be able to understand that.

Good luck!

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M.P.

answers from Salinas on

Giving my son fun appetizing choices or racing with him to clean up stuff worked for me. Also when it comes to getting dressed I paid attention at his preferences and depending on the occasion, I would give him two choices of clothing. Just keep in mind if he likes to negotiate let him choose, but everything should be at YOUR convenience. Let him know there will be rewards for good behavior ONLY, not when he demands it.

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L.H.

answers from San Francisco on

I believe this is very common. My 6 year old's Waldorf teacher has been working with us on not asking him to do something, but telling him is a gentle voice("We are picking up our toys now"). Then he doesn't have the opportunity to answer the question with a "no". She has also explained to us that, at this age, children don't have the ability to reason, so keep explanations short. They eventually stop listening to your talk on respect because they can't really absorb it yet. You just say, "this is what we're doing". You may need to help him pick up his toys, even going as far as taking his hand in yours and picking each toy up together at first. Also be aware of what your child is capable of handling at that moment. Maybe you pick up some of the toys now, and the rest in the morning after a good night's sleep. As long as you follow through and don't give in. It's a challenge for sure! Good Luck!!

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J.Z.

answers from Modesto on

Do what I just started doing with my 6 year old when he acts like that. I Take that toy (the one he didn't want to put up) away. I haven't decided whether to give it back or not, but after that, he has started picking up his toys when I tell him. Good luck! :)

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K.A.

answers from San Francisco on

Hi W.,

He sounds like a cute little guy!

I think you should not say no to him very often. Sometimes, parents try to discipline the kids too much. Only punish him or complain to him when it is really necessary.

Also, make sure than when you say "no" you mean it. Don't say "no" and them allow (whatever it is that he is asking for).

One way to encourage kids to do things (like picking up toys) is to race them. (e.g. let's see who can pick up more toys). I sometimes race my son when we brush our teeth. We compete to see who can brush the longest.

On a side note: I admire you for having join custody. Children need both parents! It is great that this kid gets to see his dad 50 percent of the time, and I am sure that gives you time to improve your own personal life.

K

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S.T.

answers from San Francisco on

First off, I know first hand how annoying this behavior is. I have a member of the Future Litigators of America living in my household as well.

That said, I think it is important to reframe the question so you don't lose your mind. When it comes to the arguing, your son does not experience his behavior as defiance. He experiences it as expressing himself. You *want* him to express himself well! This verbal acuity is a good thing.

When we get into these things, it is very easy to go into the "I'm the mommy and I'm in charge and you will do what I say!" mode. As you have discovered, it doesn't work with these kids. what I have learned is to take a step back and use the tools of non-violent communication. I don't know a lot about the technique, but what I do know has saved my bacon.

Ask yourself, "what do I need?". It may be that you need a clean floor or to leave the house in five minutes. Then ask him, "what do you need?". It may be that he needs to finish an art project he started on the floor. He may even just need some foreshadowing. Then together, ask "How can we both get what we need?". Brainstorm ideas. Make it about the task and not about your relationship. Maybe you can bring him clothes and he'll get dressed while finishing his project. Then afterwards he'll pick up his stuff and put it on the table so he can work on it later. What this avoids is twofold: there is no power struggle, and he doesn't feel like he is at the whim of your moods. If you can reframe to expressing needs and not power, there is nothing to rebel against.

Does this take too long? It depends on the capacity of your temper and his persistence. It takes a lot longer to deal with the after effect of blowing your stack and listening to all that arguing. Does it cede your authority? You're still mom, you're just a mom who can separate your need for loving respect from your son's blind obedience. Because in this day and age, I don't want my kids to blindly obey anybody. YMMV.

good luck!

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M.K.

answers from Chico on

With my three year old I tell him it's not a discussion, I tell him what will happen if he doesn't do what I ask, then I do it. If he keeps arguing, I tell him he has 2 minutes to get going, I set the timer, and if whatever isn't done, then he gets the consequence. I am looking forward to other responses, though, because mine seems not to work all the time. Sometimes he just doesn't care if I take a toy away and seems to be challenging me to see if I really will.

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R.C.

answers from Sacramento on

Dear W.,

Go to www.HouseFairy.org and check it out. It is a great system from what I have heard and your son is just the right age. she is santa's sister and after you have checked out the website, have your son watch it too "over your shoulder". I have not heard a bad thing about it yet. Plus a timer works wonders too. Kids try to beat the timer to do chores. Hope this helps!
R.

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K.P.

answers from Bakersfield on

Hi W.,
I deal with these kids all day. You might try to find something that he wants. toy, time with you. When you give him a direction or ask him to do something like can you please pick up your toys....if he starts to argue give him a positive like I if do it you can earn time with mommy. Or you can say I bet I can beat you make it a game. Dont argue back. Just give 2 commands and see how it goes. Let me know
K. P.

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L.L.

answers from San Francisco on

Like most adults, children may respond to any situation changes with feelings of anxiety or insecurity (divorce, parent in a new relationship). These feelings might be expressed in age appropriate behavior. The best thing to do in this situation is to develop a routine and stick closely to it (easier said than done). If your son knows that after he gets up, he has to get dressed, eat breakfast and brush his teeth, eventually he will understand that you expect him to do it every morning that you are with him and arguing is a will not be tolerated (some things have to be done like eating, sleeping and doing chores). In general, Make a visual representation of the daily routine (some toy stores have visual aids) to help re-enforce your message. It may take some 'time-outs' or other strong measures at first to enforce the routine, after a week it should get better. Lots of positive feedback (even special rewards like a bike ride in the park) when he is getting it right will help. Overall, children benefit from constant reassurance that whatever happens, they will still be loved and cherished by their parents.

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M.L.

answers from San Francisco on

With two different sets of household & family rules, schedule and living environments that he has to shift between, your son has to also accept your diverted affection and attention to your new man. It sounds as if he is trying to have some control over something in his life when everything is out of his control by behaving badly. Most children do have a hard time staying on course in a day to do what they need to do and they can get more defiant as they get more independent. When we're trying to get organize and get things done, it's difficult to spend more time, energy, and patience to deal with the challenges that a child contributes to our days. There are different solutions you can use and it sounds as if you have use some. Your son needs to feel as if there is some consistency, love, and positive attention that he can depend on, on a daily basis, if possible. I'm a mom to a full-grown child(adult) and I do remember those child-rearing challanges.

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S.R.

answers from San Francisco on

Interesting dilemma. Here's what I'd do. First, you don't really want to discourage that bright mind from stating his case. At the same time, you are the authority in the household. So, I'd hear him out, acknowledge his point of view, even agree with him when he really "wins the argument." But, I'd also put up a behavior chart which includes his "chores" like putting his toys away, brushing his teeth, whatever your expectations are. Sit down BEFORE it's an issue, in a neutral moment, and explain to him that from now on, he will be earning points (onteh chart) for cooperation. Explain how, when he's a lawyer or a judge, this is an important aspect of human relationship. People need to know how to work together and the learning starts in families. He can even be part of the process of setting up the chart. At first, it's going to cost you a little bit. He gets something for cooperating without arguing...to take the time to listen to an extra song on his favorite CD before going to bed, an extra cookie after school tomorrow...whatever. He gets daily points, a weekly prize, and monthly prizes. i.e. the big prize for cooperating without defiance is a trip to the amusement park or something of his choosing. Let him choose what the big prize is before you start this system so he's got something to visualize and earn towards. You must be absolutely like a machine about this. If he messes up one day, the clock starts over then and there. He'll get the point fast since he's smart. He may even argue with you about it, but you can't cave in. Again, all the rules need to be explained to him ahead of time so that there are no surprises.

Since you are divorced from his father, if you are able to talk to the dad and see if he can generate a similar system, of course, that would be the best thing for your child. Different rules on defiance in different home settings is surely confusing. (or, is he expressing his father's defiance towards you...hmmmm....different track. You need a professional to sort that one out.) If the dad won't do that or you don't want to talk to him about it, don't let that stop you. Kids really do great with boundaries. They like edges. It helps them to feel safe to know where the edges are.

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D.B.

answers from San Francisco on

Hi W.,
I used to teach a class for parent called Parent Effectivness Training. It gave parents communication skills to use with their children to help with situations like yours. I'm not sure if it is still being taught or not. I believe the organization was called Effectivenss Training Inc. I found the techniques very helpful with my son, the children I worked with, and helpful for the parents I taught.
D. Bohr, NCTMB
retired elementary teacher and early childhood teacher
CranioSacral Therapist
Mom and Grandma

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T.S.

answers from Sacramento on

Hi W.,
As a middle school teacher I am faced with defiant/argumentative kids on a fairly regular basis. Although I think it is much easier to be firm when they are someone else's kids (I don't care if they are mad at me... I don't need them to like me, I need them to learn math), I would suggest that you son's negotiating and arguing is about asserting his control in a situation.

Despite what he may insist, you will both be happier and healthier if mom remains in charge. It's important that you stick with your plan in each situation and do not bend to his willfulness. If you tell him to clean up and he shouts that you are "unfair," or "mean" or that he "doesn't want to." Try very calmly saying something like "I'm sorry to hear that, but it is time to clean up. Let's get going."

Negotiations only work if both sides are participating and willing to bend. Try to make it clear through your words and actions that your directions are not suggestions and that you require his cooperation. Try not to engage in his argument at all, just let him know you've hear him (so he doesn't shout it repeatedly) but that he needs to do as you say.

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C.C.

answers from San Francisco on

Hello W.,

There was a time that my 5 year old (now 6) was going through a very rude period. What worked for us initially was saying "That was rude. You are not allowed to speak to me that way. That is strike one." He was allowed to get three strikes and then he was in his room until dinner. That worked beautifully for a while then it got worse and my husband and I developed a zero tolerance for rude behavior. "That was rude. You are not allowed to speak to me that way. Go to your room." These have worked most of the time for us.

And it does pass. And of course then it gets better until something else comes along!

Good luck.

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L.P.

answers from Sacramento on

I am glad to see I'm not the only one with this problem. "This isn't negotiable" That's my favorite saying. I did read somewhere that boys like to negotiate. I try to compromise on somethings...probably to much...but you have to have limits. There are somethings where he doesn't get a say. "Why?" "Because I said so"(Now I sound like my mom.) Good luck to you!

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W.W.

answers from Sacramento on

He's normal. My son is 4 and is a great negotiator! What works for us is a simple, "Because I'm the mommy/daddy and I say so." I hated it when my parents said this, but it works. You just have to say it every single time. We also just instituted chores. He gets a nickel for every chore he does (it equals about $1.00 to $1.50 per week depending on how many he does). They are simple things, but it lets him see what his "work" contributes. It also gives him a chance to buy balloons at the end of the week! Keep it simple and as others have pointed out don't argue with him. It will take time, but when he figures out you don't change your stance, he will.

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B.C.

answers from Visalia on

I have been in your shoes W., and have to say you have some good advice from Lori S. This will work as well with a 5yr old as it does with her 13yr old. I have raised 3 children to maturity and it wasn't all fun and easy. But it has been the most rewarding journey of my life. What ever you decide to do to resolve this problem always be consistent. Always show love, and never give up!
Good Luck
Mrs. C

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A.B.

answers from San Francisco on

ha this is all too familiar, I am definitley coming back to read your suggestions when I can...until then this is what I can tell you. My son is 5 and started kindergarten this year and we have this problem as well. You ask them to do something and its "let me finish...and then I'll do that" or "but....". He has had a bit of a hard time in kinder beacuse of this. The thing is that my harsh reality has been that I am the one helping this behavior along. He needs to know that when you ask him to do something you mean it and its "non-negotiable". Once he learns this well, we can go back and negotiate once in awhile but until then you we must mean what we say ONLY. If its something you really want him to be able to negotiate with then tell him he has these specific choices instead. In kindergarten it has been very hard for my sons teacher since there are 20 kids for her to control not just like my two at home. So when hes saying "first I'll finish what Im doing then I'll do what you say" its not working for her... at all. She constantly has to tell him, in her words- "no yeah, buts". Its frusterating for as all. My first step though was realizing Im a big contributor and changing my own habits with him to help him change his own. Its still in process but its improved for sure. Hope this helps.

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W.G.

answers from San Francisco on

Hi W.,

Actually, you have a very bright child, that's the good thing - he is capable of reasoning and negotiating at age of 5. You just have to be patient and creative to move him into the right direction. I try a few things with my son who does the same things: 1) Be patient and reason with him. Go over his argument all the way to consequences lead by his argument. Show him while it was great what he was thinking or arguing, the consequences are not what he wants. 2) Let him be wrong when you can afford it, but be clear you think he is wrong and predict the bad consequences for him - then let the consequences teach him a lesson that he was wrong. Use this example next time he wants to argue. 3) If he is plain being unreasonable, try to understand why he wants to be unreasonable - usually they are frustrated with something else, perhaps attention? Since you are divorced and in a new relationship. He could feel a bit threatened, and arguing is a way to get your attention, or redirect of his anger or frustration? If that's the case, you will have to show that no mater what you love him, even he is bad, but you'd love him to be a good boy. 4) Take the task with him. Remember the old thing, lead by example. Some times, we just have to show how to do the right thing, regardless the arguments. "Let's do it together" is a great way to start making a good habit.

Good luck.

W.

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M.G.

answers from Sacramento on

My son is 17 months so I have not experienced this yet. But my advise is to cut him off as soon as he tries to argue. You are mom he is the child. The first no or negotiation attempt out of his mouth cut him off and send him to his room or the corner. Make him stay there until he decides to do what you need him to do. I am sure it will be frustrating but if you stick to it every single time, eventually he will learn saying no gets him no where because eventually he will complete the task you initially asked him to do. I am a single mom and sometimes I am just too tired to “fight” with him and I get lazy in my discipline. But I do know when I am consistent our lives are much happier.

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P.W.

answers from San Francisco on

Well, this situation must be causing alot of stress; especially with your new mate. I sympathize with you but I also sympathize with your little boy; after all, he is just a little boy.
Statistics show time after time that children from broken homes are going to have any number of troubling problems for a long time. Fortunately your son is still young enough to work with. Older children are more resistent to change/transition.
Your son may be suffering from separation anxioty when he is away from you and also when he has to leave his dad and return to you. He might be confused about how he is feeling and not able to be reasonable. He may be hearing some negative talk from his dad, you, or your new partner. Your present partner may not have the skills or motivation needed to deal with this argumentive, rebellious lad. Anger (yours, your boys, your mates or your ex's) is normal but also a sign that something needs to change.The challenge is figuring out what that is and how to change it.
However, if you don't stop or diminish your boys poor behavior now it will only accelerate. You may also need to work on your own behavior.
I had four children and a broken marriage.
Some things that worked with my children were: to tell them in no uncertain terms that their behavior was not good when they were acting up. Reinforce their good behavior by noticing it and commenting on it. Oten we parents tell our kids what not to do but don't tell them what to do instead. Tell him often what you want from him. Don't get drawn into any long explanations or discussions when his behavior is inappropriate, he may be 'feeding' on any kind of attention he can get , even negative attention. In fact I was really amazed, especially by my five year old, how much more attention they all needed. Sometimes it seemed I just could never give them enough attention. Keep trying. Positive attention if given enough will keep negative attention seeking behavior away.
Ignore him for awhile. His need to be recognized and paid attention to will be a great motivating factor for him to start behaving. Keep on giving time outs.Be pleasant when he comes out again. Generally the accepted rule of thumb is one minute per year of child. After that tell them they may join you or the group and try again. If you are consistent it will get easier with time. Even young children can be master manipulators, be on your gaurd.Don't get trapped in behavioral triangles between your child, yourself and another person (mate, or dad).Don't argue in front of your child. Not only does it teach the skill of arguing but it is distressing for a child and may cause more problems.Don't become engaged in power struggles. YOU are the boss, not your boy. He can become equal when he grows up. With privileges are responsibility and he may be too young to be responsible about much. Remember that you are the parent. Your child needs a parent more than a friend. Make your expectations clear, reiterate.
Break chores up. Reward him with small increments of fun times after a chore. Be consistent.
Remember how much you love your little boy, he will be grown up before you know it. You are training him to have better behavior because you love him. Improved behavior equals a happier life for your boy.
Good Luck.

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A.A.

answers from San Francisco on

I feel for you. I live with a little negotiator and have often felt frustrated and angry by this behavior.
The things that have worked best for us are: consistency. even when it doesn't seem to be working! state your limit (i.e. what he may not do, needs to do, what he may chose from) and then stick with it. When he negotiates, firmly state that you are not going to discuss this furthur.
On the other side of the coin, be sure he's getting lots of attention from you and fun play times. Sometimes my child's worst negotiation sessions come when I've been pretty busy with other things, am in a rush, etc. and I suspect that the unpleasant negotiating is probably one of the ways that he engages with me.
Finally, some good advice that came my way, is to take a deep breath and really think about what's being asked before you say yes or no to a child's request. Then, stick with your answer and perhaps the number of negotiation sessions can be reduced in this way.
I think you are on the right track with suspecting this to be a normal phase, so I think the mantra: remain fair and consistent (yet flexible)! will help you both emerge on the other side in good company.

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P.R.

answers from San Francisco on

Well, I'd love to tell you they outgrow it, but I truly think part of it is personality. I have two kids - daughter, 13, and son, 9. My daughter has ALWAYS been like that, and I too think she has a bright, shiny future in law. I know I always tried to avoid the "because I said so, that's why!" argument, but sometimes, you really have to lay down the law and tell them that things are not always up for discussion and end the conversation there. I know someone who took their 4 year old daughter to school (not me, I swear!)in her pajamas because she refused to get dressed - would the threat of something like that be enough for him to do as you ask? I think sometimes we give kids too many choices, so they then think that they have a "choice" where all decisions are concerned.
Good luck!

PR

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K.V.

answers from San Francisco on

Well, I'll give you suggestion #36 but maybe you've already read all you need. My 7 year old son is the same way & has been for quite some time. Like everyone else, being consistent w/expecations of him & the consequences is key. But I would also advvice you to not engage him. Just very simply & firmly state that he needs to do whatever was asked of him or 'X' will happen. Don't get into why he has to clean up or do whatever it was you asked him to do as this just helps him avoid whatever it is he was asked to do which is why he started the discussion in the first place. We also feel that at times we're too punitive w/our son & get into this negative cycle so if you feel the same way, I suggest you start a star/reward chart of some kind & every time you catch him doing something postive, give him a star. And I mean everything, even the most mundane of things like throwing something in the garbage. Start off lavishing him w/praise for these small things & then hopefully, he'll want to keep getting the praise & will start doing more things w/o arguing. Set a goal of how many star/stickers you expect him to get & them come up w/a reward. We encourage our son to want rewards of special outings or activites w/myself or my husband instead of tangible items. Most of his rewards are activites w/me since he & I don't get much time alone together. He'll choose things like going bowling, to the movies or to a pottery studio, a bike ride, playing tennis or raquetball. Some of these do cost money but they're things that we enjoy doing & really what he wants is my time which is probably also the case w/your son. Hope this helps & good luck.

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R.M.

answers from San Francisco on

Boy, does that sound familiar. Let me just say that if you don't nip this in the bud, it'll just get worse. Basically, he's discovered that he's more powerful than you and you need to take your power back. Find something that WILL make a difference to him (a favorite toy or activity). Then, when he refuses to pick up his toys (for example), you say "You can pick up your toys without losing your GameBoy for a week, or you can pick up your toys AND lose your GameBoy for a week. Which do you choose?" A lot of kids really respond when they feel like they're making the choice to behave. But you have to be sure that whatever punishment you offer is meaningful to him AND you have to be sure to follow through with it TO THE LETTER or Mr. Negotiator will see an opening for future opportunities.

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