House Guest with 5 Year Old That Hits and Says Awful Things

Well if this child was in my home and the mother did not appropriately discipline him then I would. My home, my rules, and that includes guests. I suppose if she doesn't like it she can go stay somewhere else. I just wouldn't allow that kind of behavior in my home.

Definitely they need to stay elsewhere.
I wouldn't have that kid in my home nor his Mom for the enabling of his behavior.
This is what hotels are for.

I don't think you're overreacting, but I do think you're underestimating the impact and authority that you will have in your own home.

A kindergarten age houseguest in my home is under the authority of every adult in the house. If mom steps out of the room and little Timmy says "I'm going to kick your teeth in" or takes a swing, you can darn well bet I'm not going to wait for his mommy to come back and say anything. I will grab that wrist, get on eye level, and very sternly let him know that "We do not hit people in my house. We do not say mean things in my house. You will not do it again, do you understand?" And then wait for a "yes."

If he claims he's wanting to be a superhero, explain to him that superheroes HELP people, they don't hurt them. If he wants to be a superhero in your house, he has to be a helping hero.

As for his mother...I don't ask for permission from someone's parent to enforce the rules in my home....and, interestingly enough, troublesome children ALWAYS respect me.

I wouldn't ask they stay elsewhere, but I would be very lovingly stern with the child from the start so he knows where his boundaries are. Once a child like him knows his boundaries, the rest of the time will be a breeze.

well, you brought it up to her, then 'pressed'- what sort of response did you anticipate? shocked horror? a promise to lock her kid in a closet?
5 year olds can certainly be monsters, and i too would be gritting my teeth at the prospect of having a particularly aggressive one in my home. but i suggest that seeing him 2 months ago during a particularly nasty phase doesn't indicate a nasty kid. how would you feel if someone took a snapshot of your child during a bad moment and then extrapolated terrible parenting from that?
of course she's concerned. she's getting ready to bring her little boy into a house where he's clearly unwelcome. i'd be defensive too. you already said he's never threatened your daughter, but you've already relegated your child to the role of victim.
i too think she should stay elsewhere. you've primed the pump for confrontation. now every change in the boy's voice inflection will be suspect.
if you do have them come stay, calmly share with her the house rules you have for YOUR child (no hitting, use your voice not your hands etc) and ask if that works for her. don't tell her how her failed parenting isn't working.
khairete
S.

If he comes to stay, I would welcome him and mom and before any playtime happens, get down to his level (like on your knee), look him in the eyes, and tell him that you love that he's come to visit, and you know he is a good guy and will play nicely with your daughter. Then tell him "our playtime rules for our house are that we only use nice words and if we have trouble with each other we never hit or push, we always tell an adult".

Repeat as necessary.

ETA: And I don't really think there's anything wrong with asking them to find other accommodations, but I would come up with a reason beyond 'your 5 year old said some things I didn't like', just to preserve peace within the family and not make his mom feel hurt.

2 months ago, when you saw him, what were the circumstances? Were you at Grandma's house where everyone was behaving nicely and having dinner, or were you at a park where the kid had already had 2 cotton candies and 6 hot dogs, surrounded by other kids playing on playground equipment? Had he been cooped up in a car for a long long ride? In other words, could the kid possibly have been overwhelmed or egged on by other kids?

Is this family member someone with whom you generally interact well, and whom you know well, or is this a distant 2nd cousin who's staying at your house for convenience while they visit a tourist attraction or theme park?

Will they be hanging out at your house all day, swimming in your pool and eating all meals with you, or will they spend their day being tourists on their own, coming back to your house for showers and sleep?

Are you going to be expected to provide meals for them?

I'd take these things into consideration. If this family is going to be a part of your household for a few days, interacting at length and using your pool and home and tv and play room, and if this is a family you expect to see at family events regularly, I'd consider letting them come, but I'd post some House Rules first (use kind words, never go to the pool without a parent, sit at the table for meals instead of wandering around, no hitting or kicking, no touching the Xbox without permission, no open soda cans in the living room, etc). Don't be too restrictive, but just some basic commonsense rules, and point them out to everyone (don't single out the kid) when they arrive. Mention that they're for everyone's safety. And I'd give them the benefit of a 2nd chance and give the kid a chance to demonstrate that he can behave with guidance.

If you're basically just providing hotel services and won't see them during the day, well, I guess you have to decide whether that's a precedent you want to establish.

Why would you invite someone with a kid that hits your kid and is disrespectful to you to stay with you? Rescind the invitation by any means necessary.

Frankly, hitting by a 5 year old should not be allowed without correction. Yes, 5 year olds do lash out, but they need to be reminded not to hit, and then removed from the situation.

One thing you can do is sit down with the 5 yr old and his parents and explain the house rules at the very beginning.

"Every house has different rules.... your mommy's rules at your house are different than the rules at my house. When you are at my house, please remember that we do not hit each other, or say mean things. If you want to run around or jump, you need to do that outside. That is an outside activity, not an inside activity. If you have problems remembering these new rules, we will remind you gently. If you keep doing __________, you will have to sit down for a while and not play, or you might lose some other privilege."

Be sure to let your house guest know ahead of time what the expected house rules are.

All children need to learn boundaries. He needs to learn that there are different rules in different places.

You are well within your rights at YOUR house what the expected behavior should be.

And yes, boys are often different than girls... but that does not excuse poor behavior, especially toward a 2 year old.

I like the idea also of explaining that superheroes are there to HELP people... not hurt them.

(That is one reason I didn't let my son watch things like Ninja Turtles or Power Rangers when he was young..... we watched Barney and stuff like that instead.)

Fortunately, this is just for a couple of nights... hopefully you can help prevent any situations.

They need to stay elsewhere.

I agree with those who say my house, my rules. Be clear ahead of time that you won't tolerate hitting, name calling, etc. and let your friend know if she has a problem with that she should probably stay somewhere else.

This could either be a disaster, or it could be a learning experience for everyone. It kind of depends on how defensive this family member is and what might happen if you are all in the room together when things occur. I can't tell if the things the 5 year old said and did were in front of his parents the last time - did they hear him say he wanted to kick your teeth in and did they see him hitting? If they saw it and did nothing, that's one thing. If they weren't in the room and they think you are exaggerating, that's a different problem. There may be legitimate reasons to support your parenting style, and other reasons for theirs. Probably the answer is somewhere in the middle. If I saw a 5 year old hitting my 2 year old, my instinct would be to climb all over him. But I'm not sure that's always successful and I don't think it teaches the 2 year old how to deal with anything. An energetic 5 year old with a big imagination vs. a 2 year old who may be timid is a tough match-up in anyone's book.

Being a super hero is fine, but I don't know which super hero hits toddlers. So you can (and should) be in the room all the time and watch what happens. You can remove your 2 year old every single time the older child hits or is way too rough. You can say something like "We're going to take a walk" or "take a break in our room until things calm down." Then scoop up your child and her toys and leave the room. You can also just bring your child close to you and see what the other child's mother does.

You can also engage him if he says he's a super hero and ask him what that hero does. Maybe you can point out that the super hero helps children and good people and doesn't hit and kick. If he says he wants to kick your teeth in, you can ask "Why?" Just look at him and get him to explain it to you, if you can do that without reprimanding. If he persists, you take away the attention he's getting from you and from anyone else - you leave the room, not in a huff, but for something better to do (the kitchen always needs cleaning, there's mail to bring in, etc.). Sometimes taking away the attention is the best technique for dealing with a child looking for more. The mother will hopefully get the message and will step in. The downside is if she thinks your child (or you) needs to toughen up and just take whatever he dishes out.

Otherwise, you can draw a line in the sand now and suggest they stay elsewhere, which means there is going to be expense somewhere (you pay or she pays), and probably some tension. If you have already agreed to them staying with you, then you probably should give it a try. If he has not done anything to your daughter, you as an adult can certainly take care of yourself. But I would be in the same room for sure in as relaxed a way as possible, at least until something happens.

I don't think it's entirely normal for a 5 year old to tell an adult - I'm going to kick your teeth in, so I don't think that's necessarily "normal" boy behavior, especially when you combine it with him hitting everyone. However, you don't have a boy, so you may be unaware of how physical boys can be, in a way that really is different from girls.

If they had different accommodations last time, why can't they do it again, so this visit can be pleasurable for all?

Kids are super intelligent. They learn very quickly what is acceptable in all situations, even at the age of 5. My mom had a rule growing up and every one of my cousins knew it - "wash your hands before you touch anything at Aunty Al's". They all knew the rule, even at 2 years old my cousin Sheldon would say...wash hans, wash hans...

There is a 6 year old autistic boy that my daughters babysit. When he comes here he knows that yelling, banging and grabbing are not allowed. Even he, with his disability, knows the difference. When he arrives we say, "what do you know about this house James?" and he says, "quiet voice, hands off and play nice". It really can be that simple.

It is your home, you set the rules. Let the mom know of your boundaries.
There is no hitting, no threatening, no "super hero" rough housing etc.
If she does not like the rules, she can stay else where. Guests are guests. Yes be polite, offer them stuff, but NEVER let go of what you believe in or what you are feeling even for a few days because they are family. You will always resent it.

it is your home, your family, your rights.

B.

I get that every family and kid are different and some children are more challenging than others. If I could not trust a 5 year old around my 2 year old, in my house, I would kindly suggest to the other family that they find other accomidations while they where in town this would include family or friends. It is not to be mean but the safety of my child is important espically in our home.

He should not be hitting, but 5 year olds still do lash out occasionally. They are also still experimenting with the effect their words have on people. She has every right to decide how to discipline (the word means teach, not punish) her child and if she feels that talking to him and reminding him is what he needs, then that is how she will handle it. I personally think time outs are a worthless and punitive measure that don't teach kids to internalize rules, just to stew at the punisher. So I wouldn't advocate that either. Removing him from a situation that he can't handle well - seems like a great idea and I can't imagine she would object to that.

When my son was two, he was NEVER anywhere out of an adults' sight except when he was in his crib. Way too many things he could get into, onto or out of. So supervising any interactions would not have been an issue for us.

I don't see why your daughter would be a victim. My son was very boisterous with his age mates when he was 5 (always running, jumping, climbing, racing, not hitting) but was very gentle with littler ones (helping them, picking up their toys, making sure no one was on the slide before they went). IMO, interactions between 2s and 5s should always be observed. I think it takes a very mature 5 to have the patience for a persistent toddler - they (the 2 year old) want what they want NOW and haven't mastered taking turns or mine and not mine (although learning to treat littler people gently is a great lesson). Also, you can't really expect a 5 year old to comprehend which of their toys constitutes a choking hazard to a toddler.

You are absolutely within your rights to ask her to stay elsewhere. If you do, you should let her know immediately, so she can plan accordingly.

I suggest that this visit is happening at a significantly later time and under different circomstances than the previous experience. Therefore I would accept them staying with you. Keep in mind past behavior and have a plan for what you'll do if he's inappropriately aggressive. At the same time treat this as an opportunity to have a different experience.

I suggest that you may have gotten the seemingly unconcerned response from this mother because You didn't talk directly about what happened before. Sounds like you may have worded the conversation in a way that felt like criticism to her or in a vague way so she didn't understand what you wanted from her. This post sounds like you want her to use different parenting skills. Know that how she parents does not matter. What matters is how you state and enforce your boundaries. I suggest it's best to start calm and low key.

I would not have a formal, focused sit down about your house rules. Instead describe expected behavior as play happens. When we lecture we set the stage for trouble. You could casually say close to beginning of visit that these are your house rules. Give him the benefit of the doubt. Expect him to behave. Expect his parents to be in control. I suggest that the visit is more likely to be successful if you expect success. Deal with each situation as it arises.

Your daughter will be fine. If she does seem to be taking on a negative attitude take care of it when it happens. She is not going to be hard core in two days.

As for your two year old, you need to monitor what goes on with him anytime he's in a new situation. Also, if this nephew is aggressive during this visit you then have reason that will make sense to his mom for you to keep the two separated. Enlist her help. Make this about the two of you supervising children. You don't need to agree with her form of discipline. Your role is to manage your children. If that means keeping the children apart that is ok.

Yes, this may be a stressful visit. But then again it may not. Much of what will make it stressful is in your attitude. Focus on what works for you and your family. Suspend judgment of the other mother's parenting. After this visit you will have a better understanding of that family's dynamics and how they fit with yours. If you decide to not have them stay again you can truthfully say that a visit will not work for you. You can decline a visit gracefully after having give it a try without having the rest of the family feel your judgment. The focus is on what works for your family instead of what doesn't work with the other family. This is a subtle and important difference.

I agree that that boys are different then girls and sometimes my boys say things to each other and other kids that they shouldn't, but they don't hit. That being said, whether this kid is actually violent or not isn't really the issue here. Your perception is that he could be a threat to your daughter so it will not be an enjoyable visit for you or your guest. Just politely ask them to stay in a hotel where you can visit with each other on your terms so that everybody is more comfortable.

If they are to stay in your home, you have to make your house rules very clear to the child.
"You may be able to behave this way at home, but not in my house."
Be very firm on house rules and do NOT allow them to be broken.
I've been through this, it's not fun, and it's not easy, especially at first.
If you think it's going to be too difficult for you to handle, then maybe it would be better if they stayed somewhere else.

I'd like to see an update from you about what you and and aren't willing to do here..

Several people have suggested exactly what I would recommend -- the guests stay in a hotel or don't come -- but I can't tell from your post if you are going to be willing to get that tough with this relative. Are you?

Also, if they are coming in "a few weeks" you are close to, or already past, the window of opportunity to contact this person and tell her (not ask, tell) that you are e-mailing her a list of local hotels with contact numbers. If you are going to consider telling her she can't stay with you, you need to do it now. As in, today. Or the resentment and anger she WILL show will be even worse.

Because...she is going to be very angry and will interpret this as your criticizing her son. And you have to be tough enough to take that. You ARE criticizing her son -- and he deserves it. So does she, frankly, because her lenient and defensive ways mean she's raising a kid who is going to be in a heap of constant trouble very soon; I pity his kindergarten teacher and classmates if mommy is this far gone on "boys will be boys" and "gentle reprimands" for the words and behaviors your describe.

If you do plan to say, "I would like to see you and Son, but I am asking you to stay in a hotel," you must be prepared in advance to tell her why. Script what you will say or type, very carefully. Be totally prepared to have her go ballistic on you. Be prepared to have her say, "Well, we won't come visit, and we never will again after this" or even to curse you out. You need to be aware that she may say just that, and this stand on your part may cost you this relationship with her. If she is important in your life now or is a close relative you will run into again and again and again over the years at family functions -- you may need to consider carefully whether you want to end this relationship right now (which sending them to a hotel could do) or end it when you give her son a time out.

I think I would still vote for telling her that since the kids are at such different ages and stages, it is best if they stay elsewhere so the visiting time can be less stressful. But if you are reluctant to do that, then you must plan a LOT for handling this child for these couple of nights.

Enlist your husband or significant other or whoever else is in your home. Keep the kids VERY occupied all the time -- limit or just ensure there is no down time where the two kids are expected to "just go play so the grown-ups can talk/make dinner/whatever" and have an adult with this boy at all times. It will be stressful and if you do this, I would be sure never to issue another invitation to stay with you afterward.

It's doable to have them in your home but you must, must, must be willing to tell her simply and with a smile at the very start, "Our house has our rules, and we do use time outs and removal to stop hitting and to nip certain language in the bud. If you're not willing for Billy to be put by me or Husband into time out, or to be removed to another room, then we understand that, but it would break our house rules for kids, and we'd need you and Billy to think hard about either following those rules or maybe staying in a hotel and meeting up at other places for your stay.
"

The mom's response is typical of an enabler, or someone in denial. Instead of saying "thanks for letting me know, I had no idea, I will speak to him about it and make sure he understands his behavior will not be tolerated" she got defensive, made some lame excuse and blamed you for being naive and not knowing that this behavior is "normal" for boys...and no, it is not normal for kids to tell people, especially adults (who they need to learn to respect), that they want to bash in their teeth. That kid sounds like he has some unresolved anger issues and would benefit from a therapist.

Honestly, not only would I not want her and the child in my house (risking that he will threaten, hurt, or rub off his bad habits on my kid), but if she is going to keep up that snarky attitude and not own up to mistakes, I would want to distance myself from her as well. A decent person tries to acknowledge fault and find a solution. They would thank you for pointing out an issue and allowing them to make a change, and would not instead make it seem as if YOU are the one with the problem! If she does not want to discipline her child and will constantly make it seem like I am sensitive and blowing things out of proportion, I just would not want her as my friend and although I would still be cordial and amicable, I would not go beyond that nor invite them over and have them around my child.

Stay elsewhere. Sorry, but in my book, any kid who tells adults that they 'want to kick their teeth in' is not a kid playing superhero, it's a kid who needs some direct attention and discipline.

There are kids who play rough but listen well to adults and kids who just haven't been taught to respect adults. Sounds like mom is complacent and isn't going to do much. While we can debate effective methods of discipline, I have seen kids 'work' their parents into believing that anything other than a 'honey, we don't do that now' is going to be cataclysmic to the child. This is just about the worst parenting to be around because the child often repeats the exact same behavior and nothing changes. To me, this this is madness and I have left more than one playdate early because of witnessing that sort of 'non discipline'.

I believe that there are all sorts of typical, "age appropriate" behaviors and that we also, as parents, are supposed to help our children move past some of the less-desirable ones. Any child's right to 'be a kid' ends where another person's body begins, esp. if there's hitting going on. I'd feel like I could let this woman parent how she wanted, but not in my own home.