At Wits End - Sandy,UT

Hit the book store - Bookies is great. The Berenstein Bears are what you are looking for. They have a book on tantrums and just about everyother behavior challenge you can think of. The kids enjoy the stories and respond really well to them. Little Critter is good too.

I also read Parenting with Love & Logic & had a hard time. Then I read the one specifically for ages Birth to Six Years - SOOO HELPFUL!!! I've tried the methods & my kids have had a complete transformation. I've raised my voice once in the 5 weeks since I started trying it. If you haven't given that book a chance, I would HIGHLY recommend it!!!!

I really don't have any advice for you, except I can empathize with you. The other day, my oldest was gettting new glasses and my youngest who is three started pulling my hair and not letting go. She has never done this before, and the lady who was helping us, kept giving me the evil eye. I know that my youngest was screaming for attention too, and as soon as we got down the road, she was fast asleep. I think it was just a new enviorment, and she was tired and didn't know how to control her jelousy of her sisters attention. What is a parent to do when good kids don't know how to act and then act inapropertly at the worst possible time?

my kids are 6, 4 and 15 mos and let me tell you I have definitely been there. It can be very embarrassing, but most mothers will tell you they have been there too! It can be especially hard by yourself with no way to isolate the instigator. That being said, in those cases I would just excuse myself, gather them and leave. The teacher will usually gladly give you the info you need another time. After you have them in the car and somewhat calmed down, explain to them that behaving that way is not OK and that every time they act up like that you will leave. Then at the shoe store, I would do the same thing. It can be a hard thing to do but if you follow through just once or twice they'll know you mean business. Chances are the behavior is just due to school starting and their routine shifting. You'd be surprised how the littlest things can throw a child off. As far as at home is concerned, the real key is follow through. My kids know if I say something will happen if they misbehave, that it will happen. Now, my kids are not the best on the block for sure, but all you can do is your best. Besides, having the best behaved kids would be boring!
HTH
A.

no discipline ideas here, but i'd recommend "how to talk so your kids will listen and listen so your kids will talk" it's more of a precautionary book than a discipline book. good luck. it's so frustrating when our kids act crazy in public because we take it personally and believe that people are judging us at mothers because we feel our childrens' behavior is a reflectiong of our success as parents. . .argh!!!

There were 13 of us in my family. all within 20 years. My mom was fantastically consistent in the public behavior department. If we were unruly or didn't listen during a meeting when she couldn't take control because of how public the situation was when we got home we sat with our arms folded for the amount of time the meeting was supposed to have been. At the grocery store she would say If you don't stop....(whatever) behavior you will spend 15 minutes practicing respect and reverence. I don't think I had to sit after the age of 4...that is the last time I remember having been in a meeting and running around and having to sit at home afterwards to practice. I asked my mom why I had to do it and she said Obviously you need the practice so we practice at home.
It worked. We attended sabbath meetings all together and sat on our pew and people always asked how my parents could have so many reverent children.
we practiced.
consistency was the key, whatever method you use or I use or any mom uses it has to be consistent even when we are tired or hungry or worn out--we aren't perfect, and some days are rough on all of us.
as for it being disprespectful...they are kids, anyone who has any knows that they are little people with minds of their own and even the best behaved kids have bad days. so my advice, let go of the past and decide on a path that works for you and your kids. Your 5 and 3 year olds are old enough to talk with you about being respectful and reverent and helping to decide what consiquences they will have if they don't behave appropriately--have a family meeting maybe bring up what happened and ask them to tell you why you were upset and if they were the mommy what would they do? Kids are pretty smart you may be surprised at what comes out of them.

Hi K.,
The best thing no matter how hard is follow through. You have to be consistent, follow through with whatever punishment you have set up, ie. time outs are good at these ages, 1 min. per age of child, 3 year old has a 3 min. time out, and then positive reinforcement. Kids push to see what they can get away with and the more they get away with the more they try to do. Time outs are hard at first and that is when you have to stick to it. Have a specific chair that is the 'thinking chair' where the child has to sit during the time out. If they get up they get put back, if they cry, they cry, that's part of it. Have a timer so when their time out is over they can hear the timer go off. Once the timeout is over, give a high five or a hug and move on. Have things for them to do when you go to meetings, toys, coloring books..., if they misbehave then put them in a time out in the hallway or outside, talk them individually about their behavior and what you expect and how proud you are when they do behave. We have conversations in the car before we go in places, if it is a store then we set up whether they get to purchase something and how much they can spend ahead of time or if they can't purchase anything, that way it isn't a conversation in the store, tell them before going to a party or gathering exactly what is expected of them. We forget they don't know how to act until we teach them. When they have the infor immediately before and event it helps and they start responding to the positive reactions from you instead of the negative. It all starts with your follow through, hard at first but it gets easier fast.
Good luck and have fun,
SarahMM

Wow, we are so much alike! I've been married 7 years and have daughters, 5 and almost 4 and a little boy who is 2 1/2.

Is this relatively new? We've been noticing a TON of behavior issues due to our oldest starting Kindergarten and our middle starting preschool. They have all been acting out... a lot! I think they are overwhelmed with the newness of everything and all the sudden schedules we are on. Previously, we had pretty lazy days filled with playdates, naps, leisurely lunches, etc. Now, I feel like a drill sergeant as we have to be IN the car at certain times, AT the table for specific amounts of time, uniform on, hair done, the right shoes on, etc etc etc.

We are trying to take some time with each child this weekend and let them relax and talk and play alone with a parent.

We don't follow any particular discipline regimen, but are huge fans of time out, first time obedience and we pray with our kids...a lot! I hope things get better for you. Try to relax and realize this, too, is probably a phase. We are in the thick of something new and it takes kids time to adjust!

A book I read when my children were little that helped tremendously was 1-2-3 Magic by Thomas Phelan. Yes, it uses counting but that wasn't the main focus for me. The important part was how you use it. First, you create really clear rules with a really clear consequence. Then, when you use the counting you simply count 1, then restate the rule and consequence, then shut up. It was the shutting up that helped me to start removing myself from the emotional battle that would usually ensue. On 3, they simply receive the consequence, no argueing, no convincing, no pleading. Of course, sometimes I struggled with creating an appropriate consequence, but with some practice and creativity, it got easier.

I also learned not to hesitate in removing my children from a situation such as a meeting or being in the store. The great thing about children is how fast they learn. I had to leave an entire cart full at the store one day because my youngest just lost it and I picked him up and just left the store. (He was screaming the whole way out of the store, I just stayed really quit, stuck him in his car seat, and drove home. Even the other two were completely silent.) He got the message loud and clear and I never had a severe incident with him again. Yes, it may be terribly inconvenient such as leaving a school meeting, but it will only take one or maybe two times generally (if you can be very consistent).

Another thing I learned was to be more prepared when I went anywhere with the kids. They each had tiny backpacks that we packed their favorite type of toys, paper, crayons, etc. These stayed packed and they only played with those toys when we went somewhere. I also made sure I had little snacks, such as animal crackers, and water everywhere I went. Again, at first it seemed hard to always remember everything in the rush of getting three kids and myself out the door, but it really made a huge difference and it became motivating to be prepared when I walked out the door.

Hope some of my experience will be helpful. :)

I have 2 boys ages 5 and 3. They often act like you just described, and it stresses me out and makes me an emotional wreck when it is happening. But, after the fact, or from the out side looking in, I think their behavior is somewhat normal. I think you can only expect kids of this age to sit still and quiet for so long. Maybe talk in the car on the way about what kind of behavior you expect. If you threaten discipline, follow through! In that particular situation, I may have taken them out of the room and given time outs in the hall way, or something.

Hi,

I have the same ages, 5, 3, and 1. This summer was insane! But I just finished reading a book that I loved! It's Setting Limits with your strong-willed child. It helped me pinpoint what I was doing that wasn't working. I, too, was in despair after screaming at my kids for the um-teenth time. This book totally takes care of it. I also didn't like the Love and Logic books very much. They seemed a little too harsh at points. But this book incorporates several different methods in a very simple, easy manner. The main point is to state a clear message and then move directly to action because they are just collecting data to test you and see what you will really do. (there's a lot of good stuff in the book, though.) Good luck!

Have you tried 1, 2, 3, Magic? It's better than the other one. I also told the kids how I wanted then to behave before we went into the store, church, school or whatever. If I gave them the rules. They behaved better. Sometimes, I reward with a toy from the local $ store. I wouldn't reward them every time. Also, I would be prepared to tell them that if they don't behave that they were going to leave the store. Then, follow through. Consistancy is the key. Good luck!!!

I know back to school night is important, but if your kids are disrupting everything, you just have to get up and leave. It isn't fair to you, the other parents, or the teacher. Also, just picking up and leaving when they behave like that will show them that they cannot get away with it. Do you ever put your youngest in a stroller? My son just turned 2, and I find that he does best in a stroller if I am in a situation where I don't want him running around. You could also bring activites for kids, like coloring books or quiet toys. That way you can keep them entertained while you do what you need to at functions, whether it is back to school night, or something else. The same goes for shoe shopping. If the kids are out of control, just leave. COme back another time, and make sure that you tell them ahead of time what your expectations are, and if they misbehave, you are going. If your kids are anything like mine, they won't want to leave without their new shoes, so they might behave. If not, leave. Etc. It is a big pain for you now, but so worth it in the long run! Kids need to learn how to behave in public. My kids are pretty good in the store, but they have had their moments. I have had to leave in the middle of shopping when they misbehaved. THat has only happend 2x, so they do get the idea fast. Hang in there!

When my kids have done this... I calmly and firmly warn them thay we will have to leave. If they continue then I excuse us from the situation and leave. We do not do anything fun. Generally we would come home and have quite time. No toys, tv, snacks etc. I explain to them that what they did was mean (a word 2 and 3 year old know) and the other mommies were not happy having to listen to them.

It is hard to have little ones that mis-behave, but what ever you choose to do you will need to stick to your guns. If they detect you slipping they will start all over.

Just keep in mind this will pass.

My oldest son, who's 4, had similar problems. When he was in preschool last year his teacher was using a "choice" method. She would ask him "Is that a good choice?" Kids at that age know when they're making a good or bad choice. Even my 2 year old can now tell me if his choice is a good one. Then I use timeouts for bad choices. We also have apple and lemon words (more preschool lingo). Things like please and thank you are apple words. Stupid and shut up are lemon words. I've been called by my 4 year old for saying lemon words. The choice thing has really been helpful. It stops him and he thinks about what he's doing. It also gives them some power which they like. Good Luck

Hi K.,
Something that helps my 3 year old is when I explain what will be happening before we get to the situation. When we are in the car and driving to the place we are to be I say things like this "We are going to grandma's house. Make sure you give grandma a kiss and a hug. You may play outside or inside with toys. Please don't touch grandma's knick-knacks." Then I will quiz her: "Where are we going? What can you give grandma when you get to her house? What can you play with? What are you not allowed to touch?"

When I explain what we are doing and what she is supposed to do or not do, it seems to help a lot. She understands her boundaries and keeps to it well. You could also take this driving time to explain consequences of good and bad behavior. Have a reward that they can achieve for good behavior.

Also, when you are out in public, show and tell them what they can do while you are out. "You can play in this area" or "You can look at this book right here."

Hey K...

Listening to your situation made me think two things..One-thankgoodness I am not the only one that has had things like that happen..and Two-Have you been listening and respecting your kids lately?

The reason I ask this..is because this is the exact thing my best friend/ counselor asked me when i went to her with a very simular situation. I told her that my kids don't listen to me, and that they don't respect me. She then asked..when was the last time you really sat down and listened to them? Do you respect them? You don't have to respect them like they are adults..you need to respect them that they are human beings with desires, wants, needs, wishes, etc. So often I would treat them like they were appendages of me. I would haul them around like "luggage" to this place or that..Just because they were smaller than me doesn't make there needs and wants less important.

I took her advise and stopped...slowed down.. and started to listen. (I thought I was before..but the actions and attitudes showed differently). I realized that after I would validate there needs and thoughts..they felt heard. It doesn't change things over night..but it has OVERALL changed my entire family dynamic. Just think of it this way. Imagine you were your little one running around and bumping into people "out of control." What was it that child was feeling. Probably needed attention negitive or positive..If that was you..what is it you were trying to express? Give that child what they need in a positive way..
I hope this advice helps a little. I know as soon as I applied it..it helped me a ton. Good luck, and know that your children came to you because you were the one that was supposed to be there mother..no one else.

hey you!! don't be so h*** o* yourself!! this happens to the best of us. and i applaud you for taking three kids to back to school night in the first place. (i usually leave mine at home)my kids are 14 & 10 girls and 7 & 3 boys so i can relate. they are simply testing the consequenses. like you can't yell at them in public???? no matter where you go let them know how you want them to behave before hand and how much you will appreciate it. i would give your 5 year old a little pep talk before hand to let her know that if she is good and follows directions that the other two will follow what she is doing. i also carry an emergency baggie in my purse (diaper bag) just in case. i have dum dum suckers and bubble gum. this will keep them busy for a moment. and hopefully quiet too.

to show them how you felt give a little of their own medicine....... when they ask you for something at home turn up the tv or radio like you didin't hear them at all. and if they continue to talk, start to sing uncontrollably as if you didn't hear them at all. they too will get very frustrated and upset just like you did. so even if it is luch time and they don't see you getting their lunch ready it won't hurt them to wait. this is tried and true . it worked for me and i still have to remind them if you don't listen to me i wont listen to you. i hope this helps out and you will get what you want. good luck and god bless!!

I teach five year olds,and see this happen a lot. As far as the school goes, it is very normal when a child comes in with their parent for this to happen. At this age, when children come to school with their parents I see a lot of children who are very good in class, really start to act out and do similar things. Children feed off each other and you, so if someone is upset it is not long before everyone will be upset. I'm sorry it was embarassing for you. Explain why the behavior is not appropriate to the children. And it is hard to expect children of this age to do everything you say when you say to do it. Just try to stay patient, which I know can be hard at times. Remeber to do your best to keep your voice soft, when you use a soft voice the children will have to be quieter to actually hear what you are saying, its a tool we use in school quite often. Good luck. not a lot of parenting techiniques, just letting you know I see it often, you are not alone

HI K.,
I feel so sorry for you. I have 5 childrens ages 8,6,4,2 and 6mos so I know exactly where you care coming from. My kids did do this too and try it again every now and then. I do not like the idea of leaving the situation. Children need to learn to behave in public and need to know that they are expected to behave in public and if you just leave because they're misbehaving that's not fair to you and they win. I personally would have paused my discussion with the teacher and rounded up the children and made them either 1) put their noses in the corner or 2) sit on the floor by my chair with their hands folded and told them that a punishment awaited them at home for being bad. I do this at the store too, even stores have coners and I will not ruin my plans because they're being unruly. The punishment they get at home is usually being sent to their room and grounded for a day or two, no t.v., no outside,no friends or I may give them spanking. I never have to raise my voice or get ugly. Now that they know that when their noses are in the corner they're in trouble I give them a fair warning. I tell them to cool or calm down and if they don't then I follow through. Good luck with this. Consistancy is key and you need to hold your ground.

C.

I have a 5 yearold daughter and a 2 yearold son. This sounds like what I would like to call a proud parent moment. If it was back to school night I am assuming it was at a time of night when your kids have usually had dinner and are slowing down for the evening. I am sure that your dicipline actions are working fine. My guess is your 5 yearold was very excited to start school. And your 2 younger kids were maybe a bit too tired to be there. It was not part of the routine and the caught a second wind. If your 3 yearold is anything like My 2 yearold he may have been taking advantage of the fact that you were alone.

HI K.,

I am a grandma with temporary placement of my 5 and almost 3 y/o grandsons. The 5 y/o has monkey traits and can be extra silly which prompts his brother to act likewise.

I found that if too much sugar is a part of their meal times, I have a harder time reasoning with them. SO, I give more veggie snacks, string cheese, and protein filled peanut butter spoons. You can also give turkey with cream cheese rolled up. Fruits like applesauce (unsweetened with cinnamon,)

As for discipline, I threaten to take toys away, and also if that does not work, I will tell them, "well if you want to go to McDonalds, or the Jump House, or the Park this week, you better stop what your doing and act right." That usually works.

Sorry, totally wrote the wrong response on your request. Take a Love and Logic course. It makes so much more sense and you can actually bring this issue to the class for everyone to figure out for you. Good luck. My four year old doen't listen either. I think a bit is the age and it is a challenge when you have an adult think to do. Maybe try switching oin your head: how can I talk to my kids and teach them to take care of me? I did this. I tell them things like: momm, was hurt by that, how can you guys help me feel better. Toddlers love to help out. Then when you are out, you can give them the one liner of : I'm an feeling frustrated, how can you make it better for me? Mine respond to that and get sad and fix the behavior. So process with them over and over when the mood is good like at dinner with everyone and then again individually. "Do you remember last night at school? I felt so sad and frustrated. I couldn't hear important stuff your teacher was saying. I sure hope I didn't miss anything. Do you think I should call her and ask her to tell me again?.... How about if we go out in the evening like that again, how would you like to help me be a good listener...sit quiet and color? etc...." Mine love fixing my problems for me and don't even realize they are actually fixing their behavior. Also, noticed you work full time. You have to talk with their day care/ preschool teachers. What do they do in the classroom? Any ideas they have at home? Would they help you brain storm a plan and then set up a situation to practice this type of behavior modification....like the Love and Logic class I took we did the getting dressed thing. I worked with the teacher and put my daughter in the car naked (except undies) in February with a bag of clothes. She wasn't too tickled at changing in the car in the cold before going in (twice). So she gets dressed first now. Also, I have worked very hard at building team work with my two who are 15 months apart. I have each one help the other with different things. We have a team song too we chant while working together...it is fun.

Hi K.,
You have plenty to do with three little kids, and it's hard when they act out in a manner that is embarrasing.
First of all the respect will come after the doing, by you, you have to do what you say you will do, and some people are somewhat more vocal than others, my wonderful daughter is a bit that way, so she gets less results than I did, cause I don't holler, I gave directions and then I just deal with them and they learn to do what I say when I say it. It's kind of us training ourselves to do what we day, rather than say, and say, etc.
Kids are pretty sharp and they tend to know what we will do or not do, so we really do need to be consitent. All of us have times when our kids act in a manner that is not approprate, but hang in there and you will do fine. In addition I know that you will get some excellent Ideas from other mamasource mom's Liz

HI-- You've already gotten tons of input, but I just wanted to say I've gotten a lot of mileage out of the book "How to Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk." Also "Adventures in Gentle Discipline" by Hialry Flower and "The Discipline Book" by William and Martha Sears are also excellent. There's no complicated lifestyle overhaul, just really effective communication techniques and doses of healthy perspective on the realities of life with children. These books changed my attitude and effectiveness as a mom. I stopped making empty threats and asking questions when I didn't want to know the answer ("do you want to take a bath?" "Are you ready for bed?") and started saying what I really meant ("I need you to. . . " "I expect you to. . ." "It is important to me that you. . . ") Both of these books have been out long enough that you could find them cheap online. The info was honestly life-altering for me-- (so much less yelling!) the positive difference was immediateand I was astounded at how much better things went when I was really specific with my requests.
I also find that making sure my kids have been well-fed before we go anywhere makes a big difference in their behavior.
Hang in there--I am sure someday you and I will both be giving sympathetic looks to other young moms wrangling their kids in public. I actually started carrying stickers in my wallet to give to moms whose little kids are getting impatient waiting in lines--just as a little happy distraction. I'm always so grateful when people are nice and have a sense of humor about how hard it is to be Superwoman and haul all your children around on errands that are so often full of unfair expectations for them.

Have you tried "Dare to Discipline"? It is an older book but was effective when I raised my kids.
C. B

BOOK: "1-2-3 Magic" works wonders if you use it consistently! I agree with the others who mentioned this book and can't say enough about this discipline (not punishment) program. I feel your pain also! I've had the same experiences, too! I also applaud the mom who mentioned "practicing" being quiet. Interesting how they pick up on that so quickly! All I have to say when they are misbehaving is..."Do we need to practice?" They usually calm right down! Good luck!

Zann =)
(aka: S.)

It is somewhat normal, they feed off of each other, my younger ones are 7,4 and 2, and let me tell you once one gets going they all do and it can be a nighmare. For me I have found that if I can get the oldest to chill, then the next one will and the littles follows. It will seem like the older one is be picked on but really they are following his lead, and it doesn't have to be the oldest, it could be the middle one who gets it going.

Know I understand wanting them to follow directions the first time you ask, but that just isn't realistic. I wish it were cause the my life could be a heck of a lot easier :).

HI K.,
I have a 4year old and an 18 month old. Funny how they feed off each other! I do use the Love and Logic to some extent. I truly feel like silence is your best friend. Ive had to remove my kids from a store in dead silence. When we get home my son has chores to do before he can go out to play. I simply say he wasted my time this morning and now I'm tired so he will have to help me out. Vacumme, wipe windows, laundry, you name it. I lay on my bed and play it up. "Wow, if only we had gotten our errands done today without wasting my time you might be outside playing with your friends."
I agree, some days I feel like I yell and say "no" a thousand times before I come to my senses and just remove them. Not always an option to remove them so I'd love to hear what other moms do.

You said, "I just want them to follow directions the first time asked." Wouldn't that be nice if they did? I often have days like yours and wonder how I'm supposed to encourage obedience without yelling or forcing them. I wish I had some good ideas for you, but I am also looking for some advice on the same topic. I was hoping someone else had posted already. Just know that you aren't alone.

I have certainly been the mother with out of control children in public - I feel your pain!! I think every mother has been there at least once! My advice, what works for me - leave the second the neg. behavior starts. Give your children clear intructions about what you expect before you enter the public forum, have them repeat it back to you (as well as they can), and then leave (mid shopping trip if you have too) as soon as they act up. That is what worked with my out of control kiddos!

Hi K.,

I can certainly relate to your story. I remember one time when my 3-year-old daughter (now 18) had a HUGE tantrum at a store. She was screaming her head off and I didn't know what to do and I was so embarassed too. Each one of my other kids (4 of them) has had their moment of embarassing mom, and the more you try to gain control the worse it seems to get. The only advice I can give you is to try not to take them all out at the same time. I have 6-year-old twins and I have only recently started taking them out when I go shopping, I'd even buy their clothes and shoes without them there! It was just too hard to control them both (and you have 3 to take out) I also want to say I am in awe of someone who has 3 little kids and works full time. I don't know how you do it -- you are superwoman! Hang in there, I really think you're doing everything right, it's just that too much stimulation for kids makes them act like that -- just my opinion!

let them know you're serious when you say something and that a punishment is coming if they don't listen. Give them three tries to behave. If they haven't shaped up, discipline, whether it's the corner, go to your room, whatever. if nothing nonviolent works, maybe a quick swat on the butt.

You do have your hands full. One thing I found when teaching this age, is stay calm. Kids tell when you get flustered (and its easy to do). Instead of yelling, change your tone, let them know you are seroius. Once you give an ultimatium, you have to follow through on it, and know it will cause a few rough situations, but your kids will know you mean what you say.

Also, when I know I have to take my daughter somewhere where I need her to behave I always make sure I have snacks and books and then I let her choose one item that will help keep her busy. I let her choose between two or three things (stickers, magna doodle, crayons, colorform, pretty much any toy w/o sound). When we get there I remind her of what she chose and she is occupied for at least a few minutes. Good luck and always come prepared.

I have often felt the same way - embarassed at my kids' behavior and wondering if my discipline needs to change. I think every mom goes through this to some degree. My kids are now 9,7, and 5, so I can assure you that it does get better.
As far as discipline, not sure what exactly your using now, but what has worked for me is to avoid issues as much as possible (not take them out when they are tired/hungry, tell them what exactly we are going to do and what I expect - "you will have your hand on the cart while we are in the store"). Not always possible. When the started getting unruley, running around, etc, I would have immediate consequences. You could put them in time out right away (sitting on the floor in the hall of the school, sitting in the cart). Or take them out immediately. The other day we were buying food at Subway. The kids wouldn't stop arguing long enough to let us decide about chips - we left without any chips!! They may cry and scream, and you may get some nasty looks from others there, but guess what - those people probably don't have kids, at least they don't have your kids, so WHO CARES WHAT THEY THINK!!!! Do what is good for you and your kids where ever you are. (Yes, try to avoid impact on others by romoving kids, like at the school, but don't feel ashamed or embarassed).
At home, give the kids a warning, then a consequece. Time out or loss of another priveledge work well. Make it appropriate to the infraction and make sure if you threaten to do something you are ready to carry it out! Do your best not to yell - they learn to tune it out.
The big thing is to be patient. They are still very young. With three kids 5 and under things are bound to be crazy at times (been there myself). Just love them and praise them for all the good things they do. Relax and pick your fights - only the important stuff. And hang in there, they will grow up all too fast!

THANK GOODNESS I AM NOT ALONE! LOL. Wow do I have some stories, but another time for those. I have a 4 year old and 6 year old. I love the advise about listening and respecting them. THANK YOU. I often forget. My son who is 6 is especially unpredictable and his fits escalate to unbelievable measures. I have tried all types of techniques with inconsistent results. I look forward to researching the ideas that were listed. Thanks!

There's a BIG life change happening. They all feel it and are reacting to it. You, yourself, are probably acting more stressed and edgy...which in turn makes you more sensitive AND they do the same thing.

Instead of yelling, just say: We're leaving and start walking. Get them out to the car and either sit there for an exaggerated amount of time or go home. They will not like that and will begin to change their behavior.

You may want to analyse your last few days/weeks. Has big sister been getting a lot of extra attention because of going to school (in the eyes of YOUR CHILDREN)??? Is SHE feeling nervous about the whole process? Mostly, though, is your three year old feeling left out??

I also want to remind you that parenting your children is vastly different from training animals. You're not going for mindless, feelingless drones who execute a command without any thought or emotion about it or without protest ever. In general, what I've found to be true, is whenever we parents say a system doesn't work, it's because we aren't actually working the system...we go half way at best and call it good. The thing about parenting that we all have to understand is that we parents have to be in control of ourselves if we're going to teach our children how to control themselves. You can not give someone something you do not have yourself. If you're screaming and yelling when you get frustrated, when things aren't going your way...well, why would you expect your children to do anything any differently---it's what you have taught them.

Meet them where they are. If they are angry...agree with them that they are angry and, even, that there might be good reason to be angry BUT something things cannot be changed.

You'll be ok. We all have moments where we wish we could melt into the floor. Those are the stories that will bring you much pleasure later--I PROMISE!

You need to leave when they act like that. They are testing if in public you will have consequences. If you can have them removed and you remain, like your hubby take them out so you can listen. It is very disruptive when someone doesn't leave when their kids act like this (MINE HAVE DONE IT TOO!), but you need to just leave. Don't yell, put them in the car, go home and send them to time out immediately. If it close to bed, straight to bed!! Period, no looking back, no anger just consequences for their actions. Explain how rude they were being, how the teacher had important things to discuss and you could not hear her!
If you are at the store, leave or put them in a time out.
Both of my kids know there is time out no matter where we are at so rules apply outside the house too.

You can start buckling down on not repeating yourself several times, just once or twice then follow through with time out, priveledges removed or them removed from the situation immediately. Once they get you are serious and that you won't be pushed around in public then it will be easier.
They are young, my kids are the same, easy one on one but when they are together they egg each other on and it is horrible.
We all have been there believe me!!!!!!!!!