I Need Discipline Advice!!

It is a phase. It is kind of a long phase. I am just recently comfertable taking my 4 1/2 year old to restaraunts. My oldest, 9 yrs old, was easier at the toddler age, but I think that is because there was just one of her. You have 2 toddlers!!! I think it is ok to dicipline your kids in public. I think it teaches them that you are not going to accept different behavior in public. If people give you looks, IGNORE THEM. They obviously have never been in your shoes. I used to tell my kids that every where we went, there was a time out spot. I would say, "Do I have to find the time out spot in Target?" It would work most of the time.

I think you should cut yourself some slack, and if possible, get a babysitter for the necessities, like the grocery store. As they get older and are able to understand more, you can tell them on the way to your destination, how you expect them to act. That works well for me, if I remember to do it! When I tell my kids exactly how I want them to act, they usually do pretty good.
It is a hard phase you are in now. I remember not wanting to go anywhere with todddlers! It gets easier, hang in there.

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I have read everything posted and don't feel that I have much that is different to add. I would like to give cudos to what I believe are the three best responses and say congrats to all parents out there who don't let their kids rule their lives:

1. Set the expectation. My husband and I talk to our children on the way to an event or outing about our expectation for behavior and consequences for inappropriate behavior. There is no question in our children's minds what we expect of them at any time.

2. Discipline at the time of the offense (this does include spanking if necessary.) I do not wait to discipline a child, nor do I give up what I am there to do. I will interrput at anytime to handout the consequence, usually after 1 warning. I also do not yell at my child. I have found that when I am really angry or very serious, whispering in a deep tone and maintaining eye contact until they look away does better than yelling. They are usually already yelling, so that just makes the situation louder. Generally I will pull them close, get down to their eye level and tell them what I expect...

3. Leashes: Available at Target and most stores that carry baby/toddler items. Really, for me, this is just a matter of safety. I'd like to believe that after 1 and 2, there is not an issue, but I am not willing to sacrifice my child's saftey to test it. In public places (lots of people) or parking lots, these are a BACK UP to hand holding, not a "run at the end of the leash and pull me" mechanism.

Good luck!

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Ignore the people looking at you. If you feel you need to discipline, do so. I usually tell my 2 y-o that I am leaving and turn around. So far, she follows. Other things to try are discussions before you go out and maybe see about a small reward for good behavior. They'll pick up on it. If you are shopping, cart them...no matter what! If not, invest in a double stroller to keep them with you. It will save you heartache and hair pulling. Never let a stranger decide what actions you should take in public (as I ramble;) They may not have kids and never seem to understand what you are going through. Others will send a knowing glance your way as if to say "I know where you are mommy, good luck!"
Christa
Christa

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Yes, its a phase and yes, they are running your life! But it will get better. You might want to try taking the 3 yo out without the 2 yo and practice staying with mommy. Its easier to teach to him and praise him for listening on shorter trips. The 2 year old running behavior could be a phase, but I would limit the number and length of times you take him out with the 3 year old. 2 year olds do best with redirection, and a firm no, but often its just like herding cats (especially if your cats are active ones). In even 6 more months, your 4 year old will be even a more reliable listener and you'll be able to respond better to your little one out in public. For your sanity, plan your shopping with another adult, leave the kids at home, and/or make time for yourself by hiring a sitter or taking advantage of a local church's mommy's day out program.

Amen for naptime!

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I will give you the same sage wisdom I give all of the parents whose children I watch. If you do not discipline constantly, consistently and firmly, you will have children who behave like this all the time. You cannot tell a child wait til we get home and expect them to be scared.
Time outs can be done everywhere. I have 8 children (the oldest 25 and the youngest 1) and have done time outs in store bathrooms, theatre hallways, by the side of the road facing the door of the car etc...
In addition, pre planning is key. If you are going out to dinner with small children, pack a small pac with snack food for the wait, a book, crayons, paper and a small toy or two. Make sure you give them a drink and snack before you go so they are not starving.
I would much rather see a mom disciplining her child in public than just letting them run around climbing things, which could end in an injury. I applaud you for your efforts. You just have to think of parenting in the long term. Society has expectations of your child, and if you don't help him understand that, you are setting him up to fail. So don't be shy about planting your child facing whatever wall is handy until he gets the idea that no means no.

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I have a four year old who is just getting to the point where he doesn't run every chance he gets, although he still does on occasion. I think it is more of a personality thing than a discipline thing. I am not a spanker and all the talking and preparing in the world didn't seem to help. If I could rewind time I would get a leash or a harness. They make cute ones now. I also opted to get babysitters when I went shopping every chance I got. AND if I had to take him with me...I would put him in the cart if he ran. But sitting in the cart would lead to wanting to get out...so I would give him another chance so on and so forth. Good luck. You are not alone with this. We also ended up building a fence in our back yard from all the running. We just took it down. I think growing older helps the most.

Hi K.

When it works, I put my 3 year old in the back of the cart and my 1 year old in the front part of the cart, that way they are secure.

If my son ever acts up in public, which he has a lot, I just find a spot and put him in a time out for 2 minutes. We are just getting over a difficult patch with him as he used to scream at the top of his lungs and hit a lot. Very frustrating and embarassing in public. I learned to just ignore the dumb people who looked at me like I was the dummy and smiled at the people who gave me the "been there look"
Another thing we did was to put his favorite cars in time out. Now, he is great in public.

I completely agree that consistent and firm (but not mean) discipline is necessary any where and at any time. Your ultimate consequence is "we will go home right now" - and follow up on it. It may be inconvenient for you a few times to have to leave somewhere before *you* are ready, but it'll only take a few times, and then it won't happen anymore. Also, this may seem obvious, but think about the double umbrella stroller. You don't have to spend a lot of money to get one (although you can) - and if you're someplace where they're going to be bored (and so more likely to do inappropriate things) you can provide snacks and toys etc much more easily if they're trapped. Not that this is a substitute for learning boundaries and rules, but your two-year-old is young to be expecting him not to run and touch everything he sees - that's still totally developmentally appropriate for him, and I think if you expect him not to (especially in situations where he's likely to be bored) you're just setting yourself and him up for a lot of frustration. Not that you don't enforce the boundary, but be compassionate when he can't follow through - he's just very little and still naturally very impulsive. Even your three-year-old is developmentally still just learning to govern her impulses. So, yes, firm boundaries, but also avoid and/or prevent situations where they're going to be bored and tempted to follow their impulses in ways that will be inappropriate for the situation.

I strongly suggest a Parenting with Love and Logic class, or if you can't find one, at least read the book. The previous poster who mentioned a special trip just to train them was suggesting a tool called a "strategic training session." In my PWL&L class we heard about a woman who had the same problem as you with her daughter. It took about three STS for her daughter to learn that if she ran off, or touched things in the store, she would spend the trip in the stroller. You absolutely need to discipline in public, and so what if you're making a scene! Your child's learning how to behave is much more important than what a bunch of strangers think. Good Luck!

"One, Two, Three Magic" is definitely a book worth reading. My son is just getting old enough for me to use it. It has great discipline advice that is easy and makes sense. Check it out with reviews and such on amazon.

Check out the book "parenting for REAL life" by James and Lynne Jackson. Amazon has it. It has wonderful discipline techniques that are very different from traditional thinking that really work. Also check out their website: www.connectedfamilies.com. They also hold workshops around the twin cities showing their techniques. It is AWESOME!!! The workshop schedules should be on their website.

If their not old or mature enough to listen and stay with you out in public then they really need to be buckeled down to a stroller or shopping cart. I don't care if they don't like it or they want to walk to bad. It's for their own safety and mom's sanity.

Once they are old/mature enough to walk with you in public and they misbehave yes discipline them, take them to a bathroom, a vacant shopping aisle, a corner where ever and discipline them however you would at home. I have given my daughter a timeout in a store before. I've also thrown her over my shoulder carried her out to the car and left my entire basket and she got lectured and ranted at the entire way home from the store and then when we got home she went to bed or to the corner.

It only takes 1 or 2 times of really really cracking down on them for them to get it. PUT your foot down you are the parent, donot let your kids rule you.

I'd rather hear and see a parent disciplining their child out in public than to see a child completely out of control and running their parents wild. I can't stand kids who scream out in public. I understand small babies but not kids.

You better believe you need to discipline in public. My oldest was a challenge in public for a while. For her third birthday she wanted to have the "Blues Clues" theme. We went together and got cups, plates, knapkins...... Anyway, she then started to throw a fit. I explained that if she didn't stop that it would all go back. It all went back and oh how she cried! I never let a child out of the cart until they understand that they have to stay right next to me. They can throw a huge fit. I don't care. They stay in the cart. If they get out of control I ask them if they would like to go to the bathroom to talk. In the bathroom I talk with my hand as it warms their fanny. As they have gotten older I will make them sit on the floor right near me in timeout. My kids know that if they make a scene in the store, they will pay. I have to may kids to allow to much. I will purchase them a snack if they behave. Those that don't behave get their punishment plus no snack and they get to watch everyone else eat their snack.

Once my oldest was being terrible at a very public church event. I took her out behind a couple of cars and swatted her butt. I turned around and found an officer watching. I could have shot him when he offered to give her a piece of candy. I turned him down and explained that policy officers only give candy to little girls that are being good. We still laugh about that.

I used to think a "kid leash" was cruel until I had my own toddler that runs amok! I am seriously considering one myself and have come to the point that if people want to throw dirty looks my way, then so be it. I welcome them if it is going to keep my child out of harm's way.
Also look at Jim Fay's book Parenting with Love and Logic. I believe he also has one specifically for very young children too. The books are a quick read and very useful. If you get the opportunity to participate in one of his workshops and here him speak...do it. He is a wonderful speaker. He tells stories of his own experiences with children as an educator and parent. Good luck!

I had a really good time reading the other posts (I think the advice may come in handy someday soon!) and it reminded me of some discipline advice my college professor in childhood education gave us. I don't know if you've heard of Dr. Leslie Owen(s?) from UW-Stevens Point who teaches Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences and was mentioned in the book Last Child in the Woods, blah blah blah, but this tidbit is from her. If her kids acted up in the store, they would simply go home, right then and there. She would leave a full cart just sitting there and leave. She said her kids never acted up in a store again. Hmm...sounds a little extreme, but it may be worth a try. :)

I was one of those moms who hated the leashes. I would make comments to my husband about how can they use those on kids and why can't they just keep track of their kids like we do. Well that all backfired on me when my son was born. He was so much busier than my two girls ever were. We were in toys r us and after struggling all day to keep track of him or have him in a cart we bought one. He loved the freedom of not having to hold my hand or sit in the cart and it made life so much easier for all of us. His was a backpack style that had cars on it. We would put snacks, tippy, diapers and wipes in there. It eliminated the need to carry a diaper bag into stores. As far as disiplining in stores. My kids have had to take timeouts in the grocery store isle. Yes people stare but after the kids see you are willing to follow threw they usually stop the behavior.

Yes, you should be disciplining in public. Whatever your discipline policy is, it should be consistent (home and elsewhere) and immediate. It also helps if the consequences are logical. Then they see that their behavior has direct consequences.

Although you might get a look or two if you discipline in public, there will be far fewer of those looks overall when your child is well-behaved.

So, if he runs around and touches things, tell him, "Stop. If you don't stop, you will have to sit in the cart/stroller and be strapped in." That's his one warning. If he does it again, voila, he gets strapped into the cart or the stroller. No questions, no arguments. Though he might scream, he is learning that you mean what you say and that he needs to follow your directions or there are consequences. Do not take him out of the cart/stroller just because he is screaming, but instead take him out only when he calms down. Then say, "Are you ready to try again?" If he says yes, try again. Repeat.

The other alternative is to take him places, but if he gets out of control, pick him up and walk him out of the store and discipline outside. Not quite as good because it's not immediate, but he will still get something out of it, and you will avoid being embarrassed in public.

As a mom of three(thankfully they made it to the teenage years), we struggled with this same issue until we attended a parenting class sponsored by a local pre school. One of the ideas that they gave us was "going public". What that means is you teach your children to hold on to you....your hand, your belt loops, belt, side of your shirt, or even the side of the grocery cart. This way your hands are free to shop and you know where the kids are. Before starting this they told us to tell the kids what we wanted them to do and then tell them if they do this and give you time to get shopping done faster then its more time for play when they get home or give them a special privelege. They dont encourage using food as a reward for good behavior, instead reward with something fun for them to do. As for punishing in public...not a good idea. What we learned from the class was to abandon the cart and leave the store....and then take away toys at home...but warn them before going of the outcome if naughty while mommy is shopping. I've even been to the point of putting my daughter on time out in Walmart when she was 5. and it worked !!!

I know you've had a ton of responses, but I just wanted to say that in a world of automatic doors a "leash" can LITERALLY be a life saver! I have one of those Monkey back packs and my son loves it-- he brings it to me when he wants to go out!

When my kids were small, a friend and I had all our kids together (5 of them)and went to the mall. They ranged between 18 months and 6 and half. The 18 month year old was in the stroller and while we were getting lunch in the food court, he slipped out of the stroller (just short enough not to be seen over the table). Needless to say it was very scary not knowing where he was, if he was taken or hurt. Use the leash, I, personally, would feel much better about using the leash then losing a child for even a few minutes.

kiddy leashes...wish they had them when my kids were growing up...i was a single parent...but leashes come in all kinds of dezines...better that then the worst happening-good luck

Hi K.
the things that seemed to work with mine where to make sure they know the expectation on behavior before we get out of the car. if they started to act up they would get a warning telling them if they were naughty again we would leave and then I would follow through we only had to leave our cart once for them to understand I ment what I said. you may want to plan a trip that really has no other purpose than to teach them you will do what you say. Good luck I hope you find something that works. T.