At My Wits' End - Will They Ever Listen???

Have you tried not necessarily priviledges but maybe material things? Like clothes & toys?

A friend of mine did this with her kids and actually threw them out (I'm not suggesting that as that is absolutely crazy) but it worked! It really taught the kids the value of "things".

Well, hope everything works out....

B. I so understand what you are saying. My three boys, 14, 11 & 8 can't be in the same room because of the constant chatter. I try to have them do things in order. While the 8yo showers the 11yo brushes his teeth and the 14yo reads. Then the 11yo gets in the shower the 8yo brushes and gets ready for bed. when they are done they read. The TV is never on or they stop dead in their tracks. Keeping them apart helps the process flow.
Good luck.
D. C

Right or wrong, I've learned to lower my standards - if something is frustrating to an adult (like their room being a disaster) can you imagine how confused a child must be..... I mean where to start? I try to pick small manageable tasks for my 4 and 6 year old to complete then build on the success. I agree, though, there are days when I feel like I could rip my own hair out! Sometimes I've been known to give myself a time-out before I even speak to them! Remember the good stuff because when they are in college, you'll have all the time in the world to clean! Take care.

Yes they will, But I think your expectation are to high, they are very young to expect all of this. When they ask for simething just say when you pick up some of your room you may have or do this. Keep it simple they are still very young.

Timers works somewhat for us. Tell them they have 20 minutes to get showered and dressed and they will start to internalize what 20 minutes feels like.

I have two girls ages 5 and 8 and I used to have them manage their shower on their own, but have since learned that to keep my sanity I really need to be in the bathroom with them to keep it moving. Otherwise they stand under the spray and laugh, play and giggle until the water is cold and neither have even begun washing. They don't have the same sense of urgency and timliness that we do.

Welcome to the wonderful world of little girls!! Mine are quite the same. I recently read part of the book "How to raise kids you want to keep." Sorry, Don't remember the Author. What I read talks about teaching your children to willingly submit to your authority. The premise being if they won't do that they will not be able to be successful employees, spouses, etc. They offered some great suggestions for how to do this. I didn't get to finish the whole thing, but I would recommend it based on what I read. Perhaps a sticker reward with a special meal out after so many sticker- no clutter and good quality time!! In the mean time, I feel your pain. At least your kids like to be together!!! Best of luck!

I'm sorry B., I don't have any great advice except to say it sounds just like my house, only mine are a little younger (2, 4 & 5). I usually ending up threatening to throw away whatever they don't pick up and have followed throough. but still need to make the threat every time which is the frustrating part. I'm looking forward to see your advice from others. Hang in there!
K.

I promise I didn't laugh at all (maybe one giggle!). I too faced the same problem with my two boys with their room. Here's what I did:

They had one chance to pick up their toys. Anything that wasn't put away after that was mine to throw out (I said it twice, made them repeat it so they understood).

I set a timer and put it in their room so they could see it (10 minutes). When the timer went off, I went in and anything that wasn't put away, I put in a garbage bag and threw in the trash.

I only had to do that once.

We have a den that it really small and I've decided to keep their toys there. All they have in their room are books and one or two action figures. That helps too.

Good luck!
C.

I hear your pain, and I survived it! My three girls would do the same. You have a lot of great advise, but I had to throw my 2 cents worth in too. for bathing, and personal care stuff, they would be separated, but with door open so i can monitor. A shared room that needed cleaning and they would be together and I would find a place (Like a bed) and sit. I would then 'direct' who was to do what next. 'you put books on shelf, you pick up dolls, and you put dirty clothes hamper into laundry room...' I would break it down to even smaller parts if needed. But you ask what to do with the infant? Try feeding him when doing this. You will be less stressed (since you can see what the girls are doing) and the girls will see they are still being watched.

The funny thing is, my girls 22, 20 and 18 still want me to 'help' them with their cleaning. When I visited my oldest, She wanted me to sit on the bed while she sorted and organized her apartment. It was a great bonding time. Those at home during college breaks still do the same too. We all can turn quite giggly.

My two sons 15 and 13 like the direction I give, but not so much the talking, so I sit and read a book and then they ask 'what next' when they loose direction.

Good luck

hi B.. i would never have my children takea shower together. you net to stop that . they are at they age where they exspor things . what is they tell oother peopple then what?i realy thing you should stop doing that. evan if they other starts crying. but your food down and say no. you never no what will happen later on in life.
B.

I would try a timer with either a reward or consequence if the task is not completed by the time the timer goes off. It may not work forever but they will probably enjoy it for a while... good luck!

So, I don't have any advice and I'm not laughing (ok, maybe a little). I'm just relieved to know that I'm not the only Mom going nuts over girls who won't listen!! Good luck, and I'm looking forward to seeing the responses!

They're 5 & 6. One day they may listen, but for now, their train of thought is what they want to do. And theres 2 of them. Wheres your husband? Does he work late? He could supervise bathtime. If not, i used to put my daughter in her carseat in the bathroom with me while i got my other daughter thru her bath.
As far as working with them on doing certain things, try a chart system. Put a sticker or star next to the chore they did. When its all filled, reward them with their favorite meal, or have an ice cream night. Ask your husband for help if you need to.

Oh, I hear you! I have one, and he was impossible at this age. First of all, "clean your room" can be overwhelming at this age, particularly when it is such a disaster that they don't know where to start. Separating it into tasks like clothes, books, dolls, etc. can help. You could try separating them - one in the shower while one does clothing, then the other showers and the clean one does books. The other thing I did with my son was to take away privileges - it DOES work if it's immediate, but it doesn't work if it's delayed. For example, "Clean now or there's no TV tomorrow" is too delayed at this age. Instead of you being the maid, try taking away an entire category of things that make the mess. For my son, it was dinosaurs and hot wheels and legos. I couldn't walk in his room without stepping on something that hurt! So, I packed everything in boxes and put it all in the attic - I left him with stuffed animals, his special blanket, and books. Everything else went in the attic - "Since you didn't take care of it and it doesn't seem to be important to you, I put it away until you are older." THAT got his attention. Same thing worked for safety - the first time he rode out into the street without a helmet, the bike went up in the rafter hooks in the garage - he could see it every day, but he couldn't ride it. That was a long week, but he didn't ride without a helmet again. Once he rode into the street without looking for cars, and up the bike went again. Never happened again.

Reducing the amount of stuff in the room will reduce the clutter - if it's all over the place, they aren't playing with it anyway. And you're probably doing twice as much laundry with clean clothes winding up on the floor and being walked on until they are dirty. However, you can also pack up what it on the floor so they won't have it to wear. No one ever suffered irreparable harm by wearing the same outfit 2 days in a row.

If your girls have specific storage areas, great. If not, it might help to create them - books in one area, etc. Then label them. Before my son could read, I put pictures of the items on the storage bins. I gave him a drawer unit to hold construction paper, markers, crayons, etc. - and each drawer had a picture so he could tell what went where without opening the drawers to look. That saved a lot of time, and set up good habits for studying/homework later on.

The last thing I would say is, they are not listening because they think it's hilarious. You are right that some things are funny if you aren't so exhausted or distracted - and they know innately to do this at dinner time when it will push more of your buttons. But the only repercussion is you being upset, and that just sets them off - they enjoy being "in control" after a day of being at school and following rules.

You could try a chart with whose jobs are whose on which days - my neighbor does that with her 2 girls - one does the dog, the other the guinea pigs, then the next day they switch. If they get stickers, they get an allowance. If they don't cooperate, they still have to do the jobs but there are no stickers/allowance. But you are right, you don't want to create a situation where they expect money or a treat every time they just do what they are supposed to. Rather than rewards, try deprivation! This works great when they are older too - taking away the car from a new teen driver works wonders!

In any case, you are in the driver's seat - where you should be.

Good luck!

I know you said that you do not want to get into allowance, but....I have a 6 yr old step son who has some of the same listening issues and mess making. I went on line and for free you can print out a chore chart, and put the daily expected things on it and then give stars for everything they have accomplished. He is very into legos, we give him 5$ a week but be break up what can be done it the money. He has to save 2 in a bank account, give 1 to charity and then has 2 that he can use for what he wants. He has been saving for another lego set that he really wants and it is much easier to go to a store and say no you don't have enough for that yet, you could get something smaller or keep saving till you have enough. There is more to the just giving money for things they should already be doing. But as of yesterday morning I was not sure how it was really working, until with do questions asked he brushed teeth, showered, got dressed by himself. But the clincher was when he said I am going to go clean up my room and take my sheets of my bed because I am not going to be here in the morning for the cleaning lady. He is usually with us on Monday nights so he has it on his to do list for Tuesday morning, but he had to spend the night at his moms due to his half sisters graduation from high school. So he knew he had to get it done in order to get his star. If he does not do something we deduct 25 cents, but rarely do we need to anymore, and if he is super outstanding and helpful above and beyond his list we give him a little extra. It is not for everyone but he has responded very well. Rewarded for behavior rather than have to take away privilages.

I'm not sure if any of my suggestions will work but here it goes. First of all it sounds like the two of them together makes for them not getting what you want them to done. Is there anyway you could have one downstairs with you while the other showers, then the other child's turn? Another idea is to have them shower when you are available for more supervision and perhaps when you are calmer, not having to do so many things at once. I know you mentioned you didn't want them to get an allowance or toys for things they should be doing but I believe positive feed back is the best way to go. If you were to have a chart with the things you expect of them, stating your rules and once they get a set amount (your choice) of stickers or stars they get to do something fun with YOU. Maybe go to the park or movie something like that. Also I suggest everytime they do something good, for you to be sure to praise them for it and for the things they don't do let them know but quickly and be sure not to give them attention for the negative things but lots of attention for the positive things. I hope these ideas help. : )

Hi B.,
I still struggle with my daughter on this same issue. What works best for her to stay on task is for me to set a timer. I just use a little, portable, kitchen timer. I tell her how much time she has to complete the task (say, 10 minutes to take a shower, 5 minutes to get dressed, etc) and set the timer. I leave it with her and go about my business. That way, she can check the timer to see how much time she has left. When it goes off, I check to make sure she's completed the task. I don't usually reward or discipline her if she has/has not completed the task since we do this several times a day and she seems to enjoy the "contest" of beating the clock,but you could have your daughters add a marble to a jar every time they complete a task on time. When the jar is full, they get a treat.

Have you read 1-2-3 Magic? They may not need the discipline portion, but there are some really good ideas in there about how to get your kids to do what you want. I just read it and some stuff sounds perfect for you.

Hi! My son(7)does the same thing.He gets side tracked so easily!I know you said taking away privelages doesn't work.The thing that works best for me is not letting him have any tv or video games and he earns them by doing what I ask.It actually works. During the week it works well because I need to get to work and getting him to get ready in time was making me nuts!TV and video games are things he loves but he doesn't get them during the week at all.So if he wants them on the weekends he earns them by listening.So far so good. T.

B., if you figure this out, let the rest of us know. Or better yet, write a bestseller and make millions! ;-)

Seriously, I am in the same boat with my 5-year-old girl. She is wonderful but completely out to lunch in some areas and willfully ignores us in others. We have tied her listening and picking up after herself to her screen time. We'll see if this works. The only other thing that works is standing over her while she performs tasks we've requested. I'm hoping this is a short-term solution and things will resolve soon. Good luck!

Love and Logic -
How about something like...
"Dinner will be served until 6:30. Children who are bathed and ready are welcome to join us at the dinner table." Then go on with your dinner plan. There is no need to remind - but if you do this, stick to it. This should only take once - kids who wake up really hungry tend to remember the lesson.
My children are 5, 4, and 2 (no I don't send the 2 yr old to bed without dinner) and have used similar instructions with great success.
I read "Love and Logic" recently and it has saved me. I have changed my tactics and made use of natural consequences rather than removing privileges because it wasn't working for me. With the cleaning issue..."Do you want to clean up, or would you like me to do it? Remember that I get rid of toys I have to pick up." If they do not clean up, they have made their choice and you pick up and toss (or store for later) - again, you should only have to do this once. Or say "You are welcome to keep all the toys you put away."
It will get worse before it gets better - they'll want to make sure you're serious...but it is amazing how putting the responsibility on them rather than just telling them about responsibility really makes a difference.
The major driving force behind this is allowing the children to make mistakes and face the consequences when they are young and the price is low. The benefit is that I enjoy my kids so much more because I am not nearly as frustrated as I was before.
Check out their website: loveandlogic.com

hi,
Sounds like a few things would help. First, don't send them at the same time. At their age, they do need supervision, and coaching. So, send them one at a time, with a small thing to do, set a timer, and then with clear expectations, inspect what you expect. Don't say clean your room, ask for books away properly, games away, and clothes hung up. That they CAN understand. If they leave something out, take it away. Then, let them earn it back. If they don't want to earn it back, perhaps someone with less would like to have it. But they are six and seven, and without sounding harsh, they didn't pick to have another baby for you, so don't take it out on them. They still need to be on the "short leash" as far as supervision goes. Gvien the opportunity, they will have fun together. That is the good side too, isn't that why we have them close together, so they will be close to each other emotionally?
Good luck
D.

Hi B.,

I have had the same problems with my girls. I thought I was being strict and straightforward, consequences, etc. But after some attentive observations, I realized I was giving them way too much leway. For instance: I would give my girls three warnings. By the third warning, they had to take consequences, but what started happening was something like this: "I am warning you, this is warning two. Don't make me say three!" Then they would start up whatever the behavior was, and again I'd say, "don't push me, you know you're on thin ice!" Yeah. That wasn't working. I was wimping out big-time, and I didn't even know it. Now, I use the warning system much more consistently and I ALWAYS enforce the consequences and after just a few times of enforcing consequences...voila: Major improvements in behavior. I'd say monitor yourself VERY carefully and be sure you are maintaining the heirarchy. Best of luck.

Hi B.,
It sounds as though you have a great sense of humor about it all which is wonderful. Have you tried positive re-enforcements or praise? I notice that if I give my 5 year old the most simplest praise for something, such as taking a 10 minutes shower opposed to a 30 minute shower, she is more likely to repeat that behavior because she loves when I am proud of her. I do agree with you that you should not have to pay your children to do "chores" or household work, but if you have not tried it already, try praising their every "good" behavior and giving them tons of positive re-enforcement. Good luck, I know my days are numbered before I start feeling as though I would like to have a brick wall to slam my head up against! :)

For my three year ld I give him threee times to pick something up and then it's takes away adn thrown away(i put it in a bin and store it away in the closet)
i also limit what's in his room to distract him-my mom did it for me when i was a kid she believed bedrooms were for sleeping and reading books not to have the radio/cd player and tous in it
i know how hard it is with a baby who needs the attention/care and constant supervision(my daughter is almost 5 months old) and son is 3.5
sometimes i just put my daughter in the swing and make her wait so i can make sure that he does what i ask and give him attention
it's one of those things that you have to pick your battles sometimes it's easier to let the baby cry for a few minutes and get the older kids to do somethign while you "stand over" them instead of letting them do something on their own
beleive me i wish i had the brick wall to because my son will ignore me too i think the brick wall would listen better or at least get tired of me saying soemthing and do it LOL

My mom had quite a system for the 5 of us. There was a point reward system for doing jobs. Needed points for TV. Room cleaning was solved with "boxing day" It would be announced about 30 minutes before it happened. Expect tears. She would enter the room to collect (in an old oven box) anything on the floor, or otherwise deemd out of place. Items would be property of mom, and need to be bought back (with the points) or given away to charity if not claimed in a certain amount of time. It was harsh at the time, and we were always happy if she started in our brothers' room since that gave us some more time to tidy up. The first time is one of disbelief, they will take a second event more seriously. I hated it at the time, but I've since changed teams :) Sometimes the threat of "boxing" would eliminate the need altogether. Just let them know you are prepared to follow through. Good luck.

Hi B.!
Have you tried sending them up separately? You could set a timer and allow one to get ready in the allotted time, then send the other up after the timer goes off, and is downstairs again. Or have you tried seeing who can be done first? A little competition never hurt anyone! Good luck!
L.