Terrible Fours?

Sounds like he is very jealous boy, and spoiled. You have to be very firm. Like it or not. Never give in thats the worse you can ever do. If he is punished in his room, take everything out of there so he cant look at books or play. When he pinches you you pinc him back so he can feel it he will then not want that. If you take a favorite thing away, make it 1 day at his age. Dont give in. Good luck

Hi! I found four worst than two.They definately test.When my son is really being a pain I usually take everything away and make him earn TV,Video games etc.If he starts listening he earns a half hour or hour and so on.It has actually worked better than the time out and taking stuff away for short periods of time.Luckily my son is super sensitive and hates to be in trouble.But he definately has his moments.Just be consistant.I know very hard to do at times.They can wear you out but don't let them see it. T.

I have an almost 11 year old son with a very similar personality. I too am laid back and a gentle soft spoken sort of person,it can be quite a challenge. My advice to you is to be as firm as possible with him,each child needs to parented differently and it seems like your little guy is not the sensitive sort. He will sense your weakness and believe me he will try to run your entire household if you let him. A great thing for my son has been,as you mentioned FOOTBALL. His rough tough personality and boundless energy is perfect and it also is very dicsplined-the coaches are very tough-they really keep those kids in line. He thrives on this.
It is very important to stand your ground because when school starts for him,teachers are definitely not as forgiving as Mom with loud,physical kids-prepare yourself for frequent phone calls from the school. But being aggresive and assertive is a huge plus in todays world but it is very challeging for us Mom's to channel it in a positve way. My son has been a huge challenge for me but he's a great kid,he makes friends easily because not shy at all,he's a super athlete and very determined. Best of luck and get him into football as soon as he's old enough!

I definitely agree that you need to be firm and stern. Meanness is not necessary. I think it is actually a benefit that you are soft-spoken, because if you do effectively assert your authority with him, consistently and remain your soft self, he will respect people regardless of their first impression. Especially important for a boy who will become someone's partner/employee/lover/father someday.

I had this issue with my daughter when she was about 4. Our family therapist suggested the following: She said I was telling Jayna what to do but I was not following through and I wasn't consistent, and I was not clear about consequences. And she gave me a plan, and made me promise NOT to give in, at least for one week. She assured me that if I did this plan, I would not need to give in again. And she was right.

We use time out, but with a warning system. If Jayna is for example, standing on the sofa (against the rules in our house), I tell her, sit down Jayna. This is warning one. If she sits down and behaves, that's the end of it. If she remains defiant, the I repeat, "Sit down, warning two." If I have to say "warning three," that's it--she goes to time out and stays there for an appropriate period of time. If she remains defiant in her room, I add one minute to the preset time out for each outburst, again using the warning system. If by the third warning she is not settled down, she is in her room indefinitely until she calms down, and she has to go to bed a half-hour early.

The key here is to be consistent, so that everytime you have to say "warning three" the consequence is put in place. This gives the child an opportunity to weigh the options and make a good choice. ALWAYS MAKE THE CONSEQUENCES CLEAR. In other words, "Warning one, Jayna: get down or go to time out (or early beditme or whatever. Make the consequence something that will cramp their style). If Jayna makes a good choice, I always respond positively (verbally, not with treats). Good behavior is its own reward.

Kids at this age are looking to see how big the container is in which they operate. They are pushing out at the sides of the container to see how close the boundaries are, to see what the limits are, and to see how safe they are. They need to know how to contain themselves. Acting out like this is a concrete way for them to figure this out. They won't ask you 'mom, how bad can I be and get away with it?' They just act it out and see it as reality. If they know that YOU are in charge of the container and keeping them safe in it, then they will always come to you to test the boundaries. It is a gift, and a huge responsibility.

A word of caution: Take care of this now. Before he gets to school, before he becomes an adolescent. My in-laws have a son who behaved much like yours as a child and now, because they did NOT deal with him early on, he is a predatory kid. He doesn't respect any kind of authority, and is constantly in trouble at school. I don't mean to scare you, exactly, but we all want the best for our children and it helps to have some foresight. Doing our best for our kids often requires making some very unpopular choices (in the kids' eyes), which are necessary for their safety and their development as effective, worthwhile members of society.

Sheesh, I realize I just wrote a TON on this subject, and I hope it helps. And BTW, I'm NOT for corporeal punishment except in extreme incidents where the child is needing to be brought out of a frantic, tantrum like state. Not for punishment, since it works against you. If you want your kids to come to you in times of need, rather than go to their mostly inexperienced friends or make decisions that they are not mature enough to make without consulting their parents, do not scare them with physical violence. Very bad idea. Would you trust someone who hits you?

Good luck, K.! I can tell you are a thoughtful, kind and wise mom. Oh, and have a third...but AFTER you get your son evened out ;-) There's some inspiration for you! He'll be a better big bro in the end...

Namaste,
S.

definitely be MORE stern, he is 4, and should be understanding by now that what he is doing is wrong. he should spend time standing in the corner every time he does something wrong. if he destroys something, make him fix it, or clean it up. he should get pushished or lose privlidges for lying.

I am also a quiet person, but you need to be loud and strong with your kids. don't let him walk all over you.

ever try spanking him? that might work if you've never tried it.

you don't want him to be a delinquent when he's older, take care of this now.

also you could try a reward chart for being good, see it that helps.

good luck

D.

You don't need to yell to be effective, but you do need to be firm and consistent. And it's a good idea to work as hard at accentuating the positive as punishing the negative. For example, my son is 3.5 and also pushes every limit. Some days he spends a lot of time in time-out (chair in the corner facing the wall where there is no talking or playing). When the timer goes off for the end of time-out he has to come and apologize and acknowledge what he did and why it was unacceptable and then we hug.

On the other hand, whenever he does something helpful, patient, kind, respectful etc I praise him, hug him, tell him how proud I am and/or add to his reward system (used to be a behavior chart, now a reward jar). He will now go out of his way to show me good things he's doing or done to be recognized. For example, one day I watched him voluntarily relinquish a toy he was playing with to his little sister when she asked. I praised him lavishly for sharing so nicely. Often since then he will bring that same toy to her so that he can be told what a good boy he is for sharing. If I miss the act, he'll take me by the hand and show me what he did!

Firm is important, and if my son is disrespectful when asked to do something mouthy on his way to time-out for another offense his time-out is doubled. I do not yell or react emotionally so that he doesn't have the satisfaction of making me upset. (Button-pushing is only effective from their viewpoint if you react.) But it's clear that I'm the parent and he's crossed the line. His big one right now (which I privately hate) is a saucy "No WAY, Mom!" Automatic time out. Even if he says it under his breath.

It's especially hard because they're so persistent and it's exhausting. Sometimes it feels like you're making no headway. But don't quit. Just the other day we had a little celebration for a whoe day with no time-outs. This is a HUGE accomplishment for this kid.

Now at bedtime he asks for an assessment of his day: "It was a good day, Mom? Only a little time outs, not lots of time outs?" This lets us talk about the good points and tough points again in a non-pressurized way. It also gives me a chance to reassure him that I know he's a good boy and that he's trying hard etc. Like anyone, he wants to please and needs to feel appreciated and like he's having some successes. All punishment with no acknowledgment of efforts or success can quickly make a kid stop trying. Who wants to work hard if the work is never recognized?

Also, as another poster suggested, try to get him to understand and verbalize his emotions and to find a way to deal with them that won't get him in trouble. Spencer has a hard time with frustration, for example. So we've given him permission to hit a special pillow when he feels frustrated. I can ask him if he's feeling frustrated and what can he do about it and he will tell me "hit my pillow". When he does I praise and encourage him. After a few really good hits (with me cheering him on) he's laughing and all the aggression is gone without harming anyone or anything. I think it's giving him a sense of control over at least one of these emotions that seemed so out-of-control.

Good luck and don't give up! It's hard work and there are no easy one-shot answers!

Hello,
My son is also four and a rough and tumble.
He does not talked back to his father but he yells at me.
And he used to love to run and I couldn't catch him.
Then I started counting. If he starts to do something he is not suppose to do I says "That's one" if I have to get to three he goes into his room if we are out of the house he goes into time out. It took a couple days for him to realize that I meant business.
I have only got to three a couple of times.
It also works with my eight year old daughter who is very strong willed.
I found that if I don't raise my voice and engage in the arguement that helps a lot.
Also my son love to feel needed and loves when I let him help with chores. It helps boost his big ego when he is dragging his hamper to that laundry room or pick things up when I vaccuum.
I always make it like that I couldn't have done it with out him. He feels good and it helps me out.
Good Luck!
Jennifer

Parenting always works best when parents work together. It doesn't have to be the same style but complimentary. Dad needs to inform son that NO ONE treats his wife poorly. An expectation and consequence should be set up between them in a calm time in a conversation. Mom needs to be firm and consistent. I would ignore those "last words, jabs" and focus on the behavior you are trying to correct. Those are just his last ditch efforts to make you waver! Choose one or two behaviors at a time to work on. In a "family meeting" you should discuss the care of personal property and a consequence if your home is damaged in anger. Chores to work off the cost of repairs works well. 4 yr olds can vacuum, sweep, mop, dust, pick up yard debris to pay off a debt. Offer some appropriate options to express anger to replace destructive ones! Be proactive in quiet times. A conversation about how we talk to each other or treat each other can be brought up in an outburst, "remember what we talked about" Let him help in setting up the consequences, that may make it easier on you and give him ownership of his choices!
Football is a good discipline sport but he can't start until he's 6! How about karate? It is supposed to be excellent for channeling energy!
My favorite book is Parenting w/ Love and Logic. check it out!
It will be easier at 4 than at 14 when they out weigh us!
Good luck! In similar shoes myself, Mom of 4 ages 11, 9, 6, and 3, boy, girl, girl boy! Preschool teacher. Good luck!

I have read other responses and this seems common in boys. I have a girl who is like that. She is like your son and doesn't listen. The reason your son doesn't listen is not because you are soft spoken, but because you are always there. My fiance and I use teamwork and a "good cop" "bad cop" approach. She has to push one of us to the limit then she listens to the other one. You and your husband have to work together and be on the same page. Good luck!

I would read one two three magic it is a fabulous book for disicpline without yelling threatening etc. kids become immune to those methods.... also another good book to read is children are from heaven by john gray the women are from venus men are from mars author. He talks about kids inherently want to please and it is all in the way you speak to them that will get them to comply to your wishes. I know it sounds crazy but it works. good luck mother of 13 11 8 and 16mths K.

I have a similar issue with my husband in disciplining in that he yells and I don't, and he thinks that because he scares my son into submission, he's getting through. I think he is not, because the behaviour is persisting. Personally, I perceive the yelling as violent (because it is usually accompanied by some kind of pounding of walls or surfaces of some sort, and he really scares my son) and don't want a violent household.

In our case, we are seeing a counselor to help us get on the same page as to how to discipline. With regard to my son, when he is outright disrespectful and disobedient to me, I remind him that even though I don't yell, I really mean what I say. Timeouts sitting on his bed thinking (no toys), punishments that include taking away a treat that was previously planned (perhaps a playdate or an outing we had planned for the weekend). We have to be disciplined and see these things through. Often they include disappointments for us as well, if we were looking forward to the weekend outing.

You might try these things as well. It seems like for your son, you have to teach him NOW to respect property as well as you and other people. I mean no disrespect because I know you're seeking help, but picking at the wall through to the sheetrock is outrageous for a four-year old, and he will only get worse and more destructive from there if you don't stop it now (which I know you are trying to, so good on you!). As much as you can, explain that this is your home and his, and he cannot destroy it because he's angry. Tell him he is a good boy, a respectful boy, and good respectful boys don't do that stuff. You probably should make sure your husband is on the same page about the kind of disciplining you plan to do when he's not around so that he will support it when he is there. Remind your son that you mean what you say even though you're not yelling. Take away his toys, make him do timeouts. Tell him that if he gets up or out of the room, you'll add time to the timeout.

If you try these things and don't have luck, try counseling. Even if your husband doesn't want to go, go alone. Learning how to deal with these things is important.

I hope to have been helpful. Good luck.

I have found 4 worse than 2 or 3 as well. I find a change in environment can be helpful - like getting outside. We also find taking toys away, and earning tv time really works. We also do a sticker chart to help reinforce good behaviors. Try to get him to talk about how he feels. (which I know can be hard!)
The key is to try to concentrate on the behaviors you want to see, to be consistant. Unfortunately with 2 different parenting styles your child may test more, but if he learns he can come and talk to you about his feelings, it will be better for you both in the long run.

I feel for you. My oldest is very similar to what you described. It is soo hard. He is such a beautiful and sweet child...but sometimes the "other" person will come out and it can be so hard! There is a book out there (there are actually quite a few since our boys aren't the first to act this way) that I have found very helpful "Setting Limits with your Strong will Child" by Dr. MacKenzie. I think the gist of it is that these kids are generally really bright (at least mine is) and you have to be consistent with disciplining them...no matter what or who. Yelling does not help (although sometimes it does make me feel better), but consistent boundaries do. We slip at times too and the "other" child comes out...it is very hard!! Especially if there is more than one child involved.

The one thing I have found with the strong willed child is that they love "jobs" "tasks" and to "help" and to be extremely physically active. That is when my child shines the most. He truly is a wonderful son and amazing brother, but he is most certainly willfull...and that can be exhausting.

You are not the only one out there!!! Good luck.

H. Z. (SAHM almost 5, 3 3/4, and 13 month old boys)

K.,

That sounds like my younger son and my husband. My older son was not like my younger at all. We did a few things that changed the dynamics. First of all we worked really h*** o* how my husband dealt with the boys. I explained to him and he eventually got it that yelling, although it works in the short term, doesn't help in the long term. We try to redirect him when he gets stubborn. We also try to make him laugh by joking with him and it really calms things down eventually.

We started a listening chart and every time he listens without us constantly bugging him he got a sticker. At the end of the page of stickers he got to pick something special to do as a family or seperately with one of us. We also have a rock jar that when we catch them doing something good we put a rock into it. When he filled it up he again got to pick something special to do. Basically we are finding a way to point out the positives instead of always giving him consequences for the negatives.

I can not say everthing is perfect, but he has really gotten so much better. I also have to remind myself that he is only 4 and his stubborness and streghth if redirected will really serve him well when he is older.

I am going throw the same thing with my 4 yr old daughter. I try to get down to her level and let her now that it is not exceptable to act like that and use time out as a learning tool at first it was a struggle to get her to stay in the time out chair but it works most of the time. as putting her in her room she would play with her touys instead of learning an important lesson.it is always good to be face to face when talking to a child.

Hi K.,
Two of my boys have already gone through this "lovely" stage. I have always been a big fan of taking things away from them. My five year old loves action figures. When he is giving me a hard time I will warn him that I am going to take something away and if that doesn't work, I calmy take it and put it on top of my refrigerator. This way it is high enough where he can't get it, but in plain sight to be a constant reminder. I will take it away for a day or two and everytime he asks for it back I will say no and remind him why I took it from him. If it is a special toy that they love this can result in a lot of screaming and pleading, but be firm and stand your ground. Next time he repeats the behavior when you give him his warning just remind him of what happened last time. As long as you take something from them that they really care about it will be a strong enough consequence that will really make them think twice before they act that way. Also, don't give the toy back a half hour later when they come to apologize. This will not be effective enough to really make them think in the future. Good luck!! Four is a tough age, it does get better!

Please definitely be more stern, definitely do not ignore this behavior. Everyone has good ideas, but I just wanted to mention that it sounds like he is frustrated about something: picking at the walls, throwing hard toys down stairs, etc. Or maybe he is bored? How about setting up some play dates for him? Or bringing in a teenage babysitter to play with him for an hour a day, even if you are home. But I am especially worried that you said he throws things at the dog, so try to stop that immediately. Just take him by the shoulders and say sternly, "NO. We do not hurt animals in this family." Even if you have to stop what you are doing and let your dinner burn. Go over to him every time. And personally, I like the "one, two, three" method and think you should try that when your son won't listen to you. My father did that with me and I did that with my son! It works! Good luck.