Kids Being Very Difficult

Look up Love and Logic. Books are also available - maybe even at the library. It takes some work, but kids respond pretty well to it - and it minimizes yelling.

Have you ever calmly and consistently disciplined them for defying all these instructions? If so how? It's hard to tell you what to differently without knowing what you do.

Yes it is totally normal behavior for kids who can get away with it, or kids with totally ineffective discipline.

The 3 yr old sounds like every other 3 yr old mom experience. :) Add more time into your schedule, and expect these kinds of delays.

Really, they sound like very normal kids, with very normal habits, expectations. EVERY kid wants their parent to wait b/c they want to do something. EVERY kid does what they want (if they don't learn that there will be unpleasant consequences for disobeying instructions). EVERY kid will be in their own world and not even hear you and go off and do their own thing.... IF you do not take the time to make sure you have their undivided attention FIRST.

That is the one that grabbed me, b/c most kids can and will listen if the parent takes a more focused approach themselves. Think about it. What is it you are repeating until you're blue in the face while she still doesn't listen? Is it to pick up her room? To go to bed? What?

I would suggest that before you give her any instruction (ANY instruction whatsoever) that you stop yourself and ask yourself, "Can she see my eyes when I talk to her? Is she paying attention to me or to something else? What can I do to make sure her focus is on me?"

If you are home, call her to you and wait for her to come stand next to you so you can see her eyes and see that she is actively listening, before you throw out an instruction across the room (or from another room even). She won't hear you otherwise. Sometimes, even a few inches away they aren't listening. I've seen the simple act of physically touching the child make all the difference. A simple hand resting on the shoulder as you say, "Dear, go put your back pack in your room, and then come back here," will almost ensure that she goes and puts her backpack away and then comes back to you for the next instruction.

Calling out across the room is ineffective.

You will think, "but I have my hands full and can't wait for all that," but really, it's just a few seconds to wait. And if it is important enough to require compliance, it is important enough to take the time to let your child be successful, rather than setting you all up for a battle and yelling, and frustration.

So, stop, think, and then make sure your child is focused on YOU. Sometimes you can go to where she is, but you find it is more effective if you let them come to you. By then, they will have already stopped what they didn't want to interrupt to do the chore. Right?

Good luck.

I would try to streamline bedtime. Bath, pjs, book, bed, period. If they get up, tell them "bedtime" and put them back in. Then the next time, just put them back, no talking. Etc. Don't yell. Don't make it a game. Don't do anything other than put them back. They will lose interest.

You might also try a book like Love and Logic or How To Talk So Kids Will Listen. Your older daughter may benefit from a list of tasks (short list) for the morning. "Get dressed. Eat breakfast. Put shoes and coat on." Have her help you with the list and you can point to it whenever she's off track.

I would also tell them 10 minutes or 5 minutes to finish up, and then do not wait. If it's bath or bedtime, they go. THEY do not tell YOU to wait. At their ages, you brush their teeth. Line them up and do it for them. They can double check you, but up til 8 yrs old, our dentist says we must follow up or brush for them.

If she takes everything off, make sure it's something she can put on (like a dress and leggings instead of tights).

My DD's teachers also use 1,2,3! Eyes on Me! and when kids call back 1, 2! Eyes on you! the teacher has their attention. Sometimes I will get on DD's level and look her in the eye and tell her something and then have her paraphrase back to me. My DD is overwhelmed if I say, "Clean your room" but "Pick up all your clothes" is more reasonable. Or "put all your stuffed animals in the bin". She needs it broken down.

I have also put things in "time out" when she won't leave them be. This AM she needed to "paint" (use a dry brush) everything and I said, "This is keeping you from doing what you need to do so we can get to school on time. It's mine now, but you can have it back when you get home."

I would also consider waking them at different times or staggering bedtimes to give yourself focus on one kid at a time. If DD6 is up and eating her breakfast, then you can chase down DD3 and get some pants on her. With my 6 yr old, I tell her the weather today, I give her a slim selection of clothes and she knows she needs to put on one pair of pants and one shirt (example) and I don't care which. Kids like choice, but limited choices work best. Praise them anytime they do the right thing or when your DD6 helps you with DD3.

Being consistent will help. If they know that they can push and push and push and you'll eventually blow, they'll do that. If they learn that you mean 8PM and are serious, then they'll stop some of the other behavior since there is no reward. The flip side is, when kids know what to predict, it's easier on everyone.

We also have a 3 & 6 yr old. Our 3.5 yr old is a girl as well, and indeed, follows the same patterns your child does with clothing. In the mornings, to streamline things we have done the following:
1) Pick out clothing the night before (getting visual/verbal agreement from child on this is important)
2) NO TV
3) Everything gets done in the same order, get up go to the bathroom, get breakfast, get dressed, get hair done, brush teeth, get shoes on, get jacket, and get backpack or snack and head out the door.

Needless to say, we still find ourselves repeating and repeating and repeating. It's their age. Easily distracted, and needs lots of re-direction. Our 6 year old has brilliant days, like today when he decided to brush his teeth BEFORE he was reminded. Other days, it's a battle.
We just bought the book 1,2,3 Magic. We like the techniques. Especially around "starting behaviors", which most of the morning is.

Good luck - it will be better when they are a little older. All things are a phase. Remember when you were up all night with a crying infant, or they would get a cold and it was the end of the world; see things are already better then they used to be. :)

Are you a single mom? If there is a dad or significant other in the household, unless that person is at work both in the a.m. when you are getting the kids up and out, and again every p.m. when it's bedtime -- that significant other should be there, taking charge of one kid entirely while you take care of the other kid entirel, at least for bedtime if not for mornings. Divide and conquer - and the benefit is that each kid will get an adult's full attention (well, most of it) for a time rather than having to share you.

If there is no husband, boyfriend, SO in the household, any other household member can step up to this....Your mom or dad if they live with you or you with them.

If you are on your own to get the kids up and back down in the evenings: First, know that this is TOTALLY typical; your kids are not "bad" or misbehaving but they are acting their ages -- distractable, in their own worlds. That doesn't mean they are intentionally trying to ignore you to be naughty or they are dawdling because they like to frustrate you; they are dawdling and/or fixing their clothes etc. because kids these ages (yes, at 6 as well as 3) are inside their own heads and not thinking about what comes next, as in "I need to stop changing clothes or we'll be late!" They don't think that way yet so don't have expectations that they will.

Lay everything out the night before or get one of those closet dividers (you hang them from the closet rod) that has days of the week slots and you put each day's clothes, including socks and underwear and hair accessories -- everything-- into it. Be sure the toddler no longer has access to any clothes besides that ONE day's clothes so she cannot get at new panties or pants; put her clothes in your own room if you can or in a closet where you use one of those "babyproofing" door handle covers so she can't plunder and get hold of new clothes.

Same with nighttime. Nightclothes under the pillows every day, change and into bed -- no running around or playing in nightclothes; into them, you read both one book and no more, and lights go out. Don't bathe them daily unless they actually need it -- a daily bath is not great for skin, actually! (If the three year old is not potty trained yes, she needs a daily bath, but does the older girl?)

Does the older child have the same bedtime as the younger one? That would be convenient, sure, but you could try putting younger to bed while older one looks at books and plays quietly (no TV! It's a babysitter than only gets their brains revved up -- even the gentlest children's shows are bad to watch near bedtime because the flickering images make kids wakeful. Look up what the pediatricians' association says on that....). That won't work of course if the younger is yelling for you. That's why another adult taking on responsibility would help greatly.

When they tell you to wait because they want to do something -- are you actually doing what they tell you? Don't. "Sorry, bedtime is for bed, not for (fill in activity here)." Scoop up the smaller one or put your hand on the older one's shoulder, and get them into the bedroom and keep them there -- after bath, if there is one, they do not leave the bedroom.

Tell them that there will be new routines that include consequences. If they are telling you to wait so they can, for instance, play with toy X: You give one warning only, as in, "Bedtime now, so this is your warning: Put the toy in the toybox by the count of three or you lose it for the rest of the week." Then DO it and follow through. They may fuss and yell at first but be cold, mama. Toy is gone, hidden from them for the entire time you said it would be. If they tell you to wait so they can watch a TV show or play a game, it's time to say no TV or computer games or other games after a certain time that is at least one hour before bed routine starts. Books only after 6 p.m. or whatever works.

I'm sorry it's so tough right now. It sounds like they think they can get away with simply walking off and doing as they please, so consequences for doing that are really important here. Simplyfing the routines could help too (no daily baths unless needed, that day's clothes the only ones available, maybe also using a timer so they understand that they need to dress before the timer rings or they lose something).....

Listen, next time, I mean if you decide to have 3 kids, order the Pre-Reared kind. Save yourself a lot a grief.

;)

I would use some sort of reward for staying in bed, getting ready on time etc. They're still pretty young so they have to have immediate rewards. Maybe something like, "if we can hurry, Mom might have a special treat for you later". If they make good efforts, give them the reward (something small like extra time doing something they like).

When mine were that little, I just added extra time so I wasn't so stressed.

Before you tell your child anything, have them come over to you, look you in the face, say what you have to say and then have them repeat it back to you.
Then they can ask questions if they don't understand what you are asking them to do.
Keep the instruction simple.
"Pick up your toys" is way too broad.
Say "Put your blocks in the box" and when that is done, "Put your books on the shelf" and when that is done, "Put your dolls in their house", etc.
They really need it broken down into simple instructions given one at a time.
Once you get the hang of communicating (get their attention, give them a simple instruction, have them repeat it back to you, then they go do it, repeat) - it becomes a lot less frustrating.

Our son (it helps having just one - he could never double time me plus me and Dad have him out numbered) never wanted to go anywhere in the house when it was dark.
We all went to bed at the same time and all the lights were out so his only choices were in his room where his night light was (we had night light in the bathroom, too) or come across the hall to me - and he ALWAYS made a bee line to me if he woke up in the night.

If it takes an hour to get them into bed - start the bedtime routine an hour earlier.
Have the 3 yr old use the bathroom before you get her dressed.

Sometimes our son wanted to make me wait to do something trivial.
Occasionally I'd wait but more often I'd say "Ok! I love you! Bye bye!" and walk out the door.
That always got him scrambling to follow me.

You can change that situation pretty easily. You must be consistent and in charge. It's only hard for a week or so and then they get it. If they tell you to "wait" immediately take away whatever it is they are doing (turn off the tv, take away the ipad, toys, etc.) and tell them they need to do it now. There's really no need to yell or scream, just be the one in charge. I can tell you from experience that it will be a lot of whining and crying at first and then they will know that you actually mean it. Get a handle on it now because they only get smarter and more stubborn as they get older and your life will not be pleasant if you don't.

AV is giving excellent, excellent advise. She especially is right on the money when she says "THEY do not tell YOU to wait." You had BETTER nip this behavior in the bud NOW. If you don't, they will do more and more of it as they get older, and then the ugly tween attitude will be right in the middle of telling you to wait. I promise you that it is an ugly thing to watch a parent be told what to do by a tween.

Even if you have to end up taking every single toy and putting it away in "time out", you need to do it. And mama, you have to stop yelling. All that yelling does is make it so that they don't listen the first 5 times, so you yell and they finally listen. Theys will never listen the first few times as long as you have to yell to make them listen. And then what will happen is that the yelling won't work anymore and they will start yelling back at you.

sounds like the inmates are running the asylum here.
what are your consequences when they don't listen, or tell you to wait?
if it's just letting it go and eventually yelling, there's the problem.
sounds to me as if you need to build your parenting philosophy from the ground up. there's just too much to address here. don't feel bad- just take some parenting classes, and structure your family more appropriately.
khairete
S.

Been there done that (some times still doing it). Mine are 7,4, and 1. Though you go into detail, most of what you are describing is disobedience. If you can get on top of the disobedience, you're family life will become so much more enjoyable. We use "obey the first time". Google it. It takes an initial investment of extra parental energy before it pays off though. I think this is why when life gets crazy its so easy to slip back into the sort of chaos you describe. Because parenting by "winging it" generally looks like kids running all over you. Its normal for sure. But its not ideal or even acceptable. I'll share the two biggest things that help create more peace in the home. (that is when we have not defaulted back into "winging it".)

Teach kids honor and respect over obedience. Obedience is part of honor and respect. Make sure they understand the big picture. You are in their lives to guide them into becoming good people. Among other things, teach them to give you a verbal response to your instructions, like "yes mama". Make it a rule. Have a phrase you can use to get their attention when they are engrossed in something else. I stole the one I saw my daughter's teacher use: "1,2,3, eyes on me!" the kids respond in kind: "1,2, eye on you!"

Teach first time obedience. This is one of the ways I teach my children to honor me. This one is really hard to maintain, I find. But teaching kids to obey the first time requires an immediate consequence for a first time offense. Of course warn them about the shift you are taking. No warnings, no exasperation, no anger, no waiting until yur breaking point. Your kids know your breaking point and they will take you there often because its their job to test the limits. Don't punish based on your patience or lack there of. Punish when a rule is broken. Sounds so easy doesn't it? Its hard to be consistent with this one, I'm not going to lie. But this one will make a huge improvement in your family life.

Those are the big ones for us. And boy do we slip back into chaos easily. I feel your pain. Schedule regular family meetings to remind everyone how you want your family to run. Also, help kids see if from your perspective too. I don't hesitate to tell my kids I always love them, but I don't enjoy them when they are disobedient. Its good for kids to be reminded that the world does not revolve around them. Their actions effect others and they need to think about that. They are part of the family, and to make our home lovely, they have a role to play. I need helpers and obedience.

Not all of what you mentioned is disobedience per say. Some of it is just a phases, like the undressing for the toilet. I would encourage a new behavior and redirect on that one. I would not pick that battle, but you may choose to.

The bed time stalling though is disobedience clear and simple. Mine lose 1, 2 or all three bed time books when they stall at bedtime routine.

Okay the little one is just that....little. Need to give her a little slack & know that they're at diff stages so they will not be able to handle the same
things.

Try to streamline getting ready for bed meaning have the littlest one's pj's
out & ready before you start the bedtime process.

Do the oldest first.

Tell them "no, we can't wait. It's time to get it done now".

Get their things ready for the next day ahead of time.

This sounds normal. Very normal. The only suggestion I have is maybe allow your 3 year old to wear her jammies when you are going places early in the morning. My daughter used to do that and I thought it was adorable and it made my life easier.

Use a timer and make it a fun game. Who can get dressed before it dings? Help the youngest while the older one dresses herself nearby, make sure they have enough time that they both "win!" even if sock is inside out or zipper is stuck, as long as they dont stop to do something else they should be able to beat the clock.
An hour to get ready for bed sounds right, take a bath, put on pajamas, brush teeth, listen to a story, all calm and not rushed, takes an hour. Use the clock to tell them when it's bath time for instance 7:00 is always bath time, show them the clock and make it sound like it's just the rule, like saying please and thank you, all children take baths at 7:00, the timer tells them when to get out. My kids are much more cooperative for a clock or a timer than for mommy's nagging.
You've gotten great advice about stopping the need to repeat until you're blue in the face. Get her attention, say it once, use the 2, 3 reminder and then it's time out for not obeying.