GRRR...Hubby and I are at the end of our ropes. Our 14 yr old twin boys are doing terrible in school, and their attitudes really suck at home. Neither of them seem to be too interested in finishing their homework, when it is done, it's never turned in, and most of the time it never even gets brought home. The younger of the 2 is a mouthy little brat, and the things that come out of his mouth are calculated to be hurtful and mean, and directed and Hubby & I. The older refuses to do even a halfway decent job with his chores and is constantly goofing around avoiding his chores. I've found 4 or 5 dirty dishes in every load of dishes he's done over the last week. Their room is a pigsty, they never pick up their clothes, or their toys, and it stinks from all the sweaty underclothes that never get washed.
Does anyone have any ideas on getting them to be more responsible for themselves? They have repeated 6th grade and it looks as if they will be repeating 7th as well. They are on restriction from everything, no video games, no TV, no computer except for homework. The younger of the twins has Cerebral Palsy (although mild), so there are some chores that he simply doesn't have the physical ability (balance issues) to do, however I do have a chore list and tried to split the chores between the 3 boys so that they have a mostly equal amount.
I'm at my wits end, I'm tired of constantly harassing the older boys about homework and chores and personal hygiene (they won't shower unless told to and they REEK)and I just want them to finally buck it up and realize that life doesn't get any easier, the sooner chores are done the sooner you can relax and play or whatever.
I've been told it's just the teenager stage, but my nephews were always showered and clean and finished their chores with little fuss during the same stages, and there's 4 of them.
I'm just not sure if I should just sit back and let them figure it out...I do NOT like to be always riding them about their responsibilities. I'm tired of fielding phone calls from the school about their grades, I'm out if ideas in that area, I'm just plain out of ideas all across the board. I would sincerely appreciate any suggestions on way to deal with this..whatever the approach may be.
The Love and Logic series has a few things for coping with teens. I really have gotten a lot from their toddler book. My kids are young still, but I dread the teen years! I know what a tough time I gave my parents. ANyway, here is the Love and Logic website, teen section:
http://www.loveandlogic.com/ecom/c-48-favorites-of-parent...
My 13 year old went through this, as for the grades, 2 things 1. Bring home every book everyday that you are getting a C or lower in, you will work in that book for 1/2 hour at the dining room table where I can watch you, you goof around and are caught you add 1/2 hour to each. This took a total of 1 month to get control of. 2.I made sure to take toxins out of my home, like, pinesol-bleach-windex-lysol-bath products with formaldahyde (Q15)-any ammonia or clorox products. I used vinegar and baking powder until I found Melaleuca, now we only use their products. You do have to be a member, but for a household of 5 we save about 250 a month using their products and the kids are so much more focused, all of them are on honor roll or honor roll mention now. It is awesome to see the change. You can call if you want to talk ###-###-####.
DITTO DITTO DITTO to Julia!! and Alex. Comparing your children to anyone else then themselves is a FAST and SURE why to shut them down. If YOU can't see the Wonderfully Amazing parts of them, THEY won't be able to see them either. If they don't see anything fantastic about themselves they'll feel NO NEED to try--because they're bad and being bad is what they will always be so why frustrate themselves trying to be anything else?? KWIM??
You may not like this idea BUT why don't you see if your state has K12 there. It's public school AT HOME. Now your intitial thought may be that you don't think you can handle it--you know with irritating boys, HOWEVER; there is STILL an outside teacher involved so you're not doing it alone and there are benefits for the children being able to calm themselves down and minimize negative influences that I'm certain you don't have any idea about (because the little turds--teens in general--are experts at secret keeping and diversion).
I bring this up because my daughter was not doing ANYTHING at all in school...she just gave up completely on herself. She allowed herself to believe she couldn't understand and that she'd mess up on any attempt; therefore, in her mind, it was better not to do it at all. For her, the price of Mom being disappointed in her was cheaper than the price of feeling stupid.
I found out about the K12 program: www.k12.com and it has been a COMPLETE turn around!!! She has to do her work before she can play with friends but I allow her to choose what subject she wants to do; if she wants to start with math today or history or whatever subject, it's her choice. She has gone from not trying anything at all and have 60 missing assignments in January, to choosing to do her school first thing in the morning by herself in whatever routine works best for her and passing her assessments with %100 mastery almost ninety percent of the time! She LOVES it.
I told her I was considering this before I made my decision. I gave her an opportunity to figure it out at school, but when it looked like she was in a whole too deep I pulled her out. FOR HER, this was the BEST thing. She was drowning in a situation that wasn't conducive to her learning and she felt so much pressure that when she'd come home, life here was PAINFUL. This girl is SO MUCH more pleasant and productive. She still doesn't enjoy chores BUT she DOES THEM. She really likes having her afternoons and evenings free.
You may want to try that with one or both of your boys. It could be that their behavior is feeding off one another and splitting them up in the day and social scene may make a possitive difference.
Dr Laura would say Military school if you're not showing to be affective at the authority position. Also, she'd ask what Dad is doing to put the fear of all things into their hearts for being so disrespectful. She's also ask: What are their true callings in life? What is they were put on the planet to do?? Find and Foster THAT. For Bill Gates it was computers and networks, for Micheal Jordan it was basket ball, for Socrates it was philosophy and public speaking, for my husband it's military service because he's a giver and protector, for me it's nurturing so I'm a mother of many and a doula...find what they LOVE and foster that by molding their experiences to assist success in those areas.
In anycase, I HIGHLY suggest getting "Always An Ally", which I believe is the BEST book ever written about relationships of the parent/child variety specifically. It's a paper back and very easy to read. You can find it here: http://www.alwaysanally.com/
While this behavior is typical is some fashion, you do NOT have to allow it. You are well within your rights (and responsibility) to use corrective behavior of your own. Just pay attention to if it is beneficial or not and be willing to modify without giving up. "It's a war out there" <wink>
N.,
There are some common things that go along with learning disabilities. BAD ATTITUDE is number 1, especially if they are teenagers. They have had it with trying hard because it is not changing a fundamental problem with getting data into or out of memory, or comprehending data visually or auditorily. They know what they are able to NOT do and don't want to keep being reminded. This leads to avoidance procrastinating, and fighting about homework. It also transfers over into the home with the parents.
I would suggest that you look into testing them. I also suggest you look at an alternative therapy that uses Acupressure points and applied Kinesiology to permanently change the brain’s functioning. This allows the child to then come up to grade level, understand and remember lectures. It also focuses on clearing attitudes around school, teachers, homework, etc. There are several teenage boys who shifted from screaming at teachers, fighting with parents and low grades to logically shifting their reactions, raising grades and now turning in all their assignments. If you are more interested in speaking to their parents or reading their experiences, contact me through my website www.Lovejoybit.com
Wishing you the best,
A. Lovejoy
Parenting with love and Logic by Jim Fay and Foster Cline. It is not easy but it works. I think failing a grade was a good consequence and hurt them, not you. I agree with the other posters, stop punishing them. My kids get an allowance, if they don't do their chores they pay me to do it. It adds up quickly and this is their only source of money. Get the books, they even have some just for teens, it works, it will take a while to implement and change your cuurent style but it really works.
This is not normal, and some of it is unfortunately typical of boys who are not living with their original mom & dad. I'd say get into family counseling QUICKLY, or this is never going to change.
Thre's also a program by Dr. James Lehman called Total Transformation (you'd have to google the spelling of his name) which may help, but you've got the divorce thing added onto the obvious behavior issues, and that may require an extra level of counseling.
It's very, very typical that children from divorced families start acting out as teenagers. (The daughters often become promiscuous, trying to find a father-figure substitute through sex with boys.) Please don't send me flaming e-mails. Run this by a psychiatrist. This is a normal pattern -- I didn't invent it and I'm not accusing you of anything. I've lived through it myself and so have most of my friends from divorced families. I'm trying to be consructive by identifying problems and sending you in directions which may help. (Sorry, people on this website love to get ANGRY with me.)
I'm saying a prayer for your family right now.
I don't know that my advice will be much help, as I have little ones, but I was a teacher of teenagers. I can confirm that yes many teenagers do have this attitude unfortunately, but I don't feel it is acceptable behavior. I also saw many who rose above it. It is hard because of peer pressure, but life is always going to be a downer for them if they don't buck up. It sounds like you are doing all you can with them right now, so I don't know really what else to tell you, except maybe just let them face all of the consequences and hit rock bottom. They probably don't care about school because it isn't the cool thing to do, it could be that they aren't being challenged enough, there are a lot of reasons for that, but if they keep failing they will see how unfulfilling life is soon enough. Don't let them have any of their priveleges back. As for chores, if you can stand it, just make sure you don't do them for them. I'm sorry you are facing this right now. I pray that it will get better soon. Good-luck
I agree with getting the How to Talk book, and there is a teen one that might be more helpful. http://tinyurl.com/avg7ry It is really a wonderful book and I think it could make a big difference. The thing that occurred to me the most when reading your post was that the boys really really need something positive about themselves that they can focus on and hang on to. So that everything in their lives isn't negative and awful.
I find it is almost impossible to motivate with only negatives or mostly negatives, or even with negatives at all. Maybe they don't think they can do any better and that they aren't worth it, or that it's not worth it to try because they can't keep up with all that is expected. I know my 13 y.o. son feels like that sometimes, and that is when I know he needs a real boost to his confidence. I try to bolster it as much as I can, while being honest and sincere. He needs it at this impressionable age as much as possible.
Small (or big) successes can work wonders at this age. With an honest, caring attitude, show them small things they can do and reward them with some real and loving praise. They are learning to define who they are, and it sounds like all these guys have are negative definitions. Start with any small success and focus on that with them. Make sure they know you are proud of them. Pick out whatever positives about them that you can and love that, focus on it and build it. What you focus on is what will grow. So if you focus on positive parts of them, those things will grow. Remember to fill their emotional bank accounts first, without that, they have nothing at all to go on in life and things probably don't seem worth trying or working hard for. This is hugely important for them at this age. In my opinion, and I do not know you personally, but in this situation it seems that stripping them of any comforts would just make them feel more desolate. Instead of harrassing them, LOVE them. Be kind to them. Find common interests with them. Be there if they need to talk. It seems like if you repair your relationships with them, things would begin to change and maybe they would start to care more about themselves because they would feel more worthwhile and motivated.
If they have repeated grades twice, have you had them tested for learning disabilities? ARE they are on IEPs for anything besides the CP? Many of the behaviors you are complaining about may be related to the problems you are having at home. I would highly recommend evaluations by a good psychologist to look at learning disabilities, emotional issues and to help you with parenting issues. This is much more than just a teenager issue, I think, and you may need professional help with the boys. Please don't feel so overwhelmed, because the boys really may need more help than you alone could have given them.
I would also recommend that you switch from a punishment approach to a reward approach. Instead of taking away everything they have, allow them to earn rewards by doing things right. For each shower, each day they clean up their dishes, each time they put things away or do their HW, they can earn 10 minutes of video time, or TV or motocross or horseback riding or whatever else they like. Just a little bit of whatever they like, for each thing you want them to do. And each day they don't do what they need to do, they don't earn those things. It just gives them some incentive, instead of them feeling beat down and defeated all the time.
good luck.
I agree with Jen N. I have three teenage daughters and am running into some of the same issues. They wouldn't pick up after themselves, not being responsible and not doing homework.
My husband and I had to lay down the law and the hardest part is sticking with it! If I have to pick up after them, it is GONE! If it is something I know they need, then they have to pay 50 cents to get it back. There has been lots less lying around lately.
They have NO privilidges until homework is done and practice is finished. (They play instruments). They get no priviliges on weekends unless their chores are done. They go to school, come home, do chores, homework and go to bed.
Until they can handle their responsibilities then we must do it for them. Smart talk and attitude earn them extra chores. They live in our house, we provide them with food and shelter. Child services doesn't require them to have games, cell phones or extracurricular activities.
They are learning. The hardest part is sticking to the plan. They are gradually earning back privilidges as they gain responsibility. Good luck to you and blessings for patience and stamina!
I didn't read the other suggestions, so I hope I'm not kicking a dead horse, but something obviously needs to change. You wrote because you feel like your home life has suffered because of these issues.
I would recommend getting pro-active; the way that you addressed the problems with school sounded like you are more concerned about having to talk to the school admin. then the fact that your kids aren't getting an education. Maybe try getting and staying in communication with their teachers so that you know what needs to be done- some schools have on-line parent-teacher forums to track student progress, figure-out a good, consistant channel of communication.
There is also a power transfer occuring where you and your husband are getting the life sucked-out of you. You need to STOP playing into their games and set-up some guidelines- you don't want to ride them, but how do you think they will be treated if they end-up in a special facility. Get a book and start caring; even if it's really hard.
Sorry if this is harsh, but this is your chance to make a difference in the lives of your sons, and if you choose to just let them "figure it out" it's not going to help them feel loved, design a good future for themselves, or grow into healthy men. Please, please, please, encourage them to live better. It's also possible that they have low self-esteem from being bullied and don't feel good about or want to do good things for themselves, like bathe- have a sincere conversation.
Good Luck
It sounds to me like you need to start with a clean slate. Work with them doing chores and reward them with something they love. Positive reinforcement. They might be bringing each other down. Stop yelling and free yourself from the frustration. You should also treat them with respect and in turn they respect you. Hang in there.
There are two things I suggest in addition to the great advice you've already received.
1) STOP COMPARING!! Your boys are not your nephews. They have their own strengths and challenges and personalities. When we compare we tend to look at our worst and their best; thats probably the case here too. Your boys have strengths, things they're good at. Your nephews, I'm sure, have challenges and issues; you just may not see them.
I fell into this same trap a few years ago. My neice and nephew were always better dressed, more accomplished, smarter, more amazing than my kids, it seemed. But our situations were completely different and when I stopped comparing I could see how amazing, smart, sweet, creative, loving, etc my own kids really are.
2) Check your own attitude. I understand that as you wrote this post you are very frustrated and probably venting some. But chances are these same things come out when you're dealing with your kids. You've described them as a mouthy brat, deliberately mean, sloppy and lazy, dirty and stinky, etc. Kids are going to live up to your expectations, and if most of what they hear is the negative, that's what they will live up to. (Its on a subconscious level!!) I know its hard to hear. I know its very frustrating to feel like your kids are the most challenging, disrespectful, lazy, or careless urchins out there (again, stop comparing). But they follow your lead. Act the way you want them to be. Talk the way you want them to be. Always be respectful and patient around them and with them. Focus on the positive. I'm not saying just let everything go and don't correct them - they still need discipline and chores and boundaries and homework. But praise them for even a small success. They will want to do it again (don't overpraise or make it insincere. Just a simple 'I like how you did ____' and give a specific reason why.)
When you make sure that your own attitude is positive and cheerful (and you may have to fake it till you make it) you will probably notice a big change in theirs as well!
I am sorry, I don't think I have anything to help you. As for the chores, I guess make then do them over and over until they get it right. My mom used to say that dishes are the best chore, they can be done over and over and over until right. And if they are dirty the person who did them gets to eat off the dirty dishes.
You could also stop doing anything for them, if they can't help with their part around the house then you won't have time to cook them dinner or do their laundry etc. They are old enough they won't starve themselves. I wouldn't even let them out of the house until they start being clean.
If it was me, I would have them shower before they get to sit down and eat dinner. And if they shower then give them a food or treat(ice cream or something) they like. Make a special dinner that they picked.
My mom would be meaner about it. Sponge bath and all. They can't clean themselves, then they need cleaned like a baby.
Good Luck.
It is a teenager stage, some are worse than others. My aunt & uncle had 3 that were like this. My aunt finally told her kids that if she got one more call from the school office, she would yank them out of school and home school them. I know there are people that will criticize me for thinking of homeschooling as a punishment - I know it is a proven method for some families. But for my ornery little cousins, after one semester of being home with mom all day and not seeing friends, etc., they cleaned up their act and did what was necessary to earn the privilege of going back to school. This was a big sacrifice for my aunt as she had to take a leave of absence from work in order to take care of her teenagers. But her kids graduated from high school and two of them are now happily married with kids of their own. Just throwing out an idea, you have to do what's best for your own kids! Good luck!
Clean their room for them, but keep their things. They will have to earn them back, and you may need to explain AGAIN why they don't have anything left. Cleanliness in body is a prerequisite for getting an outfit to wear for school. Otherwise, they wear what they had on the day before. Making their bed must be done before they leave for school, or they don't have a blanket that night. Homework will be done before any extracurricular activities.
My son went through this. He did his homework (I helped him when he needed it, and watched him do the rest), but refused to turn it in. He didn't want to be the "brain". When it was turned in, he got straight A's. He didn't make the grade in middle school, so he's now in a high school with kids who refuse to live the norm. Freshman have to be in JR ROTC. Jake is now the top gun in his class and has risen 3 ranks higher than any freshman EVER has. He's on the student counsel, and a student counselor for those thinking of suicide. He is getting straight A's. Now it may sound like I'm bragging. I am : ), but let me tell you, it's been a struggle, and he still gets sucked into peer pressure, and I know when it happens. His attitude gets stinky and I want to whack him. My husband is in a wheelchair due to an accident 2 years ago. My son saw it, feels partially responsible (even though he doesn't realize it consciously), thinks his Dad has ruined his life, and treats my husband with disdain. It is really hard to deal with at times because of the stress, and my husband got a brain injury at the time of the accident, and doesn't handle things as he used to.
Staying the course in what you want to do is the most important thing here. Giving in (like I tend to do at times) makes things worse.
Let us know how things go. Putting them in different rooms at home and school will give them a chance to be themselves without a "twinner" to help egg them on. If you can do it, more power to you!
Hey N.,
Wow, you've got a lot going on there! I feel for you. :) I have a 13 yr. old who doesn't like to shower either, his room is a pigsty, and complains about chores. You are not alone!
I would take EVERYTHING from their room, if they can't take care of the things they have, they can learn to appreciate them, then earn them back slowly. I would take their beds (leave mattresses on the floor), tv, toys, ipods, computer, even the bedroom door. Leave them only with things they need, mattress, clothing, toothbrush, etc. When they get it together, start giving things back, start with the door, etc.
Another option that my parents used on my sister was if they leave their room a mess, explain to them that you will clean it once a day. This means a SWEEP. If there is anything lying on the floor, out of place, etc. you will collect it all, put it in a garbage bag and store it for a month. You have to be tough about it. This means EVERYTHING. Obviously, if they have only one pair of shoes, you can't take those but if they have multiple pairs then this is can be good, they have favorites I'm sure. :) My sister lost her math book for a month, her makeup (it was laying on the floor) and a bunch of other things that were super important to her. This was super effective with her.
The homework issue is tricky. We started offering monetary rewards to our son. He gets 10 bucks for A's, 5 for B's, Nothing for C's, If he gets Ds or Fs, even one, he owes US money. This has helped him keep his eye on the prize so to speak. He usually saves up all the money from his report cards and buys something big with it. He's been doing a great job. He's gotten honor roll for the last five marking periods. YAY!
Good luck, it's so hard with one boy, I can't imagine having three!
You have gotten a lot of good advice. We lived through 14, thought it would never happen and got off of our plateau at 15. Now my former I thought he might not live boy is a delight. I do totally agree it's time for counciling at this point. If you can find one in your area, James Dobson's "Bringing up Boys" was a life saver for me. I learned a lot about what it's like to have boys and what they think. I grew up with all girls during my teen years so I hadn't a clue that many behaviors I thought were bad were normal. Some friends of our have the rule that whoever doesn't do their chores correctly in a timely manner is the one assigned to stall mucking, if everyone does their part mom mucks and they order pizza. It has really improved how her boys do their chores since the boys love making mom do something yucky.
There are some good ideas already, but in addition to some of them, I would strip their lives bare. Take it upon myself to gut their room, take away any video games, put a password on the computer and if you can, your tv, so they can only use these with your permission, if they have a cell phone check with your carrier to see if it has parental block you can apply. Its your responsibility to give them food water and living space. You are not required to give them comforts. Let them slowly earn the things you have taken away -or if they regress take back again.
You might need to go to a dr/counselor to see if they need help for a behavior.
I hope whatever advice you choose to accept helps you out. I hope you get the outcome you want/need!!
J.
