When Does One Stop Getting Disappointed by an Alcoholic Manchild?

My husband is a recovering alcoholic. He has had lapses. But when he does, he picks himself up and gets back to work on his sobriety. As long as I believe he is making an honest effort at sobriety, I will continue to be supportive of his efforts. If he quit trying, I would leave.

Oh, yes, indeed, you are describing co-dependency. Very often, a co-dependent, enabling woman was raised in a family where she saw/felt/experienced codependent behavior on a daily basis, and it became "normal" for her. Women like that go through the world with neon signs flashing over their heads that can only be seen by addicts seeking enabling relationships. Because they are marked in some psychological way, they will continue to find the same kind of relationships, over and over, until…

They join a 12-step program, like Al-Anon, or get counseling focused on codependency.

Then they can begin to form new, healthy relationships. And to show their children what a healthy relationship looks like. I've been there, and came through it with help and support. I wish this for you. Life and love can get so much better than what you are living.

I have a close friend whose husband has been in recovery for the past two years. She was miserable for many years before that. He didn't get himself into recovery until he realized she was serious about getting her life back. He had to experience the pain of alcoholism outweighing the pain of recovery. That involved realizing he was going to lose everything if he didn't get himself some help. Alanon was a big part of their healing. I highly recommend it.

Go to Alanon. Its an anonomous 12 step program that is for people who's lives are affected by an alcoholic family member/friend etc. You will get all of your answers there. Best wishes.

M

I just want to start this out by saying that I have experience with exactly what you are talking about, being in a relationship with an alcoholic, and I got out. I walked away.

But not until I had given this man 16 years of my life, and so much more...

For me, it took the birth of my son to finally push me over the edge. I had hoped that our son's presence in the world would be enough of a reason for him to want to get into recovery, so I allowed him some time to come to this realization, but sadly, he didn't. Oh, he loved his son to the ends of the earth, but the addiction and the mental illness that went with it was just too strong. So I left him. I was/am so afraid for my son, in that he may already be genetically predisposed to deal with the afflictions his father deals with, so I sure wasn't going to stick around and also let him LEARN how to be an alcoholic from his father, like his father learned from his. It had to stop, so I stopped it.

Throughout our relationship, I often reflected on why I stayed with this man, and for me, it wasn't about my self-esteem, I had/have plenty. I know my worth. And it wasn't even about the roller coaster, where we'd have these euphoric times, then bottom out... our relationship was never in the euphoria phase... it was generally pretty rough, to ridiculous. So why did I stay? I could not abandon him. I truly believed he needed me, that I was the best thing in his life, and without me, he had absolutely nothing. And in large part, this was true. But what was also true was that I was enabling him by staying. I was inadvertantly allowing his behavior to continue because I stayed, and I kept things together. So yes, codependency definitely had it's claws in me. The guilt I felt for potentially abandoning him outweighed any potential damage I was doing to myself, or anything I was giving up by staying.

But thank God for my son, because he is the singular reason I found the strength to do the absolute hardest thing I've ever done in my life to date. Walk.away. I finally felt responsible to someone more than I felt toward my ex. My ex was an adult making choices. My son needed me to be strong for him. So I was. It was agonizing, but I vowed to be the mother that my son needed.

In the aftermath of me leaving, my ex bottomed out, and due to some really poor judgement resulting from his alcoholism, he ended up spending some time away. And while that experience was excrutiating for everyone involved (including me, as I still do love this man as a friend and the father of my child - like family), it was the absolute necessary catalyst to bring him around to recovery, which brings us current.

My son finally has the father he deserves. A sober, dedicated, attentive, loving man who would hand his life over for his son. I knew he was in there, but he was just buried beneath all the muck.

In some ways, I feel bad that I waited so long to leave, because I can more clearly see how my staying perpetuated the situation. I'm not blaming myself for his behavior, I know his choices were solely his. I wish recovery had come much sooner, but I am so abundantly thankful that at least it came. I know that relapse is possible, if not probable, but I am choosing to be cautiously optimistic... and if/when it happens, well, we'll deal with that chapter the best way we know how, with the added knowledge and insight that these last few years have allowed us.

So that's my story. I've been there. And I'm ecstatic to say that I've made it through to the other side. But I wouldn't have made it if it weren't for my son. He's my reason. He's my everything.

I think your asking some great questions, but you're leaving some out.

When do you stop settling for less then what you deserve?

Do you want your child (or children) to think this is what a man should be?
That this is how a man should treat a woman and his family?

Do you want your children to disrespect and degrade you, because you allow this man to?

If you know you are going to leave, what is the point in staying?

If you know you are worth more, then why stay with someone who degrades your worth?

Are you as addicted to this person, as the person is to alcohol?

Do you want to be the kind of woman who is co-dependent on a man who is not dependable, just to have someone?

Are you proud of who you are, when you are with this man?

Personally...I would have left long ago, to be honest. I know I deserve more, and I want to set a good example for my kid.

An addicts addiction is not something you can fix or wish away.
He loves his addiction more than he loves you.
Every time he goes back to it, he chooses it over you.
So you need to leave him alone with it.
He's not a child - stop seeing him that way.
It's not your job to raise him.
He is an adult and responsible for his own actions.
You have to stand up for yourself and say "I deserve better than this",
believe it and then act on it.
Some people will try to rationalize staying with someone like this is better than being alone, but staying with him is WORSE than being alone.
Things can get better - for YOU - when you decide you are going to MAKE it better - without him.
His problems are his alone and he's the only one who can fix them.
He may never do it. You just have to leave him to what fate is in store for him.
Be an active force in your own life.
You won't regret it.

at this point in my life i can look honestly at someone like that, wish them well, surround them with light, and walk away. but that wasn't always the case.
both my dad and my dh are recovering alcoholics. both have been sober for decades now, but it wasn't easy back in the day (more with my dad than my dh, who was never really a problem drunk.)
but it's a lot easier to be confident and detached about it from this perspective. if you're young, desperate and in any way dependent, it's a lot tougher.
al-anon is a lifeline in that situation. one MUST learn to let go of feeling responsible for changing the other person. it's not going to happen, and it's a big hard lesson to learn.
khairete
S.

I was in a relationship that was very emotionally abusive. When I tell people about it, they can't believe it. I am a strong willed and very independent person. I think part of my problem was he really knew how to be charming and romantic when he wanted to be. I was young at the time, only 17, but then again so was he at 19. Just like you it was a roller coaster ride, I even had people tell me how lucky I was to have such a romantic boyfriend, that obviously loved me SO much. But, then the hurtful comments came, the anger and jealousy. He did everything in his power to separate me from friends, family, anyone that would take his control of me away from him. At the beginning he wasn't like that, it wasn't till after we were engaged that his true nature showed. I would just be ready to leave when the tears and apologies came, he would beg and I would cave. My best friend told me that she didn't like the person I had become, and that was the start of my wake up call. One day when I was supposed to go see him I realized that I was dreading it. Wake up call number two. Finally on my birthday, he came home two hours late, when we were supposed to be going to dinner. I was upset and told him so, then he yelled, "Don't look at me like that, you are making ME feel like the bad person!" He stomped off to the bedroom. I got up, put on my shoes and left. I never looked back. I wanted to, I mean REALLY wanted to pick up that phone and call him. It was the first time, he hadn't called to make it all better, I knew he was waiting for me to say sorry, though I hadn't done anything wrong. That was the final straw for me. I never made that call, he never called me. Best decision I have ever made. Sometimes there is no fix, he won't change, and you have to decide if you want to live like this. Trust me there are better people out there. I know it's scary to have a baby on your own, but trust me the stress of having someone like that in your life will make it SO much worse. I really wish you the best.

You walk away, when you have had enough and can recognize that, and the harm it does to you and/or your kids.

Some people, just hit rock bottom and that is their 'signal' to leave.
It is an awakening.
A realization.
In which, they then act on it and know, their walking away is "final." Not just a temporary fleeing.
And when you know.... this is not the life to keep on doing nor to teach to your kids or yourself.
There is an end.
When the other person cannot keep you in their lasso. Anymore.
To realize, that.
It is then, a sense of freedom.
And of a new life, in which YOU can, direct.

I'm sure you have gotten all these answers already (didn't take time to read the responses), but yes you are co-dependent which is enabling him. He is not going to stop until you do. Everyone always says the addict won't stop until their reach their personal rock bottom. Unfortunately, for you,it is the same thing. You have to reach your rock bottom before you can give up and walk away. No one can tell you what or when that will be, but hopefully you will reach that point. It is not healthy to raise a child in that environment and there will be long reaching effects to the child. I know this sounds harsh, but read the next paragraph.

My personal rock bottom--when my 3 year child woke up from her nap and her Dad wasn't home. She gave this huge sigh, and said "Come on, Mommy." I said "We don't have to go anywhere, baby." Her reply "Yeah we do Mommy. We have to go pick up Daddy's car." (You probably already got this, but yeah he was an alcoholic who liked to drive when he drank and had had several DUI's. She was so accustomed to Mommy having to go get his car out of impound that she just knew we had to do it. You want to know the real kicker? She was right!! Couple hours later I got the call from the police dept. to pick up the car yet again.

I wish for you the strength and courage to get you and your family thru this. You sound like a strong woman who wants to believe in the best about everyone. Please start believing in the best for you and your child too! You guys are more worthy of it than anyone else you know.

The best advice? Here it is....your husband is walking around out in the world....you just have to bump into him. You cant do that wth dead weight.
You WILL meet him one day...you just dont know when...
The sooner you belive that, the better........

"When does one stop getting disappointed by an alcoholic manchild?"

For me, the answer is, when I stop setting MYSELF up for disappointment.

I do not get to control other people's lives. I do get to choose how I react to events, situations and my feelings.

For me, the disappointment didn't start with their drinking/using, nor did it end with their drinking/using, because the disappointment didn't JUST come from grief over the damaging results of a loved ones addiction. It also came from the damaging results of my co-dependance.

The problem, the dysfunction and the disappointment, came from my choices (too). Often, I chose to be the victim of my circumstances. That was on me, not them. No one get's to make me feel anything, although our behavior and others behavior certainly has consequence and impact.
Having unreasonable expectations or an agenda for ANOTHER person was, for me, damaging. Putting trust on those not able to trust themselves was, for me, painful. "Helping/supporting" someone who doesn't want it, is for me, a waste of energy.

"Co-dependancy", for me, is about being a martyr without a cause. It is about trying to control others in order to escape my demons. It is about trying to validate myself through victimization rather than survival and love.

It's like if I were to know I had a hole in my pant pocket but still putting my money there. Then, getting upset when it drops out and blaming my pants for my loss!

For me, it takes two to tango. I don't get to change anyone but myself. But in doing so, and in letting go, I am able to feel free.

Also, I find this helpful:

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Go to an Al Anon meeting. They will teach you to respect yourself and not let him bring you down.

Hi S.,

It would be easier to give you good input if you had more information in your profile. However, based on what you have described, (pregnant by a drunk that you don't love), you don't walk away, you RUN as fast as you can and don't look back. If they man has a job and is capable of paying child support, do through the courts.

You owe it to your unborn child and to yourself to devote your pregnancy to your good health and well being. Once the child is here, create a stable life for your baby and yourself.

Stop asking yourself, "WHAT WAS I THINKING?" Start THINKING positive, take your journal and get away!

Blessings...

you stopped getting disappointed by an alcoholic manchild when you remove said manchild from your life!
I was raised by an alcoholic abusive dad, please remove yourself and kids asap, and get yourself into alanon, I never went but am thinking about it all these years later, it will cause several issues in your kids lives in the future if you don't separate them from it. One being they will expect and accept being dissapointed by people in their life, and forgive way to easily.....atleast thats what its done for M.! If you ever need to talk, I'm a judgmenet free zone right here=) I hope you get what you need in order to leave!

You'll be disappointed by him as long as he's in your life! I suggest removing him from it and freeing yourself of the disappointment and inevitable anger and frustration that brings. You're not doing yourself or your kids any favors by staying with an alcoholic. My mother and her older brother were the youngest in their family and got the full weight of my grandfather's alcoholic years. Her mother wouldn't divorce him because back then nice women didn't do "that." I guess it was so much better to be abused and live in a shack with a loser. My mom said the happiest year of her childhood was the year he disappeared and they thought he was dead. There are horror stories far worse than that out there too from kids who lived with alcoholics growing up! Your feelings are very important too, but if you're not going to do it for yourself, get your children out of that relationship. He doesn't have to be in the picture.

By staying, you are enabling AND co-dependent.

You cannot apply typical logic to a situation dictated by O. sick person's insanity.

Stay or leave--the decision is yours. Have your eyes wide open either way. Any *attemp* at change (by the addict) without help (detox/recovery) is futile, so don't put much stock in that. Why would you think during the UP times that he is changing without any type of help? Magic? Sorry, that doesn't exist in the case of addiction. YOU need to understand he's not going to put down the bottle O. day and not pick it up again. An addict needs help when they are ready to admit that they need help. Believing the word of or promises of an addict is, plain and simple, foolish. You can love an addict. But be realistic and learn HOW to love an addict.

But you can go to Alanon for support and education on dealing with/loving/living with an addict.

Good luck to you!

It is miserable to love someone with an addiction. Unless the person with the addiction wants to change they won't (except to get worse over time).

If you don't love this person and know he has an addiction why are you buying in to his lies and fantasies? The lies are part of the addiction.

It is easy to feel vulnerable while you are pregnant but that is not a good reason to stay with someone who is not able to be a responsible adult and parent. Get counseling, go to Alanon or just read up on how addictions work. Hopefully that will help you have the strength to do what is best for you and your baby. Good luck.

My best friend (not my husband) is the alcoholic in my life. I just try to be there for her and i am 100% honest about my opinions about her life and relationships( when solicited). Ive offered help by going to meetings with her, not drinking around her, and things of this sort.

You have to think very hard now about how bad the alcohol makes him, and how willing he is to work on it. You can stay in his life, his misery, whatever it may be but you cannot ,in good conscience, subject a child to it.

Al-Anon! Al-Anon! Al-Anon!

Here's a short book that helped me understand: The Power Of People: Four Kinds Of People Who Can Change Your Life, by Verna Cornelia Price

I've been in a relationship with a depressed, angry, bipolar, drug using man for 27 years (affair, living together, married, now divorced). He is also intelligent, funny, deep, caring, a great father, and a sensual lover who loves me unconditionally. There's my dilemma. We live separately now so I can keep my sanity, but he is in my life for always.

Sometimes it is too hard to walk away when you have a connection with that person. A lot of times we give chances until we are completely drained. When something is effecting us it seems to appear different then when it effects someone we love. This is why people that love us can see how bad the situation is before we can. Whatever the paticular circumstance you are dealing with is, try imagining it effecting your baby. If picturing that tells you to get out of the relationship then do it before it does effect the baby.
I know it is harder then it sounds. Im going thru this myself with my mom. She has been emotionally draining me for decades but I just can't cut the ties bc of the good times that eventually come around. Sending prayers your way to be strong and make the best decision for your family.

The part of your post that struck me the most is this: "Pregnant by someone who you don't love and who has a alcohol problem SUCKS!"

Honey, if you don't love him then why are you with him? Alcoholic or not if you don't love him and there's no chance of it then you owe it to him, yourself, and your baby to move on so that you and baby-daddy can be successful co-parents.

I think you also could really benefit from individual counseling. You have a lot of questions about why you're "doing what you're doing" and one way to get to the nitty gritty answers is to get into counseling. It's better to get all of that sorted out before your baby is born, don't you think? That way you'll make better choices in the future for yourself and who you choose to make babies with.

You won't get to a point where your like okay it won't get better... at least it didn't for me. I had to PRY myself from my ex and our situation... most of it was because my daughter was born and I wanted to protect her. I had to keep myself from believing his lies and empty promises when he begged me to come back (again). You will always WANT and subconsciously will believe him that he'll do better and change, because you do on some level love him... it's like a love/hate thing.

I couldn't stand my ex with a passion but loved him beyond belief too. It's a horrible state. Some of it does have to do with self-esteem, you get high off those moments because you feel like, he loves me because I'm so awesome, then things get bad and you (on some level) start doubting yourself. Until you walk away, cope, go through the pain and grief, and start a life without him that roller coaster will enable or disable some aspects of your self-esteem.

Coming from my experience with it anyways, but I was part of the abuser wife who wouldn't leave club :P til my lil one came along. When I told myself I didn't want my child in the situation I was in, I left. If he didn't hit her (referring to my ex), I still didn't want her to think it was normal for a guy to beat up on a girl. I was with him for years... from your other post you say your in a relationship with someone you don't love... girl, just stop. You have to know he is toxic... you were asking about common sense mothering and stuff, that's one. You got to hold your head up and walk away for your baby sweetheart. He will forever be a toxic waste in you and your poor baby's life... just like my ex would've been.

When the pain of staying becomes greater than the fear of leaving, then you are ready to be free.

You don't stop getting disappointed by an alcoholic until the person stops drinking long term. Until then you are trying to convince yourself that things will change when deep down you already know they won't. (as evident in your post)
You are about to become a mother. You agreed to this committment and that includes providing a loving safe environment . This isn't about you anymore; its about you and your baby. Drunk adults and babies are never a good combination. Could you forgive yourself if anything ever happened to your child in his care ?
As a child of an alcoholic I know the alocholic has to change themselves and that won't happen until they want to; 2mths 2yrs or 20yrs from now.
He will be more of a hinderence than an help when the baby arrives. Make a new life for yourself now because it will be a lot harder to make the break when the babiy is born. He will know your serious about what you will and won't tolerate and you will see how important you and the baby are to him based on who much he is willing to change..or not. If ytou decide to stay then use the time to save as much money as you can.
Best of luck to you with your baby and creating a healthy life

I have a friend who was madly in love with an alcoholic among other things, 24 years ago, knew it, ran off to LasVegas with him. After she found him in bed with another woman. Got pregnant. Had the baby, still found him with other women, broke up with him, got together with him, broke up with him, you get the picture and I lost track of her for possibly fifteen plus years. Then found her. And she IS STILL MARRIED TO HIM. But she doesn't live with him. She has not changed her life one iota, supported her child who stays with dad an hour away when she feels like, while my friend, the mom, has two jobs to take care of her daughter, sends dad money apparently when he needs it and is doing nothing /has done nothing to change and make her own life better. She has spent twenty something years ('I STILL LOVE HIM') she says, waiting for HIM to change. He hasn't yet. Perhaps he will but will he be back to Her? who knows. In the meantime she has two minimum wage jobs,her car was recently broken then possibly repaired and she works both day and night. For what? You love and addiction are two different things. She is addicted to an addict. And in whatever way alcohol tears him down, her addiction to him is tearing her down. She could have married again, had another family and be living comfy about now. Instead she chose this path, really seriously, who else could she blame, because she 'loves' him. It is definitely about being co dependent. If you fast forward, my friends life can be a lot of co dependent's lives. Those who love addicts of all kinds. It is wearing and debilitating and you do not have to CHOOSE this. Please go to AL ANON and get some help. And take this decision one day at a time to have a peaceful life for your family.Stop this cycle of teaching children to behave this way. And seriously, life with alcoholics is an adventure and an adrenaline rush. Much like drugs or alcohol, it changes our body chemistry from good to bad to good. So it is Exciting.Try to enjoy BORING for a bit. It really isn't so bad.