Need Perspective Once Again

Join Al-Anon. Al-Anon is for the families of a substance abuser. You will learn the tools you need to handle your M..

I'm sorry you are going throiugh this but it is not your fault. You did not make your M. start drinking or do anything to make her keep drinking. She has poor coping skills -- this is HER issue not yours.

You said you'd had counseling -- good for you!! -- but are you still going?

Have you ever also tried support groups for family members of alcoholics? Al-Anon is the group you want. You really, really need to have this talk with folks who have been there first hand and had loved ones who are alcoholics; and you need to do it in person, not just here on a forum. There are Al-Anon meetings all over the place, at many different times of day. These are the people who have been through or are going through what you are right now. They will have many things to say that can help you and maybe help your M.. You probably can locate a meeting somewhere near you today or tonight. Don't wait.

Go to Al-Anon. The meetings can help you gain perspective on your alcoholic mother and how to deal with her. You need boundaries and distance from the issue for a little while. Stop taking on her problems as yours. Get to a meeting it will help!

This is NOT a post telling you what you should do. It is just to let you know that I understand.

My father was an alcoholic. He was a very nice drunk, very friendly and loving when he was drunk. Still, I couldn't stand his drinking. He would call me in the middle of the night telling me what a wonderful daughter I was. I had to take my phone off the hook because he kept calling at 3am. We went through a phase when I was in my 20s when I was angry with him all the time because he was drinking all the time. He was irresponsible in all areas of his life, but he was a kind man. Finally I got to the point that I realized he wasn't going to change, and I had to accept that. I learned to love him for who he was, and I simply accepted the fact that he was an alcoholic. If he ever wanted to get help, I would have helped him every way possible, but he didn't want to change. He died almost 8 years ago, and I miss him every day. He drank himself to death. I'm so thankful that we were on good terms when he died, though. If the situation were different and he were causing problems for my family, that would have changed everything, but he was such a nice man. My oldest son adored him (although I never left him alone with him because of the alcohol), and my youngest never really knew him because he was too young.

Sometimes you have to cut toxic people out of your life, but sometimes you have to accept people for who they are. Only you can make that decision. I'm so sorry you are in this position. It's an awful place to be.

Ditto everything Hazel W. said.

Your mother is unwilling to accept that SHE has a problem. It is HER problem... it is NOT because of you or your kids, whether you allow contact with her or not. These are the choices your mother is making. She has to accept her responsibility for her own choices and admit she needs help, and then take the steps she needs to to get it. She is simply using your boundaries as another excuse to indulge her addiction. If not you and your kids visits, it would/will be something else. Don't allow her to make you feel like it is your fault. It is not.

When any addicts in their disease have their lips moving--they're lieing.
I know she's your M. and you love her, but it's true.
If she wasn't "depressed" and drinking, shed be "happy" and drinking.
Addicts will use any handy excuse that applies to try to apt logic to their insanity.
You cannot love your M. well.
Tell her you will drive her to a safe detox if she calls and asks.
Take care of you & your family.
You're right, she could die from alcohol withdrawal.
Very risky.
But the fact that she's tring to do this Ali e shows me she's not ready.
There's no "fence sitting" option here for her.
Until she admits she needs and asks for help there really is NOTHING you CAN do. Except attend Alanon.
Let go of the feelings of guilt and responsibility and control.
Those are for your M..
(Of course, if at ANY time, you feel she is a danger to herself or others, you should call 9-1-1 immediately.)
Clearly tell her she needs to be IN a program, WITH a sponsor to see you OR to call you when she's ready to go.
Attend Alanon in the meantime.
Could take days, weeks, months, or years.
I have seen people vontinue to drink/use WAY past what would be my Rick bottom.
Good luck. You're on the right track.

You do know what you need to do, it's just very, very, very hard. Stick to your guns, all the research, therapists, and counselors will tell you the same. If she drinks herself to death, it is not, I repeat, NOT your fault. The addiction is very real, but the choice to overcome it has to be her own. Your kids will not save her, just as you cannot save her. All prolonged contact will do is draw out the illness as she finds new excuses to drink. The health of you and your children have to be the priority right now.
Someday she may get clean. Until then, know you are doing the most loving thing you can.

Most importantly.... YOU CANNOT FIX YOUR MOTHER. Your Mother is responsible for herself. You are NOT responsible for her.

It is healthy that you are learning to protect yourself.

You have good reason to want to cut her off but you do not have to cut her off completely if you don't want to. You do need to set boundaries. strict boundaries for purposes of self-protection and the protection of your children.

I'd advise you to continue to work with a counselor. If it is decided the best way is a clean break then go for it, but I bet you can keep a relationship and learn to do so within reason. You do not have to speak everyday and you do not have to stay on the phone if your mother does not behave. You do not have to be sucked in to her crises. A good counselor can teach you techniques of self-protection and what is reasonable. You don't have to decide today to cut your M. off forever and you don't have to be a part of an unhealthy relationship.

I don't know if you're in counseling, but I would definitely get some counseling for yourself.

You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped.

And this guilt of yours is not healthy for you or your kids.

When you get the help you need, you may be able to help your mother, and be healthier for your family.

I empathize with you. My father is an alcoholic. He refuses to get help. It seems as though he has gotten worse since my parents bought a new home. I don't know what to do either. But I leave it to my mother.

I stopped feeling guilty about it as a teenager. Every time I tried to speak up, it only made things worse between he n I. And being the only child out of the four that ever spoke up, it wasn't easy. I realized I had to stop trying to get him help and focus on myself.

My mother is a recovering alcoholic. She quit after finding God. I am so thankful for that. I can only hope that she will guide him to recovery. But again, you can't help those who don't want it. And he's made it clear that he isn't ready for recovery.

Just take care of yourself and your family. That is my best advice.

I'll be praying for you, your family, and your mother.

Best of luck to you. God be with you.

Edit:
Sorry. Just reread your post and realized you said you had a counselor. Sometimes it's hard to remember everything you read when responding.

I hope you are still getting help and that you have a good counselor that can help guide you away from your guilt.

stay firm in your resolve. She is not a drunk becuase of anything you do. she is a drunk becuase she is a drunk. You can blame family tendencies, mental illness, or wahtever. But the real deal is that nothing NOTHING you do has the power to make her stop drinking. Only she does. Do not allow yourself to be guilted into anthing.

Your responsibility is to your children NOT your mother. Your mother had a responsibility to you that she did not honor. Do not break your covenant to your kids in order to enable your M. further. I've seen familiy members get sober and stay sober for the rest of their life, and I've seen family members drink themselves to death. In neihter instance was it becuase of something done or not done by another person. She can "give up" without your kids in her life - but she made that decision when she continued to drink.

As for going into rehab and losing her job - what is worse - to lose her life to alcoholism, or to become sober and lose her job - which can be re-gained at some time in the future? But last I checked you can sign her into a rehab center - she has to do it herself.

Good luck mama. This life aint easy is it? Pray - God does care about the details of our lives.

Her choices are NOT your fault. Ever. That includes drinking herself to death. By the way, remember that we all die, one way or another. Dying isn't an if, it's a when.

However, the only thing I can say is, do you need to cut her off? Can you just make the rule that you will not enable her, but that you and your kids will see her at times when she is sober? I mean really, does it matter if she goes home to drink, as long as she is sober when she visits with your family?

Are you cutting her off in order to try to force her to be sober, or because she is unpleasant when you see her? Because if it's the former, I don't think that's the right reason to cut someone off. We all have the right to live our lives the way we want, and if that means we want to drink ourselves to death, that's our right, as long as we do not endanger or be cruel to others while we do so.

So if your M. is pleasant when you see her, then I don't think you have a right or a need to cut her off. If she makes your life miserable when you see her because she's a drunk, then that's a reason to excommunicate her.

If she can be a drunk and function and keep her job, then it's her prerogative to do so, as long as she doesn't drink and drive.

So evaluate what you are trying to accomplish, before you go through with this.

Addicts of any kind can be extremely manipulative.

You can't help her if she doesn't want to help herself. BUT, you can get help for YOU.

Have you ever seen the show "Intervention" on the A&E Network? I watch it all the time. It's fascinating to see how one person's addiction can make entire families sick. Sometimes interventions work and sometimes they don't, but the main thing is for other people to know it's okay to disengage as a matter of self-preservation. Your M. can throw guilt at you, but you don't have to let it stick.

Nobody wants to be on a shame spiral alone. They will drag others down with them. Sadly, they might not even see it because their addiction is so strong and of course, having any reason or person to blame for getting drunk out of their mind takes the responsibility off of them.

Get help for yourself because you can't fix her and you can't make her choices for her.

Best wishes.

First of all please try to not feel either guilt or responsibility for your Mother's issues. You've gotten some great advice about how to help yourself. I have some for your mother if you choose to continue to help her.

I could be wrong, but I believe that alcoholism is a disability, and medical condition and is covered not only under FMLA, but also the Americans with Disabilities Act. If I am correct, that means that she can't be fired for going to rehab. In fact if she has insurance the cost might even be covered. I would check with your local office of health and human resources for information. If they don't have specifics they should be able to direct you to someone who does.

Having a parent who is an alcoholic is difficult and heartbreaking. I truly wish you the best.

Have you gone to Alanon and gotten yourself a sponsor?

They helped me with all the issues you have - cutting someone off, whether that's right to do; feeling upset; feeling guilty; always trying to "fix" someone else.

Try Alanon, get a sponsor and start feeling better. :)

I responded once and said something to the effect of don't cut her out entirely because your kids will resent you for it. While I still think my point has merit, , I think what you are doing is TOTALLY HEALTHY AND APPROPRIATE. She has been able to do this for so long because the people in her life have not provided her with any consequences. You are doing her a favor by insisting on good behavior. It is the only chance she has left to change. And it is all on her. You owe her nothing but love - she is not entitled to you or her grandchildren in her life. If they are REALLY all she lives for, then she will make the right choice. The truth is she may never ever change. Or she may die of her disease. She may die having not seen you for months. But you being strong is her only chance of change. You need to prepare yourself that it could go either way, but don't let her legacy be that you should have done things differently. Stay strong. Make rules and stick to them.

stick to your guns. if you need contact to not feel guilty. i'd write letters with no phone or physical contact. i wish i did that with my dad.

he was an abusive alcoholic until i was 26...he went sober during surgery and J. started drinking occassioanlly again. i'm not holding my breath to find out if he becomes a full on drunk again

First and foremost you have to remember that your M.'s sobriety can only happen if and when SHE wants it to happen for HERSELF, not for you or for her grandchildren. She has to want it for herself. "Forcing" her into a rehab program is useless by all counts. ONLY SHE CAN HELP HERSELF RIGHT NOW. You are doing the RIGHT thing by using "tough love". I absolutely would NOT allow her to spend time with your children until she is healthy. She will undoubtedly try the guilt trip on them as well, maybe not intentionally, but most likely. Your children absolutely do NOT need that, on top of just trying to be kids in today's world. She's your mother, she's an adult, she makes her own decisions. She is being the absolute most selfish a person can be right now. And blaming you for her weakness is a complete and utter copout. She is being abusive and taking advantage of her role as a "mother" (which BTW, I use the term loosely) by blaming you, her only child, for shutting her out. Obviously you've been more than patient and understanding. You've stood by her for years, and no doubt during those years, you have encountered more than your share of problems between you and your husband. You have to put you, your husband and your children first or you are no better than she is. Your kids deserve a M. that can be there for them 100%. Protect them when they need it, even if it's from family. You are dead on when you say, it is up to you now to break the cycle. Your M. makes her own choices. If she's a "functioning alcoholic" since it sounds like she has a job, that can be the worst kind. They don't think they have a problem just because they aren't on the streets, homeless or because they can carry a job and keep a roof over their head. I've lived this life, I know what I am talking about. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE put your children and marriage first. Do not let her destroy those things. I will pray for you and for your mother. I will pray that you have the strength to stick to your ultimatum and I will pray that your mother gains the knowledge and sight to see what she is doing to herself and her loved ones. Alcohol is a strong enemy, but the human spirit is stronger. God bless and please keep us informed.

I wanted to add that I should have included the Alanon piece. They are a wonderful organization that have helped thousands of folks deal with the illness of a loved one. They will support you in any way possible and will always be there for you. For me, it was a comfort, but let's face it, they can't do the work for you. You have to be the one that ignores the phone calls and messages. The one that tries to go to sleep at night without a guilty conscience. They have ways to help with that, but the bottom line is only you can put you first. Again, my prayers are with you!

You can't "force" her into rehab. I suppose you can make her be confined, but you can't force her to get healthy. She has to hit rock bottom and make that decision for herself. As much as you want to help her, you simply can't. Your M.'s boyfriend is being unfair to you. And your M. is being unfair to both you and your children. They don't need to see her like this.

You have done what is right for you and your family. Seek an Al Anon group and they can help you with your feelings of guilt.

My M. is not an alcoholic but has mental health issues that fall very similar with the guilt and the devastation and stress that her presence in my life causes. I recently had to stop all contact and ask my mother to not contact my children or husband. I had to do this for myself and my sanity. I became part of her illness and it enveloped me as your mothers is taking such a strong hold on yours. Our number one job as women is to be strong and there for our children and husband. Most importantly I see it as a person on the plane...the oxygen mask must be put on me before I tend to children or anyone incapable of handing their own...therefore, I need to be healthy, strong and clear in order to act reasonably. When I removed myself from the situation the anger left. Sadness came and I still pray always. I do not talk to many people about it because I do not want others to remove themselves from her life. This is my journey and not about her or anyone else...totally about me and my family. With time and professional help I look forward to possibly having a full and reasonable relationship with my M. when she is able to get the help she needs and deal with her issues.

If you haven't attended alanon or a co-dependent group you should go and get support. If you are able to go to a program like the Betty Ford family program I have heard wonderful things about it. It might just give you the answers that you need to remove the guilt and understand that her illness is just that and until she addresses it, you may have to alter your relationship. If anything, it will help you with your sadness or guilty feelings when you make decisions such as the one that you recently made.

I feel for you and in a way understand your dilemma. I am 43 and have felt like since I was 17 have been the adult in my M.'s life...it was nice to let go of that responsibity that weighed me down with anger and resentment.

The best to you and your family, including your mother.

BTW: Hazel wrote to you...she is an amazing woman. She helped me with my M. when I was going through it just by chance...there is always a reason for certain people being your lives even on a site...cherich the words and accept the support.

Hi,

I too was a co-dependent. It took alot for me to finally have enough. The addict or alcoholic will suck the life right out of you and you will be no good to yourself or your family. It is very hard to take the first step but once you do it is like a heavy burden is removed from your shoulders. Your moms' boyfriend can keep you informed of her status if you feel the need to know.

Alon teaches you that you are the priority and the alcoholic needs to take responsibility for there own actions. You are not pouring that drink for your M..

Work on yourself first and if and when you can have a relationship on your terms you can invite her back into your lives. The red flag went up when she failed in taking care of your child. I know you are an only child and that is where your M. is guilting you. Most companies will work with the alcoholic to get well. Remember she is good at major manipulation and will use any means to not get help. You also cannot force her into rehab she has to want to stop for herself.

Alon is a great place to start. The have meetings and support for you and your family. Remember you are not the only one being affected by your mothers' alcoholism. The cycle and the madness can stop with you.

God is on your side in this. If God is not your higher power than find one that can be.

Much luck to you.

The guilt does NOT belong on your shoulders, okay? She's your mother and you're the one who feels the responsibility, but the bigger responsibility right now is to your husband and children. They need stability and safety and sobriety.

Her sobriety is her responsibility. Her way of coping with her alcoholism is her responsibility. If getting clean and sober isn't her own choice, if she doesn't hit her own rock bottom and make the choice herself to get treatment and ask for help, forcing her won't help her one single bit. And while she's choosing something other than sobriety, she's making the choice easy for YOU to stay away.

Dear R.M.
First and foremost, please accept this e-hug.
I have been in your shoes and walked the thin line between taking care of myself and my children and taking care of an alcoholic M.. It is heartbreaking and I will not trivialize your experience, but there IS an answer. It is found in Al-anon where so many of us go to find strength, serenity and hope. I urge you to contact the local Al-anon office and get a list of meetings. Many provide babysitting. All provide comfort and an opportunity to heal. The only way to protect your heart and those of your children is to practice detachment.
I wish you much happiness.
L. CK