Need Help with Uncooperative Children

Hi,
Don't know if this will help or not, but when my older boys were that age I started making them run laps around the yard, house, whatever worked until they were good and tired and when they were fighting or just being aggressive with each other I made them do push-ups and sit-ups...(a set amount for each of them at their physical level)...usually by the time they were done with either of these they were a little more cooperative! :-) Another thing I've noticed with my children is that any form of "screen time" has a direct affect on their behavior, so that has always been strictly limited. Good Luck and Hang In There!!!

Chris

Have them hold hands the whole time they finish their chores; kiss each other on the cheek and say they're sorry. Has worked wonders for my kids.

Have you tried love and logic? Our kids get an allowance every two weeks, it is a set amount. I ask them to do chores one or two times, if they don't I say "then you can pay me do do it, I 'd be happy to take care of it for you". Now this is not totally full proof, my 9 year old really resists chores and has lost alot of money to us and it does not seem to phase him sometimes. It does help though. And this is all normal, I see people with perfectly well behaved kids and wonder how that is accomplished! Just remember that whatever you do now sets the ground work for later. I know how frustrating this can be, you are not alone!

When my kiddos were younger we had the "Store". How that would work is anytime I was at the store I would find little toys or trinkets or candy that was on sale or clearence and I would buy it. I would then along with my husband we would price the items and put them in a container.
All of my kiddos had a jar with their name and picture on it. Every time they did a chore without being asked more than once or if they did something very nice for someone else they got a green stone. For everytime they didn't do there chores or the faught with a sibling or said a mean thing to someone they got a red stone. At the end of the week we would count out the stones. Every red one canceled out a green one. The person with the most green stones would get to "shop first" We would let them know how much their stones were worth and then they could "buy" there item. If they didn't have enough for what they got they could "save up" or pick something smaller.
We found this to be very successful. They were always trying to find extra things to do to earn extra green stones just so they would be able to be the first to pick.
The jars we got were a heart shaped. we got these at walmart. The stones we used were the ones you buy for like a beta fish tank. We also got those at walmart.

Good Luck!!

Set a timer for ten minutes and tell them to clean up as much as possible in that time. Then they can have free time. If they don't, tell them they will go to bed a half hour earlier. Do this as often as needed and the mess is out of control. Everytime they don't do it, another half an hour is added on.

I found that if they have time for fighting that they have to much energy. I used to make my kids run around the block. If they are still fighting send them twice as long. It got them in good shape. If I was mad enough I would get on my bike and chase them around the block so they would not stop when I couldn't see them. It works and they still talk about it!
C. B

I hate chore charts. I would throw them out and boss your kids around. Stand over them and tell them to pick up, vacuum, whatever. Ask them what they want to help with, and if they don't have ideas put them to work on what needs done that day. Work with them and try to make it fun. Teach them why we clean, talk to them about it.

Sounds like they need more consistency. Hard to discipline all if just one is misbehaving. So you must withold all toys, all the tv, and put them in a room together without those things. Believe me, they will want to come out so badly they will do as you request.
This is how they handle things in some classrooms. If someone takes something, the whole class stays after until it turns up. If someone in the classroom is not being quiet, the whole class has to wait after class...etc.

Hope this helps.
Also, it is vital that you reward good behavior. Like going for ice cream or a hot wheel car or something they really enjoy.

Blessings,
C.

I would say you need to find what their currency is -- what ARE they motivated by? For my daughter, that might change every day. I figure out what she wants next, whether it's stories, time with me, a TV show, whatever, and then tell her she can have that after she completes the job I want her to do. It always works when she's got her mind set on something she wants! Good luck.

Hi D. - wow - how frustrating all the things that you have tried are all the things everyone usually does...and its not working...
One of my very best friends has three boys who would fight and fight and what she found out that worked was more affection. She took time each evening to give them a back tickle and would spend a few minutes with them before they fell asleep. It works really well, even now that they are teenagers!
She also gave them plenty of time during the day to be active and move their bodies and that helped too. She then modified what was expected of them and they started to do their chores again.
Its important that you and your husband agree on what works for your children as far as chores, bedtimes, disipline etc. Kids pick up on the discord not really well and if there is any discord within your relationship with your husband or a lot of stress and tension, your kids may be acting that out.
Hopefully this helps -

You need support. Come to a Love & Logic parenting class. I have one starting in Stapleton on Monday night 9/22. Check my website www.shellymoorman.com for more information. We talk about chores, consequences, getting cooperation, power struggles, sibling rivalry. Don't stay frustrated, take action, and join other parents in the class with the same struggles so you don't feel so alone.

Try setting aside each day 30 minutes of one on one uninterupted time with each child. I have found being a single parent and at home my kids act up to get my attention more then anything. Stagger bedtimes so that each gets your own personal attention before bed, asking how their day went and so on.
Grounding doesn't work here as my kids are too little, what works for us is the three chance rule. First offense (has to be fighting, defiance or being disrespectful) a warning.
Second offense, jammies no matter what time it is (my daughter has been in jammies as early as 1pm!), then last and final is bed, NO MATTER WHAT TIME IT IS. I do allow them if it is really early to come eat and brush teeth then go back to their rooms. They have to lay in bed, NO PLAYING, no nothing just thinking, if they happen to fall asleep great.
This system totally did a turn around for my 7 year old and my four year old that seem to have fought all summer long and tattled, ignored me and so on.
My daughter three times over the summer had to be in bed at like 3pm, now if she gets to chance two she is walking on eggshells and on her best behavior as her jammies are a reminder how close she is to her final chance being blown.
I had to be tough, endure the crying, screaming from the bedroom, begging to come down, apologies and begging for one more chance. I have told my daughter many times, "You blew your chances not me, so tomorrow you can come back down and start fresh." I explain she being upstairs in her bed is her doing not mine.
It really works. Just this morning, she got sassy and started up with her little brother, I said very calmly, "you know that is one down already and the day just got started, I suggest you stop now so you aren't in jammies after school"...done over with and she was fine.
Sometimes even during the day she will ask me at what chance she is at, or she is ultra proud going through a whole day without any chances blown.
I don't believe in allowance, I tell my kids that doing their chores, picking up after themselves is part of what families do together and everyone has to help. I believe instead of rewarding continual good behavior.
It may or may not work, but I am certain spending one on one with them, allowing them to have your undivided attention and also empowering your oldest to be the GOOD EXAMPLE will help some.
Good luck. I too think my kids are pretty great however I can say there are days that I am spent from hearing the arguing, them not picking up their stuff.
Another tool I use is giving them choices.."if I have to pick up your stuff it is gone for a long time maybe forever, so I am giving you one last chance to pick it up yourself!"...they know I mean it too as I have put things in a garbage bag and in the garage many a time! :)
Hang in there!

How exhausting for you, D.! I would recommend reading "Love and Logic Parenting", by Jim Faye. They have it in the library, and even have it on tape/cd if you are too worn out to read at the end of the day. Best wishes.

Hi D.,
I have four girls 9,7,5,21 months. I feel your pain! Here are two things that have worked for me. My two older girls share a room and I will NOT clean it. So, I try and help them in the right direction. First make the bed, ok now pick up all the books, now all the clothes. It helps them not to feel overwhelmed. Second I just split them up. If they can't work together them I put one in charge of the bedroom and one in charge of the bathroom I often hear do I have to pick up her stuff, it's not mine! I kindly remind them that I wash clothes and dishes everyday that aren't mine and we are all a family and we all work together! Good Luck!

Hi D.,

I would be creative with my discipline. My parents never grounded us. They always came up with something unique. And family and friends would send their kids to our house for awhile when they were out of control, because my parents had a knack for getting a grip on them.
My cousin Desi admitted when she got older, that the reason she stopped getting in trouble was because of the punishments. She never knew what her punishment was going to be, so she didn't take the risk.

When all of us got out of control and my mom just couldn't stand it anymore, my dad would give us an "Orney Weekend". She usually would leave and do something for herself and leave us with Orney Dad. The whole weekend was chores, no free time, no friends, and dad on us the whole time.

All of those time consuming little chorses that you don't get to and don't like, each of those can be a punishment.

Good Luck,
TRUDI

I've been having the same problems. Three kids, 10,7,5 (girl, boy, boy) and they are suddenly fighting and not wanting to do their chores, too.
First off, keep telling other people, and yourself, and your kids, how great your kids are. What you put energy into is what will come back to you. They will want to live up to it!
Next, take a step back. I'm betting that this behavior started around the time that school started. They have a new teacher, new classmates, new environment (especially if your 5-year-old is now in Kindergarten). All of this causes a bit extra stress, which can affect their home behavior too. But they feel safe enough with you to act out (read: they know you love them).
What I do to deal with behavior: Warnings (I count backwards, they always know when I get to 0 they're out of luck.) Immediate consequences for fighting, verbal or physical - time out in separate chairs across the room or in separate rooms works. You have to do this every time they fight - zero tolerance - and anyone involved is in timeout - no "he started it" stuff. I go for natural consequences for chores - you don't clean your room, I take the toys away; you don't do your laundry (10 year old) or don't put clothes in the hamper (7 & 5) you don't have your favorite clothes to wear; you don't put away your helmet, i'm not finding it and you can't ride your bike. T.V. doesn't go on EVER until homework and chores are done. Again, it takes consistancy, but they will see that you mean business. And, after all, they ARE great kids, so they'll come around soon, right?

Hi D.,

You have such a great crew!!!

I am thinking why things changed in their ways of doing, and I believe the difference in the age of your boys at this very time of their life feels bigger: 8 years old boy may be interested in things that the 5 years old boy is not! later, it will change again, you just watch this fluctuation,
it is normal, and see what you can help to make the transitions to go more smoothly. Your younger son will soon be in the same line of interests that the older is interested at again, and they will contact better, then there will be another gap, around their adolescence time, that gap will be even bigger, and then they will grow big, and stay friends for a lifetime. My sons are 2 years apart, and I saw these transitions also, and my own brother is 3 years old: I remember how sometimes we were playing together a lot, but at times, I was not in his field of interest, with my childish games...
I wrote some examples of how things were going on in my family, I will copy-paste ou that story,
and also, I will give you the link: there are much more advices: I hope you will be able to pick up some more ideas :)

because

there have been conversations based on the question that you ask.
Before I will pass you on my advice,
allow me to say something that does not quite fit into the picture of the contemporary society:
I raised kids without allowances, but taught them to be caring, loving, AND also hardworking WITH JOY. I had an exclusive situation with my sons though, as they grew up in the mountains, in the total wilderness,
(here is the whole set of the photos about where we lived, and of them:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/niravameen/sets/721576067542...
) so we did not have stores around, and the money-issue was out of not only the question but even their life. My boys were introduced to the society at the age of 10 and 8, and by then they had a well developed good character, when they did not COUNT what how and when they can help in the house: it came up naturally: they were washing floors, dishes, sometimes socks :), helping in the kitchengarden, cooking with and without me and so on... It did not happen out of a blue though: I really worked on it, and here is the example, please see below.

Money was circulating in our family like this: "Mom, could I have ... please, as I want to buy an ice cream (go to the cinema). Mom" "Are all your chores done, homework ready, and did you help anybody today?" If I got three positive responses (they never lied), then they got their ice cream money and some extra, 'just in case". Once in-a-while I gave them some money, and they lerned to use it wisely, by conversing with me: is it worth spending money, or is it better to save some more and get something more expensive a bit later... Once my daughter wanted a stuffed dog which was way too expensive. I said this is not a wise decision, and anyway we do not have such money. She started putting all the money aside: I often gave them all the change, for example. She also went to the store with me sometimes, and ran to that stuffed dog, hugged it, and always dug it deeper into the pile of toys so that nobody else could find her treasured 'friend', and finally in TWO MONTHS she had about 2/3 of the money to pay for that dog. As her desire was so huge, and she was so consistent with her decision, I added the necessary amount. She is 17, the dog is still 'alive' on her couch. :)
So, in SOME sense they did earn money, but not straightforwardly, like 'you do this, you earn this much'... I was concerned that if they do things FOR money they might always wait for reward, and this is not an idea of happiness to me. There are times when an urgent help is needed, and people around should be able to provide this help just because they CARE, not for any reward.
Okay, this is how we worked it out, I will copypaste what i wrote earlier, answering the similar question:

actively engage them into all cleaning and dish washing and such things: when I needed to wash floors, we turned the house into a pirate ship, and spilled some water on the floor, as if the huge waves washed the deck over, and we took turns who is the captain and the captain gave out orders (not only you alone do it!) how to clean up the floor, how to wash, what corners were missed and what else can be done so that all is sparkling. The sailors, under the captains' guidance (you in some cases) can also have a word to POINT OUT TO THE CAPTAIN what he missed while ordering around, and of course the captain must HELP the sailors, not only just being a chief commander, as if he does not help, he loses the authority of the sailors and they won't obey him...
when I needed to clean the room up, all the surfaces full of eee... whatever, you know, then I did it thus: absolutely EVERYTHING from all over the room, goes into one huge pile in the middle of the room, on the carpet (floor): papers, toys, books, dishes, uneaten snacks, EVERYTHING. Everybody helped to do it, ans it was fun as you do not need to apply your brain into such cleaning, just all from everywhere goes into one pile. Be careful with liquids and chocolate/ketchup only, as you do not want it all wet or stained. Now, what do you see?
A clean room!!!!! One task is immediately accomplished. What else do you see? Now, the next part stARTS: THIS IS CALLED A "TREASURE HUNT": you can make it more fun if you take turns, and one at a time, you close your eyes, and pick ONE OBJECT from the pile of 'treasures', and decide (together or alone) where would be the best place for this object. garbage? Fine, run take it to the bin. Upper shelf? Great, climb up and put it there... and so on. If your 'crew' had a lot of energy, make then run all over the house to place things up one by one. If you all get tired, you can make smaller piles around in the circle: garbage pile; bedroom pile, kitchen pile, and once all sorted out, put all the bedroom pile into a plastic baggie, walk over there, and take thing one by one, placing them into places.
This way, your house is clean, you teach the kids to be caring, neat, happy, communicative, creative, and all are happy.

I copy- pasted this my response from here, http://www.mamasource.com/request/8359052428103909377
look maybe you will find more great advices, there are good responses there.

and here is another link:
http://www.mamasource.com/request/12660689709631012865
with more conversations about it...

All the best to you and your family, D.!
M.

I have twin 8 year old boys so I feel your pain! We have followed the principals of Love and Logic. I would recommend those to you if you haven't read any of the books. Probably available at the library, written by Jim Fay and Foster Kline. There are two efforts you could try. One is pay them allowance every week - not tied to chores. Just hand them money because it is "Friday" or whatever day you choose. THEN if they won't do their chores you charge them to do them. When the boys were toddlers it cost them a quarter to have mommy do their chores. Now it is the contents of their wallet - or they are welcome to do them for themselves, their choice. And if they fight you can tell them that they are stressing you so much that they can either stop or pay you to tolerate it, their choice. The crux here is that they need to be taken shopping with the first money. "Buy whatever you like honey, it's YOUR money". A $5.00 pack of gum - super! A $5.00 Backugan - fabulous!! They need to get used to having and using money for them to miss it.

The second one you can try is the "pickup only what you want to keep". This one can be tough - on you! Because you are much more tied to their stuff then they are so you have to be willing to get rid of all of it! They pick up 6 things and leave the floor barely visible. You come in all smiles (my hsband was FABULOUS at this) with a large black trash bag and pick up EVERYTHING else. Very soon they will be down to almost nothing. Here you can choose to allow them to earn back toys, books, clothes what have you with good behavior OR you can just donate everything and let them live without for a couple months. We had GREAT luck with this back when the boys were around 3 or 4. NOW - they can pick that floor up SPOTLESS! They do not want us taking THEIR stuff - so they take care of THEIR stuff. Now we only have to throw out a few Pokemon cards and you get their attention in our house!

In our house we practice Team Family! We all do our chores at the same time - 2 hours, every Saturday. The boys have chore lists posted behind the bedroom door and they picked their chores - with some help from me. So I don't argue, I say "is your list done?". They go check the list and ususally go "oh ya, I forgot to take out the recycling" and off they go. But this is years of consitent message. Not every week goes smoothly, but now more go well then go bad. But every week is the same thing. Dad participates too, he runs "the Power Tool" (vacuum) and since that is his job he motivates the boys to get their floors picked up ALL THE WAY.

I hope these help you and understand that this has been an effort in our house since the children were two but it has paid off HUGE for me as now I only have a few chores that I have to do! The rest is being handled by the other humans that share my living space!!! I will pray that your family finds success with your efforts and that you find harmony in your home!

Hi D.,
A great book is "How to talk so your kids will listen and listen so your kids will talk" I think "engaging cooperation" is the title of the chapter that would be great for your situation, of course the whole book is awesome and easy to follow and a quick read, kind of a self/at home workshop. I haven't read the other book, "siblings without rivalry" but it's by the same duo who wrote the first and may come in handy for you as well.
T.

Hi D.,
The advice I have is to stay calm and stay consistent. As you have learned first hand, punishments don't work. Children learn which behaviors get them the most positive results. So look for a positive consequence for completed chores. Decide on something that your boys value, TV, Playing Outside, Playing with friends, Computer, whatever it is. They absolutely do not get to participate in that activity until their chores are done. Then you wait them out. You can tell them, calmly, that they can play when their chores are done. You are a broken record, just keep saying that with no other discussion. Make sure their chores are independent and do not involve each other. Perhaps in a different part of the house if possible. You will have rough days(maybe weeks) but eventually they will know, in absolute terms, what is expected if you stay consistent.
I hope you find something that works for you. Take care,
B.

OK, so I have the same problem. It must be something in the water because both of my kids are having behavioral issues. My sister turned me on to something that has been working for us really well. It rewards postive behavior rather than focusing on the negative, and it is entirely the kids choice to be rewarded. It is called a pyramid chard. So you take a piece of paper and draw a large pyramid on it. Then take a ruler and divide the pyramid down in inch incraments. The tip of the pyramid is one block. The second line of the pyramid is two, the third is three blocks, and so forth. Then at the top of the paper you write a goal that you and your child have decided to work on, like with my daughter, we decided that she needs to work on staying on task in school, so that is her goal. Then you give specific rewards for each tier on the chart (they have to complete the tier before getting their reward). For the first tier, keep it simple, like a piece of candy. When they achieve thier goal the first time, they get rewarded instantly. Then they have to achieve their goal twice before they get rewarded again. Keeping the rewards small and simple (like baking cookies with mom, a frosty from wendys, time on computer/game/tv, ect) and on track with what they like will encourage them to meet their goal and not be a big hit on your wallet. We started this a week ago, and we have seen great results. My daughter has a hard time concentrating in school, but since we have implamented this chart, we have been getting a lot of positive feedback from her teacher. I hope this helps you and if I was confusing, please send me a note and I will try to explain it better

Heather

Wow, I'm sorry you're having such trouble!
Here are the two things my mom did. I know they work, because they worked on me and my 3 siblings!
First was a giant bucket of candy. On Saturday morning, we had a list of chores we had to do (separately) before we could play or go outside or see our friends. She also posted a list of requirements for each chore--for example, she hung a list of the things we needed to do to clean the bathroom (clean mirror, wipe counter, scrub toilet, etc.) so we wouldn't forget everything. When we were done with our list, we got to pick candy out of the bucket. If we finished before noon, we got "double dips," or two pieces. My mom would call out "15 minutes left if you want double dips!" and count down for us so we wouldn't lose track of the time. It was great because she was helping us succeed.
The other thing was that if she asked us to pick things up a few times, and we didn't do it, she'd warn us that Oscar the Grouch was coming. That got us running, because Oscar the Grouch stole our stuff and put it in a garbage bag, and we didn't get it back for two weeks. And on top of that, we had to do an extra chore, designated by my mom, to earn each item back.
My sister does something that I've adopted for my younger kids (they're 2 and 4). I say I'm getting out the vacuum. That used to be so fun and exciting for them that they'd clean up really fast so they could help. But now they are afraid that the vacuum will suck up their toys and they won't see them again. It's sad how great it works.
And my great friend taught me her chocolate chip race. My son asks if we can do it! For every three toys he picks up and puts away, he gets a chocolate chip. And since the word "race" is in the title, he does it fast. That, and he knows that there's a limited number of toys, so he's competing with his brother to see how much chocolate he can get.
Or we set the timer and see how many he can pick up in 5 minutes. Usually, I say that if we work really hard, we only have to pick up for 5 minutes, even if it doesn't get done. So we run around like crazy and do all we can, and when the timer goes off, we all get to relax.
I hope some of my ideas will help you!

Hi,
Chore charts never worked for me and mine for more than a week or two. When my kids would get totally out of control I sat them down and asked them if they loved me. Of course they said yes. I then explained to them that I needed their help. I couldn't clean the house all by myself and that is why they had chores. I told them that I loved them but that if I had to do all the work then I would be unable to do things for them and with them. Now all I have to do is sigh and when my kids ask for something I just say I don't have time because I'm doing their chores. Works for me.