My 7 Year Old Son Hates His 5 Year Old brother...HELP!

I do not want to presume to know what to do in this difficult situation as I only have one small son... but I am reading a parenting book right now that addresses this sort of issue. It is called Parenting by The Book by John Rosemond. He says we over-analyze why our kids act the way they do when what we really need to do is address the behavior. With that said, I would also be VERY strict about discipline, and would not tolerate any rude words or behavior from your older son to your younger son. Your 7 yo should know that this behavior will not be tolerated anywhere to anyone, especially a family member. The book also says that moms should not blame themselves for their children's behavior (or always take credit and boast in their good behavior!) I noticed that you said "my children get plenty of attention from me" and that implies that you have thought about what you might have done to have caused this. I think as moms/women we have a tendency to try and take the blame for our children's behavior and although we certainly can influence their behavior, we are not the cause of it. So please don't blame yourself. It sounds like you are a great mom!!

Lastly, this does sound like an extreme case so it might be wise to get a therapist involved. However, just be cautious that the therapist doesn't try and psychoanalyze too much!

1 mom found this helpful

I have to agree, this is not normal and you should definately seek out some counsling for your son.

There is a book called "Siblings Without Rivalry" that might help some. It's a classic. Your situation sounds pretty intense, though, so I agree that you should consider seeking out professional help - a family therapist or counselor.

If I were in your position, I would encourage both boys to speak openly to you of their emotions and not scold them for how they FEEL. (In each other's presence, however, you can insist on some degree of civility). It sounds like you are already allowing the older one to talk openly about his emotions - only he isn't bothering to wait until the younger boy is out of earshot. Do your best to shield the younger one from the cruelties of the older one. If the older one is NEVER allowed to talk about his feelings, it may fester inside him and make it even harder to get to the root of the issue. Steel yourself, though, for when he talks about his darkest emotions, it may shock you to the core.

Many children who grow up hating each other can become very close as adults. Sooner or later, in almost any family, some crisis or adversity may throw them together -
force them to rely on one another. Even children tend to overlook small hatreds when they feel they are up against something they don't they can handle on their own, and things like that can often bring fighting siblings together. (Not that you would ever wish for a crisis, but it can be a silver lining, and offer you some hope in dark times.)

You are very good to actively get involved and not just simply throw up your hands and say "Boys will be boys!", as so many other mothers have done since the dawn of history. I hope you can help them find their way out of their hostility soon. Good luck.

I also recommend getting some type of family therapy for your child individually and also for the whole family together. My cousins hated each other as kids and everyone thought they would outgrow it (especially because it was 2 girls) but they are now in their 30s and still hate eachother which also effects their kids relationships with each other. Therapy now might help them at least get along with each other and be able to respond to each other appropriately even though they may never be best friends. Good luck.

<<K. says: While you are searching for and scheduling therapy (a must I think for the safety of your 5 year old), >>

Oh, Amen! I've heard of instances where such ideas were acted on - badly...It could never happen, but it could happen - especially w/ so many 'examples' of ppl taking action on their feelings that show up in the news these days.. Children are very impressionable by what they see, don't have the self-control that adults do, and also don't have the maturity to see that their actions could have permanent, horrible implications.

Please get him some help. it can't be fun or happy for him to have these feelings either. It's got to have a negative impact on his attitude and self esteem to have these horrible thoughts!!

Please keep us informed - we're praying for you and your family!

Some people just "click" and some people just don't like each other -- siblings included. So they may never be each other's best friend but they certainly can learn to have respect, compassion and Philia (greek) for each other.

Your older son needs to understand that while he may not be really affectionate for his younger brother, he must be respectful and kind to him. But that's where counseling comes in. I totally agree with your instinct to get them in couseling! My guess is that there is a lot more to this than simple "bad" chemistry.

I found this on dictionary.com:
Philia (φιλία philía), a dispassionate virtuous love, was a concept developed by Aristotle. It includes loyalty to friends, family, and community, and requires virtue, equality and familiarity. Philia is motivated by practical reasons; one or both of the parties benefit from the relationship. Can also mean "love of the mind".

Go with your gut and the experiences you have had and seek help from a therapist. Forget about those who do not believe you because what is happening is real and you know it. Go sooner than later.

I'll be praying for all of you. Hope this helps, S.

I've seen this happen to a lot of other kids...bad fighting and I've always been amazed how 'well practiced' the kids were at fighting. They seemed like pros! :( My husband came from a family of 5 boys and they were rarely stopped of their fighting. They are now in their 40's and 50's and none of them are close. OF course they tolerate each other, but no one calls each other on the phone, etc.

Our two oldest are 9 and 10 and are both boys. We don't let them fuss with one another. I never wanted them to 'practice' until they became good at fighting. We nipped it before it got going. Siblings fuss with one another and it's pretty normal, but they need to learn how to deal and communicate with one another. If you are at a loss, I too would recommend getting them help (both of them) and reading up on how to turn this around. It's never too late.

www.loveandlogic.com has some books on this very subject.

There are a couple of things that I do when my boys start fussing with one another....I'll say, "I'm not listening to this for free." They know that if they don't stop that moment, that extra chores are coming. If they have that much energy to fuss, they have that much energy to do MY chores, not theirs...if they have money, I'll take that as payment to hear a comment that they've made to one another. Or I'll say, "you guys are draining my energy." They'll usually stop, because that means, more chores. lol.

There should be less talk and more action. Kids shouldn't get more attention when negative things are going on....they should get less attention from mom and dad when things like that are going on. If you 7yo is needing attention, this is the perfect way to get your attention.

Another thing that I hear in what you wrote, is possibly the 7yo is feeling left out. I would take turns as parents and visit with each of your children once a month every month without the other child. They each need to feel special. Go get a treat with the 7yo, just mom and him.
Talk, visit, have fun. Then dad does the same thing that very month. And then vice versa with the other one.

Don't shelter the 5yo, if that is what is going on. Don't compare the two of them, they are each their own special individuals.

Kids can say the meanest things when they are feeling 'less of a person'. He sounds like he needs some attention and positive attention.

I hope this helps! Good luck!

Wow K., That is so sad for everyone involved. While you are searching for and scheduling therapy (a must I think for the safety of your 5 year old), I think you should try some serious positive reinforcement.

Praise him for every small nice (or just not mean at first) gesture he makes toward his brother. Tell him how much you love to see him being nice. Don't let him get your attention when he's being mean. Say something like.. 'It takes so much of my energy to discipline you when you're mean.' When he's nice say something like, "Wow, I love it when you're so nice and caring, I'm so proud of you." Give a big smile and hug.

At this point any negative reinforcement, scolding for being mean etc.. will only make it worse.

Also, this is important, post the house rules where everyone can see them:

1. We are a family and a team, we always help each other.
2. We never hit or hurt each other.
insert your own here...

Take away his video games, bike, toys anything you have to each time he physically hits his brother. Make sure you keep them for awhile (a week for example). Or give him chores, if he won't do them then keep the toys. You are in control. He's only 7 now and will only get bigger.

If every time he hits his brother he loses priviledges, toys & attention then it will become no fun to torture his brother any more.

Try a 'Love and Logic' lecture or CD.
www.loveandlogic.com

It really helped me. Please keep us posted.

I would definitely pursue therapy. This does not sound normal to me, and I am around a lot of children. Even if siblings don't "click," they must be respectful to the people in their lives, especially their family members. Your son chooses to behave at school, even with those he is not necessarily good friends with, so he can learn to control this and behave at home. He has gotten away with this and will keep it up unless things change. I think a therapist will be able to guide you both. In the meantime, I hope the websites below can give you some help as well. One has a lot of articles about family relationships. The other has a free pamphlet called 3 Simple Ways to Become a Happier Family. I wish you the best.
http://www.providentliving.org/ses/emotionalhealth/0,1228...
http://www.comeuntochrist.org/request-free-materials.php

I totally agree with another post. You must put forth some type of discipline with your children when they begin this fighting, arguing, and name calling. Counseling may be a good idea as well, but your children must be taught respect for you and each other. Is your husband helping with this issue? He needs to step up and sit both of the boys down and talk with them. There are siblings that fight, argue, etc. but this seems to be getting way out of control. Before something tragic happens I would start disciplining BOTH children NOW and get your husband involved as well. Most importantly you need to pray and ask others in your church to pray for you and your family. The enemy is of hate but our God is a God of love. May God's love guide you and I pray for peace to come into your home in the Name of Jesus.

Well, my sister and I hated each other with the passion you describe when we were your boys' ages and all the way up through high school. I was older, but I was hated more by her than vice-versa. It wasn't until we both were in colleges far far away from each other that we finally matured enough to get past it. There was a lot of jealousy and unspoken self-esteem issues that my parents were completely oblivious to and didn't know how to handle. My parents gave up and just tolerated our anger and inability to be in the same room together, which was like giving it permission to continue. In retrospect, I wish that they had disciplined us MORE. I disagree with one of the posters. I believe stronger discipline and letting your older son know that his behavior and his feelings are not okay and it is his responsibility to fix them (with your loving and supportive help) are an approach you should consider. In your situation, I would make sure he spent most of his waking days in his room with no toys and no entertainment until he was capable of joining the family and being a part of it with a smile. I also think I would find ways to foster more love in him by praying constantly for him to find the love God made him to share. I would also teach him to pray and to understand how strong God's love is for him. Jesus was the epitome of loving your enemies, but without some faith to back this up, you are going to have a hard time teaching your son the value of the Golden Rule. Use examples in your own life to illustrate how even though we experience anger and hatred, the person we are angry at often does not deserve our wrath. Therapy is a great way to find concrete ways to handle day to day situations, so that he starts to learn that he has to let go of his wrath instead of directing it at your younger son. Bottom Line: your son needs an encounter with God through prayer and a parent who teaches him that his feelings and behaviors are not acceptable. I am praying for peace for your family.

Walk NO run and get a therapist even thou is normal for brothers and sisters to have dispute it is not normal that he is leting you know that he does not feel nothing for his brother is something happens to him....I will get help for the family ASAP. Wish I knew of someone I could recomend but I do not. Good luck and please keep us posted.

Has he said why he feels this way.Isa he not getting enough attation from his parents.I think it would be a good idea for a therapist.It might just need to be you and him first to see the therapist

My husband has had plenty of experience with dealing with kids in teen intervention programs. First, he recommends you talk to your pastor, their could be some kind of spirit that is on your oldest son. And no, this is not normal. He is too old to feel this way since your son is 5. I do think you should also seek a therapist...and quick.

Hi K., I'm sorry about all that you are going through. I wish I knew how to help but there are two things I'm not clear about. One, you say you're a stay at home mom of three... what part does the third child play in each of the boy's life? Two, where is dad? I'm assuming of course that there is a dad in the picture because you are a stay at home mom. I think you definitely need to find someone for your oldest to talk to. whether it's a specialist or maybe an adult that he feels close to that he might confide in. My neighbor has a nine year old daughter that likes to share some things with me because she knows her mom is way over protective and would just freak so she kind of runs things by me. Of course if it is something that I feel is inappropriate, I will let her mom know. You need to find out why your oldest is so angry. We hear about crazy things that family members do to each other these days so I would be very careful and watch them closely. Really, really find out why your oldest is angry! Good Luck K..

I feel for you, it's got to be very frustrating and I can see why you are so concerned. I think your son does well at school because he has no "personal" competition and at home he does, so that tells me it may be related to you or your husband in some way. Maybe the reaction he is getting from both of you. You don't mention how your husband handles this problem or how you handle it. You can't fool a kid, they are always a step ahead of you. Sometimes when we swear we don't pick favorites, believe me the child knows different. They feel it deep inside and will react, generally to withdraw or show anger. Obviously I don't have all the facts, but the idea of a family therapist is a great idea. The family needs to go, not just him.
I Wish you much success!

Experience has proven to me that my gut instincts as a mother have nearly always been right. Go with your gut instinct. It's called woman's intuition and I firmly believe God put it inside of every mother for a reason. Listen to it. There is no harm done if you take your family to a therapist for help, but if you do not act on your gut instincts and it turns out your worst fears come true....well, it's worth a trip or two to a therapist, if for nothing more than peace of mind for you. Sibling rivalry is not always harmless. More than likely, it is something less ominous than your fears for the younger child's safety, but why take the chance! Get the help for the older child and the rest of the family to deal with the older child's feelings. I will say this: do not scold your son for expressing his feelings of hatred for his brother, but rather encourage him to talk to you about it, which it sounds like you are doing. Maybe let him know that most older brothers do not like their younger brothers until they are both older, and just tell him he is loved the same as before the younger one was born and always will be loved that much. That said, go with your gut feelings on this one and get some outside help for him and the rest of the family to deal with this.

I am praying for you. I am not sure if you are a Christian. I know there is a battle going on and I believe it is more than you can see. The bible says that our battle is not against flesh and blood.
They are BOTH so precious to God and I am sure you as a mother adore them both. The enemy of their souls hates them. It would be good to get them help with a Christian counselor who believes in this perspective.
But that is my thought.
I know the struggle that we can have as siblings. I could never have gotten through my own sibling rivalry without God. My mom said I bit my sister when she came home from the hospital (I was a 1 year old). I wonder why she told me that as a kid. I thought there was reason to hate her. My sister and I had what I believe is abnormal sibling rivalry. I believe my mom fostered it in many ways.
I pray that God will give you wisdom in how you say things and how you handle this. I believe your words can be very powerful in how this is healed.
Lord be with you and guide you as you seek help.
Amen

I have to second the recommendation for Faber & Mazlisch's book "Siblings Without Rivalry." It is wonderful, funny, and full of eye-opening insight. Combating sibling rivalry involves a lot of couterintuitive knowledge, i.e. the book talks about how first children think their relationship with their parents is an exclusive one, just as spouses do. When another child comes along, it feels to them the way it would to you if your husband brought home another wife. Another thing I thought sounded crazy, but really works (the book explains well, why) is to indulge their fantasies in discussion. So when your oldest says something that seems horrible, like "I hate my brother, I wish he were dead," you indulge the fantasy in conversation with a response like, "I bet you wish we could take him back to the baby store and exchange him." Again, the book does a really good job of explaining why and how this works, and is fun to read with lots of cute cartoons that will help you understand what your oldest is going through, and how to help him.
Good luck and God bless!

K.- I can't wait to read these responses! I too- have a 7 yr old who hates his 5 yr old brother!!! He is completely awful to him- My 5 yr old is also very sweet- and well liked by most people. I also have an 18 mos old little boy- who my 7 yr old love sto take care of and play with- and has also said he wishes it was just us and not "the 5 yr old" I'm soory that someone else has to go thru this! Its so heartbreaking! let me know what good advice you get- also- I dont' know if you attend church or not- but htis does help a "little" when I tell him what God wants us to do and how we should act - also pray pray pray for thier relationship....I do know of a counseling center that is Christian based called Parcalet (sp?) it's located in Johns Creek area - they are on my list to call as well.
Good lUck to you- I'll be thinking of you!
Nikki
mother of 3 boys

Sorry about this. I have 2 girls under 2. The older one is so smart and sometimes acts out in front of me with her little sister. My ped. said to use time out and to give the attn at that point to the younger one. Time out has only happened about 3x. She loves and helps with her little sister.

I would suggest- first- (not accusing)- look at your relationship with your husband. They ( the boys) will mimic this and use tones,words and actions they see. Kids are SMART. If you are not showing much affection or affirmative words with each other-- start now. Do it. Also, find time to do an activity with the older one. Let him know this is his special time with you. Do the same with the younger one. Praise as many have said. It is easy to get frustrated and mad-- but try to remain calm. Talk to your 7 yr old with a calm voice. I understand is a great way to start sentences. I understand you don't want to share your toy with your brother but we need to teach him how to share.
Art Therapy is good too. Look into it.

Good luck and Blessings.

You need to listen to your heart and get some family therapy. In this day and age, you cannot take risks when a child is verbalizing all those negative feelings. I would DEFINITELY go to a family counselor....preferably one certified by the American Association of Marriage and Family Therapisits.......

Hi K.,
I know it's been a little while since you posted, but I felt led to respond. I have an older son (6) who has always been very jealous of his younger brother (3)too. My oldest adores his baby sister, though (1). The rivalry can be really bad, but I have just decided that I will not let it happen. So much of the tone of your family is set by you, and even if there is extreme opposition to what you want, you can press through the difficulties and lead your little ones into the way that is best for them and your family as a whole. Remember how young they are, and how much they still have to learn about life and relationships. I agree with one of the other posters, about attitudes toward siblings mirroring attitudes we have with our spouses. I have definitely noticed that in my family. When my attitude is wrong toward my husband or vice versa, my oldest especially is picking up on that and mirroring it toward his brother.
When my oldest says things about my middle, it is often to get a reaction. Also, his words are based on a momentary feeling and he doesn't know how else to express it. Then it becomes a pattern of reacting/responding in the same ways. He may feel that life would be better without his younger brother, but he is too young to really understand the implication of what he is saying. He is only wishing there was not a rival for his position in the family as the son/oldest. I definitely think there is something about the two boys fighting for their position, for who is the dominant male. Do not accept this opposition between them, and don't be drawn into the emotion of it. I wouldn't talk at length about how he feels about his brother and wishes his brother weren't there. That is just feeding into it and giving his negative behavior attention. I would talk more with him helping him to think about his relationship to his brother and how it will be lifelong, and what kind of relationship he would like to have with his brother and COULD have, if things change. His brother is a fact of his life and isn't going anywhere. When your oldest says something awful about his brother, calmly refute it and help him work through the conflict. Teach them in your words and responses how to work through those tumultous emotions and the anger that rises so quickly, and in doing so you will change their thinking and teach them what it means to be a family and how to work through relationship problems. If the older says, "I wish I didn't even have a brother," respond with something like this: "You do have a brother and he isn't going anywhere. We are a family and in this family we love each other." If he says, "I don't love my brother." Say, "Yes, you do love your brother, you are just angry right now." I would find ways to speak what your family values are throughout the day: "Just because you are mad at one another, doesn't mean you don't love each other." "Brothers are friends for life." "Brothers help one another." "Brothers share with one another." "Brothers forgive one another." "We don't treat one another that way in our family." "Families love each other no matter what." I would also be pointing out brothers that you know who get along and are friends, showing how great it can be to work out differences and learn to get along. "Look at those brothers. They have learned to get along and are great friends. They must have so much fun together." Do not be afraid of what is going on in your family, just calmly deal with it and steer the ship another direction. Set up opportunities for fun activities or outings that can ONLY be enjoyed with both boys cooperating with one another. Set up incentives for cooperation and things that can be accomplished only through teamwork. Use your creativity! Help them look for ways to be kind to one another, do nice things for one another, and surprise one another. Paint a picture for them of what it means to be brothers, to be a family. Be on the lookout and praise ANY sign of kindness toward his younger brother when you see it. If and when there is a moment of goodwill toward one another and you can see that they are actually enjoying one another's company, however fleeting, point it out. Say, "Look how much fun you have together when you are getting along," or "Not everyone is as lucky as you to have a brother to play with." If you are a Christian, pray, pray, pray. The enemy wants to destroy their relationship and the peace in your family. Don't let him.

You definitely need to seek professional help with this. This scares me for the younger child. Do you have a pediatrician? I would be in the office with the older child first thing in the morning.