Looking for Input in *Possible* School Violation

If you're really upset talk to the principal or administrator. Or call the board of Ed. Let them know that 'the way the do it' is outdated and possibly illegal. Then leave it at that.
I have to say if I was in the office and another parent came in with this type of complaint I would think they were overreacting.

WOW, they are way out of line. I would go to the school and ask for that "blanket" permission slip and rip it up in front of them. Five blocks or not, you are the parent. Public schools act like they gave birth to the children who attend, I think not.

I agree with your position,but what remedy are you looking for? They already told you they would make a note to not let it happen again. It seems you have made your concerns known and nothing happened on the trip, so what else do you want to happen?

In our school system, any time children leave the premises for any reason there must be a permission slip sent home and returned signed by a parent. Period.

Those slips include a section the teacher can check that says the field trip does or does include transportation, and if so, what kind of transportation (school bus or charter bus).

There would simply never, never be this situation you describe in our school system. I am amazed that the principal does not realize that the school could be legally liable if anything happens to any child at any time and the school did not get permission slips (which also in essence can be a waiver that protects the school!) in advance.

I disagree with your husband. Wait to see if it happens again? Seriously?
So he's OK with the idea that the school officials are totally blasé and casual about taking your child somewhere and you don't have a clue that he's not at school? Present your husband with the scenarios: There's a family emergency and you need to get your son, immediately. You drive to school...he's not there. There's an accident with the bus and the school isn't sure which parents to phone because there's no master list of kids who were on that bus because...there was no such list made, because it was all so very casual. Or forget the dire scenarios: The problem could be as simple as the bus goes to another location late in the day and ends up coming back to school late due to an accident or road works that fouled up traffic. So your husband is OK with arriving at school to pick up your son and realizing he's not there at all? Or with waiting for your son to come home on his regular school bus and then getting a call that you have to pick up your son because he's sitting in traffic somewhere?

The school says it does it for this one event, but if they do it for this, they are very likely doing it for other events. I would be as angry as you are. It is quite simply very bad policy and it sets up the school to be sued at some point by someone.

Unless you are OK with spending your child's elementary years wondering where he really is today, I would write a formal letter citing the chapter and verse of the regulations and asking the school to implement a policy of written permission forms going home before every trip off campus other than the "walking field trips." Those kids who do not come back with signed forms do not go on the trip--no ifs, ands or buts. That is the policy in our district. I know of kids who did not go on field trips because their parents didn't sign or the kid lost the form. Tough.

Be sure to send a copy of the letter to the school board as a whole and another copy to whoever is your area's school board representative (if you have an elected school board). Be sure the principal knows you have sent them copies, so he or she knows you have already alerted the school board to what is a violation of rules. Schools just cannot be this casual with the whereabouts of kids.

Oh, and you're going to get comments from parents or others about "Don't be THAT parent" or "We have never had any issues and we've done it that way forever" or "Teachers aren't going to like you if you pursue this." It's up to you how much those things will or won't influence you. But I can say that what the school did would be cause for reprimand in our system and (I would assume) in most systems.

Would you be satisfied with something of the following ilk?

Dear Parents,

It has come to our attention that some of you may not have been aware that children participating in the XYZ class were transported via bus, off premises to ABC location on these dates and times. While the teacher and the administration believed and continue to believe this off premises excursions to be covered by the blanket authorization, we understand that your knowledge of the whereabouts of your child during the school day is of paramount important to you. Please advise if you would like a permission slip sent in advance of each off premises excursion. Should you opt for this form of communication, please realize that your failure to timely complete and return your permission slip might result in your child's exclusion from the off premises activity.

See if something to this effect would work for you/ for your school's staff/ the parent body. If the school is right, and everyone is happy with the way things were done, there won't be many signing on for these specific notifications. If you were right, and others were caught off guard/ alarmed, then they'll have a number of kids on this list.

Best,
F. B.

You are absolutely right. They are in violation. I live in IL, my kids attend a PRIVATE school, but they still follow the codes. Each and every time they have a field trip, a separate permission slip is sent home detailing the location and mode of transportation. When they walk to the fire station next door to the school, they have to send a permission slip home. There is no blanket form at the beginning of the year for field trips.

I would be furious, and would be contacting the district superintendent.

Well, I'm of the opinion that relying on kindergarteners to convey plans to parents is really, really *stupid*.

I think there's a big difference between signing a consent for walking field trips and giving specified consent for your child to go onto a motor vehicle. Even back in the 'olden days' when I was a kid, we had to have signed permission slips to go to other schools (even the one just down the road a bit) and to go onto any sort of bus trip. Period.

If it were me, I would be talking to the teacher first, then the principal, and if I felt the issue wasn't resolved, the district superintendent. Personally, as a parent, I would want to know if my child were being driven off campus. (why are they having them go on a bus for five blocks, exactly? Are there no sidewalks?) If I were a *proactive* principal, I likely would have made some statement via a letter to the parents that this oversight wouldn't happen again. The school was too loosey-goosey on their communication with parents. Think about it, what if you were planning on pulling your kid out early for an appointment, but didn't know that they would be at an entirely different site? I think my request to the school would be for a 'series of trips' permission slip and notification prior that the children would be off campus, period.

I can understand your upsetness and concern. I agree they should have sent a note home letting you know that practice would be held at another campus and they would travel by bus. But, the rules you looked up don't really count because it wasn't a "field trip" perse. I think it was more of a class on a different campus with the building for performances on it.

Relax mom! I know it isn't what you want to hear. You are right that they should have let you know he was going. But, all ended well, and I would let the music teacher know that you were scared when you found out you didn't know your son wasn't where you thought he would be. But, if an emergency had happened, they would have let you know where he was.

After the music teacher, I would let it drop, and next year, make a point of telling the other newbie moms and dads that they practice off campus.
It's ok really!

It sounds to me like you are getting way too upset about this. It seems almost like you are looking for something to worry about and you want a fight! Just tell them if your child will be bussed somewhere in the future that you and your husband need to know in advance. Tell them this is very important to you for safety reasons, and that from now on you expect a consent form stating where and when your child will be leaving the school grounds. Send it to the principal and teacher in writing.

I'm sorry but I don't understand what you are wanting as a final result to this. They apologized and stated that they would notify parents next year. What more do you need them to do? They can't go back in time and change what has already happened.

What is it that you are trying to accomplish with continuing to pursue this issue????

So... what are you hoping will happen next? It sounds like it's case closed to me. It happened. You made your opinion/experience known, they validated and said they'd keep it in mind when the situation rolls around next year.

I think you're done.

For the record, I agree, they should have sent out a communication about it, it's surprising to me they are so relaxed, with all the liability and things that *could* happen. But at this point, after the fact, you have to wait a year to see if they actually send out a note about it in the future. They can't go back in time and do it, you know? So I would move on in the mean time.

I wouldn't even consider this a field trip. They are going from one school property to another, via school transportation. "Field trips" are a whole different thing. IMO, this doesn't count as a field trip and as such, doesn't warrant the whole waste of time paper trail of permission slips, etc. Do you have any idea how much a pain in the neck it is to print those, distribute them, and collect the signed forms, hound the kids who didn't turn one in, etc.?

It would probably be an improvement to their best practices to simply inform parents that the kids will be transported to another school but I wouldn't make it a permission slip event, just an "FYI and please contact the office if you have any concerns."

I really think you're blowing this out of proportion.

Five blocks? That is one end of a school to another in some parts. Going to a friends house. Not sure why they didn't walk, weather?

I am sorry but you are blowing this way out of proportion! You have no proof that they were put in any danger, that they weren't supervised, that they were in any different level of care that they normally have. Yet here you are flipping out because they didn't think to send home a permission slip for five blocks.

Let it go

Okay looking at the other responses, that is the distance between one of our middle schools and one of the grade schools. They are separated by a track and field for practices. That is not a field trip, that is taking the kids to the school that is practically next door.

If they got on a highway or any real traffic I would be behind your overreaction but this is a distance they could have easily walked, it was not a field trip.

First this is not a field trip. They were going to rehearse for a program. School to school. I do not see a problem. They did not go cross country!
They went school to school. Very often my kids went from one school to another. It was usually to rehearse a program. Also K was in the high school so the kids went to the elementary school so they could participate.
Never had permission slips, not did I ever feel the need to create a problem where one did not exit. It was part of your sons school day. He is only in K
And you have many years ahead of you. You don't want to be known as "that mother". Choose your battles.

What your school is doing is extremely unusual. They are not going by the rules of their school district and yes, if an emergency occurred, the principal would be in a lot of hot water.

You are not over-reacting.

Your principal has basically told you that this is the way that they do it and gave you a bunch of garbage excuses as to why it's okay.

I think that you should try to find out who the lawyer for the school district is and write a letter to him or her along with a copy of it to the superintendant. Succinctly tell them what happened, what the principal's position is, and then attach copies of the rules you found which clearly supercede what the principal said. Tell them that if something happens to a child, that the school will be legally liable, and that they need to work with the principal to help her understand HOW THE RULES APPLY to her school.

She probably really does know, R.. She just wants to do it the easy way regardless...

That is NOT how it works in our district.

ANY time transportation is involved, a parental note is required. if a parent fails to sign and send in the form, little Johnny does not go to the zoo, field trip, etc.

I am a regular substitute and our schools are very picky about this type of thing.

Also, my daughter was in cheer all through HS and just graduated from HS. I STILL had to sign a form for her to ride on the bus for games AND sign a form indicating if I intended to bring her home with me vs her riding the bus for road trips and games that were held closer to our home.

I would not cause a big stink in the school about this but I would let it be known that I expect to know when my child will be transported to and from the home school... field trips, other school for practice, etc. You have let your feelings be heard.

I wouldn't go any further than you already have with the school principal. Maybe they will "get it" and make some changes or at least communicate better with parents.

I understand your concern of not being made aware (preferably in advance) of off-site practices. I agree whole-heartedly. However, at this point, you are aware of the practice, your son was returned happy and healthy with no harm done...count it as a blessing.

This was not a field trip but rather an after school activity (if I understand you correctly).

As for what should be done going forward...

Talk to the teacher/advisor of this program and suggest that when the paperwork is initially handed out each year for participation they add something to alert everyone that practices are held off-site and the kids are bused. This helps parents that are new to the school and/or new to the program. If a permission slip is required to be turned in, something should definately be included on that.

Do you attend your PTF or PTA meetings? If not, maybe you should make it a point to attend one. Suggest that any/all activities (this one and others) include notification of off-site activities (at the beginning of the program if it is standard or before a special occurance if it only happens rarely)...a separate permission slip would not be needed if it is included in the program notification and/or participation forms. Something similiar to Fanged Bunny's idea but rather it should come at the start of the year or program.

I would take it to the school board and superintendent. Document everything and take the information you found about state codes. A few years ago the 5th grade students where I taught had a scheduled field trip to an outdoor event canceled on the morning of the trip because torrential rains canceled the event. Our PTSA busted their behinds to get an alternative trip to the movie theater into place before school even stated for the day. After they had it all worked out the district stepped in and said they couldn't do it because the permission slips that went home stated they would be traveling to a specific location. Changing the location required a new permission slip.

Hey, I agree with you. You should know where your child is and should have been informed. "trying to remember to put it in writing the next year" is really not good enough. It should definitely be put in writing and if you are the one to help them come to this realization then so be it. Do what you have to do get the music teacher (of which I myself was), principal and other parents to recognize this is for the well being and safety of all concerned. Of course, this should be done in the most respectable manner for them to really hear you. Good luck.

I know you have had a lot of responses but I have not read them yet.
You are NOT over-reacting. I would be very upset about this situation.
It does not matter that "this is the way they have always done things". How are YOU, the parent, supposed to be aware of where your child is, just because "this is where they have always practiced the school program"? You wouldn't.

What would happen if, by chance, there was an emergency situation where you needed to pick your child up quickly, only to find they were not at the school? What if it wasn't even an emergency...perhaps you went to check your kid out of school for a dentist appointment or something mundane like that, and you found out they were actually at another school? That is not ok. You need to know where your child is. I feel like the school violated your trust with this. I would certainly demand (and of course, you can put it politely but firmly) in writing that your child will not leave the school premises ever without your written consent. I would also demand that you receive a follow up call or letter from an authority that will confirm they have reviewed your letter and what action will be taken. If this is not solved to your satisfaction, I would certainly go up the chain of command.

I think as a parent you should absolutely know where your child is at all times. I certainly would give my permission for my child to go on this type of "field trip" but I would want to know where they are and what time they will not be at the school.

There have been times when I forgot to give my child their meds to treat steep throat or a sinus infection and I have just run up to the school with the mess. I would be really mad and upset if I found out my child was not there.

I personally would put in writing to the teacher and principal that my child was not to leave school premises without my permission.

I agree, you should always be notified if your child will be off premises. What if she had an appointment and you had stopped to pick her up? What if....
But I believe you have said your piece, now let it go.

I am the parent. I must know where the kiddos are at all times. This isn't about a trip where nothing happened. This is about the trip in the future that no one bothers to tell you about because they figure 5 year olds will inform their parents, instead.

So, where are they headed next week? Cancun? No way. No how. Demand notification in the future.

For any trip that needs transportation our school sends home a form that must be filled out and sent back in or the child can not go. This form must be filled out for every single trip so that they can be sure a parent knows where the child will be during those times. I would be annoyed with what happened at your school as well.

I would be upset, honestly, if I was asked to sign a "blanket" permission slip and then was not given a head's up about the actual trips. If I send my child to SCHOOL, I expect her to be in SCHOOL. That school. Not another one. If this excursion was in any way covered by the blanket form, they should have notified parents. What if you had an emergency, a doctor's appointment, etc? It has nothing to do with you being a kindergarten parent and everything to do with them deciding that writing a paragraph on a paper to copy and put in a child's communication folder was too much work.

I am not sure what you need to do but I would start by communicating with my child's teacher that I need to know when these events happen in advance. Even if they notify no one else, how can the teacher communicate to her class/to you? Or talk to the PTA. Or both. I would not just wait and see. I would ask for notifications, if there's anything else that "routinely" comes up, etc. Spring is prime time for trips, and you should be notified when your child is not on the school's property. When my child left the preschool for an emergency drill to practice going to another building for shelter, we ALL knew about it. And that was just a walk across the street with the cops holding traffic.

Almost hate to say it but used to be too that there was no such thing as "shelter in place" and "code red" for crazy people. They need to adjust their thinking.

In the schools our son has been to there have always been permission slips that had to be signed for anytime there was a field trip or trip off the school property.
I'd tell the school you are glad everyone had a great time but next time your child is going to be off of school property you want to be made aware of it at least a week in advance and you will be signing a permission slip authorizing his participation otherwise he won't be going.
It seems to me there might be a liability issue with their current system of doing things.
Tell them not just from a protective parent standpoint but you want to see them use permission slips to help protect the school from potential lawsuits.
That should help to get their attention.

When I was raising my daughter and now raising my granddaughter, I want to know where they are AT ALL TIMES! I think this was completely wrong and I would send a letter to the school district superintendent. Heck, there could have been a shooting at the school your child visited and you wouldn't have known to go there! So many things can happen and it is a parent's responsibility, IMHO, to know where their child is, especially a very young child like yours.

This is not okay and I would take steps to try to ensure that it never happens again.

Our schools require signed permission slips for everything and anything that requires them leaving the school grounds, whether it be a bus trip across town or a walk to the next school over. Personally, I don't care where my kids go while they are at school, and would not care if I did not receive all of this notification, as I trust the school with my kids, wherever they may be. Perhaps this was supposed to be a walking field trip because it was such a short distance away, but they decided to provide a bus because it was too cold out.

It is unacceptable. Did they bring children's medications with them? When my son goes on a field trip, the school nurse actually comes along (they have two school nurses). While this might be overkill - I would be furious if my son was somewhere I didn't know about without his inhaler. Not ok at all.

@ SuzT - that is horrible. Certainly deserving of an editorial in the local paper and the involvement of the ACLU if they did not immediately pledge to NEVER do anything like this again.

I think that since you have voiced your concern and the school has said things will change, the only other thing you may want to do is send a letter to the teacher, principal and maybe the superintendent about your concern and that's it. I'm not sure what else you could possibly do - what's done is done. That and I like the person that said be sure and attend PTO/PTA meetings. That's a great way to voice your opinion about concerns with the school.

It's not okay to take children off of school property without parental consent. You have the right to know where your children are at all times.

When my youngest was in 3rd grade, I went on a trip with my own students (3rd graders in another elementary school in the district) to hear the middle school band and orchestra play. Imagine my surprise when I'm seating my class in the middle school auditorium when I see my own son there.

At the end of the day, I contacted his teacher and principal. They pretty much swept the issue under the rug. I do not know if they figured it was okay to take kids to another building in the district or just forgot to send home permission forms, but they are not supposed to take kids off the property of the school that they attend without permission slips. Certainly I had signed permission slips from the students that I brought on the trip.

Since you see that there is a written policy about permission slips, I would contact other parents in the class and see what they think. I contacted the parents of a few other third graders in my son's school, and they also had not signed permission slips, some of their kids came home and told them they'd been on a trip, but there was one mom who was hearing that her son had left his school building from ME. If other parents seem disturbed by this, then I would suggest that several of you take your complaint to the superintendent of schools or the school board. I didn't do this myself because I was afraid of repercussions (I work for the district) and was hoping that some other parent would lodge a formal complaint, but no one did.

Good luck, and I do not think that you are over reacting.

This would SO not be ok with me! I leave my children in the care of the school staff, expecting them to BE at the school. If they are removed from the school, for ANY reason, not only should I be notified in advance, but PERMISSION to transport my children must be obtained beforehand.

I must say, you're handling this better than I would have! lol There are no circumstances under which I would ok with anyone taking my child anywhere without my knowledge and consent. Period. The fact that nothing happened is completely irrelevant. He is YOUR child. And YOU need to know where he is at all times (he is, after all, only 5 or 6!).

Stick to your guns mama....there's no way I'd take the "wait and see" approach with this. Personally, I would inform the principle in no uncertain terms that if my child were to ever he transported without my knowledge and consent that there would be hell to pay. End of story.

This would not have happened at my children schools. Our school security has always been good. However since the shooting last yr at that public grade school. Our school district has become much more strict.
I would not let it go.

I think that this event or specific series of events (the practices) should have had permission slips sent home with a schedule of when the bussed trips to the other location/s would take event. That just seems like common sense to me.

You absolutely are right about this and I think it's appropriate for you to follow through and make sure that changes in this procedure are made. I don't know that I'd be "livid" although I'd be having a hard time holding my tongue at the school's comment about it not being inappropriate or thinking about it as breaking rules "because that's just how it's always been done." Just because something has always been done doesn't mean it's been done correctly.

Wow. I regularly get permission forms for field trips (yes, even just across town) for my high-school daughter. If we don't sign them and return them, our kids can't go on the bus. We definitely have to give consent for our child to leave campus on a bus. I can't imagine a school not doing this. I am not sure I have any great advice, because it seems like your school administration doesn't really care. Maybe contact the school board as well. What if something happened to your child on that trip and you didn't know where he was? And what if you didn't want him riding the bus? I would keep pursuing this until the school agrees to change its policy. It's not normal for a school to bus kids somewhere without notifying and getting consent from parents. Every time.

I am with you. I would be LIVID if I found out my kids left the school property for any reason without my knowledge. Mind you, my kids school is happy to call and tell me that my sister shouldn't talk to my daughter for 5 minutes because she was missing important instruction during that time. Really? My kid had a really tough morning that day and my sister wanted to make sure she was okay. Too darn bad if the school didn't like it. But I'd be beyond pissed if my kid left the school without my knowledge and permission. They are my kids, not the schools kids.

However, you have already talked to several people at the school and they plan to change the way they do this going forward. I think you've done a great job handling it, and it's time to relax. The only thing I would want to do is make sure I have all of this in writing. I'd write an email to the principal telling her my interpretation of everything that happened and that was going to change.

I have done this in several situations with my kids school and it's proved beneficial to me in the long run.

Don't let people tell you you're wrong - it's your child. How you feel is how you feel...and I don't feel like not knowing where you child is when they are supposed to be at school is overreacting in the least.

I haven't read your answers yet but I 100% agree with you. This event called for a permission slip to be signed ahead of time. No way would I be happy with my child leaving the school on a bus without my knowledge.

Let's play just suppose - My DD has asthma. She needed her inhaler quite often in grade school - probably a few times per week. At that young age, the school nurse kept her inhaler in her office as she was too young to carry/use it on her own. What if my DD was on this little "trip" and needed her inhaler??? Makes me crazy just thinking about it and DD is 14 years old now! I'd personally call the school's Superintendent's office and MAKE sure that this never happens again.

It was rather stupid for a school to do this in these 'suit happy' years.

I would not balk. You called them on it.

If they do not remedy their ways, they are stupidx2!

If you signed any sort of transportation notice in any of the forms for enrolling him the school is totally covered. They usually have them in there several places.

I would ask for an enrollment form so you can read over them. I always know when I'm signing a transportation statement.

I do think that they should have had a specific permission sheet sent home and anyone not having one should have had their parents called to come take them home for that time.

They are not going to hire a substitute to watch a few kids who can't go on a field trip. They just tell the parents to keep them home that day. So they should have called you to come get kiddo since you didn't sign a permission slip for this particular trip.

Since they seem to simply expect their permission slips at the beginning of the year to cover any transportation perhaps you can find the statement in the enrollment papers and make sure there's a spot to check off the NO response.

The school absolutely should inform parents any time the children get on a bus and leave school grounds, that seems obvious. I agree with e-mailing the principal. But I'm also the peacekeeper type like your husband and probably wouldn't go any further into it, you really don't want enemies in the school system although they are in the wrong here. Unless it happens again, then I would take a step further. But I'm more of the wait and see type. I don't think its worth anyones time or stress to make a big deal of it, especially if they mend their ways for the future. I'm surprised no other parents have brought up the issue before.

I just read your post and wanted to offer this... Our kids are in an elementary school that is adjacent to a middle school. They walk over to the middle school many times each year to use the auditorium for assemblies (with no formal notice to families). I have never heard anyone express concern about this practice. Your case sounds similar in that children are moving from one district facility to another. Your case sounds different in that distance requires bussing. I urge you to consider exactly what you fear and what you expect. Is it about not knowing where your child is or about not wanting him to ride a bus? Do you want the opportunity to provide express consent for any bussing or do you simply want notification that your child will be at another district location that day? Neither of these seem like they are expecting too much from the district, but you need to decide what to ask of them. Personally, I feel like all district facilities and district supplied bussing provide the same level of security for our children. It also sounds like they really want kids to be comfortable with their surroundings when performing (this is an awesome opportunity that many schools don't provide). I probably would like to know in advance that they would be off-site for a day, but I honestly doubt I would remember it anyway if there was an emergency. Just my thoughts...

Oh yeah, one other thing. Unless you have seen a pattern that concerns you, I urge to do your best to partner with your principal. I have seen much better results when you work together with her to come to a common outcome than when it becomes adversarial. I recommend that you come to a quick decision about what you want from the district and then put that in your reply to her e-mail. Something like "I understand that you have done this for many years with great success. As a parent new to the district, I see things a little differently. Although policy may not dictate it, I would like to see us (whatever you decide) in the future. It would certainly provide me, and perhaps other parents, with more visibility into our children's offsite activities" or your own words, of course ;)

I can see why you are upset and I think you have handled it well so far. I don't think you need to do much more at this point, since it's in the past. My advice would be to reply to the principal's email. Thank her for hearing your concerns and suggest that they send a note home in the future telling parents when the kids will be taken off campus, whether on foot or a bus. I think a blanket permission slip signed at the beginning of the year is probably sufficient (I would be ok with it, though it sounds like your state and school rules may differ). Other than asking the principal to please notify everyone in the future though, I really don't think any other action is necessary and doing any more would just cause problems.