How Do You Discipline Disrespect/talking Back?

it can be a tough line, and we all draw it in slightly different places, don't we?
i tend to be a little lenient with a verbal retort unless it's very rude. 'no! you take a time out!' might result in child being picked up and deposited firmly in the time out chair, in grim silence. but 'you're not my friend' is an angry observation, not *really* sass, so i'd take that in stride.
it actually sounds to me as if you handle it very well. in my older years i've come solidly down in the 'no spanking' camp, but if you must, doing it only for gross infractions is better than it being a first resort.
khairete
S.

I think you are already doing the right thing: Consistent and quick consequences is the key. Finding the right consequence sometimes takes a lot of thought. Keep doing what you are doing. The most helpful thing that I ever read was from an author who said "if they test the limits one thousand times, then you administer the consequences one thousand and one times.". You have to just stick with it until she gives up.

Easier said then done. Keep up the good mommy work!

I'm a Parent Educator. Kids at 4 are testing the limits. When my daughter was 4, I watched every word I said. Remember that she has been watching you and the adults around her for 4 years already.

Kids have different temperaments, too !

With that being said, some of the families I worked with had extra tired kids who would never got enough sleep. Other families talked nasty to each other. In some cases, parents didn't take their kids outside for physical excercise at all. Other parents were giving their kids junk food and sugary juice all day. Many kids were watching way too much tv on a daily basis. Some TV has NASTY "talk" on it. Even the kid shows.

Temperament and daily routines can be factors, too.

Without visiting your home on a weekly basis, I would say to keep the discipline quick and short. Ignore her when she tells you to take a time-out. When she gets up from the time-out, kneel down and tell her why she was in time-out.

When my daughter was four, we went to the park every day. She went to preschool and had playdates. In the late afternoon, I would take the bike out in the driveway, water the flowers or build a snowman.

My daughter was a bear without alot of physical excercise and sleep! Reading is a nice "bonding" activity to diffuse what is taking place right now. Get a big wicker basket and have a book you can read to her and 1 she can "read' to you--- and read together on a daily basis.

I think I posted about this before. My daughter likes to grumble when she's being punished, she will say something rude or outrageous and I used to respond with harsher punishment or discussions about being respectful. That never helped. So I started watching, and I noticed that she is just grumbling, letting out her anger. She will accept the punishment or do the thing she was supposed to do.

So I started ignoring it. She's mad and trying to get a rise out of me. I noticed that if I ignore it and walk away, she will accept her punishment and then later on apologize on her own for her actions.

I've noticed as she's gotten older, she doesn't do it as much. I can't say that I don't say the same things in my head when I get upset, I've just learned how to control it better!

I would just ignore the outburst and repeat the thing you want your daughter to do until she complies. I think she'll get ahold of her emotions as she matures.

For me it's not really disrespect unless there is name calling or insults being hurled, as in,
"you're stupid"
Now my kids have all said, at one point or another,
"you're mean"
"i hate you"
"you're the meanest mother ever"
As hard as those things are to hear, I realize that if I hear them, I must be doing something right!
I would respond to what your daughter said with this,
"yes, I WILL take a time out, away from you while you sit in your room until you are ready to listen"
and
"that's true, I'm not your friend, I am your mom"
The worst thing you can do is feed the behavior by engaging it. Don't come down to her level, stay calm, steady and firmly in charge. Don't yell or get emotional, be very matter of fact about it. You show her you will not put up with certain behaviors by one, not giving it any attention and two, removing her from the situation.
Once she learns her attitude has no power she will drop it. There's no payoff. Kids need to learn they attract more honey with flies, you know?

First, I have two distinct categories of backtalk: there's the grumbling, self-indulgent talk ( like "you're not my friend"), which I consider to be just letting off steam. Yes, it's juvenile, but kids are juveniles so I don't punish for this. They're mad, they say stupid stuff-- so do adults, right? As long as it doesn't fall into the category of name-calling, I ignore it if I can or sometimes send him to his room "because you are really grumpy at me and you need a break." He is allowed to come out whenever he is ready to be pleasant.

And then, there's being non-compliant. "No-- I won't" sort of backtalk.

Sometimes, my son (5) will say "no" to a direction, and then just go do it anyway. So I often keep my mouth shut for a moment or two and look to see what his actions are before deciding to address the situation. Sometimes, it really doesn't need addressing and he's just grumbling.

However, if I asked my son to take a time out and he refused, I'd send him to his room. "Come back out when you are ready to do what I ask." So, while it doesn't seem like a punishment, it is allowing him to take a break and get his focus together. If he wants to be back out with us, he'll *still* have to take the time out time before resuming any fun in the common areas of the house. This also eliminates a huge power struggle-- instead of physically forcing him to sit in a chair and using up MY time (and we moms have plenty else to do, don't we?), I make the noncompliance be HIS problem.

There's a great deal of motivation to be had when it comes to being allowed to be part of the social activity of the house. I want my son to learn to take breaks when he's feeling uncooperative socially; I want him to learn to go play by himself sometimes if it's hard to get along with other kids. I want him to learn that if he's in a bad mood, he's welcome to take it elsewhere and come back when he's ready to participate in the ways we need him to. Don't we wish more adults knew how to do this?:)

And you might try turning it on her: "You know, you are being so unpleasant, I will take a time-out in my own room. I'll come out when I'm ready for your company." Depending on what's happened, if you go off and disappear for ten or fifteen minutes, this may be enough for her to check in on you. Then you can decide if you still need her to take that time out or if you two are okay with each other. Of course, this only works if you have an only child or older kids who are engaged, etc. You can take a baby or toddler to your room with you if need be. (This is called 'room clearing' and is sometimes a great response to big, bad acting out or tantrums. Everyone leaves the angry child to yell or carry on without any attention.)

she's talking back because you're allowing discussion over every little detail of existence. when it comes to discipline, there doesn't need to be creativity. there needs to be consistency. just stick with time out. ignore her sass, put her butt in time out and ignore her trying to provoke you. if it's subjective, that's why she's going to keep trying to push and push and push and see if she can change the outcome. it has to be the same every time. and i think when it comes to consequences, at 4 she should be told once, then the discussion is over. if you want to talk it to death save it for after the discipline. she knows the rules. time out. period. there's no talking in time out.

I'm sure this isn't always the case, but I hear much sassy talk from kids as their own childish imitation of what they hear from adults – often their own parents. Adults often do NOT talk kindly to children.

An acquaintance of mine, who was having a terrible time with a back-talking 5yo, taped her own interactions with her children for only a couple of hours one day. She was shocked to realize that her child was actually imitating the way she talked to her daughters. Kids receive as taunting and disrespect comments like, "You get your little butt over here right now, Missy!" or "Don't you dare, or you'll be in big trouble." or "Didn't I just tell you no?" or "Look at me when I'm talking to you!" And those comments are truly rude – few adults would talk that way to other adults.

Not many of the "demanding" statements parents make to their children are truly grown-up and respectful. Kids learn early and well exactly "how" to get under parents' skin, because their parents have demonstrated from their diaper days how to get under their tender skins. I decided before my daughter was born to watch my tone of voice, carefully and consciously use good manners with her, and make requests rather than demands. On those few occasions when I did have to state a request as a demand, she understood immediately that I was not to be argued with.

I'm sure not every child is as "easy" as my child was, but it worked beautifully with her, and I'm pretty sure part of the reason was that we were a team – she knew I was on her side, so she wanted to be on mine.

I hope parents keep in mind that, to some degree, "attitude" is a necessary part of growing up and finding one's inner strength. So I applaud kids with s****. But if it is turned often against parents, it may be that child's way of coping with a need for independent self-determination and self-respect. Kids really don't have enough experience to know any other way to get what they need.

Well, see I believe that the more talking you do, the less discipline is actually happening. In your situation I would have done this...

Gosh, it looks like you need help. Are you going to walk to the time out chair or shall I put you there? If no decision is made, I would put her there, and then I would continue putting her there over and over again until she stayed. If you are consistent with this approach it does not take more than a couple of times to play the pick them back up and put them down game. During this time there is NO talking by me.

I also have a stack of one-liners I use for phrases like "it's not fair" "you're not my friend", etc. The top three are:
Don't you wish I believed that
How sad
I love you too much to argue.
I say both of them in an authentic tone with no sarcasm. I don't argue.

If my daughter is being disrespectful towards me I usually do not issue a warning. She knows it is not okay (she will be 5 in Sept.) and she is immediately issued a consequence. Sometimes it is time out and sometimes I simply take away whatever it was that caused the controversy. I stay calm and (TRY!!) don't use angry tones. She has to see that the issue is her problem not mine and if I get mad, she doesn't have to.

I'm a huge fan of Love and Logic, so if you are intrigued by my suggestions consider picking up the book. Good luck!

At three? I ignore it. As long as she takes the time out, or whatever you are asking her to do, it doesn't matter if she says, "You take a time out."

As far as "You're not my friend," goes, you should say, "You're right, I'm not your friend, I'm your mother."

She's only 3 (or almost 4), this isn't anything to get too concerned about.

well, my very 1st thought was, "a pop on the mouth". I'd like to write "LOL".....but that thought was actually just the humor in me coming out. :)

I use my pointer finger & tap it on my mouth. This redirects the child's attention to me & I say, "I don't like what you're saying. Please be nice". If the child refuses, then I place my finger on the child's mouth. I say, "please don't let your mouth get you in trouble. Think about what you're saying". & then we take it from there....disciplining as needed.

I am not perfect. I make a LOT of mistakes. I'm learning as I go, as many people do. With that in mind I'll tell you how I would respond and you can take it with a grain (or a tablespoon) of salt.

Me: "You sat on the cat again. Please go to your time out chair."
Her: "No! You take a time out!"
Me: "I would but I was not the one who sat on the cat. Who sat on the cat? Oh yes, that would be you. Get on the chair. Now. And no more back-talk or you'll get worse than the chair.
Her: "You're not my friend!"
Me: "You're correct. I'm your MOTHER. Get. On. The. Chair. NOW."
Her: "No!"
Me: "Third strike and you're out. You're getting a spanking now."
Her: (Wide eyes with the realization that she pushed the boundries a little too far, hands covering her butt and running down the hall.) "No! No no no no nonononono!"

Pants down, laid over my knee and three hearty swats to the butt later she's snuffling and in tears.

I get down to her level and make eye contact. I ask her if she knows why she got a spanking.

Her: "Because I didn't sit in the chair..."
Me: "What did you do before I asked you to sit in the chair."
Her: (Long pause) "Sat on the cat."
Me: "Is sitting on the cat a good thing to do, or a bad thing?"
Her: "Bad thing."
Me: "Why?"
Her: "I dunno."
Me: "Would you want me to sit on you?"
Her: "No you'd smash me!!"
Me: "That's right. And when you sit on the cat you're smashing him. It hurts him and he doesn't like it. Don't ever sit on the cat again or you'll get another spanking."
Her: "Ok"
Me: "Give me a hug and let's to tell the cat you're sorry for sitting on him. I love you very much but you can't hurt the cat. I want you to be a very good girl and sitting on the cat is not a good thing to do."

The delayed punishments work better with older kids (like "no TV 5 hours from now" or "go to bed early"). When she says "You're not my friend" you can say "That's right, I'm your mother." Kids need to learn that families are not democracies. Neither are classrooms or work sites for that matter!

The "time out chair" may not work at this age because you're still in the room and available for back talk. She needs to be isolated in an area that is no fun. That means not in her bedroom full of fun toys. Perhaps her good toys can be put in bins and she doesn't get to use them when she is fresh? Being apart from you and getting NO ATTENTION is a great motivator.

You say you have clear and consistent consequences, but they may not be swift enough - a consequence 2 hours later is probably not helpful for a child this age. At least have an immediate punishment even if you have a later one.

My Mom dealt with it by washing our mouths out with soap.
We had a bar of Ivory soap that was kept for just that purpose.
I eventually wised up and learned when to keep my mouth shut (or speak with respect).
My sister had the soap in her mouth so much I think it was a factor in her hardly ever having any cavities.
To this day she still shoots off her mouth without thinking about it first.
They are learning to handle big emotions and many times they speak out to try to make you feel what they are feeling and it's even more frustrating when they don't have the words to express themselves the way they want to.

Sometimes at this age my son needed a time out.
More often than not, it turned into sitting on my lap in his room in the rocking chair and we'd rock and rock and rock until he felt better and THEN we could talk about why we don't do what he did to get into trouble.
And then he'd want a big hug - and it would all be over.
Very seldom did we have a repeat offense.

Once he tried sassing like he heard other kids at preschool talk to their parents.
I asked him why he thought it was o to talk to me that way.
I told him we don't talk like that in our family.
It doesn't matter if other people do - we don't.

Sometimes I WOULD take my own time out.
I'd just say "I need a time out. I'm going to go lay down for a bit.".
Our son (up through almost the 1st grade) always needed to be in the same room I was in.
So if I left - he'd follow, then lay down with me, and before you know it we'd be napping.

He tried the 'You're not my friend" thing, too.
I told him he was absolutely correct - I'm not his friend.
I'm his Mother.
Friends come and go but I'm there to help him when he throws up or is scared in the night.
I'm better than a friend could ever be because I'm with him through thick and thin, good times and bad.
Toddler/pre-school age is tough, but I think our son has come out of it pretty well adjusted.
Our fingers are crossed hoping that his teenage years won't be too bad.

You will get through it sooner or later.
Just hang in there!

with my youngest son, I used to always say "who is in charge?" after everything that came out of his mouth, and repeat it and repeat it until he would say "You are" and I would say (in a very cheerful voice) "you are so RIGHT! Now go do what I say". Man it worked like a charm.

Grandson was here the other day and yelled "NO!" at his mom, and I marched him to the corner and held him there until he apologized to her. Me doing it hurt his feelings much worse than if momma had done it.

She's just testing you, my daughter is almost 5 and has been doing a lot of same things for the past 2 years. Just when I think I got something nipped in the bud, she tries a new tactic. She's done the whole flipping around bit too. Also trying to manipulate me by saying things like, "The only thing that will make me happy is if you give me ice cream!" after I've said no to ice cream. Or I tell her to do A or B is going to happen, then she tries to tell me she will only do A if I do C, etc. And just about any kind of punishment sends her into orbit. I give her a warning, I count to 3, etc. and when I have to actually lower the hammer, she flips out.

So I have actually backed off a bit. When she's saying all sorts of silly things like "I don't love you any more!" and whatnot, I don't give it any lip service - I am not going to engage her in an argument. She knows if she pushes me too far, she's going to spend some time alone in her room. Usually I will frame it like she has a choice and she realizes she's going t go too far if she goes any further. I will ask her, "Do you need to spend some time in your room so you can stop whining?" or "Do you want to sit alone in your room so you can remember how to behave?" and of course, when the answer from her is no, I can say, "Okay, then, enough is enough. Time to stop." Sometimes the less attention they get for something (good or bad), the better. I know DD likes to try to push my buttons and if I calmly remind her of or follow through with a consequence, rather than taking the bait, things get resolved a lot faster and with a lot less yelling. So far time alone in her room seems to be most effective.

I feel your pain, and I know it can seem like a never-ending cycle, and you wonder if they will ever get it. Hang in there, it's all you can do!

"You're not my friend" can be met with, "No, I am not your friend. I am your mother and you must listen to me. Those are the rules."
I would not say please when sending her to the timeout chair. There's a time for manners, and kids learn manners from hearing their parents use them, but you are not asking her for a favor. She is being punished. You are making it sound like she has a choice. This is a time for speaking roughly to her in an authoratative voice that leaves no perception of choice. Take her firmly by the hand and deposit her in time out, facing the wall. Or better yet, standing in the corner facing the wall
At that age, talking back was met with being taken by the hand to her room, told to put on her pajamas, shades pulled down and in bed for the rest of the day. This only needed to happen once or twice.

First - I try to treat my son with respect. I want to model the behavior I expect. Second, I talk to my son about his attitude. How does it make him feel when someone talks to him like that? And then we rephrase what he is saying. At 6, he can do a lot of this himself. At 4, I walked him through that. Children do not automatically know what 'respect' is unless they see it in their lives. And sadly, many people order their kids around and then are surprised when that is how the children act themselves.

I do not do 'consequences' or punishments so I really have no comment on whether they 'work'. I really don't care what 'works', as much as I care what will help my son truly learn to empathize and understand how to treat people.

I don't want a power struggle - no one wins. I am the adult - I should not need the affirmation from a powerless child that I am in charge. Seems like a power trip to me.

My kids go immediately to their room for disrespect at home. It gives us space so that I am less of a target. In public, I try to act quickly as well. I either take their face in my hands so that they are looking at me and tell them to stop, or I take them by the arm to a space that serves as a time out spot and I step away.

The "you're not my friend" is a typical response at that age when they dislike something - don't take that personally, but IMO, to turn around and tell you that you should go into the time out is rude. Just continue being consistent and firm.

Well I am sure most moms will want to condem me, but it worked! Mya daughter was about the same age and I was home with her all day, one day she continuously kept talking back, I went through all the steps you mentioned. Then that night we were eating dinner and my husband told my daughter to finish her food, she looked right at him and told him NO, then she got up from the table and threw her plate (paper) away. I didnt even think about what I was doing I grabbed the jalepeno hubby was eating, grabbed my DD and swiped her mouth! She was not happy but she knew I meant business! She didnt even think about talking back for a long time and when she seemed like she might I would tell her I had a jalepeno pepper in my pocket! (LOL now that she is 9, she LOVES hot foods!)