Difficult 5 Year Old Boy

My son is now 8 and we are still battaling the same issue- I wish I would have delt with his negativity sooner. We see a Dr. Bolnick who is awesome- some things we did at home was at dinner we would write down 3 things we are thankful for- and you can not repeat anything. When he says something negative about himself or others he has to say 3 nice things about that person- or himself. If he argues with us about it there is a punishment- most of the time we just have him write starting with 10 and building up to 50 depending on the crime and how much he argues. Reward him for the positive things he says or does- we have a marble jar for both our boys and anything helpful or good they get a marble and they are worth 10 cents each (yes we are cheap) never take a marble out of the jar if its really bad have a naughty jar and put marbles in there and when good take one out of there for the good jar. we dont have the naughty jar now but when we did if there was any marbles in it they couldnt have a snack etc.. I think its great you are dealing with this now. I know a lot of boys have this but its important to try to teach our children positive thinking. Good Luck!

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I am so sorry for your troubles. I can certainly understand and appreciate your desperate frustration. There is nothing worse than to feel powerless to help your child with their suffering, all while trying not to have your family held hostage by the situation.

When I read your story it resonated with me, but it also raised questions in my mind. Has your son always been like this or was there an event that precipitated the change in his mood and behavior?

Does he have special things that he keeps that would give you a clue as to what might be truly important to him? Does he have any favorite activities? Does he have trouble sleeping? Does he like to draw? What s he really good at?

How is he to his siblings? Do you find that he instigates confrontations? Does it seems as though he is needling you into a confrontation so that he can reaffirm his own depression? Sort of like a child does when they are a "cutter," but instead he uses you as the blade. Does he have any calm moments when he genuinely express his depression or is he always in fight mode? Does he let you comfort him or is he resistant to human contact and warmth?

When his teachers say his is a typical boy, what exactly do they mean? Is he having any confrontations at school? Is he as disrespectful to other adults as he is to you? What are his grades like? Is he reading? Is he excelling in his studies or is he behind? IE is he bored or is he struggling?

I encourage you to answer these questions at least for yourself. Watch your son and keep a journal because no one else will have the access to him that you have. If you involve any other professionals on your team to help him, the more details they can have the better equipped they will be to help him.

If you share your answers here I will be happy to offer whatever advice I can based on my own experiences with a depressed child.

Either way I wish you the best of luck!

SMILE On!

ML

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Hi L.! As many others have said...we have lived this too!! Our son started showing the same behaviors as you are describing at about age 4. We made the mistake of waiting too long to seek help thinking it was just "boys being boys". Then when he started to "control" every thing we did as a family....nothing was good enough....we would go to the museum for the day and have a great time but he wanted more. We said he had the ability to ruin the best of our situations. Plus he just got increasingly "nasty" to others....trying to control friendships, his sister....us!! We finally have gotten some help!! He is going to turn 10 on Sunday and for about the past almost 3 years he has had to take medicine. Many parents are sensitive about the subject and you read a lot on these kind of messages that are absolutely against "medicating" their child. But I am telling you it has only made our life better!! Chemical imbalances are exactly what they are!! And they run in the family....bi-polar people are only bi-polar if there is a history of it in the family. My suggestion is start here: Alexian Brothers Neurosciences Institute (Dr. Amy Davis Ph. D.).....it is a battery of "tests" (on paper~not blood etc) that will give you exactly his neurological make-up. It is kind of long....a day and a half of testing, but with summer break coming up it is a good time. We got 30 (ish) pages of everything from this to that. She will give you recommendations as to where to go next. Or the other recommendation I have is to check into a local facility like amenclinics.com go to their sight it is amazing!! I would happy to chat more about all of our experiences and the help we have received if you want....just let me know!! There is just too much to type in this little space :) GOOD LUCK!!!!! Best Wishes! K.

Hi L.,

I remembered the name of that book for your daughter with food sensitivity issues. It's called Food Chaining. It teaches you how to add onto what she's already eating. If she eats kraft mac & cheese, try varying the brands and shapes of the pasta, then try serving the macaroni with a different type of sauce. It also suggests having your child play with food. Finger paint with sauces, chocolate, etc. Lots of great ideas to just get kids more comfortable around food. Good luck! Hope it helps.

B.

Gosh, tons of responses! Don't you just love this website? I read your story this morning and have thought of you often. Just read all the responses and noticed that no one else has asked if he's getting enough sleep. You said he's difficult at bedtime, which probably leads to going to bed too late. Its amazing how much that will impact your childs entire personality. It's an easy fix and doesn't cost anything! By the way, my son takes melatonin every night, otherwise he would lie awake forever trying to fall asleep. His doctor recommended it when he was 8 It's perfectly safe and natural.

I also want to mention that I have a family history of bi-polar. My grandfather, mother and brother have it. It usually carry's down directly. For instance if a parent has itthere's a 25 % chance of their child getting it. If both parents have it a childs chances are 50%. Your son may be ok if you and your husband are fine. I don't remember my little brother ever hating everything when he was little. Bi polar is more about ups and downs (hihs and lows) than about hating everything.

For the record, my two boys (6 and 9)often complain about going places and doing things, then always have so much fun when they're there. I feel like I'm always saying, now aren't you glad you came along? I think it's normal.

Also regarding sensory issues. My 9 year old has issues with taste. He eats about 5 foods and has since he was one.

I know manychildren with sensory
issues,it totally focuses on one or two of the five senses. Touch is a big one, kids can't stand tags on their clothes, seams in their socks, wearing shoes, etc. I think your story
would have been different if he in fact had sesnory issues.

Just wanted to throw in my two cents. Make sure he is getting enough sleep!!! Also, ask him if he has trouble falling asleep. I finally realized my son had a problem when I laid down with him one night, he tossed and turned til 11:00! Then when he saw ads for lunesta he would say Mommy, I need that! Crazy.

Hi L.,

I have two boys and I think the "I hate" and the "That's no fun and boring" are a stage that boys go through. My oldest was like that from the age of 4 until about 10 years old. My other son is in that stage right now. My second son was very whiney as a baby and as a toddler liked to be alone which was hard because I have 4 other kids. He would pitch fits if I asked him a question and to eat was ridiculous. After some reading I asked my Dr. if this could be allergy related but he didn't think so. My son was fine in school and kids and teachers love him. But he was a beast at home. I decided to have him allergy tested and he has several allergies. Mostly to eggs, milk, and peanuts. But there are other foods also and outdoor allergies as well. Once I put him on a special diet, he became easy to talk to and was so calm with no fits. This can happen if he is just intolerant of foods. This means he has to stay on his diet but he can have a piece of cake every once in a while. I hope this helps. Believe me, I've been at my wits end with my son, but now I only wish I demanded testing earlier. We didn't have him tested until he was seven years old. I went too many years dealing with something that was so easy to correct. And my son was miserable and didn't understand why. Good Luck!!

L.-

My first recommendation would be to contact your insurance and check out your mental health coverage.

I experienced many of these things that you are describing above. I understand the family exhaustion you feel at the end of everyday. Please keep pushing for your son. I believed the school system far too long. Tell the school you would like an Assessment for ADHD, by law they have to provide...push until you get it.

My daughter was diagnosed Bi-Polar and ADHD a year ago, 9 years after starting school. I experienced many of the same things youare describing for many years, finally 8th/9th Grade we were able to get her help. For years, the school system, said I was over reacting, she was being lazy. None of those things were true.

She is on medication for both and our life is finally running normally.

Take care and take care of yourself.

not to freak you out but even before you mentioned the bi polar part I thought this boy is depressed. I would definitely take him into a good psychologist and please know the first one you see might not be the right one and you might have to see others. it takes an average of three specialists to diagnose or help the way a patient nedds it. i know it is sad but you have to be your own advocate. Even pedatricians do not know everything. I know it is sad but just going in knowing this helps.
good luck and you can also have him evaluated at a therapy place for example Therapedatrics. they will look and see if it is sensory or ADD etc these type of places usually have counceling too!
good luck hang in there!
J.

I think one other person also mentioned sensory issues. My 6yr old just started going to occupational therapy for this. I was thinking the awful mornings and low self esteem, etc was normal until she started school and things got worse- and the other kids didn't seem to have the same issues. Everything from poor appetite to screaming and yelling fights over putting on clothes (not over choice of clothes but just changing clothes- everything "hurts") Things have improved dramatically in the last month and 1/2. May not be this, but I didn't even know this existed until recently. I would have taken her to O.T. much sooner had I known. Also she is TOTALLY fine at school. This behavior is ONLY at home for some reason. Its like she holds everything together at school and then lets loose at home. Ask your pediatrician for advice and keep a journal. Sometimes Peds can be dismissive of symptoms if they don't understand how often and how severe things are. I would be in tears after finally getting her to school 1/2 late and fighting with her- it's exhausting and frustrating for everyone. Good Luck! K

You've gotten some wonderful advice, and I agree with much of it, especially that you first check out sensitivity issues and anything that may be contributing to low self esteem. I totally understand your concern about bi-polar given that it runs in the family, but I hope you make madication the last option not the first. As a counselor I have seen that middle child, being replaced as the youngest, struggles with schoolwork that is not yet obvious, heightened sensitivity, an unknown trauma, can all bring on these symptoms. One I did not see is the possibility of allergies or nutrient deficiencies. A hair test can give you important information on this. The Pfeiffer Institute near Naperville is one place that does very thorough testing, but I am sure there are others around also. His behavior is calling for help, and I am glad you are listening and looking for answers rather than going on an assumption. Let your love and intuition guide you.

OMG, I'm sorry to say, but I'm so happy to hear your story because my son, who just turned 6 a week ago is exactly the same. He tells me that everyone hates himb (ut the storys during the day prove otherwise). He says things like "I want to die", we don't say that and I don't even think we understands what that means. He has a bad attitude about everything and every morning I end up yelling at him to get dressed so he can make the bus. He has 45 mins. to get ready. I was mentioning this to my sister, who has a 2 month old and no other kids, and she said, "Maybe it's because Dan's the middle child" (my sister is also the middle child) and I thought, why didn't I think of that? His older sister excels and the youngest, well, she's the small cute one. We by all means don't not neglect him and try to give him as much attention as the others. I'm sorry to not have answered your question, but wanted to let you know that you are not alone and hopefully this is an age or boy thing. Thanks for asking the question as I'm hoping that maybe some of the responses will help me too.

Your concern about ADHD and bipolar issues may be the cause - don't read into situations. Sounds like he could be playing you to get attention. Sometimes this is called negative reinforcement because reactions come from negativity. To find out for sure, use positive reinforcement for positive or non-negative comments from him while making very few comments on hate words. The key is being consistent with both parents. Things could get worse before they get better - until he realized that he will get your attention when he is NOT negative. Hope this works for you.

My son was going through the same thing at 6, and after months of appointments, etc. we discovered that he had Asperger's syndrome with sensory integration disorder. I'm not saying your son has Asperger's...my son's Asperger's is very mild and I think the sensory issues were causing him to act out. Regardless, it doesn't hurt to explore and rule out all possibilities (often Asperger's and sensory disorders are misdiagnosed as ADHD).

I would go to your school first. Ask the school psychologist for a Connors Rating Scale (for ADHD) which you, your husband and the teacher will fill out. Then ask them to do a occupational therapy evaluation (not just an observation) including a Sensory Profile Caregiver Questionaire that you fill out and return to be graded. We did our Sensory profile through the private OT, but I believe the school should have access to this. Be sure to tell them about home behavior as my son did an excellent job holding himself together during school and would melt down at home, so the school still does not believe he needs OT. I also found out from another parent, that there is an Asperger's profile questionaire as well that she filled out for her son and took to a neurologist to aid in diagnosis. Be sure to mention your family history of bipolar as well since they may have other evals for this. I've also met with parent mentors at SEDOL - Special Ed District of Lake County to help me navigate through the symptoms.

I understand another posters reluctance to go through the school for services, but I believe it's a good starting place. It can save you a lot financially. We went for a neuro-psych eval at Lutheran General, and although it was extremely thorough, it was $8,000 before insurance. Drs. Ikramuddin and Khoshaba were wonderful there, and I would highly recommend them. If some of this testing had been done through the school, it would have taken a huge chunk out of the cost of eval. and we still would have had their valuable expertise. You can always find private providers if you can afford it, but take advantage of all the school has to offer. We found a wonderful OT in Volo - Manny Herrera, and even if my son did qualify for OT in school, we would continue our sessions with Manny because he has the time and resources to adapt the therapy to my son's individual needs. The therapy has helped tremendously!

Good luck! I hope this helps!

L.,
Your son's school should have a resource center or a guidance department. If he goes to private school the public school is available to you (as a taxpayer) to have him evaluated. If he's already in public school it is less complicated. Talk to the counselors and ask them to evaluate his behavior. Teachers are not always trained to detect this kind of thing. Young or new teachers can sometimes miss clues. If you can't get anywhere with the school, try a private rehab center or doctor's office to take a look at his behavior. I don't know what city you are in, so I am reluctant to suggest specific places. School should be your first place to go. My son is exactly the same age.. 6 in May. We've had some similar issues. Good luck and keep me posted.

Try 1-2-3 Magic! It can work wonders if you're consistent! Good luck!

I'm not saying OUR solution is YOUR solution, but we were in a similar boat.

Our 6-year old hated school, she was doing poorly and constantly in trouble for talking. One day she would have "lots of friends" and the next day she hated everyone and was being "picked on." She was behind in reading and getting tutoring. She'd get invited to parties, she'd go and then say she had a lousy time.

I'd arrange playdates and find her doing "her own thing" while her friend was doing something else. She'd be SO EXCITED about playdates, and then she'd be bossy during the playdate and end up fighting with the kids. I took her to the zoo with some friends for her birthday and she ignored practically all her friends and just wanted to do her own thing. At home she always wanted us to play with her and would be naughty if we told her to play on her own.

I was frustrated. Why should I bother taking her to parties and arranging playdates when all she did was have a lousy time?

This year we pulled her out of school and we homeschool her (again, OUR solution is not necessarily YOUR solution). She gets frustrated very easy and gives up in school. She needed someone there to help her sort it out. Also, she's a bit slower than other kids. School was too fast-paced and she didn't quite know how to ask questions. School frustration turned into "hating school" which turned into hating the kids.

We also noted that she spent her whole life playing with adults and her step-uncle who was 4 years older. SHE DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO PLAY WITH KIDS HER AGE. She was always the center of attention when playing with adults, and she could be the "cute little kid." They let her win at all the games and generally made a big deal out of everything she did. Kids her own age don't do that. So she was at a loss on how to play with them.

It has taken a lot of closely-supervised playdates and talking about how to be a good friend. She now has many close friends she plays with regularly. She's doing well in homeschool, she's moved ahead to some 3rd grade work in some subjects, and is right on target for 2nd grade in others (where she was behind before!)

Many times kids just don't know how to handle social situations. We have to help them. Kids who get frustrated easily need more help getting over that. There's nothing wrong with them "chemically" they just need instruction in areas where other kids might not.

Go with your gut - it is clear that your child is having a hard time coping with his emotions, so before assuming anything else, use that as your starting point. My 8 year old boy has sensory issues and has a hard time tuning into balancing his emotions, very similar to the examples you note. So while he might have had a very good day at school, if one thing happens to set him off it's "the worst day EVER". I agree with the poster who advised to see how your insurance covers mental health, and then check with your pediatrician to see where to start (we go to Children's and I recommend it). I would suggest a psychologist at first (they don't prescribe meds, but use behavior modification and talk therapy) and if you get a good psychologist, he or she can help determine if you need a psychiatrist, who can prescribe necessary meds along with therapy. You might not need meds - but you need help to determine this. Knowing family history is essential, too.

Good luck and how fortunate your son has such a compassionate mother and father. I promise it will be easier once you get the support you need.

Sounds like a norml little boy that does well with kids but needs attention from you and daddy when the girls and baby are around. Make sure to make "special time" for him alone..
you and hubby.

If your son is on public school, check with one of the counselors first. We have a social worker at our school, who will work with kids, and also recommend outside counselors if needed.

Here is a place to try also: www.tricityfamilyservices.org.

I would check with the pediatrician to have him evaluated. The teacher doesn't have to live with your child. This does not sound typical, and chemical imbalances run in families. If you feel as if something is not right, something may very well be. Even if it's not ADHD or Bipolar disorder, depression might be in play here. I would also take him to two separate psychologists for an evaluation-not a school psychologist, and if you can avoid it, not a "free or reduced rate" place. I would also not let either psychologists know that there will be two opinions. Both evaluations should be reviewed by your pediatrician, and you should go from there.
I have mental illness in my family, and have worked with psychiatric and developmentally children and adults as a nurse.

Mr 5 yr old daughter was recently screened by an OT and was diagnosed with mild sensory integration issues. I had never really heard much about these disorders, but have read a great deal in the last month. Sensory issues effect all five senses plus balance and motor skills. sensory processing problems can effect all of the senses, touch, hearing, etc, motor skills, peer relationships, ability to calm yourself/sit still/stay calm, etc. There could be a neurological basis for all of the resistance that is NOT related to ADHD or mental illness. I would definitely have him tested for your and his piece of mind, whether the school thinks so or not, its affecting all of your lives. You can send me an email to discuss further if you want, I can tell you where I got my daughter screened.

Good luck!

Dear L.,

Your son's school is one of the best places to start with your concerns. Try talking to the counselor and/or the principal. Although they may be reluctant to start the whole "testing" process, there is still time this school year. It is your child's right to try to find out if there is something to be concerned about and you (parent/s) know your child best. Sometimes you have to be persistent and insistent. You could even try your school board if the school is reluctant. There are organizations that can help you with your son's rights and your rights as parents. I am trying to remember the name of the organization I went to for a workshop to find out what I could do for my son. If I don't remember the name of the organization during this email, I will send it when I do remember. You don't know if there is something to be worried about until you start this process. This testing is not only for children with learning disabilities, but for any and all children. Also, unless your son's teacher is a special education teacher, chances are he/she may not fully understand this process. In the State of Illinois, you are entitled to request services as early as age three. You can go to the State of Illinois, Dept. of Education website to get some information.

CPS made it difficult for me to get my son help because they said he was very smart, but they were eventually able to find that my son was indeed having problems. Sometimes it has nothing to do with intelligence or capability. Try to research as much as you possibly can especially, if the findings indicate medication is needed. Communicate with as many professionals as possible. Also, you should not have to pay any money for these services, unless you can afford it or results indicate that you have to get further testing not covered by your the school or school board of education.

Take care and best of luck. You and your husband are being good parents.

S. G.

I know how you feel. I have an 11 year old boy who is similar. Look closely at his diet. I started taking B complex vitamins for mood swings so I decided to try it with my son. It has helped. He is happier. Also, kids do go through changes(like puberty) around that age. Hopefully he will just pass this stage soon.