At Your Darkest Hour What Helped, What Could Have Helped?

Wow. Just Wow. Who are you and what did you do with my friend J.?

BAHAHAWAHA!

LY J.. You know I wouldn't have it any other way, right?

;)

It's nice to hear positive answers, but honestly - I only want positive answers if they are GENUINE. I want true help, I don't need a cheerleader - I need help. If that help comes in the form of something I don't want to hear, well, likely it may make me upset at first but I will then put my big girl panties on and really start thinking about that answer and how it will help me.

I was all down on my luck a year or more ago when I asked a question about my husband really paying no mind to me on Mothers Day (his mother passed about 11 years ago) - I got a lot of "he should pay attention, etc etc" responses but a few people were like, "Hey, you're not his mom, if you want a nice mothers day say what you want to do and do it."

Another example. I was upset about something once and I tried talking to my husband about it and all he said was "well I still love you" - to me that response was simply cheerleader and not really helpful; while his intent was to be nice, I needed true help and felt that response was the easy way out and blowing me off.

Okay, here is a story of a coach during one of the darkest times of my life. Please bear with me.

I was in sixth grade and my mother had just died of breast cancer. My little brother was only two years old, so my older brother, older sister, and I had to take turns picking him up from day care after school everyday. This day care was a mile and a half from my house, and we had to walk there and walk/carry our brother back home. It was exhausting. I was a superstar student and athlete, and I played violin at school too.

I was on the school's traveling jump rope team (corny, I know, but we thought we were so cool) and we would be out of school for days or a week at a time to show other schools in Oregon, Washington, and Idaho our mad skillz. We had jump rope practice about an hour before school several days a week. Our coach was the gym teacher. I will call her Miss W.

Between school, jump rope, violin, taking care of my brother, taking care of myself, and missing my mother, I was spent. My dad worked all day, came home for dinner, and then left again to go back to work at night. And we were pretty poor. Finally one day in the spring, I just ran out of gas. I kept my good grades, but I quit the jump rope team and violin. My violin teacher was very sympathetic to me and supported me in my decision to drop out. Miss W was furious. I was one of the best jump ropers/gymnasts on the team, and I was letting her down.

At the end of the school year, I was the only person in the entire school to win the Presidential Physical Fitness Award. During our award assembly, everyone was clapping for me, and when I walked up to Miss W to accept my award, she handed me the ribbon and said, "Maybe one of these days you'll find something you won't quit." Her words felt like a kick in the gut.

The point of my story? Miss W truly thought she was being helpful by telling me not to quit anything. This was her style of coaching. I would say that as a coach, she sucked. Not all coaches are good. Not all cheerleaders are good. If someone's idea of coaching is to kick someone while they are down in the hopes that it will inspire them to strive for more, I'm not sure how effective that's going to be for most people. That's the long long long answer I have to why I might have a problem with coaches :-) But J., I do like your responses, and I consider you to be a wise person!

Hmmm....an interesting Q, J.!

There are lots of different type of questions on this site:

1. Fluff stuff: No matter how I answer, it's not going to profoundly change someones life to know that I'm having meatloaf for dinner or that my husband & I have sex 4 times per week, right? No need for coaching OR cheering there.

2. Practical problems: If someone asks and I know for sure that a Magic Eraser does, indeed, take crayon off of latex paint, then I guess I'm coaching. Giving specific info that they asked about and need to hear.

3. Opinion pieces: Posts about manners, politics, religion, etc. Again, not a lot of room for "cheering because we all have our opinions on topics like that and I tend to state mine. I doubt it would profoundly affect Honey Boo Bear's life to hear, yet again, that, yes, a sixth baby shower IS, indeed, tacky.

4. People that ask a question and then limit what type of responses they receive. ("No bashing!" or "Please, nothing negative, I feel bad already!")
My opinion of those questions...they are SEEKING cheerleaders, and if I don't agree with their emotionally supportive affair at work, I'm going to say it. Sorry!

5. People in real need of truth. Women in abusive relationships, women with a pattern of man-hopping and procreation, work situations, etc.
Yes...they need cheerleaders to do better. But first they have to KNOW better...in order to do better. So maybe some hard-to-hear coaching advice IS what they need to hear when they are ready to hear it, right?
The worst are the ones where you KNOW you're right: the husband or fiancee is an alcoholic and the wedding should NOT happen, etc. but the asker simply isn't "there" yet to hear what s/he needs to at that time. Very frustrating.

Anyhoo--I usually call them as I see them and I must be doing something right. Currently I have 28,000+ UNopened flowers in my (never emptied) inbox, and I usually open about half, although I appreciate all of them. :)

I guess I would say that there is a happy medium, J.. Mindless cheerleading has its place in some things - like "I had meatloaf for dinner - what's your fav?" Then the other end of the spectrum nastiness is not helpful at all and I don't blame people for crying foul. I'll also say that original posts full of screaming at people, hissy fits and blasts that challenge everyone for disagreeing with them, in my opinion, belong in the proverbial trash.

My idea of helpful is in between. Honest responses given what you see from the posts, what you know about previous posts (if you remember to look) and what you read between the lines. Personal experience comes to bear as well. That way, the person can read it, ignore it, agree with it, disagree with it, remember it later, whatever.

We all need to remember that though we see ourselves as coaches (myself totally included in this), it's a subjective term. And the advice we give to others sometimes just cannot be taken, at least at the time it's given.

What has helped me in my darkest hour? Probably not others' advice. Probably not leaning on other people. Probably not cheerleaders or coaches. What has helped me is TIME. Time to get over what ails me. Time to think about what makes sense and what is wishful thinking. Time to see the rational versus the irrational. Maybe something someone says will click with this, sometimes it won't.

However, I couldn't live without the coaches and the cheerleaders in my life. They make me feel better about life in general. Those who I personally know and care about enrich my life in every way. I'm not talking about someone who would say to my face "get over it" "why are you so stupid" "don't waste my time" "who the hell do you think you are" "it's my way or the highway", that kind of thing. I'm talking about coaches in my life who have at least some modicum of kindness about them, with a little bit of toughness to help me with my resolve. And with the cheerleaders, sometimes an "I love you" hug or "you'll be okay" remark is just what I need.

Hope this makes sense as to your question.

Dawn

I'm singing Kum baa yaa and swaying right now, I love your candid responses and honesty. Please don't change a thing and know that there is a little spitfire in Tyler, TX who thinks you are insightful and hilarious.

In my darkest hour, I sought professional help. I was deeply sunken in PMD and it took meds and counseling to get me back on track. My oldest dgtr was on 3 when it started, 4 when I finally got help. She remembers the mommy "before" that laid around and cried a lot and the mommy "after" who became involved in life and became such a stronger and better person.

Good question!

Hi J.
I see no problem with the way you answer,sometimes you are a little blunt but we are all big girls and boys so we will survive a straight talking woman.

It reminds me of a post I did on racism and how as a mixed race couple living in Ireland me and hubby were experiencing some difficulties .In your reply you stated that your grandmother hated the Irish . I laughed out loud when I read your reply. I am Irish , the topic was on racism and you were ditching a whole race. I knew you didn't mean any offence to me but it could have really offended another person.

You are a regular here and well liked and respected for your honestly.

BUT a little advise. The fact that you made a whole post on this shows that something is nagging you,maybe you feel that you need to change and grow again.
We all are ,none of us perfect,the best people in life recognise their faults and grow accordingly.

Your question. I am a coach when needed but mostly I am a cheerleader.
I have no probs with advise once it is coming from a good place.
In my darkest hour I usually pray ,ask the angels to assist or try to work through the fog myself with honesty.

All the best
B. k

I think there's a bit of narcissism involved with someone who thinks that their opinions matter to someone THAT MUCH. Usually when someone is "at their darkest hour", all they REALLY need is a shoulder. Not necessarily a cheerleader OR a critic. Everyone is different, so even if you're a close friend or family member, you can't possibly see someone's situation from all the angles that they are seeing it. I think there's huge value in knowing when to keep your opinions to yourself, first and foremost.

For me, I usually, almost always, know when I'm being stupid or immature or what the solution is or what have you, but sometimes I just need to throw a hissy fit. And I just need an ear. It somewhat offends me when people take listening and turn it into trying to micro-manage my life. That said, when I'm actually asking for advice (like on this board), cheerleading AND coaching are both more than welcome. When I'm ready to listen, I'm ready to hear anything someone will say, regardless of how harsh (even though I can be sensitive... but I'm aware of that too).

I think you have a lot of good content in this question, J. (it might need the writing just a wee bit smoothed out... some of the transitions were a little sticky... from the coaching end of things... :) )

In answer to your particular question, yes, in my darkest hour(s), the best advice I received from friends was "you need to go talk to someone". This happened when I was clinically depressed at 25 (and really not ready to deal with the enormity of the stuff I was carrying) and then later at 29, when I was really broken--and at that point, that brave friend's words stuck. I was ready to start addressing a lot of stuff. In about two years time I dropped a couple of toxic relationships and began to get healthy in very real ways.

What did help the least were the mindless cheerleaders. (I want to add that this is very different from the friends who would say "I know that this sucks right now, but you are going to feel a lot better later on." That's not cheerleading, that's support.) During the deep '25' depression, my folks just seemed to think that it was all existential... if only I thought positively and turned to prayer, I'd change my outlook. I got this from the church I was going to as well and found myself feeling more isolated and disconnected.... with what Barbara Ehrenreich calls 'bright-sided' attitude, I felt even worse and further isolated myself. No one seemed to be able to relate.

In short, the 'problem I had with the coach' the first time round was my unwillingness to look at the truth of my life. I do believe people have to be ready to deal with the big stuff and if you aren't willing, you just don't want to hear it. Thus, the anger... that they will speak the truth.

My darkest hour came when my husband had been laid off from his job, had been trying (unsuccessfully) to find a new one, finally found something where he was making 1/4 of what he had been. We had just purchased a beautiful home (that we made the payments on easily when we were both fully employed). In order to make the payments on the house while my husband was unemployed, we put daily living expenses on credit cards, and ended up $75K in debt over the course of several years. Anyway, worse came to worst and we were faced a decision: file for bankruptcy and keep the house, or let the house go into foreclosure. I'm not terribly emotional normally, but the enormity of that decision weighed on me heavily for months.

Finally, a friend of mine said, "You seem sad. What's wrong?" and the whole story came pouring out of me. She looked at me and said, "You are where you are, and there's no going back. Your mortgage is a legal contract, not a moral contract, and you need to do what you would do in the case of any other contract. Break the contract, pay the penalties stated in the contract, and move on." Having someone take the emotion out of it for me was a godsend in that moment. Everyone else up to that point had been saying things like, "Well, you can't help it, the economy crashed" or "It's happening to everyone" or "It's so terrible, hang in there!" All of those things were true, but none of them helped me move on. Once someone pointed out that the situation we faced was simply one of legal contracts, I could make an intelligent decision and a plan to get ourselves out of that situation.

So, to me, the cold, hard facts tend to be more helpful.

it's SO true. we all need cheerleaders at times, to get encouragement and positive feedback and to hear that we're okay and that everything's going to be okay.
but sometimes you need a splash of cold water. all sticks no carrots is terribly debilitating, but if the carrots are turning into a diet of carrot cake, that's almost as bad.
certainly there are too many who use 'i'm just being blunt' or 'sorry you can't handle my honesty' to get around acting like p%icks. however, i find a strong undercurrent of bluntness to be vastly superior to sticky sweetness.
khairete
S.

I don't know why. Probably because, like Cheryl said, they just want to complain and "kvetch" (lol) and not actually DO anything. They want the pat on the back that they are doing everything they can and everything right and they are NOT to BLAME. That's the bottom line, I think. They want someone to say it isn't their fault. They can live with whatever it is, as long as it isn't THEIR fault things are the way they are.

I love that you are a coach. We all need them. And your analogy is FABULOUS. I, however, am more of a cheerleader, I think. Not always and only, and it depends on the subject, too, I suppose.

There was a post recently about "do your answers depend upon your own mood?"... and I think, yes, my answers often do. If I have had a long day slogging through, just getting life done, I am more of a coach type. I don't have the patience left to boost someone's ego and pick them up and brush them off. When I am in a happy place, and am well and rested, and my kids are happy and not grumpy or stressed, too... when I have had time to take care of me (like getting in a run, just for ME), then I can take care of people posting here more as a cheerleader.

We moms are always telling other moms on this board to "take care of yourself. You can't be a good mom/wife/etc if you don't take care of yourself too", etc. And I think that applies to answering posts on here, too. :)

And yes, I think it takes a balance of somebody in your face when you are down saying "get your head out of your @22 and DO what you need to DO" and it also takes a few folks saying, "come on... I KNOW you have it in you... you're doing good so far, just keep at it"...
So we all work together. Even if we have different opinions about something. Or a different approach to handling something, even if we share the opinion about the "proper" outcome.

Hopefully, we (jointly) give the OP something to think about and with some outside perspectives.

Great post!

I'd like to think I'm a cheerleader!! I'm not sure if I am reading you right...I'm so tired my eyes are crossed...so If I am not answering right - I'm sorry.

Who has helped me? Well, this year - YOU, Rachel D and MOM2KCK...I can't tell you how much being able to pick up the phone, cry, vent or just scream - meant to me.

I also pray. God has gotten me through many a dark times.

My sister and my best friend. Like you - both of them told me my ex was a total d*** and wasn't good enough for me. I stewed then made my decision....Judi has been with me for 35 years....so there are times I just need to think about her - and she knows....

Why do people have problem with coaches? BECAUSE THEY ONLY WAN TO COMPLAIN!!! WHINE!! AND KEVITCH (spelling). They don't want the situation to change - even though they SAY they do - they don't....they WANT to be the martyr...they want the attention of "ooh I'm sorry" but they DO NOT want to "FIX IT"...

I had a great response until my computer ate it.
So, in the interest of brevity, the cheerleader in me wants to tell you "WooHoo! Bring it!" because I am so right there with you about questions that include the disclaimer about wanting only "yes" men to answer...oops, I mean "only positive responses."

The coach in me admires a well thought out training plan and game plan but also knows that the need to respect the players who actually have to execute it on the field. The thing about coaches is that there is Tony Dungy and there is Bobby Knight....two very successful coachs with entirely different demeanors and treatment of players. Even Bobby Knight's own son didn't want to play for the old man! A coach tailors his message to what most motivates the team or specific players.

Since I'm not much of an athlete, cheerleader or coach, I'll just say that personally, I enjoy your answers. Sometimes I agree; sometimes I don't...and either way it's still ok.

I take everything to prayer when I really need help. I take it to prayer even when I don't need help. I am not one to rely on anyone for coaching or cheerleading. I think I wouldn't believe a cheerleader unless it was someone that really knew me.

I think I do a bit of both when I give advice.

I am usually the cold, blunt one. Sometimes my tatics work, sometimes they backfire in my face. The good thing is that occasionally the backfires, turn out for the good down the road and I am vindicated, but it sure does sting for the time being. I was the cheerleader till I matured and saw what a bogus deal, we get as we get older.

Thwacks upside the head, not kicks to the gut

Hugs, not platitudes

Showing up, instead of bowing out

J.,

I know you have already had a lot of answers to this question, but here is my two cents. The best advice I have heard in my darkest hours has been from my parents. It is almost never from them directly it is already in my head. They have acted both as coach and cheerleaders for as long as I can remember. I hear them in my head saying " Stay calm focus and work the problem." They always taught me that nothing is insurmountable. Problems always have solutions we just don't always like the way it works out.

Praying never hurts and provides a calm in the middle of the chaos. I just always thought that God "Helps those who help themselves", so the more I can do for myself the better the outcome.

J.

Didnt read the other comments and I dont know if you believe inGod or not BUT..God is always there for me in my darkest hour. He said that HE will never leave me or forsake me. If I cant talk to HIM then who can I talk to. As far as this board and the people being blunt..This is the internet! All that joinng hands stuff will never be. Just dont log on if you cant handle it. But I am not one of those rude people. However, I tell it like it is. And ifthat person cant handle it then they cant handle the truth.Im as real as it get. AndI want people to do the same for me. Be honest and give your honest opinion. Dont matter if I like it or not This board will not make my day any worse because I dont personally know any of you. Please always tell me the truth whether its rude, bluntand dont mattr if that person like it or not. We all askqestions and give answers, just be honest.

This is funny coming from someone who once reported me for calling her out for being wrong about my experience being a SAHM. You know, you actually got my answer pulled for saying I had to sacrifice to stay home with my kids, that it wasn't exactly the "privilege" some people make it out to be? Yeah, that was you, telling the admins I was being rude, or insensitive, or whatever your complaint was that day. Meh, water under the bridge now.

My darkest hour? I don't do well with "blunt" in my darkest hour. I do much better with sympathy and understanding. I can see my own faults better than most, people often tell me I am harder on myself than I need to be, I just need patience and time to make my own decision about things. And I also don't like joining teams, so the thought of anyone being my "coach" seriously puts me off.

Yeah, I don't care about either side. I can deal with it either way, but I don't like for someone to try to give it to me straight based on an assumption that was made and not the information given. I am more inclined to listen when I feel I'm being heard.

As I've expressed multiple times, I get annoyed when I feel like the question isn't answered. Dress it up pretty or strip it naked, but please send that answer to the ball. Otherwise, I feel unheard, and I feel like I'm reading a bunch of stuff that doesn't apply. It would be different if this forum were more conversational or just set up for us to respond directly to certain others. Since it's not, I like to get to the point without too much fluff. That extra info gets caught up in the mix and becomes the focus, and the question still goes unanswered. It's the way I communicate in my life, so I get impatient. I don't understand why if I lay out a scenario, those "givens" have to be questioned. For the sake of this particular scenario, just give me an answer based on the info that you have. If you can't, don't answer. Make sense? I'd rather have two responses that address the issue than 10 that don't. Let's just keep it simple please.

In my personal relationships, I am considered the tough love friend. They recognize that it isn't a self-righteous kind of honesty. I am just really good at seeing things from different angles and being objective. I prefer to deal in facts more than emotions, to keep it simple.

In my darkest hours, I steer clear of Mamapedia. I try not to bring anything here that is very near and dear to me. I honestly cannot think of a time when anybody else's words have jolted me to thinking straight. Talking and writing lead me to my answers, and they hit home when I hear them aloud in my own voice.