I am a live in girlfriend that is in relationship with my boyfriend and his 5 year old daughter in hopes of creating a family and someday marriage. We have his daughter 50% of the time(every other week). She is in kindergarten and started when she was 4. We have known for awhile that her desire to learn vs. play has created a challenge for her/us when it comes to school. We have also received feedback from her teacher that a lot of times she is not interested in going with the flow in class. She will most likely need to repeat kindergarten. We are currently debating on taking her out of school and placing her back in pre-school...however our income can't really support the cost of pre-school at this time. Really that issue needs to be worked out between her bio mom and my bf.
What we are seeking help with is her constant talking back. When talking with her bio mom and teachers we found that this is something that she does all the time. Last week at day care while waiting for the bus she refused to put on her jacket and her back pack when her teacher asked and the took off in the lobby making her teachers track her down. When I found out I notified her father, and that evening we had a long talk with her. We explained how she needs to behave and listen to her teachers, how dangerous it is if she runs off, how its not fair to the other kids to take attention away from them, and how the next time she did it we would have to ground her(2hours of time out in her room, no treats, no interaction, no favorite toys etc.)
The next morning I reinforced the conversation with friendly reminders to behave. That night we asked how she behaved and of course her answer was "good." The following day I went in to volunteer at her class and her teacher informed me that she would not be having play time this afternoon. Evidently during gym class she ran out without anyone noticing.Once they did they were calling and looking all over for her....after a while they found her hiding behind a trash can. Then her teacher told me that the day before she had took off as she was trying to load her and other kids onto the bus. And upon further questioning she talks back to her teacher all the time. I was astounded, frustrated, and very upset. That means that every day that week...well probably more then just that week, she completely disobeyed her teachers and our conversation went in one ear and out the other. Needless to say she got talked to that evening again, and this time grounded.
Her bio mom is having the same talk back issues and apparently there is no difference in her ill behavior from one week to another. We don't believe in physical punishment...so what do we do? How can we get her to stop the talking back/smart mouthing, and listen to her parents/elders/teachers?
This may be attention seeking behavior but you might want to seek help from the school counselors too cause when children can’t express themselves appropriately (what I mean is the underlining issues present) they act out and only a professional will be able to work through this with you
All I can say is that her behavior is not the problem.... only the symptom of a problem that she doesn't understand or know how to express. It sounds like long days away from family as you mentioned daycare also. Being in 2 households. Switching households week to week may be fine for adults but for a small child it's got to be very hard. Just as she gets settled in she is switched again new house , routine , rules, parenting style , . I'd reevaluate this family structure and think about it from her perspective. She seems to be testing everyone in her life searching for structure , consistency, boundries . These are essential for a child to feel loved. One of the adults may have to sacrifice some of "their time" so this little girl can stay in one home majority of the time. She's lucky to have you in her life wanting whats best for her and 2 parents that love her very much and want equal time. It just might not be whats best for her at this age in life.
Best wishes
It sounds like she is definitely NOT mature enough for kindergarten. Whether you let her finish out this year, or put her back in preschool, it seems like she will definitely have to repeat kindergarten. Children are expected to sit in their desks for much of the day in first grade, and listen, and cooperate. The running off could be a cry for attention, or acting out because of feelings she can't express. Some kids have a very hard time with living at one house 50% of the time, then switching especially if the two homes are not alike. Is she in counseling?
Hello,
Rina V really has some valid feedback. She is craving structure, consitency, and attention. When a kid runs away/hides, they are seeking attention to see if anyone cares enough to notice. My daughter sometimes hides from me on the playground when I come pick her up from pre-school and it's feedback to me that she wants to be loved up! So when I "find" her, I just reassure her that no matter where she hides, I will always find her and it's my job, becasue I love her so much....etc.!
There are so many changes in her life, I can imagine that she's scared that she is being left out or forgotten. Do what you can to provide the structure and consistency, but take every opportunity to take interest in her and LOVE HER UP....especially daddy and mommy....she's worth it, and I promise you, you will see a different girl. When my kids are acting up....it's only a reflection of me.....our garden needs constent attention.
Good Luck, and do the best you can do with what you have. They are fortunate to have you.
S.
I've heard great things about the book "1-2-3 Magic."
Also, keep everything consistent. Rules need to stay the same, schedules need to stay the same, etc. Don't keep on changing things to try and figure out how to control her behavior. Come up with concrete rules, make sure you communicate them to her, and stick to them. Stand your ground.
Discipline her bad behavior. Ask for a daily school report from the teacher. If she backtalks, etc, put her in time out for 30 minutes at home as soon as she arrives. Just because you're not there, doesn't mean there aren't consequences later.
Best of luck!
If she was still 4-almost/barely-5 when she started K, then most likely she is not mature enough to handle K and repeating it would be in her best interest. Did she have any kind of preschool prior to that where she was expected to follow directions and go with the routine?
She may be having a lot of trouble dealing with the fact that she lives in 2 different households, has to switch back and forth, and now you are in the picture as well. I would strongly consider some form of family counseling for ALL of you to better understand what she might be going through, and to get on the same page as far as discipline and household rules are concerned. The more consistent you all are, the better. All the talking and explanations in the world won't matter if she is acting out for some reason and is having a hard time expressing her feelings or coping with these changes in her life. She may feel the need to do these things out of wanting to be in control, when so much right now is out of her control.
If my daughter were talking about and acting up that much, there would be some serious consequences (nothing physical), but the thing is, my daughter lives in 1 house, with both parents, and isn't having to go back and forth and live with a different set of adults in different homes. There's no reason for her to act that way except for wanting to push boundaries and see what she can get away with. With your boyfriend's daughter, it may be partially that, but she's got a lot on her plate and she is dealing with it the only way she knows how. I hope you all will consider therapy with a professional to help her learn better ways of managing her feelings and behaving herself.
I'm going to answer this from very recent experience. Your daughter is not ready to be in K & is telling you this by all of this acting out. This is a call for help & voicing her frustration. Our son is now 6.5 but when he was 5 1/4, he started K & by November is was apparent he was not emotionally or developmentally ready for K. He also ran off from the class on a couple of occassions, was acting out & being silly to distract form the learning times cuz he was not understanding the concepts cuz wasn't he ready to understand them. We pulled him out & went back to preschool. I know you say you cannot afford to do this & neither could our budget. Went from $600/month K tuition to $1100 for the fabulous bridge K we Found.! It was a very tight 6 months for us but THE best money we ever spent. Got him so ready for K & this year is going soooo uch beter than last. He's understanding the concepts, is ready & eager to participate & even thoo we had him asesssed & he does have some learning differences, he's functioning pretty much at grade level. And most importantly, he is so much happier! No more grounding her or long time outs, she is not happy in K nor is she ready to be there. Finishing out this year & repeating will most likely not help. Pull her out now. If you keep her in K, her self esteem will continue to plummet, she will not feel good about school & these behaviors will only get worse. Look for a bridge K in your area. She will be around kids in the same boat as her emotionally & developmentally. Once you pull her, contact your local school district to get some assesssing started as some of the problems may be that she has a learning difference. Do not take the wait & see attitude, pull her out now. Good luck!
A five year old that wold rather play than learn is not unusual. I'd keep that in mind. I also would not punish her for something she did at school. I'd ask the teacher to do that. I strongly believe home should be a safe place. HOWEVER, you can help guide the teacher. Suggest the consequence fit the crime.
I'm not sure repeating kindergarten is the answer. If school is not her thing, then making her go an extra year may not make sense. Besides it may not have anything to do with maturity or what level she is on. The child probably should be tested to see whether she has learning differences. I would also ask if she is on medication of any kind that could be causing her to run off.
I don't believe in physical punishment either. That's why you have to be consistent and figure out the best consequence for the situation, as well as the child.
Example:
Adult: Please put your coat on.
Child: No
Adult: That's fine. You may choose to put it on or carry it.
(keep in mind the natural consequence here would be that the child is cold. Why make a big deal about it.) If the child refuses to do either....
Child: I don't want to.
Adult: Hmmmm. I'll have to think about that. Don't you worry about it though. I'll think about what I want to do if you don't want to cooperate.
Do nothing at the time.
Later, when you go somewhere and the child wants to bring her favorite toy.
Adult: Hmmm. No, I don't think so. You didn't want to even carry your coat this morning and I don't want to take the chance of that happening with your toy. That would be more work for me. (Or if the child came home without the coat.... "You forgot your coat and I don't want to take the chance you will forget your toy."
the child may throw a fit, but don't give in.
This technique is Love and Logic
Get the "Love and Logic" books...... I think they could really help you.
This book is great for what her mom, her dad, and you should be doing for at least a while when she is so completely oblivious to respecting authority. Back to Basics Discipline by Janet Campbell Matson. You want her to be happy, respectful, and successful in school. You want her to have self pride for acting well. All of our non spanking friends have pretty much eaten their words from years back when they scolded us for believing in some well placed swats when needed now that ALL of their kids are kindergarten age and older and TROUBLESOME and ours had a bit of spanking early on and no further trouble. My five-year-old daughter would not do this in a million years and it's NOT because she was born easy. She would have firm discipline (no long drawn out time outs or groundings necessary) at home if we ever got these reports, and therefore we never get those reports. She's homeschooled now, but even in K4 a warning was all it took to remind her to be respectful and follow the rules in school. She never needed discipline in daycare. She behaves for all of her music teachers and other teachers now. My very spirited four-year-old son is the same. I know you said you don't believe in physical discipline, but it's a pretty common theme with out of control kids; "We don't believe in spanking and our kid is running us all into the ground". You should still look for ways to do things your way, but check out the book for the standard of behavior you should attain, and be sure you attain it --by whatever other methods you want-- but attain it, so your step daughter can have a happy childhood and not be that "problem child". You don't go to the doctor and say, "I don't believe in antibiotics but I want to cure my infection". Keep an open mind if all else fails. Sometimes getting good behavior is the more important goal when things are out of control. Again, if you can do it another way, great, but don't snub a potentially helpful and effective tool at the expense of your step daughter. If all the talking and grounding isn't working, it's not working. It may work later if you toughen up for a while, or you may not even need it when she starts acting well.
wow that seems serious. Have you found out why she runs? is it for attention? to hide and be alone? because shes upset? maybe she wants to test people and see if they care enough to find her? Does her dad make alone time for J. him and her? From your previous question it seems shes looking for attention. Maybe make some family time for all three of you and then for each person seperate and go on fun adventures like train trips or J. sit and color and play with toys? I'd say keep talking to her and maybe put her in a sport that she loves and can be active in. One that she will learn respect of herself and others. My daughter was always so much better when in a sport. Id only have to say I'll tell coach John and she;d do whatever I needed. Have you tried making a chart for a few things that she can put stars on and earn a prize if she does them? Let her feel proud of herself by doing simple chores or helping cook to earn some stars and then have some collumns be for bahviour...maybe have the teacher send daily notes home too? Also putting her alone in her room for two hours with no interaction seems a little extreme...J. the length though
That all was probably useless info sorry=(
II am afraid I dont' have any really specific solutions. But I can't imagine "grounding" a child that young would work. Make the consequences tied to the behavior if at all possible (like losing the toy she is whining for) or make them meaningful, like taking away TV for a week or making her vacuum the house. Sitting in her room doing nothing or sleeping or worse playing won't do anything and will probably get her really frustrated.
Also, work on teaching her nice ways to talk. I have no problem with my kids disagreeing with me or even negotiating, but sass and anger and yelling is not tolerated. Make your expectations very clear, what is expected for your household and demonstrate how to respond better when she is tempted to backtalk. Make sure you are conscious of how you talk to her and the level of respect the adults show each other in your home or her Mom's home. You are modelling for her all the time.
As for the safety issue, I guess her hand needs to be held all the time. She will soon tire of that and being the only big girl who has to do it. The school might balk, but they need to keep her safe. You certainly should hold onto her until she earns your trust back. Or maybe she can't be allowed to ride the bus for a while.
Another year of Kindergarten might be a good idea or a private school environment (e.g., Montessori),
You can demand respect without hitting your kids for sure, you just need to develop her empathy, and find her currency.
I'm going through something similar with my 5 year old son. We remind him that we listen with our ears, not our mouths, and that we would like him to give us the same respect we give him when he has questions or requests for us. If I ask him to please wash his hands, he should go wash his hands, just like if he asks for a drink, I would get him a drink.
In regards to her running off from her class at school, I think that is something the school should have told you all about the day it happened, not wait until the following day. It's scary to think what could happen if she were to run off and no one noticed in time.
Does the school district offer a free pre-school program? Many do. It sounds to me like she is not mature enough to be in K and this situation is not fair to all involved including her.
One thing that I do when my 5 year old is talking back is:
First I give him to the count of 10 to get himself under control.
After that I send him to his room UNTIL he is ready to speak respectfully to me. He decides via his behavior whether he has to go to his room and how long he ends up having to stay there. This seems to make him more aware of the fact that he is in charge of his own behavior and motivates him to get his act together.
She's just barely five and she's trying to figure out her place in two different households. It's tough on her. She's probably looking for boundaries.
When my granddaughter she this same age, she came to live with me. We also had problems in kindergarten, although it doesn't sound like to the same extend you're having problems.
I got a daily report from the teacher when she was picked up. Basically, he would just look at her caregiver and give a thumbs up for a good day and a thumbs down for a bad day. That's all that was needed.
Each day that she got a thumbs down, she went home and spent the entire afternoon in her room. I will say that it didn't really seem to make any difference. She hated being in her room, but she just couldn't seem to keep it together at school. The entire year was rough and I don't believe my punishments made any difference at all.
The only thing that has made a difference is time and maturity. So, I think for your SD perhaps another round of kindergarten may do her good. HOwever. if she's grasping the academics, you might go ahead and let her go to first grade. I don't think she should be held back due to behaviorial issues because like I said, they will slowly resolve with maturity.
YOu just have to figure out what the consequences will be for particular behavior and then stick to it even if you don't feel like it's working. She needs consistency!
It sounds like you're really really trying to do right by this little girl and I commend you for that. You must also really love your boyfriend. I have a 5-year-old myself (just turned 5 too) and while I don't have those behavior issues to deal with I do have the talking back and attitude. My simple response is to say, flat out, with no emotion, no sarcasm, no anger: "that's not going to work for you." I also think grounding and extended time outs are not age appropriate. A child that age doesn't really understand a punishment that occurs so long after the "bad" behavior. You should continue to express your feelings of concern to her over her safety. Tell her how worried you are that something might happen while she's not with her class, tell her how heartbroken you would be if something bad happened to her while she wasn't being supervised.
And I also agree with other moms-- find a preschool or pre-Kinder program for her.
Good luck with this situation and in the future!
