Off Topic - but Still Wondering...

I think it makes sense to speak Tslagi if you come here, but English speaking people beat that habit out of my grandmothers.

Spanish was spoken here long before English (oldest city in the US is St. Augustine, which was a Spanish colony). Texas (and north to Wyoming) was Mexico long before it was the US. Certainly, English speaking people were the victors in the war(s) for this continent.

Mexico lost Texas in a war (and then it become an independent republic before becoming a state). Territories north were tossed away for a pittance by a frivolous Spanish prince. I can't recall all my history, but I think FL got thrown into that deal too.

My thoughts on this issue amount to:
1) History is fascinating, and history is now. Nothing stays the same forever
and a bit less diplomatically
2) What comes around goes around.

I think you made an assumption:

That because they were in public, that they were Trying to reach native English speakers.

My strong suspicion is that they were trying to reach Spanish speakers.
Trying to get the illegal community (and legal, still trying to bring family over) informed and rallied.

Because that's one of the hardest things in immigration reform:

- Breaking through the fear of people in hiding, to come out of hiding
- Breaking through the fear of those here legally to ALSO step up and be heard (coming from areas where standing up and being counted was a death sentence)
- Breaking through the fear if those here both legally & illegally of dealing with the govt & police, when many people come from countries with corrupt govt & police.

Gaining trust
Disseminating information
Reaching the widest audience (of their target group)
Speaking passionately
Is best done in a person's primary language.

So the BEST languages to accomplish all of that for southern immigrant would be either Spanish or Portuguese.

Outreach all depends on who you're reaching out to.

Can't preach to the choir, without FIRST having a choir to begin with.

Say there's 500 people in the reform movement
But 20,000 Spanish speaking immigrants

The movements FIRST aim should be to get at least 10,000 more Spanish speaking immigrants involved in the movement.
Power in numbers
Saftey in numbers
Change in numbers.

Some of the people you saw were likely bilingual. Spanish was the language used because it was the common language of the group. Spanish-speaking immigrants tend to be the ones who are working in the fields and in other hard labor/low wage jobs. In many families, the children work besides their parents because that is how the family survives. There is very little opportunity for them to learn English as they do not have the time, money or transportation. They are also afraid of being deported. What I mean is that they are not incapable of learning English, but that they do not have the opportunity. They certainly cannot afford tutors for their children nor trips to study the language abroad. The plan in many families is that eventually the children will be the ones to have the opportunity to learn, not the parents. I say all this because I live in a agricultural community. Farm labor is the foundation of our economy. I see people working hard in the fields everyday. Every single time I buy produce for my family to eat, I think of the work of those that made it possible for me to do so.

My grandmother never learned English. Of her many grandchildren, there is a professor, a lawyer, an art historian, a nurse and an education administrator. We all speak English quite well. So yes, you are missing something. You are missing the fact that the American dream is harder for some groups to achieve, but that those groups still have the same aspirations that you do for your own children. This truly is the foundation of our country. While it is true that some groups enter this country illegally in disproportionate numbers to other groups, it is also true that these are the people that provide the very food that we eat.

I don't know if you're missing something, I just disagree. Really, this land has hundreds of "native" languages. Dine (Navajo) and Cherokee are two of the most widely spoken. English is an uninvited import.

Beyond that, there is one surefire way to boost a child's intelligence -- teach that child more than one language. Why would Americans specifically want less intelligent children???

And while it's wonderful and commendable that you plan to visit South America, many (most) Americans don't have that luxury. I think it's wonderful that we have enough multiculturalism in our own country of immigrants that even kids who can't afford to travel can brush shoulders with people of different backgrounds.

Finally, I would encourage you to reconsider some of your assumptions. I have a good friend who is a legal immigrant. She came here on a professional visa, has a green card, etc. This friend is a fully fluent English speaker. She uses both Spanish and English in her professional life, but she speaks Spanish at home because she wants her children to have the benefit of growing up bilingual. I also have two friends (married to each other) who were born in the US as the children of Mexican immigrants. Their daughter is a 3rd-generation American, but they speak Spanish exclusively at home, again for the benefit of bilinguality. Finally, my BIL and SIL, who have no Latino/a heritage and are culturally very "white bread" are sending their daughter to a Spanish immersion preschool for the same reason. So, I would urge you to reconsider the assumption that if you hear the Spanish language, it's because the speaker can't or won't speak English.

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ETA: Sorry, I can't help but add this. Patty K., if you are so attached to the English language, I would kindly encourage you to uphold the English conventions of punctuation and to consider proofreading your post. You aren't doing the language, or your political position, any favors the way your post now appears.

The U.S. doesn't have a declared national language. Many people assume that we do, and that it's English. English may be a predominant language here, but Spanish is a very, very close second. It's extremely important in our childrens' education to allow them to learn Spanish or another Latin-based language so that they can function better when they're out in the world as adults.

I personally learned French (and some very basic Spanish), and I know some Italian as well. I have grandparents that immigrated from Canada, great-grandparents and in-laws that immigrated from Italy. In addition, on both sides of my mother's family tree there's significant Native American and Canadian First Peoples. My entire family on both sides is a family of immigrants and Native in very recent history. We have some of the strictest immigration laws in the world, but I think what gets to people is what they perceive as people looking for handouts and that must be why those awful, terrible illegals are here. Those immigrants are here with some agenda and they're not one of us. It's us versus them. And how dare they want what we have. We don't think there's enough. We're not generous enough to think there's ever enough for ourselves, let alone enough to share.

And so for some people, immigration reform means "lock the borders" and for others it means recognizing that "even" illegal immigrants are human beings and have human rights.

Every person I know who is of Hispanic descent speaks English, actually. Most of them also grew up speaking Spanish, so they are bilingual. I think that's great! It took me forever to learn a second language.

One set of my grandparents moved here from the UK. Both of them knew Gaelic, but because the Irish were looked down upon when they moved here, they both tried very hard to adopt a flat, Midwestern accent. They never spoke Gaelic to their children, and the language died out in our family. That really saddens me. We have lost a piece of our cultural heritage because my grandparents felt compelled to pretend they weren't Irish (and ironically, my grandfather was Scottish, so he didn't even have to pretend - but Americans in the 1920s were so incredibly racist that anyone with a different accent was seen to be Irish and spit on, kicked, moved to the back of the bus, etc).

So I know that we like to pretend that back in the good ol' days, people were "proud" to learn English, but actually, I think the ugly truth is that people felt like they couldn't be proud of who they were. They felt like they had to act like an "average" American, or risk being spit on, beat up, etc. There's nothing proud about that legacy. I'm glad immigrants now can actually be proud of their heritage and not feel compelled to give it up. All of us (except Native Americans) were immigrants to this country at one time or another. None of us has any more right to it than the next person.

Our current immigration laws are a mess. They absolutely need to be reformed so they make sense, and so that hard-working people who want to become Americans have a way to do so.

Hawaii's cultural and societal formation, is all from immigrants.
And it goes back, since before the downfall of the Hawaiian Monarchy...when the Native Hawaiian people, culture and language, was banned. By outsiders.
There are so many languages here, including English.
Recently, an actor from Hawaii said something like "Nowadays, being an American, doesn't mean you look like you came off the Mayflower...."
Because, we are all culturally and ethnically different. But still American. Even if we all have varied languages.

Our immigration issues here in Hawaii, are different from your State. Yes. But again, the generations and generations of people who live here in Hawaii, know that we all came from immigrants originally. And many even fought in the wars, and were American, but were treated like non-Americans and some even sent to concentration camps, like the Japanese at that time. Because, they had a different native tongue. Even if they were, US citizens. And when sent to the concentration camps, they lost everything they had. Land/jobs/means of living. Even if they were, US Citizens and spoke English.

People come here for many reasons.

My Husband is an immigrant. From Europe. Is he, just because he looks like he came off the Mayflower, any more or less American than another? He is a citizen. Speaks languages. Not just English.
My kids are multi-lingual.

Here in Hawaii, Spanish is not a dominant language.

The problem is that America has no established language. Even from the beginning there have always been different cultures here. I agree that the "illegal" aspect of it needs to be fixed. But things will only change when we accept the fact that we're all immigrants. No particular group should be narrowly inspected.

Princessmama: the established language of the U.S is English! Anyone who wants to be here, like immigrants I the past, learn English. They were proud to learn the language. My grandmother spoke only English outside the home. She felt it was the proper thing to do. At home, some Greek, some English

I agree with you. My mother is a European immigrant and of course learned to speak English. It was a given. She MOVED here. If she wanted to keep speaking her native language, she would have stayed. A friend moved here as a kid from China and was thrown into English speaking classes. She said she just learned English quickly! She thinks is way better than dual language. I just don't get it. English is the language of the US. A country has to have one language. Don't other countries? So if people want to live here, speak English. That's not anti immigrant. As I said, my mother is one. But she agrees. So does our former nanny from South America. It's one thing to be proud of your heritage. It's another to cling to it so fiercly that you try to impose it on your now home country. I believe we're all Americans. That's what should come first. Every time my kids discuss heritage, I remind them that we're all Americans. That to me is unifying and should come first. If being of "xyz" heritage is so important, why not live in that country vs here? All the focus on heritage should be secondary as seems to be so divisive. I just can not imagine deciding to move to say France and not assuming I will from then on speak French in public and for all business transactions etc. It would strike me as so arrogant to assume I wouldn't so I just don't understand the idea of moving here and trying to impose another language on the US. Maybe English isn't the official language but it's been the dominant one for years and years.

I truly, honestly think...people who don't live in places seriously effected by immigration...can't understand the need for reform. Illegal immigration, is a huge (did I mention HUGE?) problem here. People who live in places, that don't have a lot of illegal immigrants...I just don't think they can relate to how incredibly it taxes our system. I don't think immigrants aren't human. And, I am not naive to the conditions people live in. ( I went to Juarez 5 years in a row, to build houses and deliver aide to the communities there. yes, I learned Spanish.) However, we have to do something about reforming our system. I do not want to lock up the borders. In fact, it's a small number of people who actually do. I just want SOMETHING to be done about it, and I don't think there is a darn thing wrong with that.

And NO, we are NOT "all immigrants." Some people in my family a few generations ago were. I was BORN here. I am a BORN CITIZEN. Not a freaking immigrant. Give me a break people. We don't have to be so neat and PC about everything.

Hmm. maybe I am missing something. Immigration reform is less about language and more about rights of immigrants (legal and non-legal) to have access to things like fair housing, fair wages, healthcare, shools, etc.
Again, I could have missed that in your post. . . .

Just because they were chanting in Spanish doesn't mean they can't speak English, ya know?

This is actually a subject that stirs around in my head from time to time. All four of my grandparents were immigrants from Sicily. They took pride in learning English, they felt it made them Americans. Mine was the first generation not to be fluent in Sicilian, yet no one in my family would ever speak Sicilian in public, they considered it rude. Probably because the handful of times they did, they were being rude, like talking about others.

The odd thing about that last bit is whenever I hear people speaking their native tongue I assume they are talking about someone, my issues I suppose.

Still where I end up at is a dead end. Has this country changed since my grandparents immigrated or have the people immigrating? Here in St Louis there is the Hill. You didn't live there unless you were Italian or Sicilian. Good luck buying a home there if you didn't, they just wouldn't sell to you, easy because no home was ever put on the market, I digress.

If you were on the Hill you could speak Italian or Sicilian and know that the other was making fun of your destruction of their language. Leave the Hill and you spoke English and you had to leave because most people worked outside of the Hill.

So accept this as normal immigration in the early 1900s is it different that some Mexican immigrants came over in such numbers that an entire city is their "Hill"? So if you never left the city are you any different than my family?

Like I said, dead end. About the only true difference I see is this crazy need to have every language represented on packaging. Well that and more annoying that some packages put English at the very end...

I understand, love your post!
My great grandparents came from Germany and Austria when they were teenagers. They both learned to speak English! My great grandmother moved away from an evil step mother and started in a new country with a new language as a teenager! Why can't other's enter in the same legal way?

Love your post.

I think anyone who doesn't live in Texas have absolutely no idea how difficult our immigration issues are. Its not a matter of simply reforming.

Yes, we are a conservative state, but as long as some of you want to point out missed assumptions, just because we (Texas) want to protect our borders doesn't mean we view illegal immigrants as non humans, people unworthy of a better life. That is the greatest missed assumption people have when other people say they want to protect their borders.

I get your point. If you want the attention of a lion in a room full of rats, you wave around a steak, not a piece of cheese. Who cares if the rats likes steak too?

Agree with Jessica Wessica ...there is not a national established language at the federal level for the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_United_States). 28 states and some of the territories have established English. In some of those states, the law was overturned and ruled unconstitutional.

I thnk you have missed something and agree with others they were trying to establish unity. No need to jump to the conclusion they cannot speak English ... They were just choosing not to. And it happens with more than illegal immigrants. We are still a melting pot.

I couldn't agree with you more. Learn the language of the country your in before hollering about reform. Other ethinic groups have came and mastered the english.

In Canada we are considered a multi-cultural society. We have two official languages, French and English. We do have many other languages spoken here. Generally what happens and what has happened since the first immigrants arrived in Canada is that the first generation speak their own language more than they speak English. They belong to clubs and churchs where their mother tongue is spoken, and learn just enough English to get by. The second generation who have been educated here speak primarily English, but learn their families mother tongue. By the third generation they lose the mother tongue all together.