Reporting Neglect/kids Not Going to school-Who Do We Contact?

I have started homeschooling and as soon as were done, all of my son's stuff gets put away. There is no proof of homeschooling in my house because everything is always put away if not being used.

I'd be chatting them up about the homeschooling to make a more informed opinion, before I made an assumption & took action on something that could possibly do more harm than good.

We frequently have boxes here and there for months after we move. (And our couch frequently has laundry being sorted and folded on it.)

Since I homeschool my kids, I think you might be too hasty in deciding that they're not doing any schooling. This is our 5th year of homeschooling, and we don't have a home classroom. Some families do, and that works great for them, but we don't. My daughter usually does her work at the kitchen table. My son frequently does his in his room. If you were to go up there right now, you'd find his AP Biology book and his required reading (Rob Roy and King Arthur books) on his bed.

We frequently only take about 2 hours to get book work done. Every now and then, I'll say that to someone who is horrified, but think about how much of a regular classroom day is spent on crowd control and moving between activities. "OK, everyone put away your science projects and get out your math books" is a major logistical issue when you have 35 to 40 students in a room. My kids also don't have to line up, change classrooms, wait while the teacher works with (or disciplines) another student, or anything else that takes so much time in a group setting.

We can also do school work any time of day. We frequently do some work in the morning (about 2 hours), take a break or watch instructional DVDs or videos in the afternoon, then go online or use computer programs after dinner. We also have co-op classes, field trip groups, debate team, rehearsels for dance or theater programs... a lot of stuff that isn't sitting at a desk.

Anyway, the long and short of it is that our day may not resemble a "regular" school day at all, and that's OK.

Sometimes I'll talk to someone who is horrified to discover that a homeschooled student is "behind" what they think they should be - say, a 2nd grader who still struggles to read. The knee-jerk reaction is to say, "Those parents shouldn't be allowed to teach him at home! He's falling behind!" If a student in public or private school is struggling or behind, nobody says, "That school (or teacher) shouldn't be allowed to teach!" My son's best friend couldn't read until 5th grade, and still struggles with spelling as a junior in high school, and he was in every program the school district offered; no one suggested that he be yanked out of public school.

Anyway, I've been quite wordy, because you hit on a sore spot with me. I don't mean to be overly critical, and I think you're well intentioned, but that you shouldn't make any judgement call yet.

Before you call authorities on a family, I'd wait for a lot more than an "I wouldn't do things that way" feeling.

WOW, people like you, really irritate me. I say, mind your own business.

ETA: I just read your updated post. I still say MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. You are still making an assumption. One that doesn't even seem legit enough to call CPS.

You need to get your facts straight first. You can easily figure out if these children are behind in their academics. If you truly want to help this family or these children then do the right thing and find out facts first, calling CPS is not the right way.

Also, you should not completely change your original post. Adding info is fine but not changing the entire post.

I have quite a few friends who homeschool. One of them has early-rising children and they do their schoolwork from about 8 a.m. to Noon every day. Afternoons are spent doing enrichment-type things. For example, they attend an art program and a band program away from home and they also take gymnastics and play on sports teams starting at about 3 p.m. Sometimes in the afternoons they read or do crafts. Their kids are all ahead of others their own age even though their schooling is unconventional. I would never do it, but it works well for them.

I think your husband might be jumping to conclusions, and reporting a family to child services is a horrible way to show concern for them! If he is truly this man's mentor he should chat with him about what he has seen and maybe he'll get a better understanding of how their schooling is done and why there are boxes here and there.

nothing you have mentioned to me seems like neglect. I have several friends who home school. some do their teaching in the morning, some in the evening. They may not have a setup that looks like a classroom, and they dont really need one as long as they have the proper materials. some people just live differently than others, some people eat in different places. If they have food, clean clothes, love and attention, a roof over their head and security then I dont see an issue. I think, based solely on the little info you provided here, that you are very much over reacting. it is also possible that they just dont have the financial ability to buy a lot of furniture and don't want to go into debt putting things on credit, who knows. without detailed or even more info to go on it is so hard to tell.

ETA: you should really not delete your entire ORIGINAL post and write this, you should have just updated in the "so what happened". and again, nothing to be seems to be so bad that you need to report them to CPS or even the board of education. So sorry that other people's children aren't as smart and advanced as your children seem to be but that doesnt mean that they are being abused or neglected. in this case you really need to stop judging them and get a life.

Oops, I think you may not have realized how your individual assumptions and biases are shading your perspective.

A child can receive an excellent education without sitting at a desk between the hours of 8:00am and 3:00pm.

It seems you may not be aware that homeschooling families often spend less (but more productive) time 'sitting at a desk'. Consider that in a public school there is one teacher per 20-30 students as apposed to one parent with, in this case, two children. Lessons can be taught and learned more efficiently when their are fewer pupils to supervise, and when there are lesson plans suited to the specific learning needs of a few students only.

Additionally, homeschoolers may make lesson plans and go on excursions around their families needs, rather than a school clock. Some children are most focused in the morning, others in the afternoon, yet others in the evening or night. A parent can decide when to teach/explore/socialize/exercise based on their children's level of focus/energy/social ability, and their own needs.

How a child learns is very individual. Some children learn best through motion, with visual aids, by participating, through repetition, etc. In a homeschool setting, a parent may decide to teach using their children's strengths. I think the term *home* school can be misleading since most homeschooling families I know spend very little time teaching at home. More likely they are at a farm, a zoo, on a mountain, at the pool, at a college science lab, etc. They have the freedom to take their lessons to the places their children are most likely to learn (and with the most joy).

Finally, having cardboard boxes around after a move does not indicate neglect.

How can you know this for sure? Did your husband ask questions while he was there? Maybe they are on "vacation" or a break. Since they are homeschooled and get individual attention they not need as much time to meet the requirements and they can set their own schedule. Especially with 2 kids, maybe there is a set place for everything and it was put away for a guests visit. How many of us are guilty of having cardboard boxes around long after we move? I don't know that you have enough info to make a call.

Your post is really vague but it smacks of being really judgmental on how the children in that house "should" be progressing compared to children that are in public school or other school settings, and even to other homeschooled children. How do you know that these children don't have learning disorders, severe learning delays, or neurological disorders that the parents have to contend with? You may have gotten to know the wife a bit and your husband may be "an associate" of the husband, but that doesn't mean you know all of their private business, especially if there are medical and neurological disorders at play with their children.

In other words, if the children appear happy and healthy and the family as a whole seems happy, then you need to back off and butt out. This isn't up to you to investigate and you're dangerously overstepping.

EDIT: Don't throw around the world "neglect" loosely. Neglect refers to the childrens' well being and care. Are they fed? Clothed? Bathed? Supervised? Are the parents guilty of child endangerment? If your only concern is that they're not schooling the children to your standards then you shouldn't be poking around and asking questions. You sound like a busybody.

I would open a dialog with the kids before jumping to any conclusions. I have a friend that home schools but she has no classroom set up. Fractions are learned via cooking and many other things are learned about in hands on ways. Ask the mother what home schooling methods are being used. Make up something like being unhappy with your own child's education and were looking into other options if you must.

I know I am a bad mover. We are military and you would think that I would have all the tricks down, but I do not. I have moved 7 times in 6 years and let me tell you, I have not gone through and unpacked everything in any of the moves.

While I agree that you don't really describe enough "neglectful" evidence in your post, I think it is nice to show concern for these children. If we all just minded our own "flippin" business some kids in this world would be in a world of hurt. As a people, we are designed to care for each other so I am glad you came here looking for advice. Very sorry others have bit your head off for it. Having said that, I would get to know this family better. Homeschooling can take on a very different look than a traditional school setting. I know families that have been very successful with homeschooling, but have also had homeschooled kiddoes come to my classroom that are severely lacking in academics as well as social skills, so it is very hard to tell what the situation is at home.
HTH,
A.

There are many people within homeschooling that do "unschooling", which doesn't mean that the children don't learn, but that they learn what they are interested in. Some parents may use this as an excuse not to teach them anything at all, but most unschoolers I know are very interested in teaching their children, but want their children to retain their delight and interest in learning, so don't want to force them to learn things that they have little or no interest in.

I lean toward unschooling myself, but do teach the kids some formal lessons as well. However, we do not think that the kids need to be "in school" sitting down at a desk for 8 hours a day in order to learn. There is a lot of learning that can take place away from desks, with household activities or outdoor activities. Also, we do not abide by the public school calendar, and "have school" on weekends, at night, and/or during the summer or other holidays as we see fit. If you were to come to our house and expect to see our kids sitting at the desk or table from 8 a.m. to 3 p.m. with short breaks for lunch, recess, and between classes, you'd be sorely disappointed. And, for full disclosure, my husband is a public school teacher. :-)

Some children just don't learn to read at the expected/"normal" pace. My sister's two children learned to read at very different rates. She homeschools, but has lessons with curriculum, very much like a traditional school. The older child, a girl, was struggling to read until she was 7 or 8, or possibly later, and then suddenly understood it and became a voracious reader. Her brother, who was two years younger, was reading with greater comprehension, skill, and ease at 5-y/o than his older sister was at 7. But as I said, it finally "clicked" with her, and she's "got it" now.

What I would suggest doing is getting to know this family better, clear your mind of the idea of "neglect", and start afresh with an open mind about this family and their choices for education. You seem to have already judged them as neglectful, simply because they have made out-of-mainstream choices, and I have presented that perhaps they are not, and may be even more thoughtful than the average parent who just sends their kids through school like an assembly line. It's possible that they are neglectful, but you need to look at it from both sides before making that judgment.

It's hard to sense what is going on unless you're in the household. Reading isn't a good way to gage. I homeschool my 5 children and two of them weren't reading until after age 8 and one was 10. My others were 5 and 7. I used the same curriculum but two of mine struggled. I was criticized harshly because of this. I had them tested and took them to the doctor and my doctor said that they are fine. It's just taking them longer. I also had 3 of my kids walk at twelve months. One walked at 9 months and one didn't walk until almost 17 months. They're all different. If you're judging them based on reading and that you "sense" there is no structure, then I think you might be causing trouble on a family that doesn't deserve it. I'd talk to them personally rather than jumping to conclusions. If there was concern, the "red flags" would be different than what you are saying.

That's great that you are showing concern for the children. But I think, since you said these people were your husband's friend, maybe you and your husband may know of some services that can help him. Or as Bobbi said, take the time to talk with them.

There must be a reason that they choose not to send their children to school (hey it's free).

Having financial problem is no easy thing to deal with. I don't think right now it's necessary to report them. You are not certain that they are not being educated at home.

Me myself, would try my best to help them first, especially if they are my friend :)

They do have to report back to the school board. It seems the board would catch wind that this is not going well. If you were going to report them for school purposes, it would be the school board in their area. If you are reporting them because they don't have chairs to sit on, I guess you are speaking of child protective services. However, I don't believe they will do anything unless you find they are not cared for. Was the house filthy and infested? Was there nothing to eat every time he went to visit. I don't think one visit is enough to assess the damages. My opinion.

Report them. I know many homeschool families. I understand people wanting to defend them. In this case, trust your instincts. Stand up for the girls. If they are doing right, they can easily show up.

Here a local school told a M. that if her children were not at free tutoring, she would call CPS. The M. refused to miss cheer and dance classes so she withdrew them. She claimed to be homeschooling, but it was obvious they weren't.. Now the kids are in school and much happier.
Plus the parents are being watched and know they can't count on one of their kids becoming the next Hannah Montana to support the family.

You sound as if you have good instincts. I think asking about what books and programs the parents are using, which ones they most most effective and which ones are not so good might be a good start.
If the parents are dedicated to home schooling, they would most likely also be interested in sharing the positives and strengths of such.
If the answer is vague and non involved I would be concerned. Then if you are still concerned you could write or call the school counselor anonomyously.

I understand that parents have basic rights to do what they want with their children but as far as I have been told if the kids are not in school the parents must be able to prove the kids are doing school work and are able to show what curriculum they are using, etc...my one friend that did home schooling to her gifted children took them to the college she was a professor at each day. They sat in her office to do their school work and took their tests in the college library under the supervision of the proper testing person on that campus. The librarian sent in the test scores for the standardized testing scores and the kids did very well.

Sounds like this family just needs to become more aware of how other kids compare to theirs, with respect to their education, and where they need to be. I think you need to have more talks about the kids in a kind manner and express your concerns, and educate the parents of where the kids should be. May be they need to know what they're up against, and what can happen if they're not educating their kids properly.( may be examples of other cases). since you're in Utah, and if they go to your church, how about getting advice from the elders without revealing their identity. There's just not enough info yet to get the state involved. Not sure if you're from Utah. Utah is a very progressive state. Much more so than some other places like in the south for instance, where things could be very different. I'm not LDS, but lived in utah for many years and familiar with the culture. Education is very important to the mormons and this family could be helped properly. Hopefully, there's no prejudice here.