Need Suggestions on Keeping Patience While Disciplining My Kids!

Hi A.,
My brother has the same problem with his 2 daughters (8 and 4 yrs old). They are always fighting. He has started taking things away from them if they don't behave. If he has to tell them more than a few times, the thing he takes away goes in the garbage. It has worked for him.

I only have one son. But I have the same problem where I'll lose my temper because he won't listen. I found that good behavior sticker charts work. They get a sticker for each day they behave and after 10 days get a small treat. Then they have to go another 10 days or whatever you come up with. Eventually they will just get used to getting along and will possibly listen more and fight less. It's worth a try.

Good luck.

L.

Dear A.,

You really should get a book called "Real Boys". I got my copy on EBAY for $5. It is a wonderful book written by a very knowledgeable psychologist.

That will help you, and also, you just need to stop yelling and be very decisive about separating them for a period of time when they begin battling. ALSO, you can get them to do some sort of project together. I don't know what because they are so far apart in age. Maybe you can get an idea by talking to the 9 year old. He needs to be rewarded every single time that he does something positive. The little one too, but do concentrate on the older one. He probably is a bit sick of having everyone fawn over the 'baby'. So give him a lot of positive feelings. O.K.? C. N.

Hi, when my kids (10 and 6) start fighting, instead of refereeing (sp?) them, I make them a team. I tell them I don't care who starts it, if I hear arguing, fighting, etc. they both lose something or go on time out. So they better not make the other one mad because they are both in trouble. Then you really have to stick to it. Even if it seems unfair. Unless you have one child who is really instigating trouble without any provocation, which usually isn't the case. Sometimes as punishment I'll assign a chore that they have to do together such as emptying the dishwasher. They have to work as a team to get the job done which helps them to find ways to be "nice" to each other. Hope this helps.

L.

Please, please, please do yourself and your kids a favor and tune in to Super Nanny. Without judging you--really and truly--you are reaping what you have sowed. The kids are acting out as a direct result of what's happening in the home. It's no one's fault. This isn't about making you "wrong" or labeling you a "bad" mother. That would be ridiculous. The very fact that you have reached out for help shows how concerned and caring you are. What you probably don't know, however, is that you are inadvertently creating the very situation that you are experiencing. Your yelling is directly connected to their punching and hitting each other. They are learning how to solve problems and express themselves from watching you. Ergo, they are doing not as you say but as you do.

I suspect that your boys may be picking up in a very profound way that they have become a bit of a nuisance to you--again, not judging you--just they are acting out on a feeling that the only way to get any real attention is by misbehaving. Try setting limits, using time-outs, have direct, to the point, and brief communication with them when they are acting up, and above all, strike a balance between all of this disciplining with a strong dose of fun and loving time spent in family activities.

It's 100% your responsiblity--notice, I didn't use the words fault or blame. Just plain ol' responsibility.

HI A.

The only suggestion I have is to make them your priority, get down on their level and listen to them.

I don't know if you have a lot of pressure to accomplish these "tasks" but those boys are a full-time job and don't let anybody tell you otherwise!

Listen to them and take the time to teach them what they need to know about being people and brothers and family.

There is no greater investment.If they know they are loved and worthy of your time it is a priceless investment.

Take joy in spending time with them and teaching them.
The housework and whatever can wait but they cannot.

Best wishes and prayers
S.

i'm not sure if this will actually help, but sometimes i just tell my kids i won't be their referee. they are only 4 and 3, but come whining and complaining about each other all the time. unless someone has broken a big rule, like hitting, i tell them they have to figure it out together. (4 yo is a girl and i've had to tell her if she really wants to keep something she has to hold on tight!)

they also know that if they can't figure out how to play with something (sharing, taking turns, one just surrendering) then i will step in and just take the toy. i'm not yelling at them and they're not in trouble, they're just not ready to play with that toy unless they can find out a system that works (i also don't usually offer suggestions, their sense of "fair" may not be accurate, but if they agree on it then it doesn't matter what i think. so far i've never had one of them bully the other into an agreement that wasn't at least mostly fair, since they both have to agree!)

my kids are also under the impression sometimes that if one is being mean i will still make them play together. i tell J (3 yo b) all the time that if he's not nice to C (4 yo g) i won't make her play with him, she can go do something else. that's usually enough to get him to be nice since he'd rather play with her than without. (i also have time set aside every day where i MAKE them play alone and just tell them they in that time they get to have their stuff all to themselves for a while. this helps them to come back and play like they haven't seen each other for a while and be nice)

sometimes i just hear them fighting and i'll go in and say "are you guys having fun?" they'll say no and i'll just tell them that they should try to do something different so they can have fun instead. usually they'll get over their fight, or i'll mention they need to work it out.

i don't know what to tell you about bed time, unless one has forgotten to brush their teeth, needs to go potty or is having pain, ours don't get back up. but they know if they do (for reasons other than those i just mentioned) they'll have time out. this happens so rarely i guess i'd just say be consistent, don't let it ever be ok to get back up and they'll figure it out.

this may not help you since you're boys are so far apart and a 9 year old can really do some damage to a 3 year old (my kids are only 11 1/2 months apart and pretty the same size, only a pound apart). But i watch when i see them playing rough and wrestling or playing rough tag and i just nicely say "wow, you guys look like you're having a lot of fun! remember that sometimes you get hurt playing like that, it's ok, but if it happens this time you can't get mad at each other and try to get each other in trouble since you are CHOOSING to play that way. Have fun!" inevitably one or the other will get hurt, and they come crying "j stepped on my finger!" and i just say, "oh that's too bad! but remember, you chose to play that way and sometimes that happens." i'll let him kiss it if he wants, but i don't really want to make them feel too bad for those kinds of little accidents. (sometimes just mentioning they're playing rough is enough to get them to remember to be a little more careful)

wow that's long. i hope it's helpful!

A.

Hi A.,

Try the techniques in the following two books:

1) How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk; and

2) Siblings Without Rivalry: How to Help Your Children Live Together So You Can Live Too.

Both are written by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish. I've tried the techniques in the first book and they work with my 4.5 year old. Have yet to try the techniques in the sibling rivalry book as my youngest is only 6 months old and rivalry has yet to rear its head. But the book's principles are taught in parenting classes through my daughter's preschool.

Hope this helps!

R.

go online to terrificparenting.com and Randy Cale will have an answer for you.

Make them tired....take them to the park, play outside. Make sure that there is activities that are appropriate for both age levels. It is okay to separate them too for some quite time. I have had to limit TV, video games and chase type games. They end at 5:00 and after that the TV is usally on my TV or off.

Set a schedule and stick to it....at first it will totally inconvience you but it is worth it in the end. There will always be set backs but if there is a routine to return to, everyone will be happier.

I hope this helps.

I have four sons, and never really had this problem, but I want to caution you against the "boys will be boys" thinking. i never understood what exactly that was supposed to mean. What is that saying? That boys are uncontrollable, unable to listen, and just generally unmanageable, and you should just accept it? I have to strongly disagree.
Make sure you are not asking too much of your nine year old. Is he expected to watch and monitor and play with the little one while you get things done around the house? Does he get in trouble, too, when the little one gets into mischief? Just a thought, because that would definitely cause resentment and negativity. It sounds like they need a lot more structure and stability in their lives, and that's not easy, especially for a single parent. It starts and ends with you. You are the head of the household and you set the stage. If you do not know how to "fix" the situation, watch a few episodes of Supernanny. She wasn't around when my kids were small, but the principles never change. Here is the bottom line. It isn't about your kids. It is all about you. You can do the work to fix the situation in your home, or you can live with it the way things are. Change your behavior and your kids will change. Not easy, but worth it. Good luck!

Most of the time kids do bad things for attention. My children fight when I am doing something too. Children love are attention, but we can't always give it to them. Some suggestions maybe to make choices and consequenses, say your boys are fighting tell them once, if you continue to fight I will have to put you in different rooms, its your choice and if they fight again instantly put them in different rooms. Another thing never yell when they fight get to there level and speak very softly and let them know how they could have handled the stituation better. Give some much attention to the good and not the bad, dont get mad when the do something wrong, some children like negative attention, if you have anymore questions let me know, always at mount san jactino college they have free parenting classes, call child development center and they can tell you when the classes are. Its only and hour and half once a week, I went and it really helped me.

good luck I know its hard, kids can be so fun and so hard at the same time

cloe

Being a single Mom is one of the greatest challenges on earth! Your boys are with a sitter or a day care while you are at work and heaven knows what kind of behavior they see there.
They may need more attention from you, positive attention. I noticed that with mine, they would get some kind of attention, negative or positive, but it would be attention. When I realized I was way to caught up in my "stuff" I started taking more time with them. This helped a lot.
When they started getting into it anyway there was time out. Time out was strictly enforced. Old fashioned chair to the wall, no one talks to them, one minute per year i.e. your 3 year old 3 minutes and the 9 year old 9 minutes.
Yelling never worked, never! They simply pushed the buttons until I yelled then I gave up and they did what they wanted.
I also suggest you keep a rigid schedule of meals and bed time.
Your 3 year old first, spend time reading to him and tucking him in. Then spend time with your 9 yearl old before he goes to bed. Once in bed there is no more talking.
They may get up, just put them back without saying anything. Let them have a small glass of water beside their bed so that is not an excuse.
Also avoid high calorie sweets, including sodas. Give them a healthy diet, make sure they have physical exercise to tire them out, enforce time outs, feed them at the same time daily, get them to bed at the same time everyday.
It is a lot of work, but once they are in bed it is your time.
God Bless you
D.

Sibling rivals!!! I'll be reading your responses to help me in advance. I have two boys (4 yrs. and 2 yrs.) who are mostly good at playing together. They do have their moments of physical retaliation. The one thing I have found for my boys so far is to get them involved in an activity that they both enjoy doing that is more structured. It may be baseball, coloring, building, whatever... but for some reason, when I start out the activity with them, they seem to get along for a longer amount of time. When I leave them to find things to do on their own, that's when the biggest fights break out. I've also found that when I remain calm while dealing with them in a fight, I am more able to "control" them. If I yell, it adds fuel to their fire and the tension increases. You're not alone in dealing with sibling rivalry.

I would suggest a very easy-to-read book called "Siblings Without Rivalry" by Faber and Mazlish. I know lots of moms who have found it incredibly helpful. The same authors wrote "How to talk so kids willl listen and listen so kids will talk" which is also a great book - and again, easy to read. Good luck, A.

My advice is simple....... watch, and pay close attention to Jo Frost "Supernanny"....... she is incredible! Guidelines, (for you and your children) with consistent follow-up. I am not associated with the show in any way....... just a fan.
Here is a link for further information.
http://www.tv.com/tracking/viewer.html?tid=98556&ref_...

I had boys ~7 years apart; because the younger child suffered chronic illness and consumed our time and energy, the elder became understandably resentful. The first encouragement I will share is they eventually grew out of it, after the older son turned 18! The second thing is - you CAN stay sane until they mature!

The difficulty comes most often because they're at very different phases, with different interests and abilities, but both need your attention. Also, the younger will also contribute additional frustration to his sibling with the "tagalong" factor--he wants to do, have, be everything his older brother does, has, is. The first thing you want to do is make sure each has ways to expend energy, preferably OUTSIDE. Then, find ways to spend time with each individually -- split them up so you and the boy's father each have one-on-one time with each child. Then set some run rules for behaviors. Understand, they're still kids, so the rules will be broken. Even when they're playing agreeably, they'll find ways to surprise you (like the time mine were replicating some Karate moves from a cheesy movie and the younger son ended up with a broken collar bone).

Finally, when you find yourself loosing patience, take a bath (or some other totally indulgent activity). Good luck!

Hi A.. I have an 8-year-old daughter and a 9-year-old niece who don't live together but do see a lot of each other. There have been times when all I do is support the problem-solving. What seems to help is to talk to each one individually when there isn't a problem. I know this may seem contradictory because then you are bringing up issues during a peaceful moment, but this is when they are more likely to be able to think more clearly without a whole lot of feelings clouding their thinking. Try asking what each of them need from the other. If it is possible to let them vent a little it might help. Especially for your older boy since (being the eldest myself) my guess is that he might somehow be feeling like things are tipped in his younger brother's favor. Asking both of them to make agreements and maybe even writing them down into a "contract" that they can both sign gives you all something to refer to in those really difficult moments. Maybe you can even include what they need from you and vice-versa when they are having difficulties. I know this may sound a little out there and like it may not work given the age difference, but I have done this with kids I work with and they are all of various ages. If nothing else it helps to know that you are being heard and your needs taken into account without judgement. Good luck, I hope this helps.

hi you can go to harbor regional center in torrance to see if they offer behavioral classes. i also learned that when i control my anger my 3 year old listens better. good luck

I have a 4 yr old boy and 7 yr old and they also were fighting alot. The 7 yr old would tease the 4 yr old and wouldnt stop until the 4 yr old would hit. I decided to start the rewards jar for them and it really works well. I got two plastic jars and they each got to decorate them with stickers and we had stickers with letters so we spelled each of their names on . Then I found tiny little bowling pins, dinosaurs, eye ball balls and put them in a third jar. I wrote their jobs on a paper I placed on the refrigerator and for the 7 yr old he had to STOP teasing when the 4yr old used his words, that is what the 4 yr old had to do. Also one child had to set the table the other brought in the dirty dishes. Also they got a reward token if they were good listeners and didnt fight. I had different "prizes" that had token amounts on post it. A book was say 20 reward tokens so when they earned that many they could trade in the reward tokens.. Not every thing was a gift, some were 15 mins extra to stay up, or 15 mins extra WII time.. The fighting really has gotten lots better.. Good luck with your guys.

Personally I don't believe in that whole "boys will be boys" thing. I think that all kids are capable of behaving, and that all kids are capable of that "boyish" behavior (my daughter is one). There are several things you can do that might help. First of all, read one of the "Parenting with Digninty" books by Marc Bledsoe- the one I read helped me imensely. But in general you need to stay calm, patient, and positive, no matter what your kids do- I know how hard that is. But instead of yelling and telling them no or telling them what to do, both of your boys are old enough for questioning. If one hits the other ask "why did you do that?" (calmly) and "how do you think that made your brother feel?" "What might have been a better choice?" Questions force a child to slow down and refect on their actions and the consequences of their actions. And speaking of conseqences- for major infractions time out should work for the three year old. I'm not going to lie, I'm not as familiar with disciplining a nine year old, so I won't venture to give you any ideas there. Just remember never use empty threats, and always stick to your guns and follow through.

Another thing to consider is your childrens' needs- think about the times when they act out most often. Is it right before meals, after school, before bed? Is it when they have been cooped up in the house too long? Find way to meet the needs that make them act up beforehand (instill "quiet time" before bed, serve meals a little earlier or involve them in meal prep, etc).

Lastly, take a cue from supernanny and make a chart with rules (general things like "don't hit" "use nice words" "don't touch each other stuff" whatever is best for your family) and, after you've made the chart together talk about consequences and what they will be for each one. Children cooperate more when they are involved in the entire process.

Hi A.,

I have two girls, 6 and 4 years old. They fight and argue just like I did with my sisters too. Me and husband have been trying to give them both "personal time". They have the opportunity to request some private time with us "parents" and express their concerns and needs. That alone has improved the way they treat each other tremendously. Whenever they start an argument, fighting for toys, etc, we ask them to seat on the couch facing each other and telling (no screaming or yelling is allowed) what bothers them from the other. That way they have a chance to negotiate their differences. We ask them to come up with some solutions for the current issue. They have learned that these things can be resolved in a civil way and that they need to sopport each other, and see us all as a team, we need to pull together, not against each other. Hope this would somehow aliviate the boys fighting.
Regards
D.

get a piece of poster board and some markers and stickers. Make a chart listing things like small chores for mr 9-yr-old to do. Invent some simple little things for 3-yr too (pick up toys at a certain time, get a sticker). No hitting all day, get a sticker, like that. Kids do better when their time is not all free-time. This is a big age range. The older one is probably frustrated by the amount of attention a 3yr old needs. Plan for a 9 yr old friend to come over and play so that you can give 3 yr old more attention. Rember, if you are a yeller, they will yell too and you don't want that.

I use a behavior chart. On the behavior chart I have things like "kind heart", "gentle hands", "good behavior", and "listening ears". Those four behaviors capture everything from namecalling to hitting to following directions. On my older child's chart I also have chores listed. At the end of each day, we review their behavior and they earn stars. Based on how many stars they receive daily and weekly, they earn TV/gaming time, rewards from my "treasure box", extra activities , and super activites for perfect weeks. It sounds complex, but it's actually very simple and my kids are motivated to work toward what they really want. In your case, you could also add a behavior to your chart about staying in bed.

In the beginning, very few stars were earned. As soon as a behavior is inappropriate, I communicate that I'm taking the star away. I started this when my son was 3 years old (the hardest age by far) and he is now 6. When I started the "star chart" with him we did it twice a day for about a month. This allowed him to change his behavior mid-day without the whole day being lost from a temper-tantrum at breakfast. Regardless, you can tailor it in whatever fashion works for you.

I also use the time-out technique. In fact, when a child goes in time-out it's at that time the star is usually taken away. I have a specific location my children go and I'm firm about 1 minute time-out for each year of age. It works for me. I have also found that if I keep calm and cool that I have more power over my child, but when I lose control that's when my child has more power over me and things get worse. There have been times when I have told my son, "I am so angry right now that I want to hit you, but hitting is not okay so I must walk away to cool down." This helps him understand anger is okay, but how you respond to it is most important. This same philosophy works on my 6-year-old's behavior toward my 3-year-old. When my 3-year-old does something to annoy my 6-year-old I tell my older child that if he responds to my younger child by hitting or something else that he has lost the power. He hates his sibling have power over him and has learned that he maintains the power if he walks away or ignores the behavior.

I think the fact that your younger child is 3-years-old is a huge factor in this. 3 is the hardest age and your 9-year-old probably doesn't know how to handle it. Heck, we parents don't know how to handle it. Just look at the number of messages about handling 3-year-olds on this website. But, the foundation you set now will affect what happens when your children are teenagers. Hang in there.

By the way, I'm willing to email you a copy of my star charts if you're interested. Just send me your email address to me and I'll get them to you. Good luck!

Hi A.
My name is M. and I am a new memember too! I see you have your hands full and give you a lot of credit. One advise I can give you as a mother of 2 (7yr old daughter and 1yr old son), you should have them on a schedule. I had the same problem with my daughter , going to bed on time, cleaning her room, doing her homework, cleaning after herself, etc.. It was such a battle, so I finally decided to make a task chart for her where we listed all her responsibilities and together before going to bed we checked tasks off and if all where done she would recieve a sticker. If she recieved a sticker each day for the week at the end of the month she would get a suprise, it really works). If she has not followed through she gets something taken away from her that she truely loves and cares for. Also in the meantime she get no toys or gifts that way this will be a treat! I hope this works for you. Good Luck

My sons did the same thing. Asking nicely didn't work, yelling didn't work, my husband didn't work! <wink> What I did discover was taking them away from each other. They couldn't play together; they had to sit in their rooms. No contact, period. If anyone so much as put a finger outside their door, priveleges were lost (tv, gameboy, play dates, etc.) After a bit, they caught on and they learned to solve problems, without injury, by themselves.

As for patience on the long term, would it be possible for you to build 20-30 minutes (less?) into your schedule where your boys are in their rooms quietly doing something (same loss of priveleges if they come out), so you have some down time? You can call it a mommy time out. I found that works for me and my boys.

Good luck!

I suggest watching the tv show supper nanny she has some great ideads on how to get kids to get along, big age difference in your kids, maybe they are fighting to grab your attention. And they way they get you to pay attention to you is to fight with each other, your 9 yr old shold no better, he is trying to get your attention, maybe a sport would help him to have something of his own, no body keeps a clean house when you are a single mom, and two kids one small one older.
Sounds like the 9 yr old needs to draw his attention to something else of his own if he acts up then no soccor.

Good Luck

A.,
I had three thoughts come to me while reading your post and a few of the responses. Since every kid and every family is different, I'll share them all.
1) I read an article a few years ago that helped me with sibling issues. The writer talked about "parenting for outcome." She realized she had been separating them, when what she wanted wa for them to be friends someday. So they instituted "lessons in cooperation." It could be more of a challenge with their relative ages, but here's how it works. If they get to fighting, you assign them a task that they must complete together--without arguing. It could be sweeping the kitchen floor or weeding a small patch of garden. If they argue or don't finish, they get another task.
2) Many child development experts recognize that children go through a big developmental change around nine years old. You can read about the Montessori or Waldorf/Steiner educational philosophies for more information. Understanding your older son's changing worldview will go a long way in helping you deal with the situation.
3) I heard an interesting episode of "This American Life" on NPR (actually a downloaded podcast) about a girl with a younger sister who bugged her to death. The mom decided to enlist her participation in an "experiment." Their ages were 12 and 5, but you could likely adapt it. They wanted to see if giving her sister an hour of attention after school (talking about her day, playing games, drawing pictures) would decrease the amount of begging for attention. To get her daughter to sign on to this plan for a month, she paid her. It had success, but the mother and older daughter disagreed on how much. If you want to listen to the whole episode, it's #303, called "David and Goliath."
Best of luck to you. It will get better.

Oh I'm so glad I found this. I have really felt so incontrol with my children now that I have learned about Love & logic THey have classes at COC once or twice a year. You could also go to love&logic.com and call them they give free advice and they have cd's and videos that give you one liners like.
YOU'RE ACTIONS ARE SHOWING ME... YOU DON'T WANT TO WATCH TV etc. or Do you want to clean that up now or in 5 minutes or I will talk to you when you voice is as calm as mine..... There are more and these are lots of fun to do. Good luck. MR

I agree about tuning in to SuperNanny ;-) She has a lot of expertise.

I definately am not surprised to hear this .. you need to be supervising and playing with your 3 year old NOT leaving him to be dealt with by the 9 year old brother. Sorry.
In an ideal world they could play together but truly - their needs are completely different at this point in time and you are lucky if this works most days for more than a few minutes.

Are you trying to get work done? This is not going to be very possible with the 3 year old in the house unless he is asleep, eating, or they are watching TV or being involved with someone else.

Are you trying to get household chores done? THESE they can help you with! The 3 year old especially will benefit form this even though t takes longer, do it as a game with him while the older boy watches programs not suitable for the 3 year old or does his homework.

Try to do things as a group to show the 9 year old how you want the younger one reprimanded etc and tell him this is what to say or do. Managing a pre schooler can be alot and he needs strategies that work just as you do!

Finally, forget about 'Boys will be boys.' You have 2 kids that need your attention and your interest, your instruction, energy and peaceful mothering. I am sure you do great when you are there - just accept that you cannot leave them together to their own devices just yet!

I am the proud mama of a 3 year old boy, Ian, and while he is my only child, my nephew Michael, who is 7, is a big part of our life. What I have noticed is, my nephew, who loves my son, can become very frustrated with him. Mikey is very protective of any outside threats of harm that may happen to Ian, but he can be rough with Ian when he is frustrated by him.
Because your older son is 9, he should understand that his younger brother can be a pain, but, because he is so much younger, he may not understand that he's doing it. The most important part, that I have emphasized is that Mikey has to remember that Ian is much younger and smaller than he is, and he needs to be gentler with him, because Ian gets hurt easier than he does.
I do not doubt that your boys love each other, but because the age & size difference is so great, they may need a "time out" from each other before their disagreements get physical.

Hi A. -

I'm sure it must be a very hard situation that you're in. 3 year olds are just bursting with energy and not really understanding much of what's going on around them or how they affect others. And a 9 year old doesn't really have the maturity to control himself either.
Even rougher to be feeling sick while the kids, much as you love them, are creating chaos.

I have two suggestions. One is to check out this organization:
http://www.nonviolentparenting.org/ruth.html It's here in LA and they offer classes and counselling. Maybe just a click on this link their website to see what their about will be all you need to restore your feelings of patience. I'm not in any way suggesting that I think you may be resorting to violence. They teach about how to communicate without yelling. When my daughter was in preschool, we had the founder of the organization come and give a talk at a meeting and education night for the parents. She was just wonderful and I got so much out of what she had to say. It really helped me, an older parent who at the time was grieving my father's death and was quite short tempered at times.

My other suggestion is to talk to your kids, explaining things, such as why they need to behave. They may get bored and look at you like you're nuts, but some of it will get through, and you'll find yourself calming down in the process. You don't say in what way you haven't been feeling well lately, but if you've been noticably different, they may be anxious about it and their behavior could reflect that. Some explanation of what's going on with you and some reassurance may help as well.

I hope you feel better soon, and I really hope my suggestions help. I wish you all the best,
Colleen

Dearest A.,
Drastic means calls for drastic measures. I'm a stay at home mom with two beautiful girls, 7 and 3. Talk about drama!!! And just like your boys, they're having some trouble getting along. Disciplining them both is they key. Trust me. I have found that grounding the oldest for at least a day or so depending on what the issue is, works. My 3 yr old gets time outs and things taken away from her. My 3yr old tends to hit the oldest. My 7 yr old nows that hitting her sister will only gets her more in trouble. When my youngest hits her sister I make them face each other and have them talk to each other and tell each other what the problem is. I tend to be their mediator. This teaches them to talk to each other and work things out. It tough in the beginning, but it seems to be working. It's an ongoing process. They're still working on it. Now the Grouding part. Well I think children at my daughters age now and understand the difference between right and wrong behavior. So my husband and I talk to her about what she did wrong and have her explain it to us of why she behaved the way she did. Then we ground her. Once she and her friends at school hit another boy and I got a call from the principals office. I was very upset. Very upset. So when she got home I immediately sent her to her room and talked to her when and only when I had calmed down. Made her clean her room to keep her busy and took her radio away and her favorite doll and accesories. She threw a big tantrum, but I told her that she didn't deserve them and shut the door. After talking to her about her actions and behavior, we grounded her for a whole week plus she couldn't play with her friends that were also involed in hitting the other boy. It was the longest week of my life, I can only imagine hers. Having your kids understand that their behavior is not acceptable is key. Like I said, drastic means calls for drastic measures.
Good luck.
E.M.

Hi,
Wow, your children sound like mine! I'm a single mother of two children 9 and 4 (boy and girl) and they do the same things. I think mine get up at bedtime at least 12 times, though! What I try to do, which isn't easy, is to remain cool. In the middle of their "typical 9 and 4 yr old behavior", I engage them in a little conversation. I try to focus on saying something that lets them feel like they're helping me like, "Thank you guys so much for listening and going to bed (or cleaning up, getting along etc.), so mommy can study (cook,clean, etc.), or I say " Let's see who can get in the bed and go to sleep first." This usually changes their hyper moods and they tend to listen especially when they feel like they're doing something to help me. I notice that when I yell, it just adds to the commotion and nothing changes. If you consistanty stay calm, they'll become calm (which is not so easy for a single mom of two!), but it gets them on a different page. These don't ALWAYS work, but you have to keep at it. They work work for me more times than they don't.
Good luck!
A.

Hi Mama- I have 3 children 9,7,and 5 and I often have a ref. role myself, just remember that syblings learn conflict resolution from there interaction with each other- so keep in mind the way you would like them to solve problems and help them forward with those skills and focus less on actualy solving thier problems (they'll figure that out)-
The best advice my Mama gives me is keep a sence of humor, espectialy when they are really on your' nerves-
Bless

My brother has two boys that are four years apart and one of the things he once told me while he was dealing with the two of them fighting was this, "This is the only area where I treat them a little differentlyfrom each other because they are not the same age and my older son should not act like a three year old." He explains to the older son in a stern but calm voice that he is a role model for his little brother and if he doesn't want his little brother to break his things or fight with him or bother him when he is watching a movie on tv, then he has to teach him those behaviors by acting better himself. Whenever the younger child behaved badly, my brother would point out when the older brother did the same thing and show him how he "Taught" his little brother this behavior. He would still take the little brother aside and "deal" with the bad behavior with a punishment but he was always sure to show the older brother the results of not being a good role model. It took about 6 months but now the older brother is always looking out not just for his little brother but for all the other little kids at his school too. It was hard my brother said, but it made sence to me. As for your stress level. Maybe you can give yourself a time out and lock yourself in a room for five minutes ...lol....sometimes it's easier to remove ourselves than to deal with the kids...lol. Good luck-my heart is with you!
-Share

Sorry I have no idea how to keep your cool. I need to work on that one myself. My daugthers are about the same ages 8&2. They don't fight all that much but I'm sure it could be coming. One thing I have done with them though is that I try to find ways for them to bond, other than playing with each other. I have my 8 yr old help the 2 yr old use the potty when she can. My 8 yr old reads bedtime stories to the 2 yr old. They set the table together. And when we are at the store the 8 yr old holds my 2 yr olds hand. They still get on each others nerves but now my 8 yr old has learned to just include her sister and everyone is happy.

There's a wonderful resource called "Parenting with Love and Logic" written by Jim Fay and Foster Cline. I wish I had had it when my kids were little. I have friends who have been following the principles with excellent success and we are using it at my school. They have books for teachers, parents of teens, young children, etc. They also have CDs, DVDs,and workshops. It's good stuff. I am also a single mom of two boys 12 and 13. It's not easy!

A.

I also have 2 boys 12 and 10 and let me tell you, they fight all the time. I have had bloody noses you name it. Eventually I think they will grow out of it. My husband has 2 younger brothers and he said with time it stops. Dont get in the middle of their fights. You end up getting hit. Tell them to stop and if they dont, say "well i guess you will learn that this hurts" I have tried the talking and personal time and it doesnt work. JUst let them work through it. I do have to say as they have gotten older each year, it has gotten a little better. I think they know how far they can push each other before the other breaks and they dont want to get hit. Alot of it is just learning how to give each other their own space.

Why not watch the "Super Nanny" TV show for good ideas? I suggest when they fight (because you don't always see who starts it), BOTH lose a privilege or chore money. They need to know upfront that BOTH will lose something.

Both need to understand that when you tell them something and they are not listening, you will count to Three and if they haven't complied by then, they will lose something.

It would be good to have a board where they earn weekly allowance money for chores; however, a certain amount is taken away daily for unacceptable behavior or chores not completed. Kids HATE to see themselves losing money on paper!

Hope this helps. You have to be CONSISTENT or nothing will ever work. And I mean EVERY TIME someone misbehaves you have to do something. It is hard at first, but becomes quite easy as they adjust to the "rules".

One of the turning points for me and patience was learning to not take their 'bad behavior' personally. Then it is just me correcting behavior that isn't healthy for our family and not me bringing down the retributive strike on them because they have (fill in the blank) for the hundredth time and I am going crazy.
Also, please do not fall into the trap of 'boys will be boys' because that just isn't true. Yes some people (lots of them boys) have a lot of energy and don't have the skills (yet) to channel that in a loving life affirming way. That is what parenting helps in, and boy parenting sometimes takes a lot of effort. It is worth the effort. I read a great deal of wonderful responses to how to do this for your family.

Remember to take time for yourself so you don't resent your kids, start taking their 'mis-behavior' personally and then getting into a playground shouting match with them. That will really wear you out. -and remember hat just as you love them... they REALLY love you too.

E. mom of Kaia (7) and Sarah (2) who are currently sent to their room to play nicely together ;) and now... they are!

What you thought to be an advantage,is becoming a disadvantage. You probably thought it would be great for your Nine year old to have a sybling,and you most likely thought,that your three year old would be entertained by your oldest.Whats happening, is your nine year old is taking out his frustrations on your three year old.Its not really him hes agitated at. Its you.There is to much distance between the two, to expect them to be playmates. Your nine year old is far more mature,and needs to be interacting with kids his own age. You sound like a busy mother, and I realize,that its easier for you to get things done, when your oldest keeps the three year old occupied, but you need to give your oldest some space of his own.I don't mean to sound so direct,or critical,but this is what I suspect is happening.Believe me,there are plenty out there that don't think about these things,when it comes to family planning. Think of it this way...If they stuck your nine year old,in a class of pre-schoolers,everyday...where would he be intellectually? He would regress. The reason being,that he would try to fit in with his peer group.He would begin acting less mature,than his age.There is nothing wrong,with the two of them spending (some) quality time together,but Your nine year old, needs free time to go interact with his friends. Go play sports,or be given time alone to be creative,or just listen to music.It sounds like the two share a room. I understand,if you haven't the space,to separate them,but I'm sure,after spending the entire afternoon with his brother,he dreads sleeping in the same quarters as well.I bet the nine year old has to go to bed at the same time as the 3 year old.Thats making him feel like a baby as well.If your going to give him responsibility,because hes the eldest brother,then you must (also give him certain privlages for being the eldest.He should have a different bed time,even if its merely an hour.Don't permit the boys to get you to the point of losing it.Kids hear a whisper,alot better than yelling.Don't make the mistake,of hurting them,because,that will be regreted,by you and stay with them forever. I hope ,that you don't look at this advice,as being critical of you. I wanted to be direct and to the point. Only you know, if any of this hits a note. You ultimately decide,if any advice you recieve here would be of help to you.Good luck to you A..